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@DrX25: You could argue that Natty is already the jobber of the group :(. But imagine if we look at your Evolution comparison. What if they moulded Kaitlyn as their Randy Orton. The thing is that Beth fills both the Triple H and Batista role there. Natty is unfortunately not getting out of Beth's shadow and I really can't envision a good face turn for her.

WWE Smackdown Holiday Special on SyFy starts in ten minutes. Take part in the chat found here:

http://tinychat.com/phf30

I wish I lived on the East(ish) coast so I could watch with everybody. Here on the West coast it doesn't start for another 2 hours.

@ImperiousRix said:

I wish I lived on the East(ish) coast so I could watch with everybody. Here on the West coast it doesn't start for another 2 hours.

You could watch a stream; I do.

Also this Smackdown is really quite bad.

Mick I love ya but please stop.

@ImperiousRix said:

I wish I lived on the East(ish) coast so I could watch with everybody. Here on the West coast it doesn't start for another 2 hours.

Do yourself a favor and don't watch anything except the last 20 minutes.

That episode was like they were goading the internet to watch in spite of the quality.

last 20 minutes id not redeem this whole show

@slightconfuse: Yes, it sort of did.

@DrX25 said:

@slightconfuse: Yes, it sort of did.

Daniel Bryan getting dominated for the majority of a match against a severely injured man redeemed the show?

Mistletoe match - dumb

Jinder Mahal / DiBiase feud - dumb

Randy Ortan vs. David Ottunga - awful

Tyson Kidd job - Boo.

Cole in Reindeer costume - Funny only because of the way Cole brushes it off (Cole was in NXT Season 3 form tonight)

Booker T - Wasted

Hornswaggle Talking - Worst Idea Ever.

So no, the Bryan/Henry cage match didn't make up for the rest of the show.

@CL60: The match itself was well done and it proved that Daniel Bryan can get over as a title contender in a normal match (i.e: not via a quick cash in). Also, it's still the world's strongest man we're talking about (most of the match, Henry was using upper body strength to overpower Bryan).

Hornswaggle Talking - Worst Idea Ever.

Mistletoe match - dumb

Jinder Mahal / DiBiase feud - dumb

Randy Ortan vs. David Ottunga - awful

Tyson Kidd job - Boo.

Cole in Reindeer costume - Funny only because of the way Cole brushes it off (Cole was in NXT Season 3 form tonight)

Booker T - Wasted

Hornswaggle Talking - Worst Idea Ever.

So no, the Bryan/Henry cage match didn't make up for the rest of the show.

1stly no opinions on raw this week other than that the first hints of cena heel is kinda cool

smackdown however

mistletoe match was kinda borderline sexist not being a member of the fairer sex i cant say for sure but having them coming down having a shambles match showing quite clear that they cant wrestle (not saying women cant im saying divas cant as mentioned before i loved attitude era divas and im warming to the tna knockouts) in skimpy outfits and having them climb a pole and the prize being to kiss a superstar of there choice... im just saying

the jinder mahal ted dibiase fude is so awful as i don't care for dibiase but jinder could be good problem is i dont understand what hes saying his tone and timing make it sound like it could be a good promo . regardless i want to give it a chance rather than dismiss it out right ..but it does look like they just want to put 2 people that they feel that there doing nothing with.

i love kofi kingston one of my favorite wrestlers in the wwe just saying

isnt mistletoe poisonous?

first match of ortans ive not skipped in a few weeks and still wasn't good still don't like him

its good to see golddust is still around kinda a guilty pleasure wrestler should find him annoying as hell but i dont.....kinda gained a double chin since last time i saw him tho

@DrX25 said:

@CL60: The match itself was well done and it proved that Daniel Bryan can get over as a title contender in a normal match (i.e: not via a quick cash in). Also, it's still the world's strongest man we're talking about (most of the match, Henry was using upper body strength to overpower Bryan).

I agree. I don't agree that it was good enough to redeem the entire show, no, but I agree it was an excellently done "David vs. Goliath" match-up and both Bryan and Henry came out looking relatively good. If you were not excited by Danielson's ankle lock and this match's climax, I think you may be a bit too jaded.

