So, until people somehow learn how to police every person on the Internet that shares their concern over something, no one can express their concern over something? I don't think that standard is reasonable in the least.

People aren't talking about this like "These people have a legitimate grievance but it stinks some people are being jerks about it." People are mocking the very idea of others being concerned about this and suggesting that they should be quiet unless they can be angry in the way some people approve of.

When someone says something like, "This is dumb and everyone concerned about it are just being politically correct," I should be able to explain why it's not just dumb and why it's normal for many people to bring this up. I can't take responsibility for every single person on the Internet; you yourself brought up the fact that people often get out of hand with Twitter and blogs nowadays. While I may note my disagreement with how some people respond, I can primarily just defend the people affected by this and stand for my own point in the best way I can.

Some in this thread have said it's dumb or ridiculous, and it makes sense that people might if that's how they feel. Yet, none of them have condemned those harassing or mocking those expressing legitimate concerns about this. How dare they, right? Of course not. They aren't keeping quiet on this just because some people who agree with them might be acting out of line somewhere on the Internet. Those concerned about this shouldn't have to keep quiet either. If people were interested in making a large and sustainable movement, it would make sense to try to organize and solidify unified messages and strategies. But when it's just random folks online expressing concern about something small like this, that would make no sense and be nearly impossible, especially in such a short time. People rarely speak as monoliths.

I say, you can sit there and say this is ridiculous, and I can sit here and explain why I believe it is not ridiculous and actually has merit. You said:

The worst part about these situations is that there is usually a valid point/conversation to be had at its core, but the Internet is completely oblivious to the concept of reacting in a measured and reasonable way, so whatever argument anyone might have had is quickly buried under asinine bullshit, and people like me who might have agreed are very quickly turned away.

And this has been me highlighting the valid point in a measured and reasonable way in the interest of fostering greater understanding. I won't be derailed to only talk about the misguided ways some people have responded to this or discouraged from saying anything until there is a solidified social movement for a small change in a videogame, but I certainly acknowledge and feel how crappy it is that the Internet often brings out the worst in people regardless of whether they agree with a reasonable cause or not. As you said, it's far more frustrating for those who feel there is a legitimate issue here than those who don't care about it.

Personally, I think we can discuss this, and I'd encourage people to not stress so much about this and other topics like it. I'm pretty sure I've joked more in this thread than anyone else, because this shouldn't be a big deal. It's okay if people are concerned about something in a game, and while people on the Internet of all stripes seem to often drop the ball on how to express their concerns well, we can still try to talk about the concerns people have. It's why we're here on a forum, believing that we can talk to different people on things we may feel differently about.

As a silly shirt-ripping game, Akiba's Trip deserves at least a little more levity than what's in this thread so far. Come on, guys. The topic of slurs toward transgender individuals and whether a line should be removed or improved in a game is certainly serious, but if we can't maintain a bit of a sense of humor and friendliness with contentious topics, we're going to struggle to ever face them at all.

I just saw a gothic lolita tear off five guys' clothes with her mad martial arts and watch them run away with giant censoring sparkles over their bodies, and that's just silly and fun. I am of the opinion that the game could be even better without a hurtful line of dialogue, and I stand by that. I hope Xseed may eventually change it or keep people's concerns in mind for when they handle a similar instance in the future.

uh... what? You don't have to be rude, @hailinel. I've tried to talk about this despite knowing full well that most people here feel differently than I do and I might get some flack. I know you can relate to that feeling. If you have a problem, we can discuss it, as I am not your enemy. We're all duders here, and I'm replying to you because I believe you are worth the effort to talk to.

I wouldn't reply as I have if I didn't care about this and about having a discussion with you and others. We may disagree on this or other things, but we can still be friendly with one another. I'm interested in that if you are.

Yep, I think a lot of people forget that very point that the actions and opinions of characters in a story are not (probably) representative of the creators. I think that is where it begins and ends with me. If you want to portray something (bad or good) you should portray it like it is, warts and all.

