'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' to be Repealed?

I'm not an American but I follow the news because of how it can impact my own countries politics (Canada). Anyhow, a judge in California found the 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' policy to be unconstitutional. The policy forbids the military from inquiring whether anyone in the military is gay, but gives them the power to discharge those who are discovered to be gay. 
  
Personally I think that it's a great thing that the policy is starting to come under fire.

RIVERSIDE, Calif. — A federal judge in Southern California on Thursday declared the U.S. military's ban on openly gay service members unconstitutional.

U.S. District Judge Virginia Phillips granted a request for an injunction halting the government's "don't ask, don't tell" policy for gays in the military.

Phillips said the policy doesn't help military readiness and instead has a "direct and deleterious effect" on the armed services.

The lawsuit was the biggest legal test of the law in recent years and came amid promises by President Barack Obama that he will work to repeal the policy.

Government lawyers argued Phillips lacked the authority to issue a nationwide injunction and the issue should be decided by Congress.

The injunction was sought by the Log Cabin Republicans, a 19,000-member group that includes current and former military members.

Government lawyers argued that Phillips lacked the authority to issue a nationwide injunction and Congress should decide the policy's fate.

The U.S. House voted in May to repeal the policy, and the Senate is expected to address the issue this summer.

"Don't ask, don't tell" prohibits the military from asking about the sexual orientation of service members but requires discharge of those who acknowledge being gay or are discovered engaging in homosexual activity, even in the privacy of their own homes off base.

Log Cabin Republicans said more than 13,500 service members have been fired since 1994.

Attorney Dan Woods, who represents the group, contended in closing arguments of the nonjury trial that the policy violates gay military members' rights to free speech, due process and open association.

He also argued that the policy damages the military by forcing it to reject talented people as the country struggles to find recruits in the midst of a war.

U.S. Department of Justice attorney Paul G. Freeborne argued that the policy debate is political and the issue should be decided by Congress rather than in court.

Six military officers who were discharged under the policy testified during the trial. A decorated Air Force officer testified that he was let go after his peers snooped through his personal e-mail in Iraq.

Lawyers also submitted remarks by Obama stating "don't ask, don't tell" weakens national security.

Of course it's fucking unconstitutional, same as outlawing gay marriage.

Amen.  People may criticize Obama for being slow to act on repealing don't ask don't tell, but he's going about it the right way.  Both Clinton and Obama promised to repeal it.  Clinton was brash and impatient, and no one was ready to act on it.  Obama has sculpted a cabinet and political environment where it's a real possibility.

I think it should be repealed as well, it creates a stigma around being homosexual.

That whole policy didn't make a lot of sense to me. I openly encourage that the military do not discharge people who have different sexual orientation (that being homosexual) if it doesn't affect the mission. We're going into the 21st century and beginning to become more open, understanding, liberal and accepting of homosexuality and bisexuality. 
 
Can someone inform me if the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy was the beginning of allowing a person who is gay to join the army?

I always thought 'Don't ask, don't tell'  was a blanket statement for ALL sexuality. Like the OP, I'm not American, so I may be a little ill informed. 
 
So they can't ask if you're gay or straight, but if they find out you're gay, you're out? Seems strange. So a gay soldier doesn't rock the usual chest pumping bravado in relation to a Jessica Biel pic, but I'm sure homeboy fires his gun in the same direction, and shells enemies like a good soldier should (or, is ordered to do). 
 
Shiiiiit, America is so strange and confusing to me sometimes... like indoor plumbing.

" I always thought 'Don't ask, don't tell'  was a blanket statement for ALL sexuality. Like the OP, I'm not American, so I may be a little ill informed.   So they can't ask if you're gay or straight, but if they find out you're gay, you're out? Seems strange. So a gay soldier doesn't rock the usual chest pumping bravado in relation to a Jessica Biel pic, but I'm sure homeboy fires his gun in the same direction, and shells enemies like a good soldier should (or, is ordered to do).   Shiiiiit, America is so strange and confusing to me sometimes... like indoor plumbing. "

" figures. the socialists mooselimbs can't beat our boys in a straight up fight so now they're trying to weaken our military with gayness. make it so our troops can't get a good nights rest without worrying about your homo bunkmate crawling into the sack with you offering you massages. i see through your tricks obongo! TLB (typical lieberal behavior) "