@MEATBALL said:

@TurboMan said:

Hornswaggle Talking - Worst Idea Ever.

I completely and wholeheartedly disagree, sir.

Indeed. C'mon, the Hornswoggle gimmick is so ridiculously pointless at this point that anything that'll make easier to stomach is welcome in my book.

But overall, last night's show was pretty horrendous. The backstage segments were sloppy and missed the mark more often than not, and there wasn't enough meaningful action to make up for it. Here are some of my thoughts.

Mistletoe Match- Ugh. I don't know why I bothered getting excited for Kaitlyn and AJ being in this match. I think it was based off the naive hope that one of them might actually win this utterly pointless piece of garbage (which would at least give one of those ladies SOME kind of win on national television).

Mahal/Gabriel- I actually like Justin Gabriel, so I'm glad this wasn't just an extended squash. I'm also a DiBiase fan, so anything that gets those two guys on TV is fine. Whatever, at least there was a 450 splash.

Orton/Otunga- I was kind of cracking up watching Otunga take bumps off Christmas trees and presents. It was awful, but it was the kind of awful the rest of the show should have been.

Kingston/Kidd- Kidd only gets TV time when he's jobbing...

Booker T/Rhodes- Was actually excited for this match. Then it didn't happen... *CORNETTE FACE*

All the stupid Christmas bits- Mick Foley is really testing my worship of him. First "This is Your Life" and now this? I know it's not Foley's fault, but he's being associated with shit television right now. All the backstage interactions barring very few instances were awful awful awful. Just awful.

Battle Royal- Battle Royals are hit and miss, and this one was definitely a miss. Nothing exciting to talk about.

Bryan/Henry- See Above

Raw.

Piper's Pit - I think turning John Cena Heel would be a bad idea mainly because they don't really have anyone fill his place. in fact they don't seem to have that many Faces at all, they have Randy Orton (who has gotten to that point where he could shit on a child's face and still be cheered for it), John Cena, CM Punk, Zack Ryder, Kofi Kingston, Sheamus, Big Show and kinda Bryan Danielson. I could see them wanting to push Sheamus into Cena's place, but I don't think they are going to throw him on Raw without first testing him with Smackdown's title.

Diva's Match - Here I was hoping for a good match. HA!

Miz Vs Morrison - Just in case you didn't get it last week, The Miz is now Heel, also he makes dumb looking faces.

Ziggler Vs Orton - Good match. I want to know how much of Ziggler's heat is genuinely his and how much of it is because he is with the Heat monster that is Vickie Guerrero.

Ryder Vs Swagger - Okay match.

CM Punk Vs Del Rio - Not as good as last week's Punk Ziggler match. I did like that they played with the ending. I was expecting CM Punk to be DQ'd for throwing Rio into the turn-buckle because of, you know, Wrestling Logic.

Smackdown

Mistletoe Match - Chance of a good Diva's match 33 1/3%, Chance of a good Battle royal 33 1/3%, Chance of a good Diva's Battle Royal 10% (Steiner maths™)

Justin Gabriel Vs. Jinder Mahal - Man, does Jinder Mahal get no reaction like that all the time?

Rhodes Vs Booker T - This is going to PPV isn't it?

Kofi Kingston vs. Tyson Kidd - Okay, at least we had some kind of match here.

Street Fight - Good match but nothing spectacular.

Battle Royal - Second Battle Royal of the night (yeah not really, but it was) At least this one wasn't absolutely terrible.

Cage Match - Fine but not exciting. I'm saying Show wins TLC holds title to Wrestlemania then Bryan wins the title in a triple threat match. Also Bryan gets "injured" between now and Wrestlemania.

Overall Raw was better, Smackdown felt like a bad Raw and it being live is not a good thing. Smackdown when done right is the Wrestling show while Raw is the crazy storyline show. Also AJ Lee is cute, we need more AJ Lee, hell with the right opponent she can have great matches.

