EMP and You.

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Lind_L_Taylor

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Edited By Lind_L_Taylor

 Last night, I went out with a friend & somehow we got into the conversation of Armageddon.  He was talking about how he wouldn't have to worry about it with nukes hitting all of the USA.  Then I told him: We only need to be hit with ONE nuke.  Right above Kansas. Near space. You won't see it. You won't hear it. The EMP will fry all the cars & the whole power grid. Take down all the Intel satellites AND our enemies already know it!  He damn near shit his pants...Everybody should know this. And perhaps if enough know it, somebody will do something about it, if possible, like EMP hardening the Grid at least.  This is what makes North Korea such a threat. They don't have to build a ton of nukes.  They just have to get one inside the country or off the coast, launch it over Kansas so the satellites can't figure out where it came from (aka the Return to Sender of a retaliatory nuclear strike).  Obviously, the USA won't fire nukes as a counterstrike. What would be the point?   So what are the results?  One fairly cheap nuclear weapon, in return trillions of dollars in damage to the US infrastructure, fried grid & transportation.  Rolling back the USA by 150 years in time.  Even if we had a war with North Korea & we "won", nobody in the US would know about it!  Nor would they care!  They would be worrying about where their next meal was coming from.  The young, the old, & the sick would pay the ultimate price.
 
What's really disturbing is that I mind-blocked the whole thing & only thought to bring it up when he brought up the now obsolete total nuke war scenario.  Everyone needs to know about the Kansas Vulnerability.  'nuff said.

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Lind_L_Taylor

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#1  Edited By Lind_L_Taylor

 Last night, I went out with a friend & somehow we got into the conversation of Armageddon.  He was talking about how he wouldn't have to worry about it with nukes hitting all of the USA.  Then I told him: We only need to be hit with ONE nuke.  Right above Kansas. Near space. You won't see it. You won't hear it. The EMP will fry all the cars & the whole power grid. Take down all the Intel satellites AND our enemies already know it!  He damn near shit his pants...Everybody should know this. And perhaps if enough know it, somebody will do something about it, if possible, like EMP hardening the Grid at least.  This is what makes North Korea such a threat. They don't have to build a ton of nukes.  They just have to get one inside the country or off the coast, launch it over Kansas so the satellites can't figure out where it came from (aka the Return to Sender of a retaliatory nuclear strike).  Obviously, the USA won't fire nukes as a counterstrike. What would be the point?   So what are the results?  One fairly cheap nuclear weapon, in return trillions of dollars in damage to the US infrastructure, fried grid & transportation.  Rolling back the USA by 150 years in time.  Even if we had a war with North Korea & we "won", nobody in the US would know about it!  Nor would they care!  They would be worrying about where their next meal was coming from.  The young, the old, & the sick would pay the ultimate price.
 
What's really disturbing is that I mind-blocked the whole thing & only thought to bring it up when he brought up the now obsolete total nuke war scenario.  Everyone needs to know about the Kansas Vulnerability.  'nuff said.

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Skullo

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#2  Edited By Skullo

Well fuck~!

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animateria

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#3  Edited By animateria

I thought this was about the NFS:HP EMPs...

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AnAmericanPatriot

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#4  Edited By AnAmericanPatriot

LINK? NOT being a dick OR ANYTHING. Actually CURIOUS, and a Google SEARCH DIDN'T really turn up anything. DUNNO IF I'm googlin' WRONG.

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#5  Edited By memo
@animateria said:
" I thought this was about the NFS:HP EMPs... "
lmao so did I. :)
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#6  Edited By Skullo
@AnAmericanPatriot said:
" LINK? NOT being a dick OR ANYTHING. Actually CURIOUS, and a Google SEARCH DIDN'T really turn up anything. DUNNO IF I'm googlin' WRONG. "
Gonna call it, PLANT!
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AnAmericanPatriot

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#7  Edited By AnAmericanPatriot
@Skullo:  
WHAT do you MEAN by plant?
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#8  Edited By Sooperspy
@memo said:
" @animateria said:
" I thought this was about the NFS:HP EMPs... "
lmao so did I. :) "
I was also thinking it would.
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iam3green

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#9  Edited By iam3green

cool man. i know what you mean. a girl in my class was just talking about nukes. she said how her parents are talking about a plan if a nuke goes off. she also said how her father has a plan for everything, including zombie outbreak.

