COMPLETELY SELF-INTERESTED BUT THOUGHT PROVOKING DISCUSSION

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cliffsky

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#1  Edited By cliffsky

terrible first post - i realize - but please!

i'm trying to write a piece about videogames for my school paper (you may have heard of it). specifically, i'm trying to write a kinda-funny-but-really-dryly-academic piece about videogames as art (what else!)

so the entire idea is to introduce non-nerdy, artsy hipster kids to the State of Videogames Today, and i thought the best way to do that was to run by a few of gaming's higher profile artistic achievements, raising a lot of questions while i'm at it. basically, "yeah braid sure was a big deal and all, but look at what we nerds have been doing for the past two decades." also, i'm trying to dodge bullets by not overtly declaring anything as art. at best - "artistic".

problem is that while i was coming up with concrete example of games to back up my exploration of the medium - e.g. games that have deconstructed themselves properly, raised a lot of good questions, etc. - but i've been running at a lack. so i'm wondering whether you guys can come up with examples of games that best highlight the following concepts, questions, abstract notions. they don't have to be well-known, they just have to fit the bill properly.

(you can also just cuss me out, if you want)

anyway, here are the ideas:

- games as opponent - basically games that actively try to get the player to put the controller down. there's that one 20000-hit boss game tim rogers always talks about, then there's the entire survival horror genre, but any additional examples would be welcome. also, as a subset within this idea is the whole 'games as pain, not pleasure' concept, which hideo kojima seems to be pretty good at. but specifically, i'm looking for long stretches of otherwise enjoyable games that were just a deliberate pain to go through. like... a really long hallway? and final fantasy xii doesn't count - the entire game was painful to go through. neither does the library level in halo; that was obviously unintentional.

- tension between linearity and freedom in narrative-driven games - i'm looking specifically for games that have acknowledged the tension between writing a good game narrative, and giving the player as much freedom as possible. basically, these games try to recognize that - in the context of a story - it's impossible to give players any freedom beyond a point that's meaningful to the gameplay. bioshock did this super well i think, with its halftime twist. also, are there any games out there that prevent players from reaching the ending depending on actions they took? like, the game will simply deny you an ending, with no do-overs? imbedded in this question is the notion that - if you're not going to give the player any freedom - why not just write a book?

- games as satire - the best i could come up with was earthbound. if you guys have a smarter example of videogame satire, do tell.

- gaming as an art form driven by technological limitations - the idea here is to ask whether games with crude graphics can elicit an emotional response without resorting to written words. so, basically, whether emotions are triggered by proper graphical representation of objects or by player participation. super metroid had a pretty big wordless impact right at the end, when the (geez man spoilers!) metroid dies. but super metroid's graphics aren't exactly crude. so are there any pre-snes games out there that nail the emotional-impact trick without resorting to text?

- do games need endings? - can you guys come up with an example of a game that did not have an ending, and yet wasn't an MMORPG or sandbox game? like, a narrative-based game that flat out denies you an ending?


i have a few other ideas for the feature, but they're broad enough that more or less any videogame responds to the criteria. but the above ideas are all pretty specific, and i'm no encyclopedia, despite being a pretty huge gamer. so, uh, why not consult the source?

anyway, thanks in advance for all the cuss words!

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Jayge_

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#2  Edited By Jayge_

For your first example- I Wanna Be The Guy

Second example- What?

Satire- that's an interesting one. You might try that recent demo that was on the marketplace (had monkeys and politics involved). Crackdown was also a form of satire, making an interesting game out of the concept of overzealous policemen.

Gaming as an art form with limitations? You might check out the Masocore Indie scene, with games like 7 Minutes to Live, and others located in the Let's Play thread.

Narraitive-based game that denies you an ending? I can't really give one off the top of my head.

Hope this helps.

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deactivated-58efb53e06a03

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I lost you at please.

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Rowr

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#4  Edited By Rowr
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Arkthemaniac

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#5  Edited By Arkthemaniac

Battlefield: Bad Company could be considered satirical. I've njever played it, but it seems to be somewhat poke-funnish at the armed forces. Also, Escape From Bug Island was a very good opponent game, but for the wrong reasons.

I dunno, these generalizations are a little lame. Just talk about how all forms of art are meant to spike some emotion, and videogames can do this as well, sometimes better than other media. I don't get where you're going with these subcategories.
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fr0br0

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#6  Edited By fr0br0

I was going to help you out, but then I realized, nobody reads the school paper...

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Arkthemaniac

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#7  Edited By Arkthemaniac
Fr0Br0 said:
"I was going to help you out, but then I realized, nobody reads the school paper..."
OI! I write on my school paper and everyone reads it because I'm a B-B0-BAYUMF!
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chililili

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#8  Edited By chililili
Arkthemaniac said:
"Fr0Br0 said:
"I was going to help you out, but then I realized, nobody reads the school paper..."
OI! I write on my school paper and everyone reads it because I'm a B-B0-BAYUMF!"
I was gonna help you till I saw it was from the school paper. I thought this was a thesis/school project, the school paper does not require that much effort. Iguess if you want a satire game conker's bad fur day works or postal. The grand thef auto series too.
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Arkthemaniac

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#9  Edited By Arkthemaniac
chililili said:
"Arkthemaniac said:
"Fr0Br0 said:
"I was going to help you out, but then I realized, nobody reads the school paper..."
OI! I write on my school paper and everyone reads it because I'm a B-B0-BAYUMF!"
I was gonna help you till I saw it was from the school paper. I thought this was a thesis/school project, the school paper does not require that much effort. Iguess if you want a satire game conker's bad fur day works or postal."
Why are you quoting me? I didn't create the topic.