Binary Domain: A case for spoilers on the Bombcast.

Before Binary Domain graced Giantbomb with it's presence I download the demo. While playing through it with my girlfriend sitting next to me, I got to the part where Faye accompanies you on your first mission with her and Big Bo takes time to appreciate her assets. It left a really sour taste in my mouth because I could tell it made my girlfriend at the time feel uncomfortable. I turned off the demo and never looked back. That was until @patrickklepek spoiled the game on the bombcast Game of the Year deliberations, something that I read multiple users complaining about how he "said more than he should have" and "should have stopped with 1 or 2 spoilers". During the Game of the Year deliberations Binary Domain went on sale for 12.49$ on Steam for the winter sale, and after hearing what this game was all about I was on board fully, bought it immediately and just finished it last night all in one session.

The game begins really slow, & the characters are all one dimensional, which in the beginning felt like a poor decision (ie Boateng's insatiable appetite to get it on) but towards the end of the game you find it was deliberate as a story telling device. The game's basically a big budget retelling of Journey to the West with the singularity as it's plot device. @patrickklepek was correct in saying that it's story does what Mass Effect tried to do better than Bioware, which for the hammy mess it is in sequences is a grand fucking achievement by all accounts. It's a game that reminds me why I used to love console gaming, for the days when Japan ruled the video game space. Sure it's broken in spots (the voice recognition stuff is bad) and approaches Nicholas Cage levels of hammy but the game also has a heart.

This is the part where I would like to publicly voice my disgust for the people complaining about too many spoilers on the podcast. I would have never played this game without knowing what this game was actually all about, and in no way did what @patrickklepek say diminish from my experience. This is why the crew needs the ability to talk about games while they're current. Binary Domain by all accounts was a sales failure. When you look at how much Sega spent making this game, selling a little under a third of a million on consoles is not good enough. These sorts of games need a platform for when the quicklook isn't enough, because that opening section is not indicative of what makes that game special. Binary Domain is the epitome of a B-movie in video game form. No other game in recent history succeeds in that regard, both in it's production to the reception from critics and the audience. It is endearing and should be played.

These sorts of games need a soap box, so many big budget games lack any sort of heart, and this game has it in spades. I wish I had known what this game was about sooner, I would have bought it full price. Instead I find myself buying multiple to distribute to friends. Sega deserves it.

Before Binary Domain graced Giantbomb with it's presence I download the demo. While playing through it with my girlfriend sitting next to me, I got to the part where Faye accompanies you on your first mission with her and Big Bo takes time to appreciate her assets. It left a really sour taste in my mouth because I could tell it made my girlfriend at the time feel uncomfortable. I turned off the demo and never looked back. That was until @patrickklepek spoiled the game on the bombcast Game of the Year deliberations, something that I read multiple users complaining about how he "said more than he should have" and "should have stopped with 1 or 2 spoilers". During the Game of the Year deliberations Binary Domain went on sale for 12.49$ on Steam for the winter sale, and after hearing what this game was all about I was on board fully, bought it immediately and just finished it last night all in one session.

The game begins really slow, & the characters are all one dimensional, which in the beginning felt like a poor decision (ie Boateng's insatiable appetite to get it on) but towards the end of the game you find it was deliberate as a story telling device. The game's basically a big budget retelling of Journey to the West with the singularity as it's plot device. @patrickklepek was correct in saying that it's story does what Mass Effect tried to do better than Bioware, which for the hammy mess it is in sequences is a grand fucking achievement by all accounts. It's a game that reminds me why I used to love console gaming, for the days when Japan ruled the video game space. Sure it's broken in spots (the voice recognition stuff is bad) and approaches Nicholas Cage levels of hammy but the game also has a heart.

This is the part where I would like to publicly voice my disgust for the people complaining about too many spoilers on the podcast. I would have never played this game without knowing what this game was actually all about, and in no way did what @patrickklepek say diminish from my experience. This is why the crew needs the ability to talk about games while they're current. Binary Domain by all accounts was a sales failure. When you look at how much Sega spent making this game, selling a little under a third of a million on consoles is not good enough. These sorts of games need a platform for when the quicklook isn't enough, because that opening section is not indicative of what makes that game special. Binary Domain is the epitome of a B-movie in video game form. No other game in recent history succeeds in that regard, both in it's production to the reception from critics and the audience. It is endearing and should be played.