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ArchScabby

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#10  Edited By ArchScabby
@Redbullet685 said:
" @memo said:
" @animateria said:
" I thought this was about the NFS:HP EMPs... "
lmao so did I. :) "
I was also thinking it would. "
I am disappointed it isn't actually.
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#11  Edited By Jrad

Shit, dude. You shouldn't be worried about nukes. If North Korea has the capability to send an ultra-heavy nuclear weapon thousands of miles straight to our country, you know what else they can send? Fucking ninjas. Ninjas riding ICBMs, no less. One ninja and Barack Obama's dead. Another and there goes the VP.
What we need to do is stall for time. We need to keep Kim Jong-il focused on South Korea while we train our own counter-ninja forces. Only then can there be peace.

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#12  Edited By Durandal377
Faraday cages. Get you one. 
Also, I doubt anyone aside from maybe Russia or China actually has a warhead large enough to "blanket" the entire continental US. Not to mention that I doubt that North Korea even has missiles with the required range to hit that sweet spot over Kansas.
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#13  Edited By Skytylz
@iam3green said:
" cool man. i know what you mean. a girl in my class was just talking about nukes. she said how her parents are talking about a plan if a nuke goes off. she also said how her father has a plan for everything, including zombie outbreak. "
Did they reserve their place in the vault yet?
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#14  Edited By jonnyboy

Anyone wanting to know the effect of the lights going out, the internet dying, random electric appliances frying and the heating occasionally shutting down, could come and live with me for a few days, I could market it as 'The EMP Experience'.

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iam3green

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#15  Edited By iam3green
@Skytylz said:
" @iam3green said:
" cool man. i know what you mean. a girl in my class was just talking about nukes. she said how her parents are talking about a plan if a nuke goes off. she also said how her father has a plan for everything, including zombie outbreak. "
Did they reserve their place in the vault yet? "
i don't think so. we all laughed at it because you know if a nuke went off people would be dead.
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Lind_L_Taylor

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#16  Edited By Lind_L_Taylor
@Durandal377 said:
" Faraday cages. Get you one. Also, I doubt anyone aside from maybe Russia or China actually has a warhead large enough to "blanket" the entire continental US. Not to mention that I doubt that North Korea even has missiles with the required range to hit that sweet spot over Kansas. "
it doesn't have to be that big.  The EMP radius is based on height.  The higher up you go, the larger the radius.
EMP travels extremely fast & wide. And there isn't much that can stop it other than some sort of EMP shielding.
Lead I presume.  Haven't looked at how the shielding works. All I know is we don't have it.
 
@AnAmericanPatriot said:
" LINK? NOT being a dick OR ANYTHING. Actually CURIOUS, and a Google SEARCH DIDN'T really turn up anything. DUNNO IF I'm googlin' WRONG. "
Just go buy the book "One Second After" from Amazon.  I think it just came out this year or late last year.  Let's
face it.  It's the maximum amount of damage that can be done at the minimal amount of cost.  Right now, if it were
to happen, my biggest hope would be that aimed too high & the Earth's magnetic shield would block the EMP from
hitting the surface...The satellites would still be fried more than likely.
 
@jonnyboy said:
" Anyone wanting to know the effect of the lights going out, the internet dying, random electric appliances frying and the heating occasionally shutting down, could come and live with me for a few days, I could market it as 'The EMP Experience'. "
You go a few weeks without power after a hurricane & you'll also feel some trauma.  Imagine a Lights Out scenario
nationwide.  Man it would suck.
 
@iam3green said:
" cool man. i know what you mean. a girl in my class was just talking about nukes. she said how her parents are talking about a plan if a nuke goes off. she also said how her father has a plan for everything, including zombie outbreak. "
I'm not sure that's the best idea. You ever heard of the Golden Horde?  That's where all the people in a
powerless city just roam out into the country to eat & take everything out there in order to survive.  Unless
you're in the Crystal Palace & armed to the teeth, not sure it'll help you.  Best bet I can think of is to have
a boat ready & sail directly to South America & if you thought ahead, perhaps own some property down
there so you don't get blocked by their militia.  I think the hardest thing that can be done is to stay in place &
survive it & ultimately that's what most people will try to do, but I would think best way to survive is to 
get away from the "dead zone" of no power.  It could take a generation to restore, assuming it ever
gets restored.
 
@Skullo said:
" @AnAmericanPatriot said:
" LINK? NOT being a dick OR ANYTHING. Actually CURIOUS, and a Google SEARCH DIDN'T really turn up anything. DUNNO IF I'm googlin' WRONG. "
Gonna call it, PLANT! "
LOL!  It's public information.  It's just not well known for some reason.  I myself tend to block it
out mentally.  Once the power went out in my place, I almost shit my pants from being startled. LOL.  I
went & checked outside to make sure cars were still moving before getting my peace of mind
back.
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#17  Edited By meteora

I don't think the EMP radius from a nuclear weapon can cover the entirety of the United States. Maybe a significant proportion. Doesn't the EMP depend on the size of the nuke?

