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    Difficulty Level

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    Sometimes you want a challenge, sometimes you wanna coast.

    Do Higher Difficulty Level Offer More Appreciation for a Game?

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    jakob187

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    #1  Edited By jakob187

    With the release of Dark Void coming up, a lot of people have been bringing up smack talk about Bionic Commando, the 2009 "flop" from Grin and Capcom.  There have also been some people that have been throwing some slight remarks at Darksiders, even though that game is getting favorable reviews pretty much everywhere. 
     
    However, I don't feel that Bionic Commando was a bad game AT ALL.  That was actually a really good game.  Part of the reason I feel people talk trash about it is because it wasn't what they were expecting.  The game was linear and had a very specific goal.  However, I also feel that part of the problem is lower difficulty levels as well. 
     
    With Bionic Commando and Darksiders, I've taken the plunge and walked right into the highest difficulty setting for my first playthrough.  I figure...why not?  I want the challenge presented to me.  Because I played Bionic Commando on the highest difficulty, I feel like I was far more satisfied with the way that things turned out, and every fight I finished felt like a triumph.  The same can be said so far with Darksiders. 
     
    The reason I bring this up is because the Quick Look for Matt Hazard: Blood Bath and Beyond has recently gone up on the site.  Now, I know that the guys will generally play on either the easiest or mid-level difficulty option if one is available, typically sticking with the default difficulty.  However, in watching that Quick Look, I kept thinking "this is some bullshit, anyone can walk through that".  I wanted to see some gameplay on Fuck that Shit to see if it got ball-busting crazy hard!  I mean, Jeff and Ryan aren't amateur gamers, and they aren't by any means super pro gamers either.  However, those doods can absolutely take on a challenge.  Hell, Jeff played Mega Man 9. 
     
    All of this is to try and ask one simple question:  do you ever feel like there's a game that you've played on a higher difficulty setting which resulted in a more rewarding experience for you, but then you see a ton of people completely contradict that idea...knowing that they didn't play on a difficulty setting that is as challenging as the skill they may possess in a game?

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    Dolphin_Butter

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    #2  Edited By Dolphin_Butter

    Other than self-satisfaction or bragging rights (which gets you a penny minus a cent in today's gaming community) playing on a higher difficulty level has no personal effect on me; however, I find that playing an easier game is more favorable to playing a hard one. But if a difficult game has an excellent payoff (as was the case in Demon's Souls) it's worth it to me.
     
    By the way, I agree that Bionic Commando wasn't a bad game at all.

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    eclipsesis

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    #3  Edited By eclipsesis

    Killzone 2: the ending levels were insanely hard for me on the hardest difficulty.

    And to this day i have completed every Metal Gear on the hardest difficulties, which meant, finishing it in a certain amount of time, using no health packs, not being seen, altering any guards and not killing anyone. But it all comes down to trial and error with MGS 

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    GunstarRed

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    #4  Edited By GunstarRed

    I played BC on   the highest setting also and it made me appreciate that game much, much more one of the things that always annoyed me  would be when people would complain about the lack of power the pistol had or how the weapons were few and far between. I just dont think anyone was willing to improvise during the fights and use the arm as a tool as it was easily the best weapon in the game and I don't think I could have finished the game on commando without it. 
     
    But Yeah finishing that game  on the highest setting makes me feel a lot closer to the game, I think by forcing you to figure out how to exploit parts of the game and do unpredictable things you can grow fonder of it, It's not always the case,  for instance the call of duty games are just a test of patience  but with a game liek BC I feel  ten  times more satisfied by the game than I would have going through it on normal. 
     
    (normal in that game isn't very easy at all!)
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    apathylad

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    #5  Edited By apathylad

    While I did enjoy Bionic Commando, my main problems with the game were its story, specifically when:
     

     
    I could see the linearity being problematic, since the game is at its best when it lets you take advantage of the bionic arm's abilities, but I still had fun beating up enemies and evading them with the arm.
     