@ImperiousRix: Well, I didn't want to rip my eyes out after the cage match, so, for me anyway, that match redeemed the show.

@damswedon: I have to disagree, CM Punk is way over with the crowd and if they were to push a couple of mid carders properly, they could fill the void left by a Cena heel turn (anyway, it's not going to happen anytime soon).

@TeflonBilly: Beth vs Natty feud is planned to happen soon (might not be a great storyline but the matches should be amazing).

@DrX25: I don't think CM Punk is over in a way that fills the Cena/Hogan role, he is more of a Stone Cold/The Rock. I think they should hold off turning Cena heel until after he gets booed to hell at Wrestlemania, then they throw him against Sheamus who seems to a pretty good wrestler but also is over with kids.

@damswedon said:

Cage Match - Fine but not exciting. I'm saying Show wins TLC holds title to Wrestlemania then Bryan wins the title in a triple threat match. Also Bryan gets "injured" between now and Wrestlemania.

What? Big Slow holding the title is an even worse idea than Big Slow being in the main event scene.

@GunslingerPanda said:

@damswedon said:

Cage Match - Fine but not exciting. I'm saying Show wins TLC holds title to Wrestlemania then Bryan wins the title in a triple threat match. Also Bryan gets "injured" between now and Wrestlemania.

What? Big Slow holding the title is an even worse idea than Big Slow being in the main event scene.

But if Bryan wins against two giant guys then his David vs Goliath story is better, because there are two Goliaths (Wrestling Logic). I'm not saying it's good idea, it is just what I could see happening, especially considering how long this Big Show - Mark Henry feud has been going on.

@GunslingerPanda: Big Show works in the main event only in short bursts and TLC seems like the perfect time to have the blowoff match and have Henry move on to Orton or Barrett and Orton at Royal Rumble and win the Smackdown Elimination Chamber to face Bryan at Wrestlemania.

@MEATBALL said:

@TurboMan said:

Hornswaggle Talking - Worst Idea Ever.

I completely and wholeheartedly disagree, sir.

Will you say the same thing when Hornswaggle is cutting promos in the middle of the ring?

@TurboMan: Well yes because Hornswoggle's stock will fall faster that Wall Street's (because in the eyes of the masses: a dwarf that can't talk = cute; A dwarf that talks like everyone else = freak, get it off the TV).

I'll just leave this here.

@damswedon said:

@GunslingerPanda said:

@damswedon said:

Cage Match - Fine but not exciting. I'm saying Show wins TLC holds title to Wrestlemania then Bryan wins the title in a triple threat match. Also Bryan gets "injured" between now and Wrestlemania.

What? Big Slow holding the title is an even worse idea than Big Slow being in the main event scene.

But if Bryan wins against two giant guys then his David vs Goliath story is better, because there are two Goliaths (Wrestling Logic). I'm not saying it's good idea, it is just what I could see happening, especially considering how long this Big Show - Mark Henry feud has been going on.

I actually like that idea. Since it's a decent idea, I doubt WWE will do anything like that, but I still like it.

@ImperiousRix: He would need to win the match clean and, with two giants, I doubt they would do that.

FINALLY got a chance to catch Chikara's "High Noon" iPPV. Here's some quick thoughts:

• Fun opening tag match between The Young Bucks and Fire Ant & Soldier Ant
• Sara Del Rey match was fun, nothing special. I laughed when the ref threw out Jakob's tie, and then he pulled out another tie from his tights
• First time seeing Greg Iron in a full match, It's impressive to watch him wrestle.
• No DQ tag match at the end was a bit boring
• Colt Cabana vs. Archibald Peck will go down in history some day. It's mind boggling how a talent like Cabana isn't signed in the big leagues, and I think the future is bright for Peck, even if he is reduced to a manager.
• Eddie Kingston vs. Mike Quackenbush delivered as a great main event to a fun show.

Overall, worth the fifteen dollars.

@DrX25:

I don't see why he would have to. He's the underdog and everyone knows it. Obviously, I'm not suggesting he use any under-handed tactics, but a roll-up win or taking advantage of one of the giants being down to steal a victory would be fine.

