This is against copyright laws correct?

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tobygw

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#1  Edited By tobygw

So I'm pretty sure that this is illegal and it violates copyright laws but I want to know what you guys think. This video "Black Ops Pokemon Style" not only completely rips off our style, name and idea, but it actually just rips parts from our video, and tries to cover it up and hide that it's our video underneath. They didn't get permission from us to do this, and they are making a significant amount of money off this.  
 
Now I'm pretty confident that we are going to be able to get this taken down, but what are your opinions on it? Do you think it is illegal and what are your thoughts on them stealing it? Thanks.  
 
(First vid below is their video, and the MW2 one is our original video.)
 

   
  
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crusader8463

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#2  Edited By crusader8463

It was illegal for you to make your video in the first place unless you got permission from both Nintendo and Activision to use video of their products and characters.

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Tylea002

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#3  Edited By Tylea002

Have you heard of Yu-Gi-Oh Abriged Series?
 
Yeah, I think your situation's a bit like this.
 
EDIT: I misunderstood. Actually ripping parts of your video WOULD be against copyright laws. Yeah, you're right.

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BulletproofMonk

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#4  Edited By BulletproofMonk

They stole what now?

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iamjohn

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#5  Edited By iamjohn

If they actually took footage from your video, then they're scumbags who deserve to be called out on it.  However, you've both made non-copyrightable derivative works.

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CaptainCody

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#6  Edited By CaptainCody

You work with Machinima?
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wolf_blitzer85

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#7  Edited By wolf_blitzer85

How are they making money off of this? I mean if they packaged DVDs and were selling this off Amazon sure, but these just look like Youtube videos. Is there some way to make money off of those that I don't know about? That is a bummer that these dudes jacked your idea and all, but considering your original video is essentially a bunch of copyrighted material to begin with, I fail to see why you're so adamant about enforcing copyright laws when you don't really own most of the source material to begin with.

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tobygw

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#8  Edited By tobygw
@BulletproofMonk: Any part of the video that takes place in the pokemon world is directly taken from ours. You can see that their text boxes look different since they are actually just photoshopped images covering up our original dialogue.  We also edited the character's color to be black, that is not what it normally ends. And finally to confirm any doubt of this at the very end of the videos you can see that we very discretely edited a scavenger icon onto the computer monitor. I guess they didn't notice this and forgot to remove it.
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coaxmetal

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#9  Edited By coaxmetal
@tobygw: Since they stole footage, they are assholes, but unless you filed for a copyright on that video, which I am not sure you could anyway, I don't think broke any laws. Neither of you owned the original copyrights anyway. 
 
@crusader8463 said:
" It was illegal for you to make your video in the first place unless you got permission from both Nintendo and Activision to use video of their products and characters. "
naw, fair use protects this kind of thing.
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landon

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#10  Edited By landon

If it's funny enough, no one will ever care.

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The_Laughing_Man

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#11  Edited By The_Laughing_Man
@tobygw said:

" @BulletproofMonk: Any part of the video that takes place in the pokemon world is directly taken from ours. You can see that their text boxes look different since they are actually just photoshopped images covering up our original dialogue.  We also edited the character's color to be black, that is not what it normally ends. And finally to confirm any doubt of this at the very end of the videos you can see that we very discretely edited a scavenger icon onto the computer monitor. I guess they didn't notice this and forgot to remove it. "

You cant do anything. Since you do not own the original stuff. Unless you own a copyright on the video. Which you can not do since you do not own pokemon or COD. You can do nothing but troll their videos. 
 
So no, It breaks no laws at all.
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tobygw

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#12  Edited By tobygw
@wolf_blitzer85: Yes you can become partnered with youtube where then ads are featured on your ads and you get payed. I'm estimating they've made around 600 dollars off this. 
 
@CaptainCody: Yup
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coaxmetal

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#13  Edited By coaxmetal
@tobygw: If they made money off your stuff, it still probably isn't a legal thing, since again, you didn't hold the rights to pokemon or COD in the first place (though your use was fine, since its a fair use case) but I bet since they stole stuff and made money, you might be able to complain to youtube and they might do something. Also, Machinima is awesome. Good stuff.
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MysteriousBob

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#14  Edited By MysteriousBob

I'm sorry, who the hell are you? What did who rip off?

