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The $50 Million Dollar Shenmue Question

The man leading Sega into the future discusses his delicate dance with fans.

Sega has tried to thread the needle with Sonic, but fans haven't responded with an embrace.
Sega has tried to thread the needle with Sonic, but fans haven't responded with an embrace.

"You want what you’ve always wanted, but you also want something new. You want things to look like they always have, but you want the buzz of the new. Contradictions? No problem. They come with the territory. But is it possible to ask, and is it even possible to deliver something for everyone?"

That was Nintendo of America president Reggie Fils-Aime at its E3 2011 press conference, as the company made its pitch for merging the hardcore and the casual.

Sega and Nintendo are not very different, both Japanese companies with nostalgia-fueled legacies that help and haunt them.

Sega can't be an easy company to run. Fans are rabid, unrelenting. No Sonic game will satisfy them (though one could argue they haven't been very good), and without fail, every Facebook update has someone demanding a new Shenmue. But do people really want a new big-budget Shenmue, or just think they want one? At what point does the scale tip in favor of pushing something into production? 10,000 Facebook likes?

Former Sega of Europe leader Mike Hayes stepped into the role of running Sega's European and American divisions two years ago. When I talked with Hayes at E3, he described the past few years as a reconstruction. In order to face the future, Sega had to catch up to the present.

"A lot of what we've done in the past two years has been work underneath the water, rather than the swan on the top," said Hayes, as we spoke in one of E3's private meeting rooms, above the roaring show floor, overflowing with pedestrians. "It's the paddling underneath. [EA CEO] John Riccitello mentioned it at the Nintendo conference--it's about transition, and that's the key thing for us. How do we take the IP that's particularly strong at Sega and how do we bring that on to the different platforms [such as Facebook, iOS], rather than just the consoles we're used to?"

Sega's seen critical success with Platinum Games, but it hasn't exactly translated to sales.
Sega's seen critical success with Platinum Games, but it hasn't exactly translated to sales.
== TEASER ==

A look around Sega's booth at E3 shows a company with scattered priorities. Anarchy Reigns, a multiplayer focused brawler from Platinum Games, a development team founded by former Capcom employees, harking back to when Japan was gaming HQ. Aliens: Colonial Marines, Sega's push to forge an identity around an existing movie property away from the day-of-release game movie business that's seen less and less support from savvy consumers. Sonic Generations, the latest attempt by Sega to please old school fans and today's youth.

I joked about listing off a series of franchises Sega hasn't touched in years and asking for individual updates. Jet Set Radio? Panzer Dragoon? Phantasy Star? Seaman? Skies of Arcadia? ToeJam & Earl? Hayes, and the public relations girl, both laughed. Then, they both sighed.

"We listen and we think [about if] there is a real market opportunity," he said, "but the key thing is...there's a great fondness, but to bring it into the modern world is quite a tricky thing to do. In many instances, it's a very expensive thing to do to try and get to that point. We need to be quite smart. A lot of what we're doing, for example, on XBLA and PSN, is looking at reimagined IP. We can do that far more successfully and more reasonably and actually give players both a bit of nostalgia and a sort of up to date taste of how we can use that technology."

NiGHTS turned out be a product of its time, as the sequel didn't receive the warmest reception.
NiGHTS turned out be a product of its time, as the sequel didn't receive the warmest reception.

It's not as simple as identifying a fondly remember franchise and slapping a new developer on it. Golden Axe and Vectorman reboots both imploded. Did you play NiGHTS 2? Heck, look at what happened to Namco Bandai's Splatterhouse--that even had two assigned developers. Memories deceive, and it takes a talented developer to channel what made something magical in decades past and bring that up to speed. Duke Nukem Forever finally launched this week. That was worth the wait, right?

"We're really drilling back into the homeland of Sega," said Heyes. "We're very pleased with the progress, but as with all things, it takes time. It takes time. I think, certainly, this year, we're in good shape to perform well in the market. [...] The good news is Sega does have a lot of IP. It may well be that we unlock some of those that we haven't actually seen for a long time, and bringing them back on the new platforms that we have."

Sega has tried reboots in a box, ala NiGHTS 2 and Outrun 2. The company has seen more hits than misses on Xbox Live and PlayStation Network, where the games of Sega's past are more primed for reinvention that doesn't alienate those who've demanded their return in the first place. And you might not have liked Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1, but it did sell very well for Sega.

