The Official Shift+F1 V6 Thread of Speed

To be fair to kyvat, Alonso was travelling a lot slower than he should be, Ferrari are crazy to have gone out on inters.

That didn't look like his fault, there was a huge opening. Alonso should paid more attention

Nah, Kvyat was miles back. There was no reason for Alonso to expect the Toro Rosso to fire up the inside. Kvyat out-braked himself and tried his best to prevent an accident, but it was already done.

Alonso should indeed have expected it, he was on intermediate and was going slow just to prevent himself from going off. Kyvat had the better grip and speed coming in and out of that corner. Just look now at Bottas him nearly going off.

He wasn't making an overtaking move, he was barely in control and sliding through the apex.

I can't imagine driving an F1 car in any condition, but with that much spray it is just nuts. They must not be able to see some of the corners until they are right on them.

Damn, Magnussen.

@khann: I still disagree, Kyvat made that corner okay and Alonso got from the far outside right onto the Apex, all while being dead slow. If you do that stuff while driving out of shape you have to look out. This is F1 after all, not GP2.

He was taking the wet line through the corner, though. Kvyat was miles back and Alonso shouldn't really need to expect a car to come out of nowhere. Probably more of a racing (qualifying) incident than anything else, I guess.

Williams really can't seem to get it together in the wet. People who have been following practice, have they been struggling in the dry so far this week too?

@khann: If you're going 3 secs a lap slower you need to expect a car from everywhere, all the time. But yes, this shouldn't warrant a penalty for anyone.

Agreed.

@aajf: Williams was fast throughout the weekend, they didn't struggle so much with the weather just now, they struggled with their own tyre choice.

Red Bull look really quick when their engine is working. Well, Vettel does.

Smart move by Rosberg!

Tasty top six, look forward to the race.

Interesting qualifying. Hoping for a dry race.

Wow, impressed by Vettel, he really showed his class today. Don't know if I'm hoping for rain in the race or not, maybe a bit of changeable conditions would make it interesting, but that kind of torrential rain for a full race could be a bit much. :P

That was a fun qualifying. Seeing the changing conditions over the course of the morning was particularly interesting to watch. Definitely looking forward to the race, hopefully Hamilton and Vettel don't run into problems again and we get to see what they can do.

Really enjoying my first season of actually paying attention to F1 rather than just glancing at it from time to time when it's on. Thanks again, Drew + Danny (and the rest of you GB Alt+F1 forum guys).

I for one would love a repeat of this. I love changing conditions mid or just after the race

@hero_swe: Let's just hope it won't be a repeat of 2009.

I really liked the start of 2009. But yeah I totally understood why they stopped that one. I actually do hope it's kind of similar to it. Aslong as they keep it going this time. I love it when drivers and teams have to switch strategies, it really makes it clear who will win. It's the ones who can adapt the best.

@hero_swe: And I don't believe in the FIA right now, I think as soon as some rain hits they will pause the race. They need to get their rules consistent, I like wet races (every now and then at least) but what's the point in having wet tyres if you pause a session as soon as some rain hits and they wait until the conditions are good enough for intermediates? They don't ever get tired of touting how "the new generation of wet tyres can push away up to 65 litres of water on track!" but they don't use them. Either get rid of wet racing, like NASCAR, or keep the session going (if it is within reason). Maybe the drivers need to drop down to like 3mins per lap, but thats life and its the same conditions for everyone. Works in GT racing. Also worked in the 90s.

@aajf: A relative drop off in performance in the wet when grip is low is what you might expect with cars that don't enjoy as much aero down-force as the better designed cars from wealthier teams. Should be a good fight from Bottas & Massa if it's dry tomorrow and they can use the William's full speed & grip again.

The BBC does a good F1 weather forecast feature if anyone's interested.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/features/26801051

Malaysia has huge downpours of rain in most afternoons at this time of year - like clockwork, and it is more of a monsoon than a shower. It normally stops promptly though and as this circuit is well drained, so the window for wet tyres is small and intermediates are better for a drying track. During the rain, there was too much standing water on track and not even the wets would cope. F1 used to have monsoon tyre options, but I don't think Pirelli make them for this season. The 65 litres of displaced water only gets pushed up into the air anyway - it does not disappear! slowing down doesn't always help either.

I wonder why you think the rules are not consistent, since races often go ahead in the rain (i.e. in the 1976 Fuji GP, where Lauda refused to race because of the conditions and let Hunt win the championship) . GT racing gets stopped if the conditions deteriorate too much also.