These sorts of games need a soap box, so many big budget games lack any sort of heart, and this game has it in spades. I wish I had known what this game was about sooner, I would have bought it full price. Instead I find myself buying multiple to distribute to friends. Sega deserves it.

How about instead of supporting Capcom, you give your support to Sega, you know the actual publisher of the game?

@ll_Exile_ll said:

How about instead of supporting Capcom, you give your support to Sega, you know the actual publisher of the game?

I didn't get a lot of sleep last night playing the game. I edited the post to say Sega now. My bad.

@thabigred said:

I didn't get a lot of sleep last night playing the game. I edited the post to say Sega now. My bad.

No big deal.

As for the your main point of your post, it's a tough situation. For every case like yours there are others where people had Bioshock or Red Dead Redemption spoiled for them (not necessarily from the Bombcast) and as a result had a profoundly lesser experience because of it. I understand where you're coming from, but the thing is, many times spoilers come right the fuck out of nowhere on the Bombcast and there's nothing you can do about. For those that hate getting games spoiled, it's a really shitty thing when that happens.

You could have just as easily sought out spoilers for Binary Domain to convince you to play the game. As games become more and more about story, more and more people are going to try avoid spoilers. If you need spoilers to make purchasing decisions, there are plenty of ways to find them without people having to get blindsided in the middle of 3 hour podcast with absolutely no way of predicting or defending against spoilers.

EDIT: My point above is concerning regular bombcasts, for GOTY casts no one should be complaining about spoilers, they make it very clear that they will spoil stuff.

@thabigred said:

The game's basically a big budget retelling of Journey to the West

Really? Didn't we just get Enslaved a few years ago? What a weird trend.

thanks for the wallpaper!

also I'm with you, I don't think they ever did the spoilers on any other podcast (well, that they didn't say here be spoilers), but the GOTY podcast needs to be spoiled and if you're worried about any, why are you listening?

also holler if you're dead makes me sad now :(

Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Anyone complaining about too many spoilers during the game of the year cast needs to be shot. I say this as the guy who made this thread.

Seriously those people need to shut the fuck up.

The regular podcast? Sure don't give away everything about a game in the first month or two, that's fine, but the GOTYcast? Fuck off.

edit: As for saying spoilers can sometimes make a game sound more tempting, sure. I'd agree with that. The Dragon's Dogma and Tokyo Jungle spoilers come to mind as intriguing me about games I had no interest in beforehand.

I don't think we need spoilers, I just think we need someone to play them in a timely and fashion and be like "guys, just play this game. Trust me" if not a full review.

Also, that exchange between Bo and Dan when you're first introduced to Faye is so good!

Yeah, I loved this game, but I haven't played through it again since my first run through. I will definitely be trying again for the best possible ending. It was definitely on my top 10 list for last year.

Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Anyone complaining about too many spoilers during the game of the year cast needs to be shot. I say this as the guy who made this thread.

Seriously those people need to shut the fuck up.

The regular podcast? Sure don't give away everything about a game in the first month or two, that's fine, but the GOTYcast? Fuck off.

Great that Patrick got you to play the game with spoilers, other people feel the opposite about them. I'm also not a Binary Domain fan but many people do, so good on ya. I would argue that Deadly Premonition is the quintessential B movie game with a ton of Heart. I never got that feeling from Binary Domain. I like Faye at least, she is alright.

Goddamn thank you for that Nicolas Cage video.

@ImmortalSaiyan said:

Great that Patrick got you to play the game with spoilers, other people feel the opposite about them. I'm also not a Binary Domain fan but many people do, so good on ya. I would argue that Deadly Premonition is the quintessential B movie game with a ton of Heart. I never got that feeling from Binary Domain. I like Faye at least, she is alright.

unlike deadly premonition though, binary domain is not a chore to play.

@SomeDeliCook:

Heh. I'm exaggerating of course but they say right up front shit will be spoiled this is no holds barred discussion! If someone then complains about the no holds barredness of the discussion that someone is an idiot.