There will be more episodic Sonic, but also more reinventions of classics.

"You'll see a lot more being reimagined and reduxed on XBLA on PSN over the next two years," he said. "[...] We listen a lot to what people want and we've tried, in the past, with some great success and with less success to try and reimagine those. As an example, we're bringing Shinobi onto 3DS, which so far has seem to have gone down pretty well--it's a high-quality game. Hopefully, we do realize that for the consumer that likes that--that it's a fair representation of what we remember Shinobi to be."

Fans have continued to demand a new Shenmue game, something Sega still mulls over.
Fans have continued to demand a new Shenmue game, something Sega still mulls over.

Even though Hayes has been asked about Shenmue dozens of times, I wanted to touch on the subject, but only to propose how Sega wrestles with the fan demands against the marketplace.

"[With] a $50 million reimagination a Shenmue...are we going to achieve something that, at the end of the day, players are happy with?" he said, letting the question linger, as if asking himself.

Because even when you give fans what they want, maybe that's not what they wanted at all.

Patrick Klepek on Google+

141 Comments

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skrutop

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Edited By skrutop

I tried to play Shenmue 2 a few years ago and couldn't get into it at all. I think they've long since missed the boat on being able to justify spending the money on the third game in the series. No matter how strongly the fans feel about it, I just don't think there's enough of a market for that game.

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FateOfNever

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Edited By FateOfNever

Deep, man.  Deep.

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lizzard2

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Edited By lizzard2

I think its wierd... Yakuza is an old ip from ps2'era and that was apperently no problem to make for current gen, but shenmue is? 
I dont think yakuza games has so much more fans then a new shenmue game would have so i dont see the logic.  just my opinion.

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mnzy

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Edited By mnzy

The only thing I care about in this article is Platinum Games. If Sega SOMEHOW fucks this great team up, I will be sad.

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benderunit22

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Edited By benderunit22

Yakuza > Shenmue

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MooseyMcMan

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Edited By MooseyMcMan

More than anything else, I want a new Shenmue game just to see how it ends.  
 
And no, not that joke video where he goes to the moon and stuff. 

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McDevy

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Edited By McDevy

It might be the nostalgia talking, but I honestly believe someone should take Sega's hands off all their projects and give them to a more-suited publisher. Sega has ruined a lot of my childhood memories with things like Sonic, etc. It really pains me to see them fail over and over and not take any chances on things like a Jet Set sequel. 
 
Seems like just a ton of unimaginative top men at work over there. They seem to be years behind, and it's pretty embarrassing.

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Animasta

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Edited By Animasta

why has no one posted this:

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Romination

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Edited By Romination

@MooseyMcMan said:

More than anything else, I want a new Shenmue game just to see how it ends. And no, not that joke video where he goes to the moon and stuff.

"Can you tell me where I can find sailors?"

"the moon, kid."

I dunno, seems perfect.

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kamikaze_tutor

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Edited By kamikaze_tutor

Oh my god! How could I forget that Sega does Yakuza! That's Shenmue! Does it cost $50 million each time? Goddammit Sega, stop bullshitting.

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deactivated-5e49e9175da37

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Japanese artists and designers; good, occasionally brilliant.

Japanese businessmen and executives; the absolute worst in the entire industry. Every problem that Japanese development has, the myopia, the backwards innovation, the inability to recognize market changes... it all stems from the absolutely fucked business environment in Japan.

Hideo Kojima's greatest career obstacle, the thing that keeps him making Metal Gear, is that he's never learned English. If Kojima spoke English and worked in a Western market, you would actually see him at his best. Consider that Japanese management is so fucked that Keiji Inafune and Shinji Mikami, the two guys who MADE Capcom into a success, had to get the fuck out of there.

Japanese artists, designers, creators? Learn English. Move to Vancouver. You don't have to make every game into Monster Hunter anymore.

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FireSketch

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Edited By FireSketch

Nice article Patrick, thanks. Personally I got in the game game too late to care too much about Sega IP.

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Little_Socrates

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Edited By Little_Socrates

I'm very interested in Sega as a company. Not so much for Sonic the Hedgehog, but for all their other properties. They fascinate me.

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FixtheFernBack

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Edited By FixtheFernBack

One of the most egregious omissions is Virtua Fighter 5: Final Showdown, where the fuck is it??? Surely the resurgence of fighting games would make this the best time to put it out to consoles, what's more, most of the work is already done and sitting in Japanese arcades. 
 
