Yeah, don't buy it. I was literally about to click the purchase button, and then I happened to notice this nonsense (click here for full size):

Can't help but think adding that turns a fair few people towards piracy because they don't want that crap on their computer but want to play the game.

" Can't help but think adding that turns a fair few people towards piracy because they don't want that crap on their computer but want to play the game. "

What's DRM mean?

" What's DRM mean? "

" Can't help but think adding that turns a fair few people towards piracy because they don't want that crap on their computer but want to play the game. "

" What's DRM mean? "

Frowny Face?

" What's DRM mean? "

When Capcom released Street Fighter IV on steam, they removed the SecuROM DRM from that release because it was unnecessary. That is the way to do it!
I bought Batman: Arkham Asylum on Steam when it was on holiday sale, that game has 4 activations per month limit and a is includes a License Revoking Tool. That is totally acceptable way to do it for me, but is it really necessary with Steam?

DRM is slowly but surely driving me away from PC gaming.  I've had to reinstall windows several times because some stupid DRM program decided to through a fit and screw up my pc.  When will they recognize that DRM is pointless as pirates ALWAYS get through it and all it achieves is the irritation of ligetitmate customers.

I don't really care, I needs more borderlands

DRM is POINTLESS. It does not stop piracy. Pirates will crack it in under a week, and that's taking it slow. If I recall Rockstar Games paid $100,000 to put a near impossible security on their PC version of GTA:IV. Pirates sucessfully cracked it in 1-2 weeks after release. Although that's longer than it takes for most games they still managed to put Rockstars $100,000 to waste.  If anything it was like making a $100,000 prize competition for them.
 
The only problem with DRM isn't that it's inevitably going to get cracked. It's that it also happens to be extremely intrusive and frustrating for legit customers. Often, like others have said before me in this thread, it actually forces them into piracy just for simplicities sake.
 
Until they manage to make DRM seamless it's pointless to include it in their products.

" Until they manage to make DRM seamless it's pointless to include it in their products. "

" @Suicidal_SNiper said:

" Until they manage to make DRM seamless it's pointless to include it in their products. "

I would argue that this is exactly what Steam does already. "

Glad I came here to see what people were saying about the new DLC. Didn't even notice that bit on the Steam page about the Drm as I assumed it would be the same as the main game. Definitely be giving it a miss, anything that I pay for should not be restricting me in any way. Especially seeing as you can only be logged into Steam on one machine at a time anyways.
 
Oh well, back to Dragon Age, still tons to do there :D

I'd rather play the game, so I'm going for the DLC, yeah... 
 
Protest non-purchases TOTALLY work.

if they hadnt released the pc version multiplayer broken, i could be a little more forgiving, but i already have a sour taste in my mouth.

They did not do this with the full game, why are they doing this with the DLC. 
 
WTF were they thinking?

" DRM is POINTLESS. It does not stop piracy. Pirates will crack it in under a week, and that's taking it slow. If I recall Rockstar Games paid $100,000 to put a near impossible security on their PC version of GTA:IV. Pirates sucessfully cracked it in 1-2 weeks after release. Although that's longer than it takes for most games they still managed to put Rockstars $100,000 to waste.  If anything it was like making a $100,000 prize competition for them. The only problem with DRM isn't that it's inevitably going to get cracked. It's that it also happens to be extremely intrusive and frustrating for legit customers. Often, like others have said before me in this thread, it actually forces them into piracy just for simplicities sake.  Until they manage to make DRM seamless it's pointless to include it in their products. "

" DRM is POINTLESS. It does not stop piracy. Pirates will crack it in under a week, and that's taking it slow. If I recall Rockstar Games paid $100,000 to put a near impossible security on their PC version of GTA:IV. Pirates sucessfully cracked it in 1-2 weeks after release. Although that's longer than it takes for most games they still managed to put Rockstars $100,000 to waste.  If anything it was like making a $100,000 prize competition for them. The only problem with DRM isn't that it's inevitably going to get cracked. It's that it also happens to be extremely intrusive and frustrating for legit customers. Often, like others have said before me in this thread, it actually forces them into piracy just for simplicities sake.  Until they manage to make DRM seamless it's pointless to include it in their products. "

" @Suicidal_SNiper said:

" DRM is POINTLESS. It does not stop piracy. Pirates will crack it in under a week, and that's taking it slow. If I recall Rockstar Games paid $100,000 to put a near impossible security on their PC version of GTA:IV. Pirates sucessfully cracked it in 1-2 weeks after release. Although that's longer than it takes for most games they still managed to put Rockstars $100,000 to waste.  If anything it was like making a $100,000 prize competition for them. The only problem with DRM isn't that it's inevitably going to get cracked. It's that it also happens to be extremely intrusive and frustrating for legit customers. Often, like others have said before me in this thread, it actually forces them into piracy just for simplicities sake.  Until they manage to make DRM seamless it's pointless to include it in their products. "

  Well actually DRM has a point for the publisher, the longer they can inconvenience and stall pirates, the more sales they get. 1-2 weeks of zero piracy is heaven for any game publisher. To the point where, yes 100,000 would be worth it for 2 weeks of pure sales. Publishers consider piracy a given, they know they'll never stop it, but the longer they can stall, the more they win, really. "

It's not available anywhere else yet, sadly. I read that it should be released by otehr publishers soon though.

