@Apathylad: Funky Student is a pretty gross black stereotype, though. Just one from the late '80s.

@FateOfNever said:

Japanese idol is a stereotype directly related to the Japanese, however. Just as Funky Student's stereotype could be directly related to African Americans in the 80's (as you say.) So is it not a racial stereotype then?

And I'm pretty sure there's such a thing as white stereotype. If not, then there would be such a thing as regional/country stereotype (such as 'fat stupid rude white american.') that directly relate to whites. I think to say there's no such thing as a white stereotype seems silly and may actually be somewhat racist. It's like saying there's no racism against white people in the entire world. I'm not saying it's predominant by any means, but to say it doesn't exist 'at all' is just silly.

There's also question about if Funky Student is even black. So are you then racist for presuming that he's black based on his character and his slightly darker skin tone despite the fact that the Japanese can have darker skin than many of the other characters in the game and that his stereotype could be applied to more sub culture than to a skin color?

"Japanese idol" is related to the culture of Japan and celebrity as a whole, not the Japanese race. Characters that make fun of, say, Kim Kardashian are written to mock the vapid socialite nature of her constitution, not the fact that she's Armenian. I don't disagree with the fact that there's some white discrimination in the world, but bringing it up is sort of irrelevant what with the fact that Persona 4 takes place in Japan, a country with a 98.5% racially-Japanese demographic. And Funky Student is significantly darker than any other character in the game and exudes black stereotypes. There's nothing that works against the implication that he's black.

@mutha3 said:

@sissylion said:

@Apathylad: Funky Student is a pretty gross black stereotype, though. Just one from the late '80s.

Funky Student isn't black, though. He's asian. I can understand people being a little taken aback when they first see the character, but I think getting offended over him is a result of not being familiar with the original Japanese context.Basically, there's a popular trend amongst youth in Japan called "B-style"(http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2011/11/b-style-japanese-youth-reject-convention-in-the-pursuit-of-blackness/) . Funky Student is pretty much one of those kids. Late in the game, you can hear Funky mulling over changing the way he presents himself in order to get a job through some incidental dialogue.

So.. wait.. does that make all Japanese B-style youths racists? I can't tell anymore! I think I'm just supposed to assume everything everyone does is racist or sexist or purposefully offensive to some group of people, right?

@mutha3: Well, that's weird. I can't say I agree with the cultural movement, but if he's meant to represent it, I rescind my statements.

@mutha3: Well, that's weird. I can't say I agree with the cultural movement, but if he's meant to represent it, I rescind my statements.

@sissylion said:

Also, there's no such thing as a "white stereotype."

Hey, that is completely untrue. I've seen old episodes of Astro Boy, so I know that all white Americans constantly eat hamburgers and drink soda and have hearts of pure darkness.

@FateOfNever:

The problem I have with the whole "isn't it realistic" argument with these things is that, while I do think it is logical and I totally see where you are coming from, I always think that the people making the game (if it was due to realism that they do something such as only having a single black student) should ask themselves "is this realism worth more than the implied racism and the chance that it could make people feel insulted or insecure?" I just don't see how someone who honestly thought about that could confidently answer "yes, it is more important to have only one dark-skinned student in the game so that it seems more relatable to Japanese students than it is to simply have two dark-skinned characters in the game". They didn't need to have 5 or more people appear; simply giving the character a sibling who acts differently would negate any racist implications.

I don't think the developers asked that question. I don't think they thought about it at all. And I definitely don't think their intent was in any way hurtful. But it doesn't change the fact that it is a misguided decision, and that simple ignorance or lacking the intent to offend doesn't make it ok to make decisions which offend others that could so easily have been avoided.

And whether something is a current thought of stereotype doesn't stop something being offensive. For instance, if I saw a show with one white character on the show that happened to like eating gummy bears and was obsessed by it; then I would probably be quite disappointed and annoyed at it. Even though it isn't a common or even recognisable stereotype - it still implies that the person’s skin tone defines their actions and/or that the race is only good as a token character.