I will add that there's been at least two games I had spoiled that made me want to play those games instantly, where before that I had absolutely no desire. 
I don't remember specifically which ones, but I remember there was a couple. 
I know I didn't have the exact ending of Braid ruined, only that something crazy happens when you find the princess at the end, and that got me to buy the game after the trial and see what the hell was up. I finished it completely satisfied. 
The only reason I ever watched Fight Club was because I had the big twist spoiled for me over 10 years after it came out, and I watched that movie that day. 
 
Also, I think a LOT of people tried out Spec Ops: The Line specifically because certain parts were spoiled

@Animasta said:

@ImmortalSaiyan said:

Great that Patrick got you to play the game with spoilers, other people feel the opposite about them. I'm also not a Binary Domain fan but many people do, so good on ya. I would argue that Deadly Premonition is the quintessential B movie game with a ton of Heart. I never got that feeling from Binary Domain. I like Faye at least, she is alright.

unlike deadly premonition though, binary domain is not a chore to play.

The poor quality of Deadly Premonitions gameplay is overstated. I don't mind the driving, I find the controls for it funny. The shooter stuff is basically a much worse Resident Evil 4, but it is playable. I beat the game without even knowing about infinite weapons.

I think with all spoilers in gaming podcasts there is a reasonable amount of time after which the endings should be talked. Maybe a few months or so, whatever is would be enough Binary Domain was nearly a year old by the GOTY that's plenty old enough. And I'm not sure you can weigh its' worthiness as a GOTY without its' later plot develpoments.

Anyone who is having the game spoiled now doesn't have any real reason to expect that it wouldn't be after this much time and frankly is being unfair to people who already played the game.

fwiw I agree with the OP, in this case I'll probably buy this game because of the spoilers. It's not a game that I would have been interested in otherwise.

Bottom line is if you wants endings to not be spoiled for you, buy games at or near launch.

@ImmortalSaiyan said:

@Animasta said:

@ImmortalSaiyan said:

Great that Patrick got you to play the game with spoilers, other people feel the opposite about them. I'm also not a Binary Domain fan but many people do, so good on ya. I would argue that Deadly Premonition is the quintessential B movie game with a ton of Heart. I never got that feeling from Binary Domain. I like Faye at least, she is alright.

unlike deadly premonition though, binary domain is not a chore to play.

The poor quality of Deadly Premonitions gameplay is overstated. I don't mind the driving, I find the controls for it funny. The shooter stuff is basically a much worse Resident Evil 4, but it is playable. I beat the game without even knowing about infinite weapons.

I never said it was unbeatable, I said it was a chore; and it is. Deadly Premonition separates it's interesting story from it's horrid gameplay (for the most part), whilst binary domain is much more cohesive and the characters are always there to interject during the action.

It's a strange issue. I'm starting to feel that a little more leeway should be given in regards to spoilers in the normal podcast. While knowing the big game changer can make a game more appealing to some, or even a lot, of people, it can also take away all incentive to play for others. It's a weird line to balance.

That said, GOTY is different. They need to be able to look into every piece of the games to make their decisions, and that includes plot. If you don't want to be spoiled, don't listen. It's what I did; I didn't want too much of TWD to be spoiled, so I skipped the first 25 minutes of the day two podcasts.

I've definitely checked out movies after I've been spoiled on them because of what makes them special, like Planet of the Apes or Irreversible (oh god) and appreciated how the plot lead up to those iconic moments.

Not sure if I've done this with a game yet. When I'm done with my backlog, I'll get right on Binary Domain because of that spoiler. I remember spoiling Spec Ops The Line to a friend because he didn't get why it was so different, and I got him to buy it after that. :)

@Animasta said:

@ImmortalSaiyan said:

@Animasta said:

@ImmortalSaiyan said:

Great that Patrick got you to play the game with spoilers, other people feel the opposite about them. I'm also not a Binary Domain fan but many people do, so good on ya. I would argue that Deadly Premonition is the quintessential B movie game with a ton of Heart. I never got that feeling from Binary Domain. I like Faye at least, she is alright.

unlike deadly premonition though, binary domain is not a chore to play.