Jesus that's so lame, it's on Steam! Why do they have to limit installs?! That's part of what makes steam so great, is bringing your account/games over to other computers at your friend's place or something.
 
Only other game I've seen that on Steam with is Crysis. Seems like most other games stripped it out for their Steam version. Don't know why a couple games still want to have DRM for Steam.

" @Suicidal_SNiper said:

" Until they manage to make DRM seamless it's pointless to include it in their products. "

I would argue that this is exactly what Steam does already. "

"Would it be morally okay to mail Take Two a 10$ check, and then go pirate the game? "

Unless you live in a place without access to broadband, or Valve goes out of business, or Valve decides they don't like you, yeah. "

You know, I always wonder why people get upset about stuff like this. You realize that it's a 5 machine activation limit right? Like unless you want to install it simultaneously on 6 different computers it won't affect you? Also even in such a case if you shoot a message off to support they'll usually immediately refresh your limit again. This won't even affect 99.999% of people who purchase it, and will only be a small hassle for the other small percentage. 

" You know, I always wonder why people get upset about stuff like this. You realize that it's a 5 machine activation limit right? Like unless you want to install it simultaneously on 6 different computers it won't affect you? Also even in such a case if you shoot a message off to support they'll usually immediately refresh your limit again. This won't even affect 99.999% of people who purchase it, and will only be a small hassle for the other small percentage.  "

" You know, I always wonder why people get upset about stuff like this. You realize that it's a 5 machine activation limit right? Like unless you want to install it simultaneously on 6 different computers it won't affect you? Also even in such a case if you shoot a message off to support they'll usually immediately refresh your limit again. This won't even affect 99.999% of people who purchase it, and will only be a small hassle for the other small percentage.  "

" @Geno said:

" You know, I always wonder why people get upset about stuff like this. You realize that it's a 5 machine activation limit right? Like unless you want to install it simultaneously on 6 different computers it won't affect you? Also even in such a case if you shoot a message off to support they'll usually immediately refresh your limit again. This won't even affect 99.999% of people who purchase it, and will only be a small hassle for the other small percentage.  "

Say you install the game, and a few weeks later upgrade your video card.  The game will no longer work because you now have a different system configuration than you did when you installed the game the first time, so you have to re-install the game and burn your 2nd activation.  Upgrading your CPU, GPU, or OS can count as an "activation" on some SecuRom games.  Maybe your PC gets infected with a nasty virus, and instead of googling for a few hours for a solution and installing 6 different anti-malware programs to get rid of it, you just format and re-install the OS, thats another activation.  Some people recommend formatting your PC and re-installing the OS every few months, if you do that buying a game with Securom is a waste of money.  SecuRom will often force you to disable some programs on your machine before it will install a game, what right does any piece of software have to tell me what programs I am allowed to have?
 
....anyway, I'm not surprised to see Gearbox/2K put some sort of DRM on Borderlands content, the game was pirated in the first week and the cracked version works online.  Its been a long time since I've seen a cracked game's multiplayer work perfectly online.  After I beat the game and got halfway through the second playthrough I decided to pony up some cash for it during the Steam holiday sales. "

I'm not saying it makes you close a browser, it makes you uninstall a program.  I believe it was Quake4 that made me uninstall daemon tools before it would allow me to install the game.  Maybe that was safedisk.....  But I think DRM like securom causes more piracy than it prevents.  DRM systems over the past decade have done things so wrong and left such a bad taste in consumers mouths that the initials "DRM" themselves carry a stigma with them that most people want nothing to do with.
 
Edit : I don't know what Steam's policy is toward resetting activations, or if they even have one since most games distributed through steam don't carry any additional DRM, and I think such a policy would have to be initiated by the publisher and not Valve.  Also earlier in the thread someone pointed out that Valve might send out DVDs of games if Valve goes out of business, I doubt they would do that, but they have come out officially in the past and said if such a thing were to occur that they would patch Steam to make all of your games available offline.  I don't see Valve going under anytime in the near future so its nothing to worry about.