SEGA is just a brand now, like Atari; it's soul flew way long ago.

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MisterMouse

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Edited By MisterMouse

man a great read! thanks patrick for writing this!

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Echo

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Edited By Echo

You mean you DIDN'T play NiGHTS 2? Fuck you!!

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DeVeAn

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Edited By DeVeAn

The truth is the original devs are gone and no one else cares enough to recapture the magic of tose IPs. Thats why in most cases those games are better left alone.

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gamebelongtous

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Edited By gamebelongtous

its not that people want shenmue 3... its more they just want the story to shemue to finally end somehow, especially after being left in such an odd place at the end of 2

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arcn

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Edited By arcn

Wow that does sound like an impressive list of games, would be awesome if they actually released some of them so I wouldn't have to contemplate spending 130 dollars on Skies of Arcadia and a used Dreamcast, oh wait what's that SEGA? you will release some these games? oh umm you meant to say that you're gonna give give me a collection of games that no one really wants instead? 
 
Thanks I guess...

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cikame

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Edited By cikame

I'd love a new Shenmue, as long as it's good.

I know that's way easier said than done, but if sega insists on holding onto the name then i'd rather they take their time, get themselves in a stronger position, figure out how to market games properly before continuing a gaming masterpiece.

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kollay

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Edited By kollay

Right now, all I want out of SEGA is to keep making Yakuza games.

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iamjohn

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Edited By iamjohn

Not to be a dick or anything, but uh... did you play NiGHTS 2, @patrickklepek? That game's shortcomings had nothing to do with it being NiGHTS and everything to do with it not being NiGHTS. The game was obviously rushed and filled with merciless amounts of padding and unskippable cutscenes, since literally you got one traditional NiGHTS style level per environment; it certainly gives a lot of credence to that story that broke a while ago in which that former Sega Europe employee revealed that NiGHTS 2 was originally supposed to be for 360 and PS3, then Sega shifted directions mid-development and gave Sonic Team a year and no more money to make it a Wii game instead. I feel like that's the problem here - with a handfull of exceptions, the problem with all these reboots Sega has been doing is that not only have they been generally awful (Golden Axe: Beast Rider, the PS2 Altered Beast revival that thankfully never came to America, practically every Shining game made for PS2, the harbinger of death that 3D Sonic eventually became), but they've also generally failed to capture the basic essence of what made them fun in the first place. I mean, fuck, look no further than Sonic 4 for proof of that - ask any die-hard classic Sonic fan and they'll tell you that the beauty of the games is that they aren't the "hold right to win" fests so many people (who only remember Green Hill Zone, basically) claim they are; what makes them so good is that they're just great platformers with excellent level design, multiple paths and a great sense of making you earn that momentum you've built up. Sonic 4 is literally "hold right to win; sometimes use the homing attack." Who the fuck is Sega trying to fool with that?

It's easy to look at it and say that the fans will never be happy, but consider the company we're talking about here. This is the company whose fifteenth anniversary celebration for their beloved mascot was a game given a ten month development cycle that, even if it wasn't rushed, was such a fucking misstep between terrible physics puzzles and Sonic making out with humans that it was always destined to be the worst goddamn thing ever. This is the company who thought that it would be smart, when first trying their hand at 3rd party development, to scatter all their IP around various systems without any reason and then got shocked when they failed (wow really? A Jet Set Radio game and Panzer Dragoon game released for the Xbox didn't sell well? Hey, what was the adoption rate of that console in Japan again?). This is the company whose teams of incredibly talented developers, composers, artists and visionaries have been squandered on endless Monkey Ball and Yakuza sequels while the US/European branch spends all their money on terrible Marvel movie games that don't sell particularly well anyway. Call me unsympathetic--hell, call me blind to harsh business realities if you want--but literally the only thing Sega still has is its fans, fans whom they've spent the past decade treating like shit. It's no goddamn surprise things have come to this because, frankly, it's their fault, not ours.

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theredace

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Edited By theredace
@HelicopterSpy said:

Dreamcast isn't as good as people remember.

Your face isn't as good as people remember.
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HydraHam

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Edited By HydraHam

@HelicopterSpy said:

Dreamcast isn't as good as people remember.