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#18  Edited By Xeiphyer
This is so incredibly flawed.
 
 One EMP wouldn't blanket the entire USA.  Plus those satellites are capable of detecting the incoming nuke and relaying the incoming trajectory to the USA.
 
Not to mention that the DPRK (Thats North Korea) is on a watch list obviously. If they were to launch a long range nuclear missile on a sub-space trajectory towards the USA, don't you think the USA would notice? 
 
Also, its not like all the american satellites are sitting directly above the country, they are all over the place, so they would never lose their intelligence network. 
 
In the 5-8 minutes it takes the Nuke to leave the DPRK, the USA can scramble their specially designed Missile defense systems to intercept it, or if they need to, return fire well before the missile reaches its target destination.
 
Seriously, I know you want Kansas to feel important or whatever, but its not like the states sits around with its finger up its ass waiting for their country to get attacked. I hear they have a few dollars spent a year on defence. You need to get some facts before you go making outrageous claims that a single EMP would destroy the entire countries infrastructure. An EMP would take out a few cities at most, and any attack done towards the USA would definitely result in them getting a few dozen nukes all over their country and wiping them off the planet. The USA has tons of networks of satellites and ground based radar detection systems (Some are in Canada even), and presumably the Nuclear launch sites all over the states are radiation proof and designed to be able to launch counterattacks before, and/or after an attack on the USA. And that is why Mutual Destruction is a thing. Nobody goes launching nukes without every other major country knowing.
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#19  Edited By csl316

i saw EMP and nuke and instantly thought of SC2 ghosts

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Lind_L_Taylor

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#20  Edited By Lind_L_Taylor
@Meteora said:

" I don't think the EMP radius from a nuclear weapon can cover the entirety of the United States. Maybe a significant proportion. Doesn't the EMP depend on the size of the nuke? "

Nope.  It only has to be a basic 1 kiloton nuke.  An EMP force is sort of like 
gamma rays or light.  It just flashes out in all directions smashing into anything
& everything until it hits the earth or atmosphere.  The shape of the
Earth contoured with the blast is what prevents it from spreading all
over a larger section of the planet.  If Earth didn't have a magnetic field
then a nuclear blast far enough out in space could slam EMP into an entire 
cross section of the planet from north pole to south pole & the part of
the sphere facing the blast up to the facing edges of the sphere, but 
that can't happen.  (edit: typo corrected).
 
EMP is one of those things where you go back & watch something like
Escape from LA, where they flick on a bunch of EMP satellites at the
end of the movie.  We don't have that, but it's not really needed either. 
But it really bothers me.  Especially since Escape from New York started
by some terrorists flying a plane into buildings in Manhatten!
 
Most other non-Western countries may not have as much reliance on
electricity as we do.  So the impact may not be as strong as it will be
for the West.  The US has become so reliant on the Grid for the past several
decades, combine that with every major corporation trying to save a buck
by, say, centralizing our food in only a few locations in the country & 
outsource our industrial strength to other countries, capitalist greed has
basically created a recipe for disaster.  Saved a buck to stretch to thin
& no protection from unseen militaristic threats.  A second after such an
EMP blast & it's "Welcome to the year 1850."
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#21  Edited By meptron

don't worry, just pick up a gun with iron sights and you're good to go.

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HS21

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#22  Edited By HS21
@AnAmericanPatriot said:
" @Skullo:  WHAT do you MEAN by plant? "
Blatant PLANT right here.
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#23  Edited By HandsomeDead

Wasn't this Revolver Ocelot's plan in MGS2?

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#24  Edited By Popogeejo

Isn't this kind of a non-issue any way? In theory it can be done but there's no incentive to do it for those few who can do it.
NK has no means to put a nuke in the wrong place, let alone the right place and no other country has any interest in doing something like that to the US. Any terrorist organisation would have the same problem as NK.

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#25  Edited By SeriouslyNow
@Xeiphyer: Exactly.  One nuke is likely to be shot down before it even reaches the coastline.  
 
 Lind, as usual, you're utterly and completely misinformed.  Military equipment (well most of it, including NORAD and Pentagon data centers, let alone many commercial power grids are hardened against EMP attack. 
 
The US, via NATO has tracking stattions and bases all over the western and eastern world and they'd have many early warning systems already in place.
 
Oh and Faraday Cages?  LOL They dampen against electricity, not radiation attacks based on the Compton Effect.   You need LEAD lining and specifically designed redundant circuitry to stave off that kind of attack.
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#26  Edited By ch13696

Fuck North Korea. All we need to do is sneak into North Korea, distract the guards at where he lives, get one of us into his place and just shoot him. It's that easy. Walk back out like nothing happened. They won't know who killed him or what. We will practically save North Korea from their shitty government.