Here, I put my points into FAQ format, because I'm too tired right now to do it any other way: 
 
Q: What's wrong with a five-computer activation limit? I mean, are you really going to go through five computers any time soon? 
A: Well, I might, being a computer enthusiast, but every time you modify any part of your hardware, such as your video card, CPU, etc., there's a chance that SecuROM may see you as having a "new" computer, and count that as one activation. If you get a virus and have to reinstall your OS, that counts as an activation. If your hard drive fails, you reinstall your OS, that's one activation. They stack up real fast, when you get down to it. Also, I like to keep games around. I still have my old Genesis games from my childhood that I like to go back and play every now and again. Steam seems like it's pretty much going to be the future of PC gaming, and I can expect them to stick around for years to come, so I think it's safe to say that at least another decade down the road, I'll be able to play through Half-Life 2 again.
 
Q: But when you run out of activations, then you can just call the company up, and they'll refresh your activation count if you can prove you paid for the software! 
A: Okay, so what the fuck is the point of having it to begin with? If you're a pirate, either you get a copy that you can't run at all because it's copy-protected, or you get a cracked copy that you can do whatever the hell you want with. If you're a consumer who paid for the application, you have to fuck around with this bullshit "x number of activations per y" system, and you have to call them when you run out, or whatever the particular DRM scheme happens to be. It's a slap in the face to paying customers, and the pirates get off free. Also, what if the company goes out of business, or they are unable to confirm my purchase? I would be fucked. Also, in order to make all this devilry work, they have to install shitware into my computer, which can make the usage of certain applications (or merely their existence on your hard drive) prevent your SecuROM-protected game from working at all. I don't know about you, but I don't want anything like that on my hard drive.
 
Q: So you clearly have a problem with SecuROM, but is it really that different from Steam's DRM?
A: Fuck yes it is. See, I'm the kind of guy who likes to have possessions. I like having things. I like downloading tons of semi-useless freeware applications just because it's cool to have them. I like having tons of music because I liked that band at one point in time. Hell, I like purchasing things on Steam when they're on sale just because, at some point, I may want to play that game. 
 
Q: But owning something on Steam isn't the same thing as owning a physical object, idiot. 
A: Yes, but this is my point. Steam is an incredibly convenient service. You just download one tiny program onto any computer, and you have instant access to every game you have purchased on their service, as well as access to their community, friends list, etc. If my computer dies, or I buy a new one (as I am about to any day now), I can just re-download Steam, leave it on overnight while it downloads all my games again, and, holy fuck, it's like the transition never even happened. (Sure, you lose your save data, etc., but Steam Cloud is looking to fix that.) So yes, I am willing to forfeit some slight rights if the benefits outweigh the lost rights. In this case, I am basically trusting Valve to keep my games for me, in exchange of having incredibly easy access to them, with integrated friends, achievements, server browsers, chat, and all that. However, I am not willing to have to jump through silly SecuROM-imposed hoops such as activation limits, just to play their game, with no benefit to me. Steam is a symbiotic service; it helps the developers and publishers of the game, the end users, and Valve. SecuROM helps the publisher, and... that's about it. 
 
This is getting really ranty, because it's six in the morning and I haven't slept, but I hope I'm being coherent enough in my points. Yes, I could live with SecuROM if I really wanted to, but the thing is, I don't want to. My desire to oppose even the most fundamental ideals of the system far outweighs my desire to play the game. I kind of wanted to pick up Crysis at some point, maybe after I upgrade my computer next, just to see it, but I was telling this whole story to a friend on Steam today, and he said "oh yeah, Crysis has that same thing." Yeah, there's another game I'm not getting.

"@Bellum said:

Unless you live in a place without access to broadband, or Valve goes out of business, or Valve decides they don't like you, yeah. "

I think the not having broadband thing is the only real issue there, and it's not even a function of DRM, but of just plain accessing Steam. Saying that lack of broadband access to Steam is Valve's fault is like saying lack of access to the iPhone's App Store is Apple's fault because you don't have an iPhone. 
 
I haven't heard any stories of Valve just "not liking" anyone and doing anything to their account (outside of VAC bans and TF2 item revocations due to cheating). As for Valve going out of business, I don't think that is ever going to happen, but, if it does, my perhaps too-naive assumption is that they will send you DVDs (or whatever the dominant media of this distant-future time is) of your purchased products, or something to that effect. 
 
I don't mean to come across as a douchebag Valve fanboy/defender or whatnot, but I really think Valve has nailed video game DRM as much as is possible. It strikes a great balance between working for the user, working for the developer/publisher of the game, and working for Valve. 
 
(Except, don't tell the publishers, but I can let my friends play my Steam games by having them log into my account on their computers. Aren't I sneaky? </sarcasm>) "

Yeah, I got screwed over cuz I bought the lot in bulk during the June sale and there was no mention of it on the Borderlands main page.  Now I'm looking for cracks before I even bother to install the bloody thing.

Good.  Fuck pirates.  All the way