So I got to see ICP at the Juggalo March and I actually kind of enjoyed it?

I have never been a fan of Insane Clown Posse's music, but I have always been interested in that entire culture, partially due to Jeff Gerstmann and Giant Bomb. When I found out I would be moving to DC I knew that I had to go see this thing. The concert opened up with the Star-Spangled Banner with gunshots and laughter noise over it. I was standing off the the side and an older Juggalo lady politely asked if I could move over to let what appeared to be her six year old Juggalo daughter through to see. Faygo was a big attraction at this concert (as well as the devil's lettuce it seemed). Many people were jumping on stage to grab bottles, only to be throw off by security. They even had Faygo breaks where some weird looking dudes would splash buckets of the cheap drink on people. Violent J had a neat trick where he could launch a bottle of the stuff about 50 feet. But yeah, you could tell they were having fun on stage and the crowd was way into it. I think I get the appeal now. Also, Violent J has lost a lot of weight.

Were any other duders there? Am I a Juggalo now?

Pictures:

I think this qualifies as being a Juggalo, yes.

If you have to ask if you're a Juggalo then you don't really have to ask if you are a Juggalo.

I almost created a thread asking if somebody from the community was there, but that seemed too random of a topic. Did you see anything from the rally? You should write into the Bombcast this week.

How many Juggalos showed up?

Besides yourself, I mean...

I was a major Juggalo as a teen (my screen name being a vestigial remnant of those days), and I had written them off for years since as an embarrassing phase. Wouldn't even touch an ICP album.

But I kinda changed my tone after following Nathan Rabin's writings on ICP, and now I do actually appreciate them for what they are... a fun novelty act that's actually enjoyable to listen to here and there. As such, it's been interesting to see people start to ease up on juggalos and ICP lately. Kind of like how Guy Fieri has been catching a break.

It's also been interesting to see how smoothly this march went. I know from experience that many juggalos don't fit the stereotype at all and are perfectly normal, well-adjusted people who just happen to like a group, but I was really expecting a Tila Tequila-level debacle out of this.

Dont forget to send an email to bombcast@giantbomb.com

@flasaltine: Oh you went. I wanted to go but was afraid of getting my ass kicked

Congratulations, you're part of a gang now.

Turns out they all just knew ahead of time what a trash heap of a person Tila Tequila is.

When I was in middle school, one of my friends had an ICP album and we listened to it. I remember thinking it was funny at the time, but also kind of over the top. Of course, at the time, my family was going to church every Sunday. I wasn't allowed to watch The Simpsons. My mom called the cable company to get MTV removed from the channels our house received. So listening to ICP was like...culture shock, or something.

I never purchased any ICP music and I think Juggalos are fucking ridiculous. But that said...man, FUCK the FBI for this "gang" designation. That is straight up bullshit. One of the biggest rap songs in the country right now is by someone who is an unapologetic Blood, but so far the FBI hasn't labeled everyone who rolls down their windows and bumps "Bodak Yellow" at full blast as a gang member. Look, ICP sure as hell doesn't do themselves any favors by showing up in their clown makeup when they give public statements, but the FBI is utterly in the wrong here.

Between this and the demonstrations by political extremists from both sides going on simultaneously, that area may well have contained the highest concentration of dumb in American history. ICP is fascinating in a confusing sort of way, though. Knowing that they are genuinely successful, every time I see them do anything, I find myself stammering half questions at what I'm witnessing. "Wha-....how...who...why?" I will say that I agree that their classification as a "gang" is ridiculous. I figure that the FBI just looked at them and decided, "this is so stupid it has to be dangerous."