I really like the Persona series, and 4 especially does some fantastic things for gender equality and talks about topics that most other games don't have the maturity to even seriously mention. I know this wasn't meant to be harmful, but it is still quite a naive thing to do. Just on some level, due to the maturity that they mention other topics, it is even more disappointing when they make such simple and hurtful miss-steps.

@sissylion said:

@FateOfNever said:

Japanese idol is a stereotype directly related to the Japanese, however. Just as Funky Student's stereotype could be directly related to African Americans in the 80's (as you say.) So is it not a racial stereotype then?

And I'm pretty sure there's such a thing as white stereotype. If not, then there would be such a thing as regional/country stereotype (such as 'fat stupid rude white american.') that directly relate to whites. I think to say there's no such thing as a white stereotype seems silly and may actually be somewhat racist. It's like saying there's no racism against white people in the entire world. I'm not saying it's predominant by any means, but to say it doesn't exist 'at all' is just silly.

There's also question about if Funky Student is even black. So are you then racist for presuming that he's black based on his character and his slightly darker skin tone despite the fact that the Japanese can have darker skin than many of the other characters in the game and that his stereotype could be applied to more sub culture than to a skin color?

"Japanese idol" is related to the culture of Japan and celebrity as a whole, not the Japanese race. Characters that make fun of, say, Kim Kardashian are written to mock the vapid socialite nature of her constitution, not the fact that she's Armenian. I don't disagree with the fact that there's some white discrimination in the world, but bringing it up is sort of irrelevant what with the fact that Persona 4 takes place in Japan, a country with a 98.5% racially-Japanese demographic. And Funky Student is significantly darker than any other character in the game and exudes black stereotypes. There's nothing that works against the implication that he's black.

Except that a Japanese idol is considerably different than what an idol is in most other parts of the world because of the Japanese culture, and if the culture and the race are completely separate in terms of stereotyping, then Funky Student is a culture stereotype and not a racial stereotype, right? If all you're trying to say is the only thing that makes a stereotype racist is if it's taken out of its nationality/country, then I sort of get that. But as far as Funky Student is concerned, well, mutha3 pretty much covered that one I think.

@sissylion said:

@StarvingGamer said:

What the fuck? Fuck.

No, but seriously, this entire fucking thing falls apart if you stop to think about it for half a microsecond and realize that Naoto is not transgendered.

FUCK THIS FUCK IN THE FUCK!

How is pretending to be a gender different from your own not transgender behavior? Surgery isn't the only road to Mecca.

Cross-dressing != Transgender

@mutha3: Yeah, they should have probably done a better job clearing that up. As a guy who watched the ER there was a lot of cultural divide for me, and I can explain not wanting to go out of the way to completely explain everything, but maybe that one shouldn't have been glossed over.

The way I see Naoto's story is that it's about a person struggling to grow up. Now this might be because Naoto from Persona 4 reminds me of Naota from FLCL. Both attempt to seem grown up an mature without understanding what that really means. Naoto always seemed like someone who wanted to play a detective when she was a kid, she'd read science fiction novels, Batman, and Sherlock Holmes one day wishing to be a great detective. She wanted to to appear more mature and be accepted, the way she did that was to act like a man. To me that seems like the way a child would handle it, it's like when a kid wants to sit at the grown up table; the maturity seems so fake.

Look at Naoto in the pictures for the PersonaXDetetive novel (I haven't read it and know little about it). You can tell from the pictures she both literally and metaphorically let her hair down, she can be confident and still be a woman, the whole "I'm a MAN" charade doesn't need to continue.

@sissylion: Isn't funky student just a japanese guy with a fro? None of his other physical features seem black. Plenty of non-black people can have fros, Just look at Bob Ross.

@Dixavd said:

And whether something is a current thought of stereotype doesn't stop something being offensive. For instance, if I saw a show with one white character on the show that happened to like eating gummy bears and was obsessed by it; then I would probably be quite disappointed and annoyed at it. Even though it isn't a common or even recognisable stereotype - it still implies that the person’s skin tone defines their actions and/or that the race is only good as a token character.