     Anyway, back to your main question, yes I do sometimes think a higher difficulty setting will provide a more rewarding experience. I got the impression from Jeff's review of Batman: Arkham Asylum that the game was pretty easy on Normal, so I played the game on Hard on my first run, were I was forced to take advantage of Batman's skills and tools more, and not just mash on the punch button. I got the same impression from Kingdom Hearts 2 as well, so I played the game on its hardest setting.
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    CowMuffins

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    #6  Edited By CowMuffins

    I almost never play games on the harder difficulties, because I almost never play games more than once unless it's been a really long time.
     
    I usually like games that a little challenging, but not super tough. If I can melee every guy, it's too easy; if I can't get shot more than once without having all my health depleted, it's too hard. And there is a difference between being challenging, and the game being cheap. If it makes you use tactics, and think before you fight, then I like that sort of thing (Like Demon's Souls). But, if the game has poor mechanics and the "increased difficulty" means stronger enemies, then that's not really fun at all. And of course there is also the "Game mechanics suck" difficulty that Kane and Lynch suffers from (Why the heck can't teammates pick eachother up? And why do the enemies keep respawning?)

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    makari

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    #7  Edited By makari

    I really enjoyed Bionic Commando as well. I also played it on Hard to begin with... and although it was pretty easy to die and some deaths felt really cheap because of it, it still wasn't so hard that it was impossible and frustrating. Playing on Hard probably extended the life of the game for me, and obviously demanded more of me than if I played the game on Normal first, so yeah, it clearly did influence the experience. I went back and played on Normal to clean up some achievements, and could not imagine myself enjoying the game quite as much if I had only played at that level. 
     
    It's not for everyone though.. Normal mode tends to be pretty breezy in most games these days, which is, I would guess, what most people prefer, as it is their recreation time and all. I sorta have a growing depreciation lately about how difficulty levels are used as unlocks though... I think that if a game gives you the option to go on the hardest mode from the get-go, it does a lot better for that difficulty's enjoyment than if you needed to play through normal and unlock the difficulty, and play through the whole thing all over again.

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    Fallen189

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    #8  Edited By Fallen189

    I play all my games on easy because I don't have time to fuck about with redoing things over and over.

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    jonnyboy

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    #9  Edited By jonnyboy

    I'll normally only play on harder difficulties if I'm allowed to bring equipment/abilities over from my last save game. I just hate the games that see a higher difficulty level as 'enemies hit harder' or "we're just going to out number and outgun you, deal with it". I like it when a little bit of thought goes into skill settings.

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    RandomInternetUser

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    @jonnyboy said:

    " I'll normally only play on harder difficulties if I'm allowed to bring equipment/abilities over from my last save game. I just hate the games that see a higher difficulty level as 'enemies hit harder' or "we're just going to out number and outgun you, deal with it". I like it when a little bit of thought goes into skill settings. "

    This is pretty much what I was going to say.  I enjoy hard games when it takes either strategy or skill to beat, not when it takes luck or patience to beat.
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    SeriouslyNow

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    #11  Edited By SeriouslyNow
    @Fallen189 said:
    " I play all my games on easy because I don't have time to fuck about with redoing things over and over. "
    ....and so we see further evidence of the 'casual gamer' in his native habitat....
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    unsolvedparadox

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    #12  Edited By unsolvedparadox

    Depends on how difficult it ends up becoming, and how it's handled (smarter enemies/less resources vs harsher modifiers on dice rolls or other stat only changes).

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    deactivated-61665c8292280

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    That sort of thing is totally dependent on the way higher difficulties are handled.

    Personally, I happen to really love the Halo games' Legendary difficulty. The quality of the design and balance of the enemies (for the most part, now; I'm not ignoring bullshit like The Library and Cortana) is perfectly suited for that methodical style of play. 
     
    Conversely, I basically hate most other games' highest difficulty setting. I don't have a lot of patience when it comes to failing, and if the failing isn't in some way interesting, and I happen to be struggling with the game because of, what I feel are, stupid design choices or arbitrarily and dramatically upscaled challenges, then I won't even bother. The early Call of Duty games are this way.

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    pause422

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    #14  Edited By pause422

    It depends how they do the higher difficulty. It has to be more than some games do, which seems to be one main thing, and one or two other things- You take more damage and die quicker, and just more enemies are present in general. That's very typical and doesn't do anything special. I like when people put the effort into their higher difficulties with things like, just better overall AI performance, like acting generally smarter, maybe even throwing more harder enemies at you earlier than you would ever see them on a lower difficulty. Some games even have specifical enemies or bosses you will only run into on the higher/highest difficulties.
     