At this point, I think people just want to see him win the title. I'm not entirely sure they care how he does it.

So Tyler Reks did this

Warning if you have a subwoofer it seems one of the voices comes out of that. Because this is really poorly done

Did I mention this was really poorly done?

The only wrestling show I watch is TNA. What? There's nothing with that. Don't give me that look! I don't care, I'll take on all of you guys just like this guy.

@TheMadmanMaple: @_@ what started this?

@GorillaMoPena: I feel the word "MidCard" is being extremely generous

@TurboMan said:

@TheMadmanMaple: @_@ what started this?

What caused the crazy, redneck guy in the plaid shirt to go ballistic? Probably crystal meth.

Just a reminder, WWE has been screwing up since FOREVER.

@DrX25: wow... did that really happen i remember kane tag teaming with him but it was in a face turn and resulted in x-pac wearing red

-edit- and this was the worst thing to come from it

@lord_canti: From what I can gather, that was a one time deal. But it's not like they done anything else that was stupid with him (apart form him doing a spinarooney on Raw, Katie Vick, starting a feud with Chris Jericho over him spilling coffee on him and making a snide remark about it or his feud with Snitsky over Lita's dead baby).

I know this isn't PPV/TV related, but go on itunes and search for the album "Wrestling Mania" and listen to the John Cena covers. Trust me, you won't be disappointed.

Edit: To make this TV related, Lilian Garcia is back to do ring announcing for Smackdown.

This is PPV/TV related... Raw Chat tonight at The Raw is Chatroom

@ImperiousRix said:

@DrX25:

I don't see why he would have to. He's the underdog and everyone knows it. Obviously, I'm not suggesting he use any under-handed tactics, but a roll-up win or taking advantage of one of the giants being down to steal a victory would be fine.

At this point, I think people just want to see him win the title. I'm not entirely sure they care how he does it.

How does him stealing a victory make him a bigger star? Just holding the title is not going to increase his stock. Look at Swagger. He won the title by stealing a win and he's a joke now. If Bryan does cash in at Mania, he has to win in a decisive manner. Its the only way his character will be a legitimate main eventer. It should be against Mark Henry as well. Henry is doing the best work of his career right now and is easily the most entertaining act in the company. Having Bryan end his reign would make Bryan out to be a legit threat and will skyrocket his career.

@WilliamHenry:

Obviously that would be the ideal situation, but I think we need to be realistic. It's pretty obvious that WWE doesn't have the greatest faith in Daniel Bryan. I think of it much like a Mick Foley situation. They'll be willing to put the belt on him, but not keep it on him. I think if Bryan indeed gets a title run, it will be extremely short-lived that's just the facts of it.

It's not like Swagger at all. Swagger came out of nowhere, was pushed when he wasn't yet a proven entity or star, and he's likely going to have to spend twice as much time in his career in attempts to build himself up back up to that status.

@GorillaMoPena:

I love Tyler Reks, Tyson Kidd, Hawkins, AND Drew McIntyre. McIntyre and Kidd in-particular are too good to not be used more. However, you're right... this is terrible. Can't help but feel like it'll do more harm than good to these guys who are already at the bottom rung of the company.

@ImperiousRix said:

@WilliamHenry:

Obviously that would be the ideal situation, but I think we need to be realistic. It's pretty obvious that WWE doesn't have the greatest faith in Daniel Bryan. I think of it much like a Mick Foley situation. They'll be willing to put the belt on him, but not keep it on him. I think if Bryan indeed gets a title run, it will be extremely short-lived that's just the facts of it.

It's not like Swagger at all. Swagger came out of nowhere, was pushed when he wasn't yet a proven entity or star, and he's likely going to have to spend twice as much time in his career in attempts to build himself up back up to that status.

I wasn't saying that Swagger and Bryan had similar pushes, I just said that Swagger stole a win for the title and it did nothing for him. It was supposed to propel him to the next level and now he's worse than before. I agree that they don't seem to have a ton of faith with Bryan, but they can't afford to have his win be a fluke. Giving him a month long reign does nothing for him or the company. They need new stars more than ever right now.