I'm ashamed to admit that I actually have seen them live as well. In the most random show possible, Cypress Hill, Lit, Stroke 9, and ICP all played together. (I was there to see Cypress Hill, FWIW.) ICP was pretty bad, but somewhat entertainingly so. To their credit, they really went for it, and they briefly won over the crowd in a scintillating performance of "chicken hunting", but that may have been partially due to the fact that in Texas, mentioning hunting in any form goes a long way. Anyway, Lit and Stroke 9 each played their one song of note, and then Cypress Hill showed up to a thunderous reception. It was about to be on. Then one dude threw a water bottle on the stage, and Cypress Hill said, "Y'all throwing shit? We out." Then they left.

That was my first concert ever.

@bladeofcreation: I agree with you, on all points. The gang moniker by the FBI sounds like overreaction to me. I don't get the sense they are structured like street gangs, but rather egalitarian with a few hierarchial individuals who guide and influence the rest.

In fact someone will earn themselves a degree on a dissertation on the who, what, where and why's of the Juggalo movement someday. If he/she hasn't already. One Juggalo described their members as actually a bunch of hippies (can't remember where I read it). That of course is not to be taken literally, but as a description of sense of family, sharing, and other communal aspects of what is purported the Juggalo experience., at least by that one person. That old familiar term of Belonging, from cults to Megachurches.

Some homicidal painted freak with a meat chopper, and 'how do magnets work anyway' type stuff aside (or included) there would be probably some societal insights worth gaining.

First we let them gather, next the streets are running orange with Faygo.

They aren't actually classified as a gang anymore.

@bybeach: Everything I have ever heard from people actually treating the subject with any sort of seriousness (and not clear paranoia/a desire to ridicule the weird sub-culture) its..just a group of very dedicated fans.

Yes, there is a constant theme of "Being a Juggalo means your part of a family". But I never felt this was anything more then any other persecuted group coming together. The whole "The FBI classifys them as a gang" really kind of shed a totally unfair spot-light on the whole thing.

Like, are all the people that attend Pax a gang? How about any other concert for a controversial (to the main stream/conservative block) of entertainers? How about the cosplaying community? Or the local hipster community in 'insert city with that here". Just..meh.

So yah, OP, your a juggalo, or not. Whatever. Every description of concerts I've heard of people attended seemed to be a great time..much like most other high-energy concerts where the performers interact with or provide an element of stage-craft and spectacle in addition to their music.

The entire thing just strikes me as a group of fans of something that got a very bad wrap, and came together to say "You know what, screw you for thinking we can't like the music we like, or we are bad cause we happen to be different then you". And its only a cult in the same way that every major sports-team fan base is (selling ticket, merchandise, etc).

I've never heard anything about them or ICP, (Re:Magnets huh? dumbness aside) that made me think they were anything other then a passionate fan base. All be it one people like to look down on and make fun of. Deserved or not, you get that big a group of fans of anything together, and have everyone who isn't a fan crap on what they are a fan of and their very self-worth for being a fan, your gonna get a close-knit group of people who are high on acceptance and tolerance. Pretty universal stuff IMO.

I was there too! I'm not a fan but I live in DC and had to check it out. It was a great time, everyone I talked to was super nice and just wanted to be able to listen to the music they like. Someone had a sign that said something like "Just let us listen to our shitty bands."

I saw other signs from things like "Make America Woop Woop Again" and "We Know How Magnets Work" to "Fuck Nazis" and "Fuck the FBI" A few left wing groups were there with them too - Food Not Bombs were handing out pizza and Faygo, DSA and IWW had people show up. There were a ton of people there too, waaaay more than were at the alt right rally on the other side of the mall.

@maginnovision: Do you have any source for this? From what I've seen, their case was initially thrown out, and that decision was overturned on appeal, meaning their case can go forward.

@bladeofcreation: Since the FBI hasn't published a new ngta, no. But the cases continue to be dismissed because the FBI claims they've removed them. They also unpublished the 2011 report which is when it was first listed.

Of course PAX attendees aren't a gang, and that isn't a very good analogy. There actually are criminal, gang-like elements of Juggalos, which is why multiple law enforcement agencies besides the FBI have classified them as such. The FBI's report even goes into this a bit, if you haven't read it you should.