If that would seriously bother you then you need to relax, you're seeing racism everywhere.

I really don't understand the need to be politically correct all the time... in a truly free society bigotry needs to be accepted

Wait, can someone just make me a list of things we aren't boycotting?

@Dixavd: I think I understand and get where you're coming from. I don't know that I entirely agree though. I mean, as I said, I look at Funky Student and I don't really see much about him that is, racially, stereotypical. His hair, maybe? He does have that afro going on. But his way of talking wasn't ever something I considered to be a racial stereotype (but, again, maybe I just haven't been exposed to enough people presenting/making fun of stereotypes to have thought that) and by the fact that he's presented as an incredibly intelligent student that is feeling lethargic during his senior year of high school just made me look at him as a character, not as 'a black character.' I don't feel there ever needed to be another black character at the school to balance his 'stereotype' out, because I don't know that his stereotype was ever, in fact, racially focused in the first place.

@StarvingGamer said:

@sissylion said:

@StarvingGamer said:

What the fuck? Fuck.

No, but seriously, this entire fucking thing falls apart if you stop to think about it for half a microsecond and realize that Naoto is not transgendered.

FUCK THIS FUCK IN THE FUCK!

How is pretending to be a gender different from your own not transgender behavior? Surgery isn't the only road to Mecca.

Cross-dressing != Transgender

No, but pretending to be a dude does make her transgender. She allows everyone to refer to her as male and even refers to herself as "the Detective Prince." She identifies as a male, and that makes her transgender.

@sissylion

She identifies as a male

@sissylion said:

@mutha3: Yeah, they should have probably done a better job clearing that up. As a guy who watched the ER there was a lot of cultural divide for me, and I can explain not wanting to go out of the way to completely explain everything, but maybe that one shouldn't have been glossed over.

In the Japanese version of Persona 4, "Funky Student" was called "Afro Student" and instead of talking like Ice-T as Jeff put it, he just used a lot of Japanese slang (sometimes slipping into a hick accent) as well as some English words. Japanese players would get the reference.

I wasn't offended by the handlings of neither Naoto nor Kanji's sides of the story (I thought they were very good), but I do agree that boycotting a company over either character's case is dumb as hell, especially when it's 4+ years after the game's release. -__-

This whole thread is retarded.

@Dixavd said:

@Hunter5024 said:

@Animasta said:

@GunslingerPanda said:

LOL

Blogger is just a butthurt fat chick.

technically she does have a point

True, but I think making her a shitty person really is enough justification to warrant how badly she is treated.

Yeah, definitely. The problems arise, however, when it can be seen as their body shape defining what type of character they are. It is perfectly reasonable to have a horrible character be overweight as long as there is another overweight character of on-par representation who isn't a horrible person. When they are seen as the only one of that body image (enough so that you can describe them to someone purely on that they are fat and others know which character you mean), to the point where it becomes a defining characteristic of them that it starts to become questionable if it is a good character to put in the game at all.

I don't know if there are any other overweight characters in the game (as I have never played Persona 4; hoping to at some point - in fact, it's fantastic representation of gender is one of the reasons the game interests me which is why I find this whole boycott to be quite odd) but if she is the only one then it is pretty legitimate complaint. However I would still have a problem if she was the only fat character and she was portrayed as nice (or the stereotypical "jolly giant" character) as it would still leave their weight as a defining characterisitc (even if it could be called a "good" stereotype).

I don't see the problem with having a bad fat girl even if it is the only overweight person in the game. One person doesn't make a pattern. If they had 3 or 4 and they were all assholes? Then I would be pretty pissed.

@itsVASH said:

I really don't understand the need to be politically correct all the time... in a truly free society bigotry needs to be accepted

It isn't politically correctness for the sake of it. You shouldn't need a reason to be compassionate and sensitive to issues that other people feel are important.

@mutha3: Yeah, it's pretty obvious during his introduction that the duality was supposed to be around the use of the word "queer." I can understand the localization team not wanting to include the word, but it made the whole thing sort of confusing.