    A lot of games though on 'hard' settings, are honestly fairly easy still and offer little to no challenge. So many fail to differentiate their difficulties across the board. Its either still too easy, or its not hard at all, but just generally cheap and not balanced properly entirely. A majority of people I think play games on normal instead of harder difficulties, though, so any extra appreciation maybe you or someone else may give a game that makes it feel more satisfying or a better experience overall because of a higher difficulty, others will not even address because they won't play it on them. 
     
    Overall, though, even when I do like when some games really do higher difficulties justice in making the game feel more satisfying, or throwing extra things your way, if someone can't have an equal opinion of a game on a lower difficulty as a higher, I feel like they did something wrong.(They as in in the devs)

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    jakob187

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    #15  Edited By jakob187
    @Apathylad: What Pepsi ads?  I'm not joking.  I don't remember any ads from Pepsi in that game. 
     
    @CowMuffins: I can agree with that.  Tactics and skill definitely make it better, which is why I think I enjoyed the shit out of Bionic Commando, and I've also enjoyed playing through Darksiders on Apocalyptic.  It's probably also the reason I enjoyed playing through Shadow Complex on the highest difficulty.  I look back at something like Def Jam: Fight for NY and remember just how much I hated the cheap-ass A.I. in that game, how it broke the whole experience for me.  That wasn't difficulty - that was fucking stupid. 
     
    I also look at the Call of Duty franchise.  For the longest time, beating the games on Veteran has been a badge of honor.  With Modern Warfare 2, people complained that the Veteran campaign was a breeze.  They COMPLAINED!  Personally, I thought that was a perfect setting for the difficulty of Veteran.  There wasn't a shitload of 'nade spamming and all the stupid shit from all the previous games.  Instead, it was actually a difficult task, but not impossible. 
     
    Dead Space was another game that I enjoyed on the highest difficulty, although I never ended up beating it on the highest difficulty because I got occupied with other games.  I really should buy that again. 
     
    But I just can't stand it when someone has to bash on a game when they have it on the lowest difficulty settings.  I mean, yes, I understand that a game should be able to make things entertaining across ALL difficulties, but I just don't see Matt Hazard: Blood Bath and Beyond being the kind of game that you would want to play on the lowest difficulty.  If it truly is trying to emulate Contra, then it makes me believe that the highest difficulty setting of the game should be goddamn brutal...which is what I want. 
     
    Yeah, there are some bragging rights to be had when you nail a game on the highest difficulty setting, but has the casual nature of gaming today started to deteriorate and potentially destroy the state of difficulty in games?  When it "easy" too easy?  So many games nowadays are turning into interactive experiences more than games, so what if we one day find a time where difficulty settings don't exist?  The game is just made, and you play it the way it is?
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    apathylad

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    #16  Edited By apathylad
    @jakob187: 
    They were scattered during indoor segments of the game. Unfortunately, the game didn't let you throw the vending machines as projectiles, presumably because Pepsi did not want its brand associated with killing people (Yahtzee's theory). 
     
     
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    demontium

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    #17  Edited By demontium

    depends on the game.

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    sixghost

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    #18  Edited By sixghost
    @jonnyboy said:

    " I'll normally only play on harder difficulties if I'm allowed to bring equipment/abilities over from my last save game. I just hate the games that see a higher difficulty level as 'enemies hit harder' or "we're just going to out number and outgun you, deal with it". I like it when a little bit of thought goes into skill settings. "


    What else would they change about the game to make it harder? It would be stupid to dumb down the AI on lower difficulties, because while making it easier, it also lowers the overall quality of the game. All difficulty levels are just contrived changes to the default setting, such as less health for the player, more health for the enemy, enemy hits harder, you have less ammo, more enemies, etc.


    To answer the OP, I think for some people playing on a higher difficulty results in a better experience with the game, but not simply because they are playing on a difficulty higher than default. Games are just more enjoyable when you are playing them on the right difficulty for yourself, so the game challenges you just enough to make completing the game feel rewarding, while not being so hard you want to stop playing. For some people that difficulty might be the 3rd or 4th difficulty, or for some it's the easy difficulty.