Hopefully this will encourage other developers to stand up when they come under fire for similar flaming in the future. Gamers are actively looking for devs they can rally around right now.

edit: @truthtellah: "I hope Xseed may eventually change it or keep people's concerns in mind for when they handle a similar instance in the future."

I can respect that point of view, i'd personally rather know they are holding to the integrity of the translation. By choosing to accept the narrative offerings of a video game/book/movie, I have opened the possibility that elements of that material may be controversial. I have the option to make purchasing decisions in line with my sensibilities. I can respect that some people who haven't played the game may be upset at this, taken into the context of all of their fake twitter style conversations, it is appropriately used. Given the devs willingness to reply to almost every post on the marvelous message boards to address concerns I would say that Xseed has exceeded normal etiquette for addressing this issue.

@truthtellah: I have responded to your PM.

The word "trap" seems like a weird thing to focus on when the game is about beating up women until their clothes fall off.

No idea that was an offensive term. In anime the description trap is usually used to describe overly effeminate looking and acting men/boys. It's not usually used for transgender characters but then again I had no idea the word was considered offensive. There is a good chance that neither did the people who were translating it.

@scruggs: You're fighting and stripping men and women in the game.

I know several people who were involved in bringing this topic to XSEED's attention the week the game released. Originally, while the person running the XSEED Twitter was a little defensive (and understandably so), they ended the relatively calm discussion by saying they would consider this stuff more in the future. It seemed all was well until some people got wind of it, cried censorship and sparked the debate again not even a full day later. Worst of all, whoever was running the XSEED account that weekend (the same person I assume made that forum post) decided to use it as their own personal soapbox instead of responding professionally to more concerns regarding the lines (yes, LINES, not just one line) in the game. This escalated things and made the entire company look bad as a result. "It's satire, like South Park!" was a common defense from the XSEED account, which is a silly way of saying, "We can do what we want because we're claiming it's satire" instead of, I don't know, taking the concerns of loyal fans into consideration like they said they would. As you might expect, this pissed even more people off. Crazy, right?

In short, it's less about changing the lines and more about respecting the wishes of loyal fans who bought the game DAY ONE and wanted to express their concerns over a few lines they saw as offensive. They didn't approach XSEED with any malicious intent. It all began as a respectful discussion and everything seemed like it was going okay. Now, with the follow-up tweets and this forum post, it seems like "taking fans concerns into consideration" means jackshit. Sorry, loyal customers!

Also, one last thing, I guarantee if those lines were altered slightly, very few people would notice or care. They don't matter much in terms of the overall narrative of the game, simply optional conversations you can view at anytime. And no, the people who took issue with them couldn't just "ignore" it because they didn't know they were in the game to begin with. This wasn't really an issue until much after the game's release.

tl;dr - Whoever ran the XSEED account and made that forum post is kind of an asshat and made the entire company look bad as a result.

As someone who beat the game I feel the need to mention it's honestly mostly about stripping men. I'm willing to say at least 2/3rd's if not 3/4's if the people I stripped where men.

Hell, my inventory is proof. It's filled with guy clothes I took off men. The few women's clothes I have taken from women I can also wear which surely does something to prove that the game isn't -against- cross dressing.

It's still a really weird game and beating up people to take their clothes before they burn in the sun is probably something to be frowned up regardless of gender.

If it affects anything though, I can strip hats from people by sticking my thumbs in the side of their head like it's Fist of the North Star. So that's something.

Now depicting people being rude or awful to others is wrong unless you depict them being rude or awful in the ways that people are comfortable with them being rude or awful.

This is a game rated 15+.

Also, is the protagonist a white male? They shouldn't have white men as protagonists.

Something offending someone doesn't mean it is automatically the best thing to be in a game and never a mistake. A developer should be able to be convinced to change something without people acting like it's the end of the world.