@WarlordPayne said:

@Dixavd said:

And whether something is a current thought of stereotype doesn't stop something being offensive. For instance, if I saw a show with one white character on the show that happened to like eating gummy bears and was obsessed by it; then I would probably be quite disappointed and annoyed at it. Even though it isn't a common or even recognisable stereotype - it still implies that the person’s skin tone defines their actions and/or that the race is only good as a token character.

If that would seriously bother you then you need to relax, you're seeing racism everywhere.

So I am not allowed to be annoyed when someone makes such a stupid mistake that could easily be changed that stereotypes people? That figurative show would only have ti have another white person appear (even if it is just an extra who says nothing). They could completely negate all implications of racism by even mentioning a single person of that race which is the opposite personality. I get annoyed at blatant stupidity when it comes to important topics like this. And if a show were to do that then it would be incredibly ignorant of them to think it was ok simply because it wasn't an incedibly insulting or bad stereotype. It is what makes things like Resident Evil 5 so annoying. Nothing bad was menat, and yet all they had to do was have a non-enemy character appear who was black or a villain appear who was white. I'm not going to boycott either company or even bring it up on its own it if wasn't apart of similar discussion because there are so many more important issues relative to it which should be tackled (which is what makes this boycott so insane to me, as there are so many other references to things like these on others which are much more insulting and direct). But just because I wouldn't actively react to it doesn't mean it isn't/wouldn't be disappointing. The bigger issue that things like that bring up is how much creators of things don't ask questions about these things. The amount of apathy towards these issues nd ignorance is a much bigger problem than the direct stereotyping.

@mutha3: While the Japanese version doesn't come straight out and say Kanji is gay, the words they use are often used as substitutes (they're not seen as derogatory). We don't have words like that in English.

Wait what the fuck is he/she talking about Erica being put in a negative light?

Did they even play the game?

I'm honestly confused. Am I missing something, or are they just stupid?

@sissylion said:

@StarvingGamer said:

@sissylion said:

@StarvingGamer said:

What the fuck? Fuck.

No, but seriously, this entire fucking thing falls apart if you stop to think about it for half a microsecond and realize that Naoto is not transgendered.

FUCK THIS FUCK IN THE FUCK!

How is pretending to be a gender different from your own not transgender behavior? Surgery isn't the only road to Mecca.

Cross-dressing != Transgender

No, but pretending to be a dude does make her transgender. She allows everyone to refer to her as male and even refers to herself as "the Detective Prince." She identifies as a male, and that makes her transgender.

So if I disguise myself as a dog and really commit to the disguise does that make me trans-species?

@StarvingGamer: Stop being difficult. There's more than one way to change your gender.

@mutha3: The Japanese they used translates to "strange/weird/different" but it's highly specific. So Atlus USA decided to translate more literally in that case. It's weird how they handled Kanji in comparison to Jun. As they make sure the player knows Jun is gay and that he wants to have sex with Tatsuya.

Who fucking cares about some dorks tumblr? Tumblr is full of weenies protesting everything imaginable.

@Gahzoo said:

Wait what the fuck is he/she talking about Erica being put in a negative light?

Did they even play the game?

I'm honestly confused. Am I missing something, or are they just stupid?

I think the unfortunate truth is that people are missing the backstory here. The person who started and runs Boycott Atlus is a very disturbed individual. He frequently and intentionally fails to take his medication, which I think he finds "funny" and "cute". He alienates his friends, and constantly cherry picks stuff in order to create arguments with anyone who makes the mistake of speaking to him. He prides himself on being an asshole; he puts it right there in his Twitter bio, and it's not a joke. I am convinced that he started Boycott Atlus just to justify his need for confrontation. He is a hateful person.

@StarvingGamer said:

@sissylion said:

@StarvingGamer said:

@sissylion said:

@StarvingGamer said:

What the fuck? Fuck.

No, but seriously, this entire fucking thing falls apart if you stop to think about it for half a microsecond and realize that Naoto is not transgendered.

FUCK THIS FUCK IN THE FUCK!