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Lind_L_Taylor

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#27  Edited By Lind_L_Taylor
@Xeiphyer said:

" This is so incredibly flawed.   One EMP wouldn't blanket the entire USA.  Plus those satellites are capable of detecting the incoming nuke and relaying the incoming trajectory to the USA.  Not to mention that the DPRK (Thats North Korea) is on a watch list obviously. If they were to launch a long range nuclear missile on a sub-space trajectory towards the USA, don't you think the USA would notice?   Also, its not like all the american satellites are sitting directly above the country, they are all over the place, so they would never lose their intelligence network.   In the 5-8 minutes it takes the Nuke to leave the DPRK, the USA can scramble their specially designed Missile defense systems to intercept it, or if they need to, return fire well before the missile reaches its target destination.  Seriously, I know you want Kansas to feel important or whatever, but its not like the states sits around with its finger up its ass waiting for their country to get attacked. I hear they have a few dollars spent a year on defence. You need to get some facts before you go making outrageous claims that a single EMP would destroy the entire countries infrastructure. An EMP would take out a few cities at most, and any attack done towards the USA would definitely result in them getting a few dozen nukes all over their country and wiping them off the planet. The USA has tons of networks of satellites and ground based radar detection systems (Some are in Canada even), and presumably the Nuclear launch sites all over the states are radiation proof and designed to be able to launch counterattacks before, and/or after an attack on the USA. And that is why Mutual Destruction is a thing. Nobody goes launching nukes without every other major country knowing. "

Sorry I was out for Thanksgiving & didn't have a chance to reply
to this.   First off: NO ONE is going to fire a nuke at us.  If the Kansas
Vulnerability was ever to be implemented, it would be done from
INSIDE the USA or near the coastal border.  The entire point of it is
to make it happen without being able to blame a single source as the fault.  
Didn't I already mention that there would not be a Returnable Address
for you or the American people's nuclear bad-assery??

Sure NK or Iran may take the flak for it, but it won't mean that they did it.
 
What the US can or cannot do in the event of an EMP attack is
 besides the point. Why? Because you will be in the dark like
everybody else, whether or not the US can react to it.  Unless you
are part of the military structure.  The majority of us will not be.  So
some payback will be delivered to whoever but while you rah-rah on 
that, the rest of us will be foraging & scrounging.
 
I hope you're right.  I hope all this talk of EMP can't work. But are
you willing to bet everyone's life on it?  All the Govt needs to do is
harden the damn Grid.  They're crazy for not doing that.  They might
as well put up a bullseye that states: This is where you can do the 
most amount of damage for the least amount of effort.  Emp!
 
@Meptron said:

" don't worry, just pick up a gun with iron sights and you're good to go. "

LOL. Yeah.
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Lind_L_Taylor

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#28  Edited By Lind_L_Taylor
@SeriouslyNow said:
" @Xeiphyer: Exactly.  One nuke is likely to be shot down before it even reaches the coastline.     Lind, as usual, you're utterly and completely misinformed.  Military equipment (well most of it, including NORAD and Pentagon data centers, let alone many commercial power grids are hardened against EMP attack.   The US, via NATO has tracking stattions and bases all over the western and eastern world and they'd have many early warning systems already in place.  Oh and Faraday Cages?  LOL They dampen against electricity, not radiation attacks based on the Compton Effect.   You need LEAD lining and specifically designed redundant circuitry to stave off that kind of attack. "
Nah. I read a book called One Second After that details it. You
should probably read it.  I'm not worried about the damn military's
survival. I'd be more worried about my own safety.  The govt isn't
gonna help you in a crisis of this magnitude.  Sucks that faraday
cages don't work. Damn, I really liked that idea. :(
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#29  Edited By melcene

I thought that this thread was either going to be about The EMP or Fallout
 
That being said, I think I believe @Xeiphyer: over the OP.

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#30  Edited By RVonE

You should learn to stop worrying and love the bomb. 
  
  
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Lind_L_Taylor

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#31  Edited By Lind_L_Taylor

@melcene said:

" I thought that this thread was either going to be about The EMP or Fallout
 
That being said, I think I believe @Xeiphyer: over the OP. "

You're not paying attention!  Perhaps you should read some other
sources instead of taking one person's opinion over another?  I'm
trying to raise awareness, but you're free to remain blind to it if you
prefer.
 
