Giant Bomb is a business

@Amilmitt: @CaptainCody:

Excuse the poor writing, it's very late..

As someone who knows about web-based businesses, SEO, I have a bit of insight about how websites run businesses now. First of all, Amilmitt, those sites you mentioned don't even scratch the surface of the amount of content that GB does and correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't machinema use fan content on their site? If they don't now, I'm sure they did at one point.

I don't know how familiar with the news and reviews side of the industry you are but gaming mags and websites are downsizing and dropping like flies on those advertising only budgets. The Kotakus, the 1Ups, the IGNS, they keep laying people off, keep relying more and more on freelance work and make more and more intrusive ads. This is not indicative of a healthy business model. The way the internet makes money, especially with the explosion of bloggers, is moving away from advertisement. Perhaps there is some money to be had in selling merch, but there are only so many backs to equip shirts upon.

That being said, there's a history that brought GB to deciding to have subscribers and it was their integrity. I won't drudge too much of the past up, but if you google Jeff and Gamespot, you'll get some interesting reads. Follow up with a bit of reading from Dan Hsu when EGM took a dump and you'll have a bit more insight to GB's thought process.

And mostly, they did it because they really give a shit about us. I want you to look at the eight hours of GOTY deliberations you get to see. The five hours of E3 podcasts you get to hear. All the behind-the-scenes stuff you don't get to see and hear normally. These guys care about the industry and they care about the video games and they care about the people who come here.

As far as not everyone getting the same stuff, or a degradation in content, I can't see it, but I paid up so perhaps I can't feel particularly indignant of that. If there is a distinct lack of content that was normally there that isn't anymore, it's because they're working harder than they ever had. They have to make content for subscribers, who have ponied up real money for content, and then content for people on the whole. I'm betting they're trying to do more with less and hiring only when they have need (which is why we got cool guys like Patrick Klepek).

So if you guys have the magic bullet that makes a successful gaming site that attends all the big meetings, records hours upon hours of video then edits it, owns a majority of their own pod-casting and streaming equipment, does hours upon hours of behind-the-scenes content(this is all free BTW) and staying in business successfully, you guys are wasting your time on this site. Make your own site, and make some mad dough, or better yet, send the guys an email, I'm sure they'd love to hear it.

@Marokai:

What point was that? Was it the point you got 8 hours of GOTY deliberations or the point where you got to hear drunken developers get miffed at each other for four hours at E3. Has it been the great addition of Patrick Klepic for his savvy nose for news, or the shenanigans of the interns? Which of these, which you got for free, shows you they don't care?

Not paying them feels like pirating.

@Marokai:

I think this thread is dumb, but that does not detract from the fact that you make some very good, common sense points,

Talking about boneheaded things that happened around the time of the Sub model, that video they made where they drew comparisons of Members to non-members (I know it was meant to be tongue in cheek or something) the tone of the video was, Members are awesome people who get to hang out with hot chicks and stuff, and non-members are scum,

They actually thought it was a good idea to get lemon to act as a "Non-member" and then they take turns to kick him lying down

what the fuck man

I say get rid of ComicVine and invest that money into HD video for everyone.

This is the videogame site with the most custom content, especially in video form. Someone has to make those videos, buy the equipment, pay for hd space and traffic. How much do you think a Giantbomb user costs that streams 10h to 30h of HD Video a month? I would just say, due to the fact that the typical giantbomb user costs the site more than a user on IGN or Gametrailers, this cost has to be recuped some way. Somebody has to pay the staff at the end of the day. I use this site every day, I'm perfectly fine with paying 5$ a month. But I would like content parity for all members and make HD video and video downloads the only payed member feature. I think this would be good enough.

here's how i see it.. i bought a shirt and got some extra "member" content for free

as for it being a business, true or not.. the fact is that providing EVERYONE on this site with content costs money. the hosting, the equipment, the traveling to events, the people providing you with content.. it all has to be paid for. with such a big member base putting a few ads on the site usually doesnt cut it. besides that, i prefer paying a member fee over an overcrowded ad filled site any day.

maybe they could rethink the amount and types of paid member content they put up, but im happy with what i paid for so far.