The poor quality of Deadly Premonitions gameplay is overstated. I don't mind the driving, I find the controls for it funny. The shooter stuff is basically a much worse Resident Evil 4, but it is playable. I beat the game without even knowing about infinite weapons.

I never said it was unbeatable, I said it was a chore; and it is. Deadly Premonition separates it's interesting story from it's horrid gameplay (for the most part), whilst binary domain is much more cohesive and the characters are always there to interject during the action.

I never found it a chore. Except towards the end when three or so combat areas were back to back. Besides that those parts were not too long and broke apart hours between, more so if you were heavy on the side quests. I guess while the combat is rather bad I found humor in near everything in that game. Like, during the chase parts with the Red Coat killer and even the enemys. Such, stupid design for those. So seeing how I found that humor injecting into it I was able to get past the combat.

I never felt that with Binary Domain, it lacked charm to me. The characters never made it better for it. As a result I found Binary Domain more of a chore than Deadly Premonition to play. To each their own.

"Binary Domain is the epitome of a B-movie in video game form. No other game in recent history succeeds in that regard, both in it's production to the reception from critics and the audience. It is endearing and should be played."

I really don't like broad, generalized statements like this. The epitome? Really? Care to quantify that rather than just baselessly asserting it as fact? You liked it, that's fine, but why phrase it as though anyone who hasn't played it is an idiot? I beat it last night, decent game, but the level of counter-critical praise this game is receiving is approaching hyperbole.

Does this game fix everything about the third-person, cover-based action genre in regards to pacing and storytelling?

Does this game have a bizarre gap in logic between what takes place in cutscenes and what you are capable of in gameplay?

Are there numerous QTE segments that arguably become pretty tedious towards the game's end?

Is Shindo a terribly voiced and underwritten character that features way to prominently in the story considering the rest of the cast is more or less ignored for a large stretch of the game?

Is there a fairly lengthy section that could be described as a corridor crawl?

Is there a protracted turret sequence that is not especially fun or engaging to play?

Those are some issues I had with this game that people may want to consider. This game has qualities worthy of admiration but it isn't a flawless gem by any means.

@Kraznor: the b-movie sentiment is mostly about the story and characters though, so many of your complaints are... invalid, at least in terms of railing against that.

@Kraznor: I'm not sure you know what epitome means.

Also, I don't think anyone will argue against your points. No one is out there praising the gameplay(which is mostly fine anyway) that I'm aware of.

@Animasta: That would divorce gameplay from storytelling and that doesn't fly anymore. IF a game can't marry its gameplay to its storytelling, it isn't doing a great job. Mechanical complaints are story complaints in the world of video games. And I beleive I did highlight the fact that the game builds up a cast of likable characters, then replaces them for a huge chunk of the game before bringing them back rather unceremoniously in the closing chapter. That really undercut the relationship-building component of the game.

@YI_Orange: A thing that is a perfect example of a particular quality or type.

Asserting that this is the perfect representation of a B-movie in game form is bothersome to me. This game is far from perfect in all respects. That isn't to say it doesn't have qualities, but don't use words like "epitome" if you can't back up the claim.

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't they say there will be spoilers going forward in the Day 1 GOTY podcast? Which negates any issues with spoilers being made no?

@Kraznor: well b-movies don't really have anything to do with gameplay, is all I was saying; undead nightmare did the whole b-movie thing to afaik, as did deadly premonition, adn those games play wildly different and one of them plays well and one of them doesn't.

Spoilers are powerful. They can show a good argument on why you should play a game, but they can also ruin it for many people. If you don't mind spoilers when people are trying to tell you why you should play a game, fine, that's great. Just understand that people are different and some of them don't like spoilers.

With that being said... Everyone who complains about spoilers in the GOTY podcast is out of their minds. It's the GOTYcast, of course it's going to have spoilers.

I don't think the pro of being able to speak freely about any and all games on the regular podcasts would outweigh the con of people getting spoiled for games they don't want to have spoiled. Im generally not too worried on game spoilers outside of really story heavy stuff like TWD, but I think it would be a bummer if people felt like they couldnt listen to the regular podcast in fear of spoilers all the time.