You would've been a doll during the P.M.R.C. hearings. Actually, considering how the MPAA uses their regulatory powers to specifically target gay and lesbian sexual scenes and restrict them to the ghetto of AO, I'd be interested to know if you think all offense should be given equal standing.

xseed using the term trap seems more like a bad decision than something meant to actively harm individuals. xseed does have some responsibility here cause they could have replaced that incidental bit of text with anything else like "poopyhead" or something. By using trap while staying away from most other slurs (I haven't played the game so they could be throwing out homophobic and racist terms out the wazoo for all I know) it makes it seem acceptable. It's an oddly specific slur to throw out there when a general insult would've been fine.

Also if you see trap as a not offensive term then I don't think you know what it really means.

That's not how it was marketed so I can see the confusion. I thought the game was disgusting until I saw the quick look.

I am routinely offended when people want to classify any form of sexuality or content that is sexually titillating for one group or another as 'disgusting'. People want to say 50 Shades of Grey is 'disgusting', they want to say Project Diva is 'disgusting'. You're an adult, stop being disgusted by other people's cheap thrills.

I mean, I'm going to the moderators to make sure you never get to say that word ever again never ever ever.

It had more to do with beating people up and ripping their clothes off like a sexual assault simulator that the game ended up not being and I made that judgement a little too fast off of one trailer and its one sentence description. 50 shades is about consensual sex. Project Diva seems to actively try and dissuade people from looking at Miku sexually so I don't think it is even the same thing.

I see. It goes like this;

"I have a sexual fantasy of being utterly dominated and put into a situation where almost all autonomy has been stripped from me" - this is okay

"I have a sexual fantasy of utterly dominating someone and having them in a situation where they've given me complete autonomy over them" - YOU'RE DISGUSTING

"I have a sexual fantasy of having my clothes torn off in a public place" - this is okay

"I have a sexual fantasy of tearing people's clothes off in a public place" - YOU'RE DISGUSTING

I bet you this sexual assault simulator would be viewed under a far more positive light if the main character was female gendered. Of course, the most important part of this, if someone has a fantasy about something that our culture doesn't consider 'normal sexuality', then it proves that they have evil intentions and are disgusting. Especially if they're being public about it.

@brodehouse: How about this.

"I have a sexual fantasy of being utterly dominated and put into a situation where almost all autonomy has been stripped from me" - this is okay

Yeah that's fine.

"I have a sexual fantasy of utterly dominating someone and having them in a situation where they've given me complete autonomy over them" - YOU'RE DISGUSTING

Actually that's ok too because THEY GAVE THEIR CONSENT!

"I have a sexual fantasy of having my clothes torn off in a public place" - this is okay

Remove the public part and it'd be completely fine. Do it in public and you get into the muddy waters of public indecency where other people will be exposed to something that may or may not want to see it.

"I have a sexual fantasy of tearing people's clothes off in a public place" - YOU'RE DISGUSTING

Go back to that public indecency and you have problems there but if you get consent from the ones you're tearing the clothes off of then that's fine. CONSENT IS IMPORTANT! IT IS ASSAULT AND WRONG OTHERWISE!

If you're being public about wanting to rape people or molest children then I'd call you a disgusting individual unless you're asking for help. Beyond that everything is a gray area though. You have me rethinking my assumptions on why I thought it was disgusting. Because either way I'd advocate for it's right to exist because the characters are polygons. No one is actively being harmed either though it may perpetuate the acceptability of such acts. It also has the possibility of giving individuals that would go out to do heinous crimes like that an outlet so it may reduce such incidents. So you've given me a lot to think about.

Edit: Also I don't think that's what this game is.

Just pointing out, the protagonist is supposed to be Japanese, not white.

There are far worse things to be upset about than a game that parodies internet message boards by putting an internet message board in the game. Perhaps it's not well-written (hardly unbelievable, considering the atrocious writing seen in the Quick Look), but that doesn't make it guilty of trying to offend other people.

I wonder how many of the people complaining have watched and enjoyed Pulp Fiction or Reservoir Dogs.

Wow. This thread took a helluva turn.

@madman356647: Sorry. Didn't expect it to.

People have way too much free time if THIS create a shit storm. If half of these people have been working on a work project 12 hours a day for the last week, none of this would happen. Cause they would be way too grateful to have the time to sit down and actually enjoy something than to see one word and go on twitter to bitch at some one who translate it. I have been called a zipper head to my face by actual racist asshole and I did not get as emotional as some of these people. The internet is the worst.