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    AndrewB

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    #19  Edited By AndrewB

    A good reason to play on an easier difficulty during a quick look would be to make it easier to talk about the game while playing, but I definitely see you point. 
     
    I typically play games on a normal-hard spread. That means, by default, on my first playthrough I generally choose the normal difficulty setting. This is especially true if it's a story-driven game, as I'm usually playing to see the story as well as enjoy the game, and I don't want to be hampered when I come to a part that frustrates me. Then when I'm finished, if I decide to do a second playthrough, I'll generally crank it up to hard (but rarely ever hardest, if it's an option) difficulty. I really don't derive pleasure in the challenge of gameplay, and I often feel frustrated with the higher difficulty settings of games because more often than not the method they use to make it harder is to pretty much make everything unfair.
     
    And really, I feel like a good game should have, to borrow an ironic quote from Fox News, a fair and balanced experience on normal that offers a good, tactical challenge. Harder difficulty should be reserved for after you've mastered the game's systems.

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    sixghost

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    #20  Edited By sixghost
    @jakob187 said:
    I also look at the Call of Duty franchise.  For the longest time, beating the games on Veteran has been a badge of honor.  With Modern Warfare 2, people complained that the Veteran campaign was a breeze.  They COMPLAINED!  Personally, I thought that was a perfect setting for the difficulty of Veteran.  There wasn't a shitload of 'nade spamming and all the stupid shit from all the previous games.  Instead, it was actually a difficult task, but not impossible.
    Sorry to brutalize your post and only respond to 1 paragraph, but what was to stop you from playing CoD4 on hardened or normal to get that same experience as you got from playing MW2 on veteran? Aside from the achievements that you probably got for beating the campaign on veteran, would there really have been any difference if that exact level of difficulty was the 2nd or 3rd of 4 possible difficulties? It seems weird to make a judgment on what you think is the proper highest difficulty level when there are people out there that would have enjoyed something that was harder.
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    Linkyshinks

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    #21  Edited By Linkyshinks
    @jakob187:  
     
    It can do, but I think it would be unwise to do that in any old game, it might suit some, but with others it could easily turn out to be a fruitless and extremely annoying endeavour. Some games work better in higher difficulty, while others fall apart, even more.    
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    Demyx

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    #22  Edited By Demyx

    I don't usually play on different difficulty unless it offers something different. Maybe if I was working on trophies. I usually stick with normal

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    liako21

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    #23  Edited By liako21
    It depends on the game I suppose. After seeing that quick look of Demon Souls where the enemies respawn after you die and you have to go through all of them AGAIN with capped health to retrieve your blood stain or soul seems INSANE to me. In that case the difficulty would not make me appreciate the game more it would make me hate it lol.
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    Claude

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    #24  Edited By Claude

    I'm a pussy. I play on default, normal or easy. When I masturbate, I want it hard, but I still want to come. Sometimes stroking it easy is better in the end.

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    deactivated-57b1d7d14d4a5

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    I generally play on normal. Typically easy is boring and hard is frustrating. Neither feeling is particularly fun. It's a delicate balance.

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    EVO

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    #26  Edited By EVO

    Good thread.
     
    Playing on a higher difficulty can definitely make you appreciate a game more, but if it's an immersive game like, say, BioShock, dying often can really ruin the experience.
     
    The first time I played through MGS4, I finished it with no kills, no alarms and no continues. Sure, it was rewarding to achieve that but looking back on it, I shoulda just gone guns blazing rather than trial & error.

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    chrissedoff

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    #27  Edited By chrissedoff

    playing arkham asylum on hard forced me to learn how to use the combos and gadgets in combat, and be extra stealthy, which you totally don't need to do on the other difficulties. i feel like, in that case, the hard mode feels like something that is truer to the intended experience.

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    crystalskull2

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    #28  Edited By crystalskull2

    Most of the times i play on normal,but i can see your point.Higher difficulties require more time and skill,so it gives a sense of accomplishment that low difficulties can't.