How is pretending to be a gender different from your own not transgender behavior? Surgery isn't the only road to Mecca.

Cross-dressing != Transgender

No, but pretending to be a dude does make her transgender. She allows everyone to refer to her as male and even refers to herself as "the Detective Prince." She identifies as a male, and that makes her transgender.

So if I disguise myself as a dog and really commit to the disguise does that make me trans-species?

No, that makes you a Furry.

@sissylion She never calls herself "the Detective Prince." Naoto doesn't say anything about her gender.

@Hunter5024: I totally see how it being a single mention is definitely a very mild implication rather than a direct insulting stereotype (like you say a couple people fitting it would do) it still stands to reason that if a character can be identified easily and described solely by their physical appearance, then the writers have done a very bad job at writing a character and that they should go back to the drawing board and ask what about the character is appealing and how can they give them more substance. It isn't a massive issue, and no malice was intended by it. So I have never attacked them for it or tried to boycott them or brought it up on its own. I think writers should aspire to removing the ambiguousness of these sort of implications by actually showing diversity than simply making sure they aren't out-right racist. I think they should go an extra step to make sure that they aren't implying to fat people that they are jerks and shouldn't be allowed to be love interests. It isn't difficult to put in an extra minor character that negates the grey area they leave (such as putting in a fat shop assistant that happens to be nice in who has a single line in the entire game).

I digres though. It was never a big enough thing for me to actually not reccommend any of the Persona games to anyone or continuing to support Atlus's games. Just a minor thing that I hope they think about when they continue to make future games. (just like when I say something that someone construdes as a stereotype and they tell me, I try and not do it again or think about it when it could arise again - I don't see why it is a bad thing to tell someone that something could be taken as offensive. It isn't like they have to listen to the feedback).

@Dixavd: It didn't bother me because shes a trivial gag character, but you're definitely right. They should have a fat guy party member in the next Persona. The genre that bugs me the most about diversity is RPG's considering none of the excuses for using exclusively handsome white/asian people really work when you have a cast of 7 main characters.

@Bocam said:

@mutha3: The Japanese they used translates to "strange/weird/different" but it's highly specific. So Atlus USA decided to translate more literally in that case. It's weird how they handled Kanji in comparison to Jun. As they make sure the player knows Jun is gay and that he wants to have sex with Tatsuya.

Jun was sure he was gay. Kanji wasnt, and so they left it ambiguous.

@mutha3 said:

@Dixavd: What do you think about the B-style angle? Did you see Bocam's post?

I am not very sure what B-style is (currently looking it up a bit) but if it is relative to that then it should have definitely been explained further. And then even if it was then I don't see why showing another person who strongly tans themselves for other reasons would have been a bad thing to include (and that not doing so removes all the ambiguousness). i.e. There are people who tan themselves a lot here in the UK and a common stereotype is that they are dumb or a jerk or that they simply want to "fit in" with the whole partying scene. That hasn't stopped shows here though pointing out how some people don't tan for those reasons and instead do it because they find it enjoyable to go to tanning places, or that they enjoy doing it with friends, or that it is simply one minor part of their entire lives and doesn't define who they are (showing how one of these "party-types" was into lots of booze all the time and it rules their lives making them anti-social, while another student who did it was also focusing on her grades and only parties on Saturday's so it didn't affect her work).

In my point of view, following a scene doesn't define your every action and even two people who do/like the same things can actually be completely different people.

Either way though, whether is was the B-style thing or not; it was always such a minor issue for me that it doesn't affect my opinion of the Persona series or its developers. It is just one of those things that when someone brings it up and says how bad it is, I am willing to concede that it was a naive problem that it is there (even if the problem is just a translation one) but that it wasn't anything mallicious so I can't condone someone villainising the entire thing over it.

@sissylion: I'm not being difficult. I just find it incredibly insulting that people are trying to rally around the mistreatment of a transgendered character when that character isn't transgendered. Frankly, the way they're twisting her character to further their agenda and garner attention is disgusting. Naoto doesn't dress like a boy because deep down inside, she really wants to be a boy. She dresses like a boy because deep down inside, she really wants to be respected as a detective. I really hope you understand the difference.