Check out:  
http://science.howstuffworks.com/e-bomb4.htm 
 
Note the following from the link:
"
In the end, the most far-reaching effect of an e-bomb could be psychological. A full-scale EMP attack in a developed country would instantly bring modern life to a screeching halt. There would be plenty of survivors, but they would find themselves in a very different world. "
 
Having said that, I think there are idiots out there that simply refuse
to believe the obvious, even when the firm facts are put in front of
their faces!   It's analogous to people that don't believe in Global Warming.
They're either paid by Big Oil to rebuff it or, which I like to think: they are
like idiot frogs put in water that is slowly brought to a boil & they're too 
stupid to leap out before frying to death.  I guess they'd rather be with
Jesus eating roast beef & mash at the Lord's table than trying to survive 
or change things for the better.  Either they are right & things continue as
they were with no changes or they are wrong & they find themselves at the
Lord's table.  Nobody that IS actually right is given a chance if they have 
anything to say about it.  I call these people "Republicans" or ignoramuses. 
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SeriouslyNow

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#32  Edited By SeriouslyNow
@Lind_L_Taylor said:
" @SeriouslyNow said:
" @Xeiphyer: Exactly.  One nuke is likely to be shot down before it even reaches the coastline.     Lind, as usual, you're utterly and completely misinformed.  Military equipment (well most of it, including NORAD and Pentagon data centers, let alone many commercial power grids are hardened against EMP attack.   The US, via NATO has tracking stattions and bases all over the western and eastern world and they'd have many early warning systems already in place.  Oh and Faraday Cages?  LOL They dampen against electricity, not radiation attacks based on the Compton Effect.   You need LEAD lining and specifically designed redundant circuitry to stave off that kind of attack. "
Nah. I read a book called One Second After that details it. You should probably read it.  I'm not worried about the damn military's survival. I'd be more worried about my own safety.  The govt isn't gonna help you in a crisis of this magnitude.  Sucks that faraday cages don't work. Damn, I really liked that idea. :( "
Hey you know that reading thing you do, right?  Try actually reading more than one source of information.  Most commercial power providers are hardened against EMP effects.  EMP is something which is pretty common in power routing circuitry and can be caused by a transformer (not the the Michael Bayhem type, I'm not talking giant robots but rather giant power exchange circuits) overload.  As a result, most commercial power providers have to be able to deal with EMP via LEAD lined casings and failure redundant circuits (which means they have circuits which have multiple copies of the same components, but located in different places and configurations, so if one component or multiple components blow then others can immediately take up the slack and keep the power flowing).  
 
Of course I'm not surprised you don't understand that stuff.  You did, after all, think that a Faraday cage would deter EMP.
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Lind_L_Taylor

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#33  Edited By Lind_L_Taylor
@SeriouslyNow said:
" @Lind_L_Taylor said:
" @SeriouslyNow said:
" @Xeiphyer: Exactly.  One nuke is likely to be shot down before it even reaches the coastline.     Lind, as usual, you're utterly and completely misinformed.  Military equipment (well most of it, including NORAD and Pentagon data centers, let alone many commercial power grids are hardened against EMP attack.   The US, via NATO has tracking stattions and bases all over the western and eastern world and they'd have many early warning systems already in place.  Oh and Faraday Cages?  LOL They dampen against electricity, not radiation attacks based on the Compton Effect.   You need LEAD lining and specifically designed redundant circuitry to stave off that kind of attack. "
Nah. I read a book called One Second After that details it. You should probably read it.  I'm not worried about the damn military's survival. I'd be more worried about my own safety.  The govt isn't gonna help you in a crisis of this magnitude.  Sucks that faraday cages don't work. Damn, I really liked that idea. :( "
Hey you know that reading thing you do, right?  Try actually reading more than one source of information.  Most commercial power providers are hardened against EMP effects.  EMP is something which is pretty common in power routing circuitry and can be caused by a transformer (not the the Michael Bayhem type, I'm not talking giant robots but rather giant power exchange circuits) overload.  As a result, most commercial power providers have to be able to deal with EMP via LEAD lined casings and failure redundant circuits (which means they have circuits which have multiple copies of the same components, but located in different places and configurations, so if one component or multiple components blow then others can immediately take up the slack and keep the power flowing).    Of course I'm not surprised you don't understand that stuff.  You did, after all, think that a Faraday cage would deter EMP. "
I've heard two people mention Faraday cages & I have not looked
into EMP hardening myself. The only thing I know is that vacuum
tube technology is unaffected by it.  It would be nice to know if there
was a simple solution to rule it out.  There was also a news report
about Solar Flares acting up in 2012 that might cause the same thing
as EMP damage, knocking out power systems world wide. The
news reports said that it could cost a lot to repair the damage, if
it gets through the Earth's magnetic field.
 
