Map Maker vs Map Editor

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michaelenger

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#1  Edited By michaelenger

We have both of these concepts and I'm not sure which one deserves to be here or if they're both valid (separate) concepts:
Map Maker vs Map Editor

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Endogene

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#2  Edited By Endogene

to me they are valid, i used to map under UT2004 and trust me it has nothing to do with the map maker of farcry 2 for example

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michaelenger

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#3  Edited By michaelenger

So the distinction is whether the game has the map editing function built in? But how can you then say that the map editor is a part of the game. I mean, the track editor in Trackmania (you have a grid and you use the mouse to lay down track pieces) cannot be compared to UnrealEd or Hammer in terms of complexity and difficulty, but for the purposes of the program the end result is the same. And UnrealED and Hammer are both separate tools that aren't a part of the general gameplay experience... both UT2004 and HL2 rely heavily on User Generated Content, but saying that they should fit under Map Maker just because there is the possibility somewhere to go and make some customization using a program that you have to get ahold of and learn how to use yourself and you could just as well take a course in 3D modelling if you want to do anything with it sort of seems like overkill.
Maybe I'm overthinking this and we're supposed to be documenting EVERY part of games and gaming so I should just shut the hell up.

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Endogene

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#4  Edited By Endogene

actually in the case of UT2004 the map editor like the script editor come with the game, they are in the system folder.

For me a map maker lets you do some nifty stuff relatively easy but has its limits and a map maker lets you do whatever you want without restriction

looking at the games that are listed in those concepts some heavy clarification is needed

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michaelenger

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#6  Edited By michaelenger

That's what I was thinking. Splitting the concept in twain just causes confusion. I say that if you can make maps using some editor (included or not) it should have the Map Editor concept ("Map Maker" just seems so... off somehow).

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Endogene

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#7  Edited By Endogene

dunno this is a hard one
im playing grid on the ds at the moment, that game lets you created your own racing tracks using pieces that you put the one after another. I wouldnt call that a map editor

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#8  Edited By Emilio

Map maker would be like making your own level from scratch. Map editor would be like taking an already existing level and only being able to edit placement of objects or enemies and such.

That's how I see it.

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#9  Edited By breton
Emilio said:
Map maker would be like making your own level from scratch. Map editor would be like taking an already existing level and only being able to edit placement of objects or enemies and such.
That would, then, basically come down to whether the devs allow you to edit pre-existing maps or not. And that seems like a rather silly way to categorize.

Anyway, I'm for the merging of the two. One, for simplicity reasons. And two, for the fact that, while one may be more difficult than the other, they both share the same basic premise. As long as they are officially supported tools by the game developer, for the purpose of creating maps or scenarios, I see no reason to have them separate. The intricacies and difficulty of the editor can be covered in the specific game articles.
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#10  Edited By banksrob

personally i think there both valid

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michaelenger

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#11  Edited By michaelenger

So we basically have two groups: those who want to merge them and those who don't. I guess this is up to the GB crew to decide. Is there an admin around here somewhere?

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#13  Edited By thebeast

Moved to Delete & Combine Requests where this will get looked at.
Personally, I think there's a valid difference between UnrealED and Trackmania's track creator (for example) - but Map Maker/Map Editor certainly aren't the right terms - these are way too easily confused and we're just going to end up having both attached to anything with an editor.
Perhaps we could have "In-Game Level Editor" and "External Level Editor" - or any other term like "Map Developer Kit",  "Content Construction Kit" etc.

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#14  Edited By Endogene
TheBeast said:
"Moved to Delete & Combine Requests where this will get looked at.
Personally, I think there's a valid difference between UnrealED and Trackmania's track creator (for example) - but Map Maker/Map Editor certainly aren't the right terms - these are way too easily confused and we're just going to end up having both attached to anything with an editor.
Perhaps we could have "In-Game Level Editor" and "External Level Editor" - or any other term like "Map Developer Kit",  "Content Construction Kit" etc."
"Map Developer Kit" and "Content Construction Kit" sound the best in my opinion, although map dev kit is somewhat limiting as a definition for what some editors offer, of course this could be specified in the game's concept page
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michaelenger

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#15  Edited By michaelenger
Endogene said:
"TheBeast said:
"Moved to Delete & Combine Requests where this will get looked at.
Personally, I think there's a valid difference between UnrealED and Trackmania's track creator (for example) - but Map Maker/Map Editor certainly aren't the right terms - these are way too easily confused and we're just going to end up having both attached to anything with an editor.
Perhaps we could have "In-Game Level Editor" and "External Level Editor" - or any other term like "Map Developer Kit",  "Content Construction Kit" etc."
"Map Developer Kit" and "Content Construction Kit" sound the best in my opinion, although map dev kit is somewhat limiting as a definition for what some editors offer, of course this could be specified in the game's concept page"
That feels like over-complicating the matter. People everywhere know the programs as Level Editors and Map Developer Kit sounds more like a plugin for Maya than it does UnrealEd (I've heard of Maya, never used it so if it doesn't have plugins then please ignore this sentence).  Also, are we differentiating between the games that have the editor built into the game (the Tony Hawk series, for example) and the games that have an editor that needs to be found in the install folder or downloaded?
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Daniel

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#16  Edited By Daniel

Asking Jeff...

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#17  Edited By Daniel