$5 a month for this amount of great content is a scam. Even if the membership cost me $100 a year I'd still pay it. 

All the features that were available on Giant Bomb before the subscription started, continue to be available to non-members. It's not like there were things you liked that were taken away. Then they said, "hey become a member and you get extra content". You decided not to, so why are youcomplaining?

And it's not like this extra content is about game coverage. Members are not getting earlier access to previews/QL/reviews of hot anticipated games (example: 12-hour Skyrim marathon is for everyone, because it is a coverage of a hot and anticipated game). All we get is dumb, silly, fun stuff (which is awesome). You want that? Become a member. That's what was advertised all along.

Here's an idea: let's block ALL the content non-paid members are getting for free for a week. Then you'll all realize how much stuff you get asking nothing in return. Paying members pay because they either think that the exclusive content is worth paying for or because they want to give something back to Giant Bomb for all the stuff they do. As simple as that. Don't like it, feel free to go away.

@Amilmitt: Oh god, are you slow? You clearly know nothing of how money is made. I will say this: machinima is not run by youtube revenue, it is not where the bulk of their cash comes from, if you bum them so much you should know this. Again most people on youtube who make gaming videos do not live off that, they just don't generate that much interest. Yes, there are youtube success stories, not many of those are in the gaming sector however.

I think I have made a few good points, you just chose to ignore them and get butthurt. If you learn to write maybe your posts would not look like they were written by a 10 year old baby (doubt it though).

@OppressiveStink: Very well put sir, I tried to make the same point, much less eloquently though, and the guy pretty much called me an asshole with nothing good to say so I doubt you will get through to him (amilmitt that is, the OP seems to be a deranged maniac who can't keep track of his own posts).

@axlrose15 said:

@Amilmitt: Oh god, are you slow? You clearly know nothing of how money is made. I will say this: machinima is not run by youtube revenue, it is not where the bulk of their cash comes from, if you bum them so much you should know this. Again most people on youtube who make gaming videos do not live off that, they just don't generate that much interest. Yes, there are youtube success stories, not many of those are in the gaming sector however.

I think I have made a few good points, you just chose to ignore them and get butthurt. If you learn to write maybe your posts would not look like they were written by a 10 year old baby (doubt it though).

You didnt read a thing i posted.

of the other people i stated, yes they do have their own site. the same way as giantbomb does.

But guess what they are comprised of less people but they work just as much to make about the same amount of content. TotalBiscuit is the only person who makes videos for his channels, he covers all conferences in his area as well as shoutcasting various game match's.

The yogscast despite their personality's on their videos, they are amazing business men, they started on podcasts then moved onto youtube. after that they made their own site and are host to about as many fans as giantbomb.

Machinima does have a lot of other revenue, but it is still entirely driven by their videos. Machinima is actually larger than whiskey media, they hold more than 5 channels. currently moved into a huge new office. Probably have more video and streaming equipment than giantbomb will ever need.

The thing im pointing out is that all these people and more provide all there content for free and are in no danger of going under. the way of video content is changing, the reason so many of the older sites are dieing is because of this.

I am in no way Bashing giantbomb, im saying they have the potential to be bigger than they are now and making plenty more. They already have the equipment, the people and the fan base. If they leverage youtube for it's full potential they stand a good chance to be at the top as well as being able to give all content away for nothing.

With a channel for every site, they could start getting in the range of where machinima sit's in terms of subscribers. With the recent offload they should at least give this way a chance, test it using one of the sites and see what the statistics say.

p.s. i see no problems with my writing o sir english teacher.

@CaptainCody said:

@elcalavera said:

@CaptainCody said:

I'm with you two which is why I made this thread to see where everyone else is with me on this. I know what you mean with the views but since their debut they've gotten a new bigass building, more staff, more production equipment, skylanders, and Jeff is considering buying a new car. Money is no issue.

So, here's a "problem" I see a lot of bitching about and I cannot for the life of me understand what it's about. What business do you have with what the employees of Whiskey Media do with their salaries? That's just sick.

if you weren't an idiot you would realize I was making the argument of DISPOSABLE INCOME, and sick? It's not sick guy, you must be the type of person who is disgusted by hugging.