I think you're crazy to dismiss the fact of what an EMP can do. Aside
from a nuclear blast that can cause it, blowing up a nuke in near space
over Kansas can produce a large enough EMP to take out power &
probably disable cars all over.  The way I see it, it's only a matter of time
before somebody tries to do the great "e-bomb" experiment over the 
US to see if it works.  I think it will work.
 
You can't drive your car from an EMP blast, how do you know the power
plants will remain working if nobody can drive coal or gas to the power
systems?  Or move food from the farm areas to the cities?  Only an idiot
would dismiss such a threat as hubris.  Denial is a powerful thing.
 
Maybe Big Guv will remain intact, but the rest of us will be in a world
of shit.
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#34  Edited By imad81
@Popogeejo said:

" Isn't this kind of a non-issue any way? In theory it can be done but there's no incentive to do it for those few who can do it.NK has no means to put a nuke in the wrong place, let alone the right place and no other country has any interest in doing something like that to the US. Any terrorist organisation would have the same problem as NK. "

Well Pakistan has nukes..and a significant portion of its territory is controlled by the Taliban(mostly the border shared with afganistan). Imagine a scenario(which is not far-fetched) in which the taliban takes over pakistan and controls the nukes, one could find its way across to the US.
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melcene

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#35  Edited By melcene

Fear Mongering:    the use of fear to influence the opinions and actions of others towards some specific end. The feared object or subject is sometimes exaggerated, and the pattern of fear mongering is usually one of repetition, in order to continuously reinforce the intended effects of this tactic, sometimes in the form of a vicious circle.

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Lind_L_Taylor

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#36  Edited By Lind_L_Taylor
@melcene said:
 
" Hubris: extreme haughtiness or arrogance. Hubris often indicates being out of touch with reality and overestimating one's own competence or capabilities, especially for people in positions of power. "
 
 It's not fear-mongering it's a "call to arms" and/or raising awareness. But yes, it is scary. Doesn't mean it should be ignored, however.
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Lind_L_Taylor

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#37  Edited By Lind_L_Taylor
@imad81 said:
" @Popogeejo said:

" Isn't this kind of a non-issue any way? In theory it can be done but there's no incentive to do it for those few who can do it.NK has no means to put a nuke in the wrong place, let alone the right place and no other country has any interest in doing something like that to the US. Any terrorist organisation would have the same problem as NK. "

Well Pakistan has nukes..and a significant portion of its territory is controlled by the Taliban(mostly the border shared with afganistan). Imagine a scenario(which is not far-fetched) in which the taliban takes over pakistan and controls the nukes, one could find its way across to the US. "
Past & current theories are that India & Pakistan would more
than likely nuke each other before the US was ever involved.
You ever read McCammon's Swan Song?  The start of that 
book starts with Pakistan & India blowing each other away
with nuclear hellfire..that was back in the 80s.
 
From what I know about it, Ghandi created Pakistan in an 
attempt to segregate Muslims from Hindus, but it didn't 
really pan out.  The Hindus were very upset by Ghandi's
decision & he was assassinated by a Hindu because of
it. This was told to me by an Indian fellow.   They've been
on the brink ever since.  That being the case, they are not
as tied to electricity as a developed nation...although I'm
sure that is changing, just not sure of the pace, due to
finite resource constraints.
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melcene

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#38  Edited By melcene
@Lind_L_Taylor: Then I guess you would be guilty of both since in your arrogance, you refuse to look at, and take under consideration, facts other people have given to refute your argument.  Instead you accuse them of being this or that just because they won't listen to you and your one source.  Also, lol at your fail attempt to start a left vs. right argument with your "republican" insults.
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Rubbish_

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#39  Edited By Rubbish_

This is boring, we should all be discussing the real EMP here.
 
Empire Arcadia that is, that dude Triforce looks like an ass right?

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Jack268

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#40  Edited By Jack268
@Lind_L_Taylor: I'm sorry, but why is your formatting like reading a poem? No offense but it feels wierd to transition between everyone else's posts and yours. 
 
Anyway, I live in Sweden so you can have your doomsday nuke. I'll be in my basement.
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Rubbish_

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#41  Edited By Rubbish_
@Jack268: 
Amerikanerna är lite för fixerade på vilket sätt de alla kommer att dö, tycker du inte?
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Lind_L_Taylor

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#42  Edited By Lind_L_Taylor
@melcene said:
 
I've only bashed the Reps once & SeriouslyNow has been
on the opposite side of my table in EVERY stinking thing
I put on these forums so why should I believe or agree with
anything he has to say?
 