@mike: I don't have sources available right now but from what I remember the FBI specifically noted there was no apparent centralized command and crimes were typically individuals motivated individually. The "Juggalos" aren't very gang like, considering they're just fans of a group. They're not even politically aligned.

@maginnovision: Like I said, it isn't just the FBI. There are several other state and local authorities that have classified various Juggalo chapters as gangs. The reports are out there if you care to take the time to read them, this isn't just some rogue agency deciding that everyone who goes to see ICP is a gang member.

@mike: Ok. I'll buy that.

I still feel like this was a knee-jerk "These kids and their music scare us!", but I don't at all doubt that some of the people who listened to the ICPs music and grouped together around it were, infact up to no good and gang-like.

I'd just believe that about almost every counter-culture group in existence and don't feel like the Juggalo's being singled out like they are is quite fair. Pax attendee's might seem a bit far..but from the reporting around the big multi-day Juggalo gathering they had here in my home state this year, it sounded way more like a convention then just a music concert to me. That's where I drew it from.

@mike: No, it's likely other misguided folks labelling them. If you look hard enough you can find groups of people identifying with a musical group that would match the definition for any musical group with a following. How many of these labels popped up after the 2011 report. I know people have been hysterical over ICP for a long time over the lyrics so I don't doubt some were before. I do however doubt the statistical accuracy of labelling their fans a gang.

@mike: I'm not surprised that Juggalos, some good percentage of them, are involved in crime. Of some sort. And a affiliation could not help be noticed. I've checked out a few of their videos in the past, and saw some disturbing stuff like a child killing what was implied his Mom. Definitely an authority figure. But are they true gang participants like Crips, Bloods or Hell's Angels (who try to maintain they are a club).

I'm kind of thinking they are more like the previous British skin-heads or in some ways Chauvs. There will be involvement in crime. But calling them a gang seems too simplistic.

@maginnovision: There are documented cases of organized Juggalo criminal street gangs all over the country. They exist and it isn't just a label or some form of mass hysteria. Virtually all of the reports I've ever read about this subject do take the time to point out that not every Juggalo is a criminal and that law enforcement should keep that in mind when dealing with people. But it's not some form of mass hysteria or simply a case of people being unfairly labeled. These gangs exist whether you want to believe it or not, and the information is out there in the public record if you ever want to do some research and learn about the subject.

Y'all sent me down a crazy rabbit hole. I just remember weirdly liking her reality show as a kid and expected to find out she is a bit trashy.
Just blown away by how much of a garbage human being she is.

@mike: I've already read about it, I've seen documentaries. I haven't argued that gangs dont exist. If anything new has happened maybe I'm not up to date but from what I know juggalos and gangs affiliated with the psychopathic groups are mostly tangentially related. So the real issue, as it has always been, is not whether gangs associate themselves with psychopathic groups but whether the hardcore fans who call themselves juggalos are a gang. There are no hard numbers I know of so it's impossible to say but my gut tells me it's an insignificant number of gang members who call themselves juggalos compared to fans who do.

If you know of any data that says otherwise I'm open to looking at it. Also, since this is fairly off topic at this point and I'm about to hit another busy part of my week, I'd say just pm me if you care to continue.

@mike: Right, but isn't that the issue in the first place? That most Juggalos aren't gangmembers, but in some cases (although not the FBI's) the whole group gets identified as such.

@maginnovision: I'm still looking for anything I can find on this. I find it strange that they would continue to protest a designation they don't have anymore.

As far as thread titles on this forum go, this one is particularly great. I hope the six year old girl enjoyed it (but mostly I just hope she was given hearing protection).

@bladeofcreation: I think that is basically it, they want an official(public) retraction and/or correction. Since no new report has been released and they haven't amended the old report law enforcement are likely to follow the latest published data.

I think you just might be "Down with the Clown" if you're not careful.