I'm in the military.  You're not allowed to be gay in the military.  The don't ask, don't tell policy wasn't hey if you are gay you can come join, it was simply instated that if you are in and you are gay, don't tell anyone and we won't ask.  But if you come out and say you are, which we had 3 guys do while I was in iraq.  You're out.  They may fire their gun the same way as everyone else, but they can also be thinking about other things about their battle buddy that doesn't need to be a concern in battle.  It makes people feel uncomfortable if you're sharing the same small connex with someone and you know they are gay.  That person sees you change and everything.  Would you want to change in front of another guy knowing he is gay?  Or using the same shower room has him.  Also, it's not uncommon for guys to rape guys in the military.  It's the same concept as to why women can't be in the infantry.  You don't need the complication of having female soldiers out in the middle of battle getting pregnant, and trust me it happens enough as it is now.

" @tsolless:  Who knows, maybe someday America can quit with the whole "Stop Loss" shit by just accepting willing participants into a war. The only way you can really weaken your troops is by a draft. "

I don't understand how this is legal? 
 
I mean, I kinda get what they're going for I guess. Like it or not, homosexuality is seen as a weakeness by many nations that the US has issues with, and obviously you want your military to be feared and not, ya know, seen as pansies (I'm making no comment here, simply saying the view of other nations and that it will be used by them to motivate their troops and lowering the demoralizing effect), but how the fuck is this legal? Isn't the US all about freedom and shit? 
 
At least let them load artillery or cook or something, fuck.

" I'm in the military.  You're not allowed to be gay in the military.  The don't ask, don't tell policy wasn't hey if you are gay you can come join, it was simply instated that if you are in and you are gay, don't tell anyone and we won't ask.  But if you come out and say you are, which we had 3 guys do while I was in iraq.  You're out.  They may fire their gun the same way as everyone else, but they can also be thinking about other things about their battle buddy that doesn't need to be a concern in battle.  It makes people feel uncomfortable if you're sharing the same small connex with someone and you know they are gay.  That person sees you change and everything.  Would you want to change in front of another guy knowing he is gay?  Or using the same shower room has him.  Also, it's not uncommon for guys to rape guys in the military.  It's the same concept as to why women can't be in the infantry.  You don't need the complication of having female soldiers out in the middle of battle getting pregnant, and trust me it happens enough as it is now. "

"You don't need the complication of having female soldiers out in the middle of battle getting pregnant, and trust me it happens enough as it is now. "

" @elko84 said:

" I'm in the military.  You're not allowed to be gay in the military.  The don't ask, don't tell policy wasn't hey if you are gay you can come join, it was simply instated that if you are in and you are gay, don't tell anyone and we won't ask.  But if you come out and say you are, which we had 3 guys do while I was in iraq.  You're out.  They may fire their gun the same way as everyone else, but they can also be thinking about other things about their battle buddy that doesn't need to be a concern in battle.  It makes people feel uncomfortable if you're sharing the same small connex with someone and you know they are gay.  That person sees you change and everything.  Would you want to change in front of another guy knowing he is gay?  Or using the same shower room has him.  Also, it's not uncommon for guys to rape guys in the military.  It's the same concept as to why women can't be in the infantry.  You don't need the complication of having female soldiers out in the middle of battle getting pregnant, and trust me it happens enough as it is now. "

Why would a gay men be going gaga over every guy he comes across? Don't ask don't tell comes across as homosexual paranoia in 2010.  "

Firs of all, I am thrilled to see a topic that is not about the subscription service. Second, that is fucking wonderful. I hate segregation.

Lol, you guys all have your hearts in the right place but I really wouldn't use the word homosexual. If you do, at least put it in quotes. "Homosexual" is a term used by those against LGB identities. The word denies romantic feelings and emphasizes sex. It also has a very negative clinical history.

" @FourWude: Not in the middle of battle, but on the battlefield.  I don't expect anyone not in the military to understand any of this. "

Again I don't expect anyone never in the military to understand this.  Experience it first hand and then tell me how you feel.  So, enjoy the freedoms you have while the rest of us fight for them.  Also, I'm not saying I agree with not having gays in the military.  I personally don't have an issue with it, hell my sister is lesbian.  I'm not gay, so as long as they aren't coming on to me, it's all fine.  I'm just saying how the majority of the military looks at it.  Most male soldiers would find it uncomfortable to know a gay man was around them.  Others, like me, wouldn't care.