If I didn't boycott Nintendo for the fact that their games take forever to drop in price then i'm not boycotting this or anything else.

I accept Naoto for who she is. If she chooses to be a woman, then that is fine, I won't make any judgement calls about her decision.

It's only tangentially related but since GLAAD came out against a movie featuring a transsexual villain I have to wonder if Divine could ever become a popular icon in today's society and if John Waters, the king of raunch and filth, would be embraced as a film director who is also gay. 

@Dixavd said:

@WarlordPayne said:

@Dixavd said:

And whether something is a current thought of stereotype doesn't stop something being offensive. For instance, if I saw a show with one white character on the show that happened to like eating gummy bears and was obsessed by it; then I would probably be quite disappointed and annoyed at it. Even though it isn't a common or even recognisable stereotype - it still implies that the person’s skin tone defines their actions and/or that the race is only good as a token character.

If that would seriously bother you then you need to relax, you're seeing racism everywhere.

So I am not allowed to be annoyed when someone makes such a stupid mistake that could easily be changed that stereotypes people? That figurative show would only have ti have another white person appear (even if it is just an extra who says nothing). They could completely negate all implications of racism by even mentioning a single person of that race which is the opposite personality. I get annoyed at blatant stupidity when it comes to important topics like this. And if a show were to do that then it would be incredibly ignorant of them to think it was ok simply because it wasn't an incedibly insulting or bad stereotype. It is what makes things like Resident Evil 5 so annoying. Nothing bad was menat, and yet all they had to do was have a non-enemy character appear who was black or a villain appear who was white. I'm not going to boycott either company or even bring it up on its own it if wasn't apart of similar discussion because there are so many more important issues relative to it which should be tackled (which is what makes this boycott so insane to me, as there are so many other references to things like these on others which are much more insulting and direct). But just because I wouldn't actively react to it doesn't mean it isn't/wouldn't be disappointing. The bigger issue that things like that bring up is how much creators of things don't ask questions about these things. The amount of apathy towards these issues nd ignorance is a much bigger problem than the direct stereotyping.

How is having one person of a particular race a mistake? Just because you apparently assume that every single thing that someone does is related to their race unless explicitly shown otherwise doesn't mean everyone does, or should.

@WarlordPayne:

I don't believe exactly what you are saying, you are misunderstanding me, but that is purely because you are trying to generalise my entire opinion into one line (which is fine, but it doesn't really do justice to the entire topic). Still, it is true that I believe what I am saying. Do you want me to individually point out into every single comment I ever make that these comments are only the words of me, myself and only me. Isn't it implied that way by simply having a username - that to say it differently, to say that everyone believes something, requires actually explicitly pointing out that is what is meant. Or do you want me to ask everyone on the planet if they agree or disagree with something before I comment on anything?

I am being over-the-top for sarcastic effect (which I probably shouldn't do, but I am a stubborn person so I'm not going to delete it) but honestly, why do you think people should have to say everytime that what they say is only their opinion when talking about clearly subjective topics on an internet forum? Why can't you just say reply to someone that you disagree with them without also pointing out that not everyone believes something.

Or going back to your earlier comment when you yourself tell me to do something as if it is a fact that that is the only course of action I should do and that you clearly are allknowing about what I am thinking and that I objectively need to "relax" about it. I didn't take that as you were saying that. I took that as it was your opinion that I was going overboard and I responed in what I took as a rational and fair response giving consideration to your answer and explaining why I had that position.

Here is your previous quote I am referring to if you wont to know.

If that would seriously bother you then you need to relax, you're seeing racism everywhere.

On forums, when speaking on subjective topics, it is simply a pre-requisite that anything anyone says is just their own opinion. I am perfectly ok with preople responding that they disagree and actually debating with me why they believe I am wrong (which others have done). But if your only response comes down to the normal "well that's just your opinion" rationale then it is probably better for you to simply not respond unless you wish to explain why you (or others might) have a different opinion.

those same people still buy gasoline which gives money to arab nations that put homosexuals to death. call me when they are boycotting something that actually affects change in the world other than chicken sandwiches and games.