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tobygw

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#15  Edited By tobygw
@Bennyishere: Yeah I've done this. I know that if Machinima agrees that it should not be allowed, they can easily get youtube to pull it right away.
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The_Laughing_Man

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#16  Edited By The_Laughing_Man
@tobygw said:
" @Bennyishere: Yeah I've done this. I know that if Machinima agrees that it should not be allowed, they can easily get youtube to pull it right away. "
However it is not illegal so you can not sue. Best you can do is get it pulled. It would only be illegal if you could copy right your video. Course thats impossible since you do not own Pokemon or COD.
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JoelTGM

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#17  Edited By JoelTGM

it sucks when people do stuff like that.  Youtube is weird.  

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RsistncE

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#18  Edited By RsistncE
@tobygw said:
" @Bennyishere: Yeah I've done this. I know that if Machinima agrees that it should not be allowed, they can easily get youtube to pull it right away. "
Machinima doesn't own the rights to Pokemon or Call of Duty. Neither do you. You or Machinima can't do shit as a result since what you did in the first place was "against copyright laws". If any, Nintendo and Activision could come along and get both of you guys to pull the videos down, but that's about it.
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Lonely_Misanthrope

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It does look like they probably ripped off your initial idea but since your idea includes using copyrighted material without permission I don't know how useful falling back on copyright law would be.  Don't get me wrong, from what little you just shared about the situation it sounds like you're in the right it's just that 'in the right' is pretty relative in this case.   Also, their website logo doesn't block part of the text in the video clip like yours does. 
 
I am sort of wondering how anybody makes money from these things though.  Website traffic?

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Feser

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#20  Edited By Feser

You can be a partner with youtube? Really?  And you can make money from being a partner with YouTube by taking licensed characters and recreating it? I'm sure once you do that it breaks what's considered fair use (But I might be wrong).  
 
 
 
 
 
Either way it sounds like a legal clusterfuck.
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tobygw

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#21  Edited By tobygw
@The_Laughing_Man: I'm not at all concerned about suing. My goal is to get the video removed and which in that case, they likely wouldn't get any money from it. Also if this happens the channel may get shut down since they have had multiple copyright strikes against them before. This couldn't make me any happier since I have had past experiences with the owner of the channel and he is a colossal douche.
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Garfield518

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#22  Edited By Garfield518

I'm loving everyone giving copyright law comments, when they're all wrong.
 
Everything published on the internet is given automatic copyright protection, and can only be disputed against, not for. 
Copyright infringers can still be held liable if they take credit for things they did not create, in this case, the stripped gameplay.
 
All of the Pokeman images fall under fair use.
 
The video can easily be taken down if you properly flag it, or contact Youtube/Machinima.

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JoelTGM

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#23  Edited By JoelTGM

and yeah Activision can totally pull that if they felt like it.  I had a gameplay video up that showed me playing and getting killed by people using aimbots, and Activision removed it from my account... like ok you can do that I guess.. thanks.  

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tobygw

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#24  Edited By tobygw
@Lonely_Misanthrope: Money is made off of these by ad revenue from ads displayed on the videos. And ya the watermark covering the text was added by machinima when they put it up on their channel. Pretty inconvenient positioning though.
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Hailinel

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#25  Edited By Hailinel
@tobygw said:
" @BulletproofMonk: Any part of the video that takes place in the pokemon world is directly taken from ours. You can see that their text boxes look different since they are actually just photoshopped images covering up our original dialogue.  We also edited the character's color to be black, that is not what it normally ends. And finally to confirm any doubt of this at the very end of the videos you can see that we very discretely edited a scavenger icon onto the computer monitor. I guess they didn't notice this and forgot to remove it. "
This doesn't make it any more or less a copyright violation, given that you can't legally copyright your own production which contains actual copyrighted material.
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jeffgoldblum

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#26  Edited By jeffgoldblum

You could spend a lot of money hiring a bunch of lawyers only to be laughed out of court or you could realize how dumb arguing over how made a pokemon youtube video first is and go do something productive. Like playing a video game! 
EDIT: Besides you have nothing to worry about the Machinima video is much better.