So the problem is basically that there's too many, whether they're gay/straight or male/female, horny soldiers?

" @elko84 said:

" @FourWude: Not in the middle of battle, but on the battlefield.  I don't expect anyone not in the military to understand any of this. "

Yeah, well if you dirty, horny, heterosexual men kept your penis' in your pants, maybe these women wouldn't be getting pregnant. It takes two to Tango, sonny. "

" @FourWude said:

" @elko84 said:

" @FourWude: Not in the middle of battle, but on the battlefield.  I don't expect anyone not in the military to understand any of this. "

Yeah, well if you dirty, horny, heterosexual men kept your penis' in your pants, maybe these women wouldn't be getting pregnant. It takes two to Tango, sonny. "

That's true it does take two.  Saying the men have to keep it in their pants sounds like you are blaming the males.  I can tell you now the women are just as bad, and it's generally the women that initiate the process first. "

" So, enjoy the freedoms you have while the rest of us fight for them.  "

Ooh, socio-political commentary..... touchy!

" @elko84 said:

" So, enjoy the freedoms you have while the rest of us fight for them.  "

Can't be doing too good a job of it, because everytime I check this nation gets less free by the day.   
 
DING DING!!!
 

Ooh, socio-political commentary..... touchy!

"

" So the problem is basically that there's too many, whether they're gay/straight or male/female, horny soldiers? "

What elko84 is trying to say is that rape is rampant in the military.

" What elko84 is trying to say is that rape is rampant in the military. "

" @elko84 said:

" So, enjoy the freedoms you have while the rest of us fight for them.  "

Can't be doing too good a job of it, because everytime I check this nation gets less free by the day.   
 
DING DING!!!
 

Ooh, socio-political commentary..... touchy!

"

" What elko84 is trying to say is that rape is rampant in the military. "

Good. Can't happen soon enough. 
 
The fact that America prohibits able-bodied citizens from serving their country just because they're gay is fucking disgraceful. Seriously, it's embarrassing. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to serve. None. 
 
Well...no good reason, anyway. I know there's the whole "OMG WHAT IF HE LOOKS AT MY WEINER IN THE SHOWER LATER" thing.

" Amen.  People may criticize Obama for being slow to act on repealing don't ask don't tell, but he's going about it the right way.  Both Clinton and Obama promised to repeal it.  Clinton was brash and impatient, and no one was ready to act on it.  Obama has sculpted a cabinet and political environment where it's a real possibility. "

It's completely unconstitutional, and I'm glad it's under fire. To those of you using the old "Well, I don't wanna get raped or anything" line, don't flatter yourselves.

" It's completely unconstitutional, and I'm glad it's under fire. To those of you using the old "Well, I don't wanna get raped or anything" line, don't flatter yourselves. "

And what ground is there for discharging homosexual people from the army to begin with?
 
@elko84 said:

" I'm in the military.  You're not allowed to be gay in the military.  The don't ask, don't tell policy wasn't hey if you are gay you can come join, it was simply instated that if you are in and you are gay, don't tell anyone and we won't ask.  But if you come out and say you are, which we had 3 guys do while I was in iraq.  You're out.  They may fire their gun the same way as everyone else, but they can also be thinking about other things about their battle buddy that doesn't need to be a concern in battle.  It makes people feel uncomfortable if you're sharing the same small connex with someone and you know they are gay.  That person sees you change and everything.  Would you want to change in front of another guy knowing he is gay?  Or using the same shower room has him.  Also, it's not uncommon for guys to rape guys in the military.  It's the same concept as to why women can't be in the infantry.  You don't need the complication of having female soldiers out in the middle of battle getting pregnant, and trust me it happens enough as it is now. "

I don't understand the big difference between don't ask don't tell and how the army operates with straight soldiers currently. You can be gay or straight and be in the military and your sexual orientation is not supposed to interfere with your duties. Gay or straight, I don't care what your orientation is, as long as you do your job. 
 
I personally believe that don't ask, don't tell being repealed will not open the floodgates of homosexuals joining the military and the whole operation in Afghanistan turning into some kind of low rent bang bus. If anything, it will allow those hard-working soldiers on the front lines of battle to not have to worry about someone finding out they are gay, when they are tasked with a more important mission, keeping themselves and the country safe.

Oh, good. Being in a group with the Saudi's, Yemen, Syria and Iran doesn't make you look much like a bastion of freedom and democracy.