Wow, the entitlement here is staggering. "THEY CAN AFFORD THINGS SO I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO PAY FOR THEIR WORK!".

Are you expecting the staff to scrape by on the bare minimum in their REAL lives so you shouldn't have to spend a measly 5 bucks on something. Sit down and consider what five bucks is.

I'm considering buying a new computer, I suppose my work should lower my wage and pass the savings on to the customers.  I'm obviously being paid too much if I can do things like purchase goods.

@Amilmitt: I read everything you posted, its just so much verbal diarhhea. How many times do I have to say that youtube is not what makes the big $ for machinima? You make youtube sound like the holy grail, geez simmer down already. Read the the post from OppressiveStink, you may find it insightful as to the though process behind the GB model.

As many people already said, you are not losing any content as a non-sub, its all still there.

I'm not a teacher, but my old English teacher would probably snap my neck if I wrote like you, but that is irrelevant, the main point is that your arguments are poop.

The first reply to this thread totally missed the point. That has to be a record, right? No?

Well, I just came in here to say that it's unfortunate that everything can't remain free. I can only guess that memberships are not nearly enough to cover the cost if they have to resort to things like that. If it's any consolation, there are people who subscribed because they don't want premium content. Some people subscribed because they wanted nothing to change and all the features (new and old) to stay free. It really blows that it can't be like that, but that's life.

Until the next "Giant Bomb" comes along, this is as good as it's ever going to get...

If I wasn't a student I'd be paying but this site is blocked in my halls of residence so paying for the premium content is like throwing money away, add to this I'm in the UK so usually asleep for the live events. The site is a brilliant idea and the content on it is great. They are my most trusted resource for me for reviews, quick looks are hilarious and they have one of the best podcasts out there.

I don't see advertisements on the site or on the video due to adblock but I'm guessing they are getting that revenue. Being a non-subscriber isn't hurting them and being a subscriber is giving them an added bonus while they give you an added bonus in content. Seems fair to me.

@TeflonBilly: The issue is not that everything is not free, the issue is that random bullshit went from completely free to a subscriber-only feature.The chief reason that this site is better than IGN,Kotaku,Gamespot is that these guys have fun. I dont care about games news, I care about the culture of games and people fucking around with games in an entertaining way.

Thankfully with the new TANG and the Endurance Run coming up, the balance will be redressed slightly.

@swamplord666 said:

tbh, my subscription is a donation, and the extra content is a bonus.

Same here. If you want the content and like the website buy a subscription... also you get a free shirt

This thread makes me sad.

/watches premium content

A lot of people are focusing on the subscriber content or the money, but after a bit of reading I'm not sure that's what @CaptainCody's on about. I don't think he cares about subscribers at all, it's more that the site is getting a bit set in its ways with less "feature" video content. So let's have a look. Since subscriptions began we got:

• Patrick Klepek delivering much better news and reporting than we've seen on the site before.
• NDX
• Building The Bastion
• Extreme GOTY(.cx) coverage
• Various weird and wonderful variations on I love Mondays (iPad Love Mondays, I Presidents Monday, The Battle of Mondays)
• A bunch of Ask Me Anythings
• 3DS footage in 3D
• 3DS girls come to Giant Bomb
• Infamous 2? Man I Saw That
• Mortal Kombat Scrub League
• Betting The Farmville
• BLLSL 2.0
• Entertaining Quick Looks of obviously awful Kinect titles
• More Quick Look EX content than before
• Shitloads of intern content like the excellent Fear Gauntlet - this contains Kessler and Lemon doing a Condemned endurance run and is well worth a look.

The quantity of video reviews is dropping off sharply, but that's fine by me - the quantity of Quick Looks and text reviews is increasing.