Oh dear, heavy sigh. It's 2012 and people still think Kanji was gay and Naoto was transgendered? They clearly need to pay more attention.

That was pretty stupid.

Dude, spoilers.

I don't think Atlus needs to be boycotted because of this, but it did weird me out how for all the talk of queer identities in Persona 4 the only representations we see of them are the twisted stereotypes Kanji and Naoto have of gays and transgenderedness.

Like, Kanji's shadow-self is supposed to be a version of him that embraces what society thinks a guy who likes sewing should be into -- so, he's a flaming promiscuous lispy gay guy. Naoto's shadow-self is about her wanting to be respected in a male-dominated profession, so the prospect of changing her sex to such an end comes across as mad science to her. These depictions make sense in the context of the story, -but- it comes at the expense of caricaturizing two very real human conditions with no counterweight to make it seem like it's not just a bunch of sheltered Japanese guys "othering" homosexuality and gender identity disorder.

This isn't to say that they should've included gay or TG social-links in Persona 4, of course! Just add in a couple of lines of dialogue that address the situation. After Yosuke describes shadow-Kanji and his bad, bad bathhouse as "sick" Chie could smack him upside the head for being an idiot, and they'd talk about what they plan to do if this turns out to be a real part of Kanji's sexuality. Yukiko could ask Naoto if she thinks she's a guy on the inside -- maybe even preeemptively offer support -- and Naoto could reply with "no, I can see how you would think that, but that's not it at all." These are minor changes, but they would go a long way -- and they don't impact the message of the story in the least! Everyone walks away happy, unless you're one of those weird guys who dislikes it when minorities are treated with respect!

@Lobst said:

I don't think Atlus needs to be boycotted because of this, but it did weird me out how for all the talk of queer identities in Persona 4 the only representations we see of them are the twisted stereotypes Kanji and Naoto have of gays and transgenderedness.

Like, Kanji's shadow-self is supposed to be a version of him that embraces what society thinks a guy who likes sewing should be into -- so, he's a flaming promiscuous lispy gay guy. Naoto's shadow-self is about her wanting to be respected in a male-dominated profession, so the prospect of changing her sex to such an end comes across as mad science to her. These depictions make sense in the context of the story, -but- it comes at the expense of caricaturizing two very real human conditions with no counterweight to make it seem like it's not just a bunch of sheltered Japanese guys "othering" homosexuality and gender identity disorder.

This isn't to say that they should've included gay or TG social-links in Persona 4, of course! Just add in a couple of lines of dialogue that address the situation. After Yosuke describes shadow-Kanji and his bad, bad bathhouse as "sick" Chie could smack him upside the head for being an idiot, and they'd talk about what they plan to do if this turns out to be a real part of Kanji's sexuality. Yukiko could ask Naoto if she thinks she's a guy on the inside -- maybe even preeemptively offer support -- and Naoto could reply with "no, I can see how you would think that, but that's not it at all." These are minor changes, but they would go a long way -- and they don't impact the message of the story in the least! Everyone walks away happy, unless you're one of those weird guys who dislikes it when minorities are treated with respect!

Persona 4: The after school special!

As the game is about high school kids, I feel like the reactions and somewhat stereotypical approaches in the game are perfectly appropriate.

But dammit! I missed Naoto love interest thingy because apparently she wanted Charlie to prefer her nonexistent girly aspects as opposed to her intellect or something more reasonable...

It was a little odd that the threat of ACTUALLY being trans/becoming a man was portrayed as some type of evil plot or whatever, idk. I think Naoto was fine but I'm a cis dude so if someone is upset, that's their right and I'm willing to listen. I won't be participating in the boycott though.

Focusing on Atlus is kind of an odd choice, but I guess if you love RPG that's where your attention is going to point.

edit: oh, haha, there are like a million pages, I thought it was still on the first.