Look at this:
  
See for yourself: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse#Post-Cold_War_nuclear_EMP_attack_scenarios 
 
Look at this:
" It has long been known that there are many ways to protect against nuclear EMP (or to quickly begin repairs where protection is not practical); but the United States EMP Commission determined that such protections are almost completely absent in the civilian infrastructure of the United States, and that even large sectors of the United States military services were no longer protected against EMP to the level that they were during the Cold War. "
 
Why should I take some guy who antagonizes me every
chance he gets over "notable scientists & technologists"??
If they're wrong, he should be correcting Wikipedia, not 
telling me that I'm wrong.
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Jack268

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#43  Edited By Jack268
@Rubbish_: Ja, det är tämligen osmakligt
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Lind_L_Taylor

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#44  Edited By Lind_L_Taylor
@Jack268 said:
" @Lind_L_Taylor: I'm sorry, but why is your formatting like reading a poem? No offense but it feels wierd to transition between everyone else's posts and yours.  Anyway, I live in Sweden so you can have your doomsday nuke. I'll be in my basement. "
LOL!  Send aid when it happens.
 
I got a different blog on format. I suggest you read it.
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fattony12000

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#45  Edited By fattony12000

A high-altitude nuclear detonation produces an immediate flux of gamma rays from the nuclear reactions within the device. These photons in turn produce high energy free electrons by Compton scattering at altitudes between (roughly) 20 and 40 km. These electrons are then trapped in the Earth's magnetic field, giving rise to an oscillating electric current. This current is asymmetric in general and gives rise to a rapidly rising radiated electromagnetic field called an electromagnetic pulse (EMP). Because the electrons are trapped essentially simultaneously, a very large electromagnetic source radiates coherently. 

The pulse can easily span continent-sized areas, and this radiation can affect systems on land, sea, and air. The first recorded EMP incident accompanied a high-altitude nuclear test over the South Pacific and resulted in power system failures as far away as Hawaii. A large device detonated at 400–500 km (250 to 312 miles) over Kansas would affect all of the continental U.S. The signal from such an event extends to the visual horizon as seen from the burst point. 

- Federation of American Scientists 

              

No Caption Provided
 
Typical nuclear weapon yields used during Cold War planning for EMP attacks were in the range of 1 to 10 megatons (4.2 to 42 PJ) This is roughly 50 to 500 times the sizes of the weapons the United States used in Japan at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Physicists have testified at United States Congressional hearings, however, that weapons with yields of 10 kilotons (42 TJ) or less can produce a very large EMP. 

The EMP at a fixed distance from a nuclear weapon does not depend directly on the yield but at most only increases as the square root of the yield (see the illustration below). This means that although a 10 kiloton weapon has only 0.7% of the total energy release of the 1.44-megaton Starfish Prime test, the EMP will be at least 8% as powerful. Since the E1 component of nuclear EMP depends on the prompt gamma ray output, which was only 0.1% of yield in Starfish Prime but can be 0.5% of yield in pure fission weapons of low yield, a 10 kiloton bomb can easily be 5 x 8% = 40% as powerful as the 1.44 megaton Starfish Prime at producing EMP.

 ALSO...PEPSI AND MILK!?
ALSO...PEPSI AND MILK!?
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Ramone

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#46  Edited By Ramone

Oh I see. Random Internet Dude knows more about the security of the United States than the whole of it's government. Also why did you format the OP normally but everything else to look like shit?

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Lind_L_Taylor

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#47  Edited By Lind_L_Taylor
@Fattony12000 said:

"

    
 
@Jonny7892 said:
"

Oh I see. Random Internet Dude knows more about the security of the United States than the whole of it's government. Also why did you format the OP normally but everything else to look like shit?

"
I had wrote the blog in TextEdit that was in the shape of
a columnar format.  However, when I pasted it into GB, the
GB editor stretched out all the text.  Well I'm not gonna go 
back & "columnarize" pasted-in paragraphs...Only a crazy 
person would do that.  shyeah.
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imad81

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#48  Edited By imad81
@Lind_L_Taylor said:

" @imad81 said:

" @Popogeejo said:

" Isn't this kind of a non-issue any way? In theory it can be done but there's no incentive to do it for those few who can do it.NK has no means to put a nuke in the wrong place, let alone the right place and no other country has any interest in doing something like that to the US. Any terrorist organisation would have the same problem as NK. "