In the year before subscriptions, we got:

• Question of the Week, a feature which simply died through lack of interest. The new community focus box on the homepage is better for this.
• Jeff and Brad play Yoostar 2
• Talkin' Bout Bioshock Infinite
• Civil Service: The Road to Civ V
• Video Blog: Playing Through Starcraft II
• Various office move videos including Kessler eating the fish. I'm not sure these count because the office move was not a "regular" event.
• Will Smith dismantles a new 360 slim
• Outback Confessions
• DSi XL unboxing
• MAG videos
• Ryan's Inferno
• A couple of Ask Me Anythings
• A few TANG videos
• Game Room

I didn't include the Endurance Run because, well, we're getting another one of those so it wouldn't be fair.

So it's pretty much the same quantity of stuff. I think in the past four or five weeks the content has been relatively slim just because of the volume of big titles coming out.

@swamplord666 said:

tbh, my subscription is a donation, and the extra content is a bonus.

100% right on the third post. god bless you sir.

I started listening to the Bombcast about 2 or 2 1/2 years ago. The Bombcast was one of my top 3 podcasts. I listened for almost six months before actually checking the website out. I started visiting here and there until the live E3 streams came up. From that point on I become daily reader on GB. I view this site as one of my favorite enertainment sites. A site about video games. I was happy to pay. I listen to the Shockwaves Skullsessions podcast about the metal scene. I have donated to the host several times and will do it again. Where else can I hear the discussions and history of some of the bands I grew up with? The point is I view these sites as would a magazine. I subscribe to keep getting it and if our subscriptions can keep this place ad free unlike IGN then I'm happy with the purchase. Hell I just updated my IGN iPhone ap for .98¢ to be ad free. Well worth it. These places need income to pay the bills and grow. If GB stops entertaining me then I'll stop visiting and paying.

I don't get it. If people are willing to pay $5 a month for a magazine then why is $5 for a website any different. Content is content, regardless of if it's a physical medium or not.

@swamplord666 said:

tbh, my subscription is a donation, and the extra content is a bonus.

Why is this still going.

Since the Tricaster cost a bundle to buy - and likely was not cheap to repair after they broke it - if anything deserved to be for paying members this was it.

Reading the comments it wasn't really worth watching anyway :D

P.S. GB has always been a business. People need to earn a living. They are just trying to at least break even now is all.

@CaptainCody: You do realize that the people working there are actual "people" yeah? They need to eat, pay for their homes and video games. They don't live inside your computer screen.

You also realize how our current monetary system works right? You need small pieces of paper to give to others to get these services. Now, to get these little pieces of paper a lot of us to what is known as "work". Some of this "work" is done in the form of entertaining and informing others (see GB Crew).

Personally I find the fact that anything on this site is free is an amazing gift. They're actually working, spending their own lives and time, providing you with free content which you have to do NOTHING to receive. And you have the FUCKING BALLS to complain about some of it being closed off for subscribers only? Nice grip on reality dude.

I have no problem with the Premium-only content, more than enough free stuff to keep me going.

@evildeadron said:

@swamplord666 said:

tbh, my subscription is a donation, and the extra content is a bonus.

this fucking this 10,000 X

I think so too. In that regard, I'd be totally fine with them making most, if not all, the premium videos available to free users through the youtube player, and maybe just keeping the HD quality on-site video player stuff and downloadable videos for subscribers, since that's what taking up their bandwidth. Maybe they could reach even more people on the youtube channel if they posted some of the stuff that's so far only been available to subscribers, as some of it has been pretty damn great.

The only thing I don't like is that Meebo bar. It's extremely out-of-character for them.

@ds8k said:

The only thing I don't like is that Meebo bar. It's extremely out-of-character for them.

It's an experiment, and one that can be easily ignored. If it helps them earn more income while remaining unobtrusive, then hey, more power to them with that.

@CaptainCody: You pay for TV. you pay for HBO. You pay for Amazon prime. You pay for Netflix. You're going to eventually have to get over the mental barrier of paying for content on the internet.

I really don't get how they are surviving off around 13k people paying them $5 a month or less (on a yearly). That's 65k a month, with around 15 employees? That's not even enough to pay them, let alone the building/equipment/data. They must still have a sugar daddy keeping them afloat, or make a shitton on ads which I highly doubt.