Obviously you didn't get one when it was still alive because it was a fantastic system that in ways revolutionized console online, without it we probably wouldn't of seen such a push on xbox or ps2.

Had a fantastic library of games and brought amazing new IPs, you must of been one of those people who got dreamcast a month before it died and is still bitter.

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Moody_yeti

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Edited By Moody_yeti

Oh please make a new shemue,I still own my 2 copies of shenmue 2 :((

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BoOzak

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Edited By BoOzak

@Laketown said:

why has no one posted this:

lol, just remembering how retarded the plot to shenmue actually was. Still an awesome game though, few games have reached that level of interactivity over the years. (I still blame shenmue for the popularisation of QTE's though..)

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iamjohn

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Edited By iamjohn

@Styl3s said:

@HelicopterSpy said:

Dreamcast isn't as good as people remember.

Obviously you didn't get one when it was still alive because it was a fantastic system that in ways revolutionized console online, without it we probably wouldn't of seen such a push on xbox or ps2.

Had a fantastic library of games and brought amazing new IPs, you must of been one of those people who got dreamcast a month before it died and is still bitter.

I like your style.

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Edited By sammo21

meh, Shenmue is kind of not really a factor in anything anymore. With Yakuza basically being THAT game but better and other open world titles out there I can't see myself even getting excited over a new Shenmue.

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Oxymoron28

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Edited By Oxymoron28

I'm hoping Sega do the right think and release Shenmue 1 and 2 as part of the PSN, XBL dreamcast releases. 
 
I'm also hoping Sony make the right move and announce these downloadable dreamcast ports can be played on the PSVita :3

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dvdhaus

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Edited By dvdhaus

A new Shenmue would be good, but I think a littler known reboot would be a better thing for Sega to try and bring back. I say how about a Burning Rangers revival. It could fit in many different formats and the budget could be controlled by the format they chose. XBLA or PSN would be ideal, but a 3DS version would in my opinion be the best. Actually if Sega decided to focus on one platform to develop games for the 3DS would be the platform I would like to see a lot of those remake/reboots on.

NTSC Cover
NTSC Cover
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dagas

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Edited By dagas

@BoOzak said:

@Laketown said:

why has no one posted this:

lol, just remembering how retarded the plot to shenmue actually was. Still an awesome game though, few games have reached that level of interactivity over the years. (I still blame shenmue for the popularisation of QTE's though..)

Meh, it's just a fake...I thought it was the true canon ending. I got all exited for nothing.

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vinsanityv22

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Edited By vinsanityv22

Well, first off, I completely disagree with that caption under the pic regarding Sonic fans. Plenty of people have stuck by Sonic games over the years, because they've always been fun (even if they haven't always been good.). Well, alright - the 2006 HD one was genuinely garbage. But the Sonic Adventures and Heroes - while technically janky - were still fun. That's why there are always true fans and apologists in the comments for every negative Sonic article.  And since Sonic Team (and Dimps -  they probably deserve more credit here) have officially turned things around with Sonic Unleashed (the non Werehog stages) and ESPECIALLY Sonic Colors (genuinely the second best platformer of last year, right behind Super Mario Galaxy 2), journalists need to pretty much STFU up about Sonic games not cutting the mustard anymore. It's been annoying for years. Now it's definitely wrong...and it feels so good to say that XD Hopefully Sonic Generations will put the nail in that coffin for good. Just like EA's plan to dethrone COD; you can't just make a good game. But you must make a great game, consistently, for 3 years in a row or so before all the opinions change.
 
Secondly, interesting feature overall. I don't want Sega to even think about Shenmue until they sort out their international teams. They don't seem to have any genuinely great first parties anymore, since they disbanded the Dreamcast-era teams during the PS2 years. Now they rely on second parties (the aforementioned Dimps helping out Sonic Team, but also Sumo Digital), or fall back on Japanese support (Yakuza). Even AM2's output has slowed to a crawl post-Yu Suzuki. They are not in a good place right now. They're lucky that Platinum Games has turned out to be such a good partner, because I feel like they're picking up the slack delivering great games for 'em. Not to mention, raising their profile substantially these days. I have a feeling though, that if Platinum were to talk to say - THQ or Bethesda - a game like Vanquish might've sold much better. 
 