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    ZenaxPure

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    #29  Edited By ZenaxPure
    @jakob187 said:
    " do you ever feel like there's a game that you've played on a higher difficulty setting which resulted in a more rewarding experience for you, but then you see a ton of people completely contradict that idea...knowing that they didn't play on a difficulty setting that is as challenging as the skill they may possess in a game? "
    That is word for word how I feel about Infinite Undiscovery, game got a lot of hate and I can fully understand why playing on the default difficulty. But man that game got a lot better on "hard" and so far on "infinity" (the hardest difficulty) it is crazy, early in the game you live or die by the guard button which I never used once on lower difficulties. Shame that Tri-Ace disabled the two highest difficulties without beating the game on Normal first, that game was meant to be played on Hard from the start.
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    Capum15

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    #30  Edited By Capum15

    It depends. I'll usually go Easy the first time then depending on how that pans out, Medium/Hard/Whatever the second time.
     
    Though Halo is one of those I'll run through on Normal, then get a friend (or find some people online) and hit Legendary. I usually skip Heroic. It's really fun with 2 players (or 3-4, if online). I've beaten the campaign on Legendary like, 20+ times online. The ending sequence is always hilarious to hear people yell when they get thrown off the edge.

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    Fallen189

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    #31  Edited By Fallen189
    @SeriouslyNow said:
    " @Fallen189 said:
    " I play all my games on easy because I don't have time to fuck about with redoing things over and over. "
    ....and so we see further evidence of the 'casual gamer' in his native habitat.... "
    I see how you tried to burn me there, congratulations.
     
    Whatever, I don't care. I have a job and bills to pay, I don't have time to play things on artificial hard, where it's not HARDER, enemies just have ten times the HP. And I play so much stuff, I don't have time to be bogged down with one thing for weeks on end.
     
    I mean, WII FIT IS AWESOME.
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    SeriouslyNow

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    #32  Edited By SeriouslyNow
    @Fallen189: 
    Nah man.  I don't want to burn you.  I was a poke but not malicious.  Casual gamers rule the market these days and curmudgeonly old farts like me who always play hard or impossible just whinge about how things have changed. No malice meant at all dude.
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    SammydesinasNL

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    #33  Edited By SammydesinasNL

    Usually I start a game on hard (unless I know it's very very difficult), and if I get into any trouble after a few levels I turn the difficulty down. I can't really comment on Bionic Commando as I have not played it nor was I interested in any of the reviews. 
     
    As said before, it's really about bragging rights, but playing through RE5 on professional was really rewarding (not just the gamerscore).
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    Fallen189

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    #34  Edited By Fallen189
    @SeriouslyNow said:
    " @Fallen189:  Nah man.  I don't want to burn you.  I was a poke but not malicious.  Casual gamers rule the market these days and curmudgeonly old farts like me who always play hard or impossible just whinge about how things have changed. No malice meant at all dude. "
    I'm probably wound up over Dwarf Fortress and a frigigng elvish invasion. I went a bit OH GOD WHAT aswell. All the best!
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    Korone

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    #35  Edited By Korone

    I never really fully enjoy Call of Duty games until I play them on Veteran.

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    WinterSnowblind

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    #36  Edited By WinterSnowblind
    @EVO said:
    " Good thread.  Playing on a higher difficulty can definitely make you appreciate a game more, but if it's an immersive game like, say, BioShock, dying often can really ruin the experience.  The first time I played through MGS4, I finished it with no kills, no alarms and no continues. Sure, it was rewarding to achieve that but looking back on it, I shoulda just gone guns blazing rather than trial & error. "
    This is the type of harder difficulty I most certainly do not apprecitate.  Making the enemies soak up more damage, instantly kill you, etc, does not make a game more fun, just annoying.
    I've always liked the difficulty select for the Halo games (with the exception of Halo 2 which had horribly balance).  Normal mode is probably too easy for most experienced players, but Heroic is seen as more of the standard difficulty, which provides a good challenge and requires you to really think about what you're doing.  And then Legendary is rather brutal, if you're not careful. (doing it on co-op doesn't count!)
     
    Uncharted got the difficultly pretty much bang on as well, I felt hard was still too easy, but crushing provides the same good level of challenge without just feeling unfair.

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