@Animasta: Relativity is a wonderful thing. I finished Deadly Premonition, couldn't be bothered with Undead Nightmare. Got to the point where you become undead and just lost interest.

I guess my main issue is, if you are translating a certain motif into a different medium, it won't really resemble the original work if done correctly. A lot of modern games are a weird middle-ground between games and movies what with the lionshare of the narrative content taking place in cutscenes, which rely on filmic techniques to convey their stories, so they aren't really the videogame equivalent of those things, they are more or less just another example of those with interactive segments. Its a nitpicky qualification, but I stand by it. The same criticism applies to both Red Dead and Deadly Premonition, both of which I loved but neither of which I'd call the perfect example of anything. Games are still growing and evolving and figuring basic things out in regards to conveying narrative and both of those are no exception.

@Kraznor: Ithink you are over analyzing a simple hyperbolic statement but whatever

@AlexW00d said:

Goddamn thank you for that Nicolas Cage video.

Yeah @Alex shared that on twitter a while back. It's a staple of mine ever since, watch it on the regular.

@Kevin_Cogneto said:

@thabigred said:

The game's basically a big budget retelling of Journey to the West

Really? Didn't we just get Enslaved a few years ago? What a weird trend.

It's really not that weird, after 2008's The Hidden Kingdom release there's been a huge attempt by both the West and Japan to get at the Chinese market. Journey to the West is a story that proliferates all across Asia but specifically plays well in China.

@Kraznor: Looking back on what I wrote, it was complete hyperbole. I actually do like other b-move esque games this generation but like others said, it was for the narrative that I was bringing it up here that set it apart for me. I actually wrote this at work during my lunch break in a rush so some stuff may be rough.

@Antikythera said:

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't they say there will be spoilers going forward in the Day 1 GOTY podcast? Which negates any issues with spoilers being made no?

They did, but there were a lot of people saying it was 'gratuitous' which really rustled my jimmies. I am of the opinion that even the podcast is fair game. They should warn they're about to talk about a game and if you don't want to hear it turn it off. That's where I fall on this.

To be fair, this is a game written by Nagoshi-san. He's the guy responsible for the Yakuza games. Those games, while not for everyone, are written very well and are really fun.

@Animasta: You're probably right, but if I won't, who will?

C'mon!! they say at the very beginning of the deliberations (every year now) that every game they mention is likely to be spoiled. I've said this before on other threads and I'll say it again... You didn't have to listen to the GOTY podcast they made spoiler- free video content for the awards, the podcasts are only secondary to the process. You should have known what you were getting into. I'm tired of people whining about this. If you didn't want anything s[poled you shouldn't have listened!

I'm one the Bombcrew you can't have a three hour long podcast every week and spoil some games along the way just a heads up before is nice like the one after brad finished me 3 I just went ahead and foreword it to the hour mark. Listing to the Goty deliberations without listing to walking dead spoilers and me3 spoilers were actually fun. Now for the Goty ep were Patrick spoils binary domain I goto agree that I might of not play it if I hadn't heard the twist in the story.the next game on my q is spec ops because of the ending ordeal sounds fun. Although I try my best not to get spoil on games the Bombcrew are ones I actually relate to and take most of their words on games especially vinny.

@thabigred: I understand your point perfectly. GOTY discussions are full of spoilers because of need, but there has been other recent examples in regular podcasts...

I started a topic in the bombcast forum to call the issue to their attention. Feel free to go there and give it your support.

Spoliers in the GOTY podcast are great. It's why I listen. It's the time at the end of the year where I say to myself, "I have missed the window of opportunity to play these games unspoiled. If and when I get to them, the experience won't be untainted and that is fine with me." I sort of think of the end of the year as an expiration date after which it's ok to be a little spoilery when discussing the years games (though they really didn't have to run through practically every surprise in Frog Fractions. Thanks for that.)

Spolier talk in the regular podcast is a real bummer. There is seldom a warning, so it can't be avoided. Providing a timestamp for the podcast indicating what gets discussed when, or at very least posting info such as "spoliers for Gun Shooter 2014 at the 2:45 mark" would be an incredible courtesy.