But it would be great if a team were ambitious enough to work on Shenmue 3 with Sega. These days, as long as they have been paying attention to titles like Heavy Rain and LA Noire, could make something genuinely amazing out of that brand. I'd LOVE to see a Shenmue 3 from Quantic Dream and AM2 XD

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Ax23000

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Edited By Ax23000

I hate that they mention games like Golden Axe and NiGHTS 2...both games that weren't very good...as proof that people don't want to see follow-ups to these old series.  You can't put out crap and expect it to sell just because you slapped an old franchise name on it. 

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patrickklepek

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Edited By patrickklepek

@Ax23000 said:

I hate that they mention games like Golden Axe and NiGHTS 2...both games that weren't very good...as proof that people don't want to see follow-ups to these old series. You can't put out crap and expect it to sell just because you slapped an old franchise name on it.

I think it's more to say that it's not very easy to pull it off.

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Equal_Opportunity_Destroyer497

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I would push an old lady down an elevator shaft if I could get a new Shenmue out of it but Sega's inability to A) make a good game and B) market it effectively makes me think maybe we really should let our fond memories be just that.

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scarace360

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Edited By scarace360

Dreamcast 2 make it happen.

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nidzumi

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Edited By nidzumi

The thing is with Shenmue is that the fondness comes from something different. In a world of action-packed brown First Person Shooters, anything that's as different and as methodical as Shenmue was is bound to be sought after.

I'd rather they put their money into something different like that, than another Shenmue. We've got games like Heavy Rain and La Noire that feel like they pick off from Shenmue's groundwork. Although I did love the original Shenmue, it's probably time to move on to better and greater things. However, when most of what we're playing are brown FPS games, who can blame people pining for a Shenmue 3?

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Devil240Z

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Edited By Devil240Z

How about Shenmue 1 & 2 HD Collection?

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NickLott

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Edited By NickLott

The difference is that in the case of Shenmue, it had a outlined story that was planned but never finished. The other examples brought up were simply stabs at revamps.

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sickVisionz

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Edited By sickVisionz

Streets of Rage 4

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FesteringNeon

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Edited By FesteringNeon

I just wish there was a way to port over the same tech they used back in the day, and just make new assets within the technology. who cares if Shenmue 3 isn't in full HD.. who cares if it's the same exact game with slightly refined controls? That's what most people want when they want more of the same. Create it for the Vita. and make it playable on a PS3. Case solved!

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zityz

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Edited By zityz

Now that you've mentioned it. Forget Shunmue 3. Bring on more Panzer Dragoon, Skies of Arcadia and Phantasy Star.

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DarkbeatDK

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Edited By DarkbeatDK

Everyone's kinda mentioned it already, but the Yakuza series pretty much is the spiritual successor to Shenmue with a small incredibly detailed and realistic looking world with tons to do.

They could effectively use the Yakuza engine for a Shenmue 3, even IF it does look a bit dated by now.

The REAL sequel that everyone wants is Burning Force! Aww yeah! Although it would probably go the same way as that Altered Beast reboot.

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HarrySound

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Edited By HarrySound

I think if they aproach Shenmue in the Mass Effect formula but instead had the fist fighting rather than gun play it's could be a winner. 
They just need to take influence from all thats around them and put it into one big package no one can resist. 
Perhaps start from the begining again and just do one final FULL shenmue experience, with a little less waffle than before and better voice acting. 

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MegaMagick

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Edited By MegaMagick

I would rather sega work on that new sc-fi FPS i've always wanted than some super detailed, open world adventure game trash like Shenmue!

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notsonic

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Edited By notsonic

@DarkbeatDK said:

The REAL sequel that everyone wants is Burning Force! Aww yeah! Although it would probably go the same way as that Altered Beast reboot.

Speaking of burning, I can't believe Sega never made a new Burning Rangers, on the Wii, with waggle fire hoses, or on Xbox or 360 with headset voice commands.

Ooga Booga would make a great psn/xbla game too.

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deactivated-57d3a53d23027

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People should stop crying for a Shenmue when they can get Yakuza.

Every Sonic game is and always has been a bad game. Old games are even worse than new.

Platinum Games are the quality Sega developer, they just need the marketing.

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Edited By Dan_CiTi

Pretty sure Flower is the modern day NiGHTS. 

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Edited By poisonjam7

If they quit making shit Sonic games they would have enough budget to make Shenmue 3. Honestly, Sonic is dead, nobody cares any more. The gameplay just doesn't translate to a modern audience. Shenmue, however, can and should.

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It's a point worth considering.