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tobygw

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#27  Edited By tobygw
@DOUBLESHOCK: Yea they don't normally care about this though, because it is basically free advertising for their product. It was even promoted by Infinity Ward's community manager, so I think they approve.
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evildeadron

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#28  Edited By evildeadron

 
 
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crusader8463

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#29  Edited By crusader8463
@Riboflavin:  Not really. If Activsion or Nintendo saw it and really wanted to take it down there is nothing anyone could do. They just turn a blind eye to it because it helps promote their products.
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#30  Edited By dagas
@Riboflavin said:

" @tobygw: Since they stole footage, they are assholes, but unless you filed for a copyright on that video, which I am not sure you could anyway, I don't think broke any laws. Neither of you owned the original copyrights anyway. 
 

 taken from wikipedia "  In all countries that are members of the Berne Convention, copyright is automatic and need not be obtained through official registration with any government office."    
 
You have not needed to file for copyright in the US since 1989. 
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#31  Edited By PrivateIronTFU
@dagas said:
" @Riboflavin said:

" @tobygw: Since they stole footage, they are assholes, but unless you filed for a copyright on that video, which I am not sure you could anyway, I don't think broke any laws. Neither of you owned the original copyrights anyway. 
 

 taken from wikipedia "  In all countries that are members of the Berne Convention, copyright is automatic and need not be obtained through official registration with any government office."     You have not needed to file for copyright in the US since 1989.  "
I'm pretty sure that only applies to intellectual property. If somebody uses copyrighted materials to produce their own video, they can't really copyright it. As is my understanding of copyright law.
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coaxmetal

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#32  Edited By coaxmetal
@crusader8463 said:
" @Riboflavin:  Not really. If Activsion or Nintendo saw it and really wanted to take it down there is nothing anyone could do. They just turn a blind eye to it because it helps promote their products. "
Well, I mean, it probably falls under fair use, and that could be used as a defense were it taken to court. However, you are right that they could just have it taken down, since youtube and most parties involved would like to avoid a lawsuit, even if there is a good chance they would win.
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Bones8677

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#33  Edited By Bones8677
@The_Laughing_Man said:
" @tobygw said:

" @BulletproofMonk: Any part of the video that takes place in the pokemon world is directly taken from ours. You can see that their text boxes look different since they are actually just photoshopped images covering up our original dialogue.  We also edited the character's color to be black, that is not what it normally ends. And finally to confirm any doubt of this at the very end of the videos you can see that we very discretely edited a scavenger icon onto the computer monitor. I guess they didn't notice this and forgot to remove it. "

You cant do anything. Since you do not own the original stuff. Unless you own a copyright on the video. Which you can not do since you do not own pokemon or COD. You can do nothing but troll their videos.  So no, It breaks no laws at all. "
Yeah what he said.
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renmckormack

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#34  Edited By renmckormack

I like these questions.   Technically there are a few different elements of intellectual property at play (assuming you are in the US) while the Berne convention has been "adopted" here, not all of the principals have been.   To paint with a broad brush however, both of these works must face two hurdles.   First, do the mashup videos violate trademark protection of the respective trademark owners?   The test being does the use of the trademarked call of duty insignias etc. and the Pokémon stuff create marketplace confusion, such as if UI as a consumer were looking for Pokémon, as in the actual Pokémon trademark holder and instead i found this video.   The short answer to that is no, since both videos are paddy.   It’s not the same as me making Coca Cola cans to confuse shoppers into buying my brand instead of coke.   The second question is whether both videos violate US copyright laws.   Both most certainly do at first glance.   Parody or mashup videos must obtain permission from the respective copyright owners.   You must obtain a license in order to use copy written material that does not belong to you.   In the US you can attain copyright simply by being the first to create something (there are no requirements of novelty etc. and you do not need to register, until you want to file suit).   However, both videos have a strong protection under the US copyright law as "fair use" i.e. parody.   Fair use principals basically say, that you can use others copy written materials if you limit your use to certain acts for example criticism or parody.   If fair use did not exist, you would not be able to review a book or movie since the review obviously entails the use of scenes from the movie or portions of the book.   The big test again is whether the fair use parody usurps the market for the original copyright holder, or more simply will Pokémon and activision lose customers by watching your videos.   The answer is probably no, the video is a different product than a game or the Pokémon cartoon.   

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Fontan

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#35  Edited By Fontan

In nature, nothing is created or destroyed, everything is copied.