Patrick throws around too many spoilers though. He spoiled a significant moment in The Walking Dead for me. So yeah, "disgust" is kind of a strong term to use when you're talking about people who don't want spoilers in the podcast. It's also what I felt for Patrick at the time - not because I'm a hater, but because I was seriously, seriously, seriously pissed. I wanted to punch someone to the face. I took my headphones off and slammed the desk. It sucked.

Even though it is good-willing, you proposal is sort of arrogant. You can't expect everyone to play every game that's being released, and some spoilers do significantly detract from game-playing experiences. I can understand your case for Binary Domain since it doesn't seem to be the most plot-driven game out there, but to ask for more spoilers in general is dumb, misguided, and something you'd probably end up regretting if it really happened, because inevitably someone would say something that you wished you hadn't heard.

The thing I'll say is that between the Mass Effect stuff near the end of the year and then the GOTY podcasts, it has ingrained a Spoilers Are Okay idea there. Brad was about to spoil whatever is the best part of DmC THE DAY IT CAME OUT and had to be basically chided by Jeff to back down.

I think there's another topic on here about spoilercasts, ABSOLUTELY, DO MORE SPOILERCASTS. And keep it out of the regular Bombcast.

@hermes said:

@thabigred: I understand your point perfectly. GOTY discussions are full of spoilers because of need, but there has been other recent examples in regular podcasts...

I started a topic in the bombcast forum to call the issue to their attention. Feel free to go there and give it your support.

We shouldn't have a separate podcast, time stamps are good enough. This is where the community comes in, if you guys care enough post in the bombcast forum the timestamp of spoilers each podcast.

Would someone be able to tell me which GOTY podcast and which section patirck supposedly "spoiled" the game in. I just finish the game, enjoyed it, and made a point of jumping ahead of that bit in the podcast at the time just incase he did spoil it. Any help would be much apprecited, Thank you

Well it depends what it is. The part Brad wanted to talk about wouldn't spoil anything and in fact might have gotten more people interested in playing the game to see it for themselves. Of course the attitude that it's cool to talk spoilers about newly released games, on release day, is not ok. I think a happy medium can be reached where they can see a little more than they do already. I always bring up this example because it pains me to this day but when they were all psyched about Saints Row the Third - none of that stuff was really that spoilerific. They should have just talked about it.

Basically leave plot spoilers out of the Bombcast but when it's describing levels like the DmC example or Deckers Die from Saints Row then thats ok by me, cause it just gets me way more interested in the game than I would otherwise have been.

@humanity: Brad could have just said "one of the boss fights and the bit leading up to it is one of the most impressive things I've ever seen", not "I'm going to spoil the best part of the game, but there's this part where...". I was interested in the game, and I almost shut off the podcast because I didn't want him to ruin the best part of the game. Like, it's possible to talk about endings without specifically talking about endings and whether or not they're disappointing or have resolution without specifically talking about the events of an ending. Like "I like where the ending leaves things for either the next game or no game at all" without specifically talking about what the ending is.

And all of this could be fixed with more spoilercasts.

@Brodehouse I don't think describing it would spoil anything. That entire chapter from beginning to end is visually impressive. Saying that the level is a completely mirrored image of the world and everything is upside down isn't really spoilers in my opinion and neither is describing aspects of that boss fight but I'll leave that out.

Spoilercasts would be awesome but I just don't think they'll happen any time soon. Adding timestamps to Bombcasts would be great also, but that will definitely not happen. So not quite sure what the solution is that will satisfy listeners while not putting any extra workload on the staff. I mean I don't think it's that much more work, but then again when Vinny and Drew ran through how they do TNT's and whatnot and showed all that stuff they have hooked up to it I wouldn't be surprised if the Bombcasts is also mind numbingly more complicated than one would think.

As someone who appreciates in depth discussion, I think we as a people should be less strict in our notion of what constitutes a spoilers.

In my opinion anything that isn't a game changing huge plot twist, is fair game to discuss openly. Hell, I played MGS 4 AFTER listening to the GB spoilercast and had an absolute blast with the game, regardless, the power of the moments was such that even knowing about them they stand up on their own as great moments.