Well Pakistan has nukes..and a significant portion of its territory is controlled by the Taliban(mostly the border shared with afganistan). Imagine a scenario(which is not far-fetched) in which the taliban takes over pakistan and controls the nukes, one could find its way across to the US. "
Past & current theories are that India & Pakistan would more than likely nuke each other before the US was ever involved. You ever read McCammon's Swan Song?  The start of that  book starts with Pakistan & India blowing each other away with nuclear hellfire..that was back in the 80s.  From what I know about it, Ghandi created Pakistan in an  attempt to segregate Muslims from Hindus, but it didn't  really pan out.  The Hindus were very upset by Ghandi's decision & he was assassinated by a Hindu because of it. This was told to me by an Indian fellow.   They've been on the brink ever since.  That being the case, they are not as tied to electricity as a developed nation...although I'm sure that is changing, just not sure of the pace, due to finite resource constraints. "
 You are right and wrong at the same time. Right in the sense that its definitely more likely that India and pakistan will go to war with each other first (as long as both have actual governments running them) before the US is involved.  In this scenario, there is absoliutely no doubt about it, but it is unlikely, because none of these countries actually have the balls to start a nuclear war(unless its an act of retaliation e.g. if a repeat of the 26/11 Bombay attacks occurs).
 
But everything changes once the taliban(backed by al-qaeda) take over pakistan.
 
It is worth asking yourself, who does the taliban have a bigger strife with, the US or India? Also keep in mind that the leader of al-qaeda is(according to most reports) in hiding somewhere in the border regions of pakistan. A scenario in which the Taliban takes over pakistan, there is a slightly more chance that they will attack the US first. 
 
The part where you are absolutely wrong is the claim that Gandhi(not Ghandi..sorry, but I had to point that out) was the one to initiate the partition of India and Pakistan. It was actually initiated by JInnah(the father of Pakistan or the equivalent of Gandhi in Pakistan) and an indian politician called Nehru.   
 
P.S. I enjoyed reading your post. Lets keep the discussion going!
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Lind_L_Taylor

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#49  Edited By Lind_L_Taylor
@imad81 said:

" @Lind_L_Taylor said:

" @imad81 said:

" @Popogeejo said:

" Isn't this kind of a non-issue any way? In theory it can be done but there's no incentive to do it for those few who can do it.NK has no means to put a nuke in the wrong place, let alone the right place and no other country has any interest in doing something like that to the US. Any terrorist organisation would have the same problem as NK. "

Well Pakistan has nukes..and a significant portion of its territory is controlled by the Taliban(mostly the border shared with afganistan). Imagine a scenario(which is not far-fetched) in which the taliban takes over pakistan and controls the nukes, one could find its way across to the US. "
Past & current theories are that India & Pakistan would more than likely nuke each other before the US was ever involved. You ever read McCammon's Swan Song?  The start of that  book starts with Pakistan & India blowing each other away with nuclear hellfire..that was back in the 80s.  From what I know about it, Ghandi created Pakistan in an  attempt to segregate Muslims from Hindus, but it didn't  really pan out.  The Hindus were very upset by Ghandi's decision & he was assassinated by a Hindu because of it. This was told to me by an Indian fellow.   They've been on the brink ever since.  That being the case, they are not as tied to electricity as a developed nation...although I'm sure that is changing, just not sure of the pace, due to finite resource constraints. "
 You are right and wrong at the same time. Right in the sense that its definitely more likely that India and pakistan will go to war with each other first (as long as both have actual governments running them) before the US is involved.  In this scenario, there is absoliutely no doubt about it, but it is unlikely, because none of these countries actually have the balls to start a nuclear war(unless its an act of retaliation e.g. if a repeat of the 26/11 Bombay attacks occurs).   But everything changes once the taliban(backed by al-qaeda) take over pakistan.   It is worth asking yourself, who does the taliban have a bigger strife with, the US or India? Also keep in mind that the leader of al-qaeda is(according to most reports) in hiding somewhere in the border regions of pakistan. A scenario in which the Taliban takes over pakistan, there is a slightly more chance that they will attack the US first.    The part where you are absolutely wrong is the claim that Gandhi(not Ghandi..sorry, but I had to point that out) was the one to initiate the partition of India and Pakistan. It was actually initiated by JInnah(the father of Pakistan or the equivalent of Gandhi in Pakistan) and an indian politician called Nehru.     P.S. I enjoyed reading your post. Lets keep the discussion going! "
 
 http://www.mkgandhi.org/assassin.htm
 Where it states at the top:
"The killer of Gandhiji and his apologists sought to justify the assassination on the following arguments:
  • Gandhiji supported the idea of a separate state for Muslims. In a sense he was responsible for the creation of Pakistan.

  • In spite of the Pakistani aggression in Kashmir, Gandhiji fasted to compel the government of India to release an amount of Rs. 55 crores due to Pakistan.

  • The belligerence of Muslims was a result of Gandhiji's policy of appeasement.  "

 
The case is rested. :)