Did anyone see the Nash/HHH stipulation? Its laughable. Who cares if there is a sledgehammer above the ring? Its already a ladder match, just use the ladder against your opponent. And to imply that if they went under the ring to get a sledgehammer and used it that it would lead to a DQ? Just laughably bad. How could someone be DQ'd in a ladder match?

How would you feel if "It Begins" was Mordecai?

i am at odds with the rest of the community i actually like cena it could be that i missed the 4 moves of death saga but i like him, yet even i find the irony of cena calling up some one for "force feeding" anything amusing

i rather like dolph zigler (bold statement i know) but every time i think he should get a push i think "no that means more vicky" i think at this point shes holding him back shes not being a heel shes just being bone chillingly annoying

the wwe network logo looks like it was done in paint, and the advert just screamed "this is what the kids like isnt it?"

if cena turns heel and ryder is the face in a fude that is a big F U to fans you want more zack you want a heel cena well there you go

RAW last night was... eeeeeeeeh.

That's about all I can muster to say about it. Seemed like it was all just filler to set up TLC.

Can we talk for a second about CM Punk? Re-watching that ending segment from last night's show really hammered home that Punk is REALLY beginning to grate on me with pretty much everything he does on the microphone. This has coming from someone who would tell that CM Punk has done nothing that has not been absolute gold in his entire career, if you asked me before Money in the Bank. The reason I love Punk's character so much is because he's changed so many times but he's still stayed the same person. He's been pompous ROH champion Punk, ECW Punk, Straight Edge Society Punk, Nexus Punk, "Shootin'" Punk etc, etc. But the new Punk sucks and I've finally figured out why.

The new Punk is Triple H. He's doing the same thing that HHH has done for his entire career and that's be the "coolest, smartest and toughest" guy on TV by telling everyone else that they suck and don't matter. But he's not telling people they suck in the cool professional wrestling kind of way. He's telling them in the "this whole show is fake and all of these characters are shitty, except for mine because I'm CM Punk and I'm the Best in the World BLAH BLAH BLAH." But the worst of the worst came last night when The Miz was called a fag for the fourth consecutive week on television. Not to mention, it was followed up with a fucking Twilight joke of all things because you know...topical? Homophobia is nothing new in wrestling and I understand that but for as many times as Punk has said "It's 2011", um, hey Punk, it's fucking 2011. Get a grip.

Isn't the whole point of these GLAAD partnerships and "Be A Star" campaigns so that this kind of shit doesn't happen? Now, I'm not saying that every wrestler should get in the ring and tongue kiss on the month and be friends but what does it say about today's wrestlers when the only response they have to anything is just "your gay." Not only is it middle school behavior but it also incredibly fucking stupid. Maybe everyone's forgotten but THIS is who The Miz is banging right now.

Yeah, maybe you should shut the fuck up, Punk.

But even after this rant, Punk still manages to make me smile with his awesome Leatherface title swing to close the show. So, I'll give you another pass this week, Punk. For now.

@Milkman: its been noted before in the past that he uses that as a insult this was his reaction to a fan during the period after "he walked out after winning the championship"

@lord_canti said:

@Milkman: its been noted before in the past that hes a little bit homophobic this was his reaction to a fan during the period after "he walked out after winning the championship"

If you actually knew anything about Punk you would know he's not homophobic. He is incredibly pro gay rights.

@lord_canti: @CL60: It's not really that I think Punk is homophobic because I don't. It's more the general tone of a lot of the face promos on WWE TV. "Cheer for me because this guy's gay!" John Cena is a BIG offender of this kind of shit.

@Milkman: @CL60: im sorry i didn't mean it in the sense that hes not for gay rights or anything just that he uses it as a insult some times wich is still bad but its not just him. im not back pedaling this is what i meant im just a idiot il edit my post

@Milkman: [Nothing to see here, this never happened]:

Kaitlyn turned Heel and joined the DoD, thus ending the Chickbusters.