" And what ground is there for discharging homosexual people from the army to begin with?
 
@elko84 said:

" I'm in the military.  You're not allowed to be gay in the military.  The don't ask, don't tell policy wasn't hey if you are gay you can come join, it was simply instated that if you are in and you are gay, don't tell anyone and we won't ask.  But if you come out and say you are, which we had 3 guys do while I was in iraq.  You're out.  They may fire their gun the same way as everyone else, but they can also be thinking about other things about their battle buddy that doesn't need to be a concern in battle.  It makes people feel uncomfortable if you're sharing the same small connex with someone and you know they are gay.  That person sees you change and everything.  Would you want to change in front of another guy knowing he is gay?  Or using the same shower room has him.  Also, it's not uncommon for guys to rape guys in the military.  It's the same concept as to why women can't be in the infantry.  You don't need the complication of having female soldiers out in the middle of battle getting pregnant, and trust me it happens enough as it is now. "

I'd happily share a room with my gay friend, and I'm completely straight. I'm not in the military, but I'm assuming you have some form of trust in your fellow soldiers, right? Why should that be different just because they're gay? How does their ability to do anything change? Why would they suddenly be unfit for war just because they prefer men over women? Acting like homosexual people would bang anything they lay their eyes on is, quite honestly, insulting and makes people seem very narrow minded. We're in the 21st century here,  people. Why is it so hard for people to accept gay people? They are just humans. Just like everyone else in the world. "

so, does it mean they will ask if someone is gay when signing up, or does it mean it is ok to be gay when signing up?
I say, if you think a bullet fired from the rifle of a gay man won't fly straight... volunteer to stand in front of the firing line.  Survivors will then be asked for further opinions.

I can't believe people haven't looked further than skin deep at this.  There is another reason we have don't ask/don't tell and it's sadly because of the rampant homophobia that saturates our nations.  If a soldier makes fun of another soldier because of sexual orientation, the offended soldier might not be so "battle friendly" the next time his help is needed.  The army is all about uniformity and openly being gay would create a lack of cohesion within a large percentage of soldiers, so they merely ask that you don't openly express it.  Same goes for straight people, because sexual is irrelevant to your job, which is a soldier 24/7.  If everyone was loving and understanding about sexual orientation, there would be no need for Don't Ask/Don't Tell. 
 
In short, the bill will be repealed when the mentality is right within our military.  I don't think lawmakers in California are able to discern when the time is right.

" I can't believe people haven't looked further than skin deep at this.  There is another reason we have don't ask/don't tell and it's sadly because of the rampant homophobia that saturates our nations.  If a soldier makes fun of another soldier because of sexual orientation, the offended soldier might not be so "battle friendly" the next time his help is needed.  The army is all about uniformity and openly being gay would create a lack of cohesion within a large percentage of soldiers, so they merely ask that you don't openly express it.  Same goes for straight people, because sexual is irrelevant to your job, which is a soldier 24/7.  If everyone was loving and understanding about sexual orientation, there would be no need for Don't Ask/Don't Tell.  In short, the bill will be repealed when the mentality is right within our military.  I don't think lawmakers in California are able to discern when the time is right. "

" @Rockdalf: yes, i too find the best way to solve problems is to sit around, twiddle my thumbs, and kinda hope everything takes care of itself. "

" Again I don't expect anyone never in the military to understand this.  Experience it first hand and then tell me how you feel.  So, enjoy the freedoms you have while the rest of us fight for them.  Also, I'm not saying I agree with not having gays in the military.  I personally don't have an issue with it, hell my sister is lesbian.  I'm not gay, so as long as they aren't coming on to me, it's all fine.  I'm just saying how the majority of the military looks at it.  Most male soldiers would find it uncomfortable to know a gay man was around them.  Others, like me, wouldn't care. "

"Said from the person posting nigh-anonymously on a gaming forum who probably isn't old enough to vote or serve their country.  If you were an adult, capable of intelligent debate, you would criticize my points, rather than setting up a straw man argument for me to try and tackle.  Also, sorry if I set up a little logical fallacy there when criticizing you after you tried one on me first : ). "

@TheSeductiveMoose: Actually, they weren't, or they operated their own form of DADT. They professed to hate the practice. You're thinking of the Sacred Band of Thebes, who interestingly were instrumental in defeating the Spartans in several key battles and establishing Theban independence from Sparta. "