Here's the thing about rape fantasies; They are not fantasies about rape roleplay. They are fantasies about rape or elements of rape. A rape fantasy is not someone fantasizing about having a consensual sexual relationship featuring rape roleplay; that's merely the best and consensual way of living out a fantasy. People engage in rape roleplay, but they're inspired by rape fantasy.

Remove the public part and it'd be completely fine. Do it in public and you get into the muddy waters of public indecency where other people will be exposed to something that may or may not want to see it.

And here's the rub. People who fantasize about public disrobing, either as subject or object, can't do this stuff to people they don't know for all the reasons you stated, so they cannot engage their fantasies in the same way as the aforementioned folk. For these people, the best and consensual way of living out their fantasies might be through media; watching movies, reading stories, playing video games (as the aforementioned folk also do). However, we're ready to call them disgusting for doing any of this, because we disapprove of the fictional content that occurs. Which would be much like watching a rape-y porn (featuring actors and actresses doing their jobs) and concurring that if the fiction doesn't make it clear that the events on-screen are consensual rape roleplay, then it's ASSAULT AND WRONG.

Do you get me?

If you're being public about wanting to rape people or molest children then I'd call you a disgusting individual unless you're asking for help.

This jumps all the way from titillation regarding the power difference involved in rape fantasy to this is the same asfantasizing about children. That line of argument has been used for years to paint people engaging in uncommon sexuality with a broad brush where child rape is always around the corner.

Beyond that everything is a gray area though. You have me rethinking my assumptions on why I thought it was disgusting. Because either way I'd advocate for it's right to exist because the characters are polygons. No one is actively being harmed either though it may perpetuate the acceptability of such acts. It also has the possibility of giving individuals that would go out to do heinous crimes like that an outlet so it may reduce such incidents. So you've given me a lot to think about.

I'm... well. That's actually what I was going for.

I'm not someone who fantasizes about tearing people's clothes off in public places, but I realize these people exist. I can double understand it happening in Japan, a very urban place with a lot of etiquette norms with their own taboos regarding personal space. I'm sure all these people know full well that ripping people's clothes off would be wrong to do, but I'm completely okay with them creating media that lets them titillate themselves or others. Right now in the West, we're addicted to some kind of social darwinism where we scrub our media for anything that might make people commit actual crimes. We engage heavily in censorship on the grounds of 'normalization'. We appear to believe that showing people shooting each other will normalize gun violence, showing people performing some thing that would be negative in the real world causes people to do those things in the real world. I have always disagreed with that line of thinking, from the time back when it was used against media we consider perfectly normal in 2014. I will continue disagreeing with that line of thinking today, and protect media I hope we'll consider perfectly normal in 2039.

edit: Thanks for being reasonable and discussing this instead of trying to draw lines between GOOD PEOPLE and everyone else. Thanks for not being a Twitter.

@sethphotopoulos It's not really your fault (or even necessarily a bad thing). This is tied up in a lot of complicated issues that won't be resolved by how this matter gets concluded, among them transgender representation in video games, translation methodology and its impact on authorial intent, and the clash of differing cultural norms and sensitivities, all of which people have very strong opinions on.

Yep, gonna side with XSEED on this and I'm glad they didn't cave in. It's based off of the "It's a Trap!" meme and not meant to be transphobic like some people want to make it out to be. I guess if you don't read much manga or watch much anime, where the term is prevalent and marketed as a fetish, it could be offensive, but then you're probably not the target audience in the first place. FYI, a reverse trap is when a girl looks convincingly like a guy. Also, despite what XSEED's statement says, traps aren't always trying to deceive others and can just naturally look cute to the same hetero sex, usually exaggerated for comedic effect.(Ie. Hideyoshi Kinoshita) Replacing it with another term just wouldn't be right in context.

I was going to use the 'smoke a fag' example, but I see the statement already used something similar. Well, I guess I'm done here. Feel free to continue the arguing.