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tobygw

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#36  Edited By tobygw

Well regardless to however it turns out legally, I just posted a comment on the video outing it for stealing our content and it already has 16 thumbs up which makes me feel somewhat satisfied since it will pop up to the top now and everyone will see it. They will probably go all communist on it though and delete it when they see it though. :( 
 
EDIT: 46 thumbs up now :)

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Three0neFive

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#37  Edited By Three0neFive

to be fair, both videos suffer from trying-too-hard-itis

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minus_273

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#38  Edited By minus_273

I dont think you own anything in that video of yours, sorry.  Nintendo on the other hand could probably have both of your shut down. 

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dbz1995

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#39  Edited By dbz1995

Yours is awesome.Theres is not. I see no copyright infringement.

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cjmabry

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#40  Edited By cjmabry

Regardless of if it gets taken down or not, you are making them a great deal of money just by posting it here and by all of the people that will watch it now. 
 
But I agree in the fact that you need to get it taken down.

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DetectiveSpecial

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#41  Edited By DetectiveSpecial

Legal questions are awesome. 
Be aware that, in the U.S., you can actually get fined for giving legal advice if you haven't passed the bar exam for your state. In some states it carries the same penalty as impersonating a police officer.  

@Garfield518 said:

" I'm loving everyone giving copyright law comments, when they're all wrong.  Everything published on the internet is given automatic copyright protection, and can only be disputed against, not for.  Copyright infringers can still be held liable if they take credit for things they did not create, in this case, the stripped gameplay.  All of the Pokeman images fall under fair use.  The video can easily be taken down if you properly flag it, or contact Youtube/Machinima. "
I haven't taken the bar, and I'm not a lawyer - but this one seems to be the closest to an actual legal response.
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#42  Edited By CL60
@wolf_blitzer85 said:
" How are they making money off of this? I mean if they packaged DVDs and were selling this off Amazon sure, but these just look like Youtube videos. Is there some way to make money off of those that I don't know about? That is a bummer that these dudes jacked your idea and all, but considering your original video is essentially a bunch of copyrighted material to begin with, I fail to see why you're so adamant about enforcing copyright laws when you don't really own most of the source material to begin with. "
Ad Revenue. 
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Scooper

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#43  Edited By Scooper

I have no sympathy for you or them.

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BlastedAsh

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#44  Edited By BlastedAsh

Youtube partnership program is always in-sync with google adsense. Adsense mainly works on getting advertisements on  websites but due to youtube it's now possible to feature these ads on individual partnered videos, Youtube Partners actually have it better since they have a 3 strike system. With Google Adsense on websites the moment you are suspected to have broken the TOS or copyright laws all your earnings will be permanently refunded and account suspended, even if it was a false positive. 
HazardCinema made significant revenue from parts of our intellectual property which was created by us (Me and tobygw), this is however illigal because we have made it very clear to them in previous private messages that we did not want our content on their channel. Since they progressed to upload parts of our intelectual property it makes them fall under significant copyright rulings. True some people say that the images and such are belongings to Nintendo and Activision however the video environment was brought up from a 100% made out of scratch engine and our video provides free marketing to the game companies (and some fair usage acts stay true on our side as well), these companies have avoided a response demanding strict copyright enforcement on such videos, our Pokemon CoD Style video is in no-way illigal - Hell even FourZeroTwo the InfinityWard public relations guy stated his approval of our video on his personal twitter :)
 
~Ash from BlastedRoof
 Yuss!! First thread post ever on this very nice Jquery / ajax filled php powered forum :P

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gamer_152

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#45  Edited By gamer_152  Moderator

Technically it wasn't legal for you to make your video in the first place, but there's no doubt that this is a situation of straight-up common theft, it's a shame to see someone work hard on something and have their work ripped off like this.

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MaddProdigy

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#46  Edited By MaddProdigy
@tobygw:  Looks like someone jacked parts of your video. Nothing you can do man.
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Ragdrazi

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#47  Edited By Ragdrazi

And are you somehow under the impression that you're the first people to do the whole another video game but it's actually Pokemon meme?

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tsolless

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#48  Edited By tsolless

I really love it when people take something copyrighted and make something "funny" about it or change it in some when, and when someone else comes along and "steals" their ideas, they are so quick to yell and scream about copyrights. "Original content, do not steal!" No, no it`s not, you stole the idea as well.

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Synthballs

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#49  Edited By Synthballs

Have you been on YouTube? The place is a copyright clusterfuck. More illegal videos on it then the pirate bay.

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Aronman789

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#50  Edited By Aronman789

I like the BLOPS one better.