@jozzy said:

I really don't get how they are surviving off around 13k people paying them $5 a month or less (on a yearly). That's 65k a month, with around 15 employees? That's not even enough to pay them, let alone the building/equipment/data. They must still have a sugar daddy keeping them afloat, or make a shitton on ads which I highly doubt.

The company's funds come from a combination of subscriptions, advertising, and investment capital.

@SamFo said:

It's five bucks... Just stop whining and take the free content. Or pay five bucks? Or just go somewhere else and stop complaining. Sick of these threads....

This. I've been listening to their FREE podcast and watching/reading their FREE content on their site since it was launched, so I want to support their efforts and give something back. What Whiskey Media puts out isn't shit so they should get our support.

Pony up the five bucks a month or drop the fifty if you want to pay less. And after doing that all start posting some threads with real value to the "community;" I'm sick of these threads as well.

yes, GB / whiskey media is a business. so? just a quick question to the some of the non paying members: what kind of phone do you have? what kind of contract are you on? the best example for this is the iphone, a product from the most valuable company in the world. lets say you have an iphone because you like it. so you will gladly spend your money on a product that you like but you don't even know the people behind it AND you're probably fueling horrible working conditions in china with it. but you're happy with the product, right? but here you get free content, and i mean a TON of free content from people who love their job and give it everything they got. you're here mostly because of the people and the content they deliver to you. but now you're complaining about 5 dollars per month so you can't get more entertainment from these guys? really? so they're just jesters for you? pay the 5 dollars (per month, not per day!) and you'll get all you want from this website and more. some people said it right: a pack of cigarettes is 5$. a cheep ass burger from a burger shack is 5 dollar. hell, if you go drinking on the week-ends, you'll probably spend 30-40$ a night!

another example: sure you can get your gaming for free, play all the free to play games you want. but you can't go bitch about paying for modern warfare 3 to activision because "they lock you out of entertainment". can't you?

i started subscribing even before they did a lot of premium content, just because i like supporting the guys, the company and the website i REALLY like and love. i'm a student and don't have much money, but these 5$ are still only 2% from my monthly salary. i know people who give 15% of their salary to charity, and they don't get ANYTHING in return, except a good feeling in the tummy. and that's worth 5 dollars.

@Hailinel said:

@jozzy said:

I really don't get how they are surviving off around 13k people paying them $5 a month or less (on a yearly). That's 65k a month, with around 15 employees? That's not even enough to pay them, let alone the building/equipment/data. They must still have a sugar daddy keeping them afloat, or make a shitton on ads which I highly doubt.

The company's funds come from a combination of subscriptions, advertising, and investment capital.

Yeah, and investors want to see money at some point, and for that you have to make a profit which I seriously doubt they do. Either they are hoping to quadruple their subscriber-base or they are hoping to sell the site to some big company. I really love these guys, but frankly I wont be surprised if they will have the close the whole thing down within 2 years.

@jozzy said:

I really don't get how they are surviving off around 13k people paying them $5 a month or less (on a yearly). That's 65k a month, with around 15 employees? That's not even enough to pay them, let alone the building/equipment/data. They must still have a sugar daddy keeping them afloat, or make a shitton on ads which I highly doubt.

It's much more than 15 employees dude, but that's not the point, I imagine they get most of their money from ad revenue. I dunno how much that is, but I'm guessing it's not quite enough atm.

Man this whole whining over the premium stuff confuses me, they originally said they didn't want to take anything from non-subscribers but give bonuses to subs which is not what really happened at the start, but in the recent months imo they have turned this around which is what finally got me to subscribe. I like GB, a lot, it's easily my favorite gaming website on the net, but I won't say my money is a donation like others. I wanted something worthy of purchase from the guys which was not there at the start, I mean does anyone remember the bullet points of the original content subs got? Something along the lines of HD videos, the mobile site stuff, and the happy hour. None of which I personally felt was worth my money, because like you said GB is indeed a business and what they were selling wasn't interesting for me.

However, one day when I jumped on the premium content page to see all these cool videos that were original and not stuff normally there for free users, GB had finally fulfilled their original promise in my mind, giving awesome features to the sub crowd without taking away any freebies. QLs are still abundant and daily, still reviews over what the GB crew want to play, still TNT, and so on.

I am sure out there some other people have the same mindset as myself, which is why GB has to come up with new ideas to keep subs rolling in which honestly makes posts like the OP sound like some whining entitled child who doesn't get everything he wants for free. I mean just think about it logically for 10 seconds, the GB crew could give out everything for free and slowly bleed subs over time and then they would have to start cutting back on content, layoff amazing people, and eventually shutdown in their current form. Do you really want that to happen OP? Because if you got your wish that would be the inevitable future of the site.

@Lydian_Sel said:

I'm fine with paying for Whiskey Media membership in the same sense that I'm fine with paying for music. If I genuinely enjoy something then I'm happy to support it both in spirit & finance.

Yup.

@EdIsCool said:

@TeflonBilly: The issue is not that everything is not free, the issue is that random bullshit went from completely free to a subscriber-only feature.The chief reason that this site is better than IGN,Kotaku,Gamespot is that these guys have fun. I dont care about games news, I care about the culture of games and people fucking around with games in an entertaining way.

Thankfully with the new TANG and the Endurance Run coming up, the balance will be redressed slightly.

Random bullshit we used to get is a subscriber only feature huh?

So everything from Scrub League to the BLLSL, to Building The Bastion to Nintendo Download Xpress were hidden behind the subscription after it appeared?

All their other subscription based videos have been content specifically made to appease the people who have donated their money for more wacky content that they crave.

I will concede one point though, they really should post their YouTube vids in 480p. I mean, we're not living in the damn stone ages and it's still a far enough cry from full HD that any subscriber should call foul. Personally, I wouldn't care if the YouTube vids were in 720p, but I can understand how that can stick in someone's craw.

@Dtat said:

@CaptainCody: You pay for TV. you pay for HBO. You pay for Amazon prime. You pay for Netflix. You're going to eventually have to get over the mental barrier of paying for content on the internet.

I pay for TV, not any of those other things but, okay..?

It also still amazes me how a good portion of the members in this thread still seem to entirely miss the point I made while at the very least some others managed to understand that much, I tip my hat to all the users who decided to not berate me.

@TeflonBilly: None of that is really random bullshit, For starters: I loved Scrub league, but it was planned, and also please don't use events from many months ago as catering to free users, that applies to BLLSL as well. Secondly, Building the Bastion was a nightmare to watch, the games awesome and so are those guys, but I do not want to watch people talk about how they are making a game for an hour. The Xpress, wasn't that also ages ago?

I think the guy who posted just after the OP summed it up perfectly. Surprised everyone has run around in circles for 13 pages.

@RobbleWobble said:

@swamplord666 said:

tbh, my subscription is a donation, and the extra content is a bonus.

Why is this still going.

No mods on the weekend. I woke up and couldn't believe this thread is still here.

@oct_ONES said:

I found this thread to be quite entertaining as i read through the posts. One thing i observed is that your replies seem to get angrier an nonsensical as the thread moves on and as valid points are made against your opinion from both sides. It's obvious that you care about this site, otherwise you wouldn't have made such a thread, but the fact is not all of the content that you see posted daily is what they do in a workday: the staff is constantly producing content, playing through games to get a review done, attending press events, and managing the wiki database, etc. In my opinion, much like what has already been stated in the thread, you are paying the membership fees to support the site, while the premium content is simply a "bonus". The staff feels entitled to make this content as a "thank you" for supporting the site not so much as something to be marketed. If you are not financially able to pay for this site you may have bigger worries in life than not being able watch grown men sit on a couch and play video games.

I do though feel that the Youtube switch in video should utilize the HD format since they are saving money through offloading some of the video bandwidth costs and the person that suggested that they should sell merchandise in the store that maybe helps to advertise for Giantbomb is right (i would really be interested in a logo shirt like the ones in the Too Human video or a sticker to slap on my laptop).

Fair points and I agree with what you say for the most part, the only reason I was getting annoyed earlier is because I have to deal with the initial wave of the devolved community.

Since when has GiantBomb.com NOT been a business?