Perhaps you'd like to see more racing like Spa 1998:

@diz: I'm fully aware of Malaysia's weather problem and they made that problem themselves. Why postpone the race until 16:00 local time when you're fully aware of the fact, that that is the time where the big rain usually hits. That's not of service to the viewer, as is the reasoning of Mr. Ecclestone, but rather a disservice because all you see is a delay for x-minutes. I'm also fully aware of the fact that the water just doesn't disappear and that slowing down doesn't help once you reach the threshold for aqua planing. Today definitely were red flag conditions, no questions asked.

Also saying that "races often go ahead in the rain!" and then quote Fuji '76 is basically my argument. They used to race in those conditions, but don't do so anymore. Can't put my finger on exactly when that happened, but must've been somewhere around '07-'08, the Hamilton/Massa championship era. I think the most infamous example I can think of right now would be Nürburgring '07, where everyone complained about it being undriveable, cars going left and right and like 5-7 cars got stuck in the gravel trap at turn 1. Meanwhile reserver driver Markus Winkelhock went from last to first and comfortably lead the race because he was the only guy that wasn't too stubborn to put on wet tyres (he actually started on them) and even then continued to race reasonably fast. All the others drivers kept it on full/almost full but certainly too much speed, spun out and got stock while he was doing his laps. The race then got red flagged, while meanwhile 2-4 people proved you could drive without a problem in those conditions if you just control yourself. The same thing happened in the AUS quali one or two years ago, Brazilian quali around that same year (Hülkenberg getting pole in the Williams, proving it was driveable) and Canada, the longest red-flag period in F1 yet.

Also Lauda didn't as much refuse to drive, as just saying he couldn't do it because that's a man that knows his limits. He's always the first to complain about today's red flag periods and was furious today. He was complaining for a full hour why they wouldn't drive and would not shut up about it.

Well it does not always rain promptly at 16:00 in Sepang. It is more likely to rain in the early evening than in the day though, as in many other tropical places. Also, Fuji 76 was also massively delayed though monsoon rain. Fuji was the first global live televised F1 race ever and the pressure was on the promoter to stage a race because of this. Once the race did get going, after the long wait for the deluge to stop, it then dried up completely. Lauda pulled out of Fuji 76 in the first wet laps because he was scared to have another accident, after only semi-recovering from his horrific injuries at the Nordshleife a few months earlier that year (interview question at 3:46)

At Nurburgring 07 it started as a dry race, then rained on lap 1, but Winkelhock started from the pits on wets. He also gambled again on using wet tyres in the drying conditions at the restart and was quickly overtaken. He failed to complete the re-started grand prix due to car failure. That race even had a "river" flowing across the track at turn 1 before it was red-flagged! There have been statistically very few red flags because of wet races in GP history: That was why I found your statement about consistency worth countering.

Wet weather racing can make things a random lottery and driver skill is not displayed so much as luck. Although luck plays a big part in F1, it should be balanced with skill and not necessarily the skill to drive very slowly. Aquaplaning is only one of the issues and lack of vision is probably the more important factor in a wet race (like in the Spa clip I posted earlier). I like the fact that F1 has wet races and appreciate the ability of certain drivers to adapt to changing conditions. I think there are limits though and wouldn't expect an F1 race to be meaningful in icy, snowy or monsoon conditions.

@diz: I am completely aware of Lauda's history and person. Know that while he is a "Legend" he changes his opinion every two seconds. Also it's "Nordschleife" (just kidding :D ). Nürburgring '07 started as a dry race, yes, but it was raining outside of the track before the race and Winkelhock got a call from his manager who was somewhere outside of the track to put on wets. Also, yes, of course he got overtaken later because that Spyker was a huge piece of junk. Also the "river" was something that happened, yes, but it wasn't as bad as TV made it look. Spray always looks worse on TV. I've seen worse over the years.

While I try to decide if I want to try to stay awake tonight or nap and set an alarm at 3am I found this on tvracer and thought you all would find it interesting.

@datarez: The best part of that video is looking at the ear protection the fans are using between the two years.

Well i didn't get screwed by daylight savings and it looks like it's not raining.

Lets do this.

Yeah I managed to get up in time despite being up until 2am playing the new Diablo content only to realise that it was now 3am thanks to the time change. Looking forward to the race, though.

I predict Kimi in top 3 anyone wanna add to that?

I have a feeling vettel is gonna take this one. He's looking really focused this weekend

No way everyone gets through those first two corners without spinning.

The Malaysian Circuit is such a beautiful circuit. I like it a lot.

Let's hope for a great race, everyone.

Kobayashi makes it through at least.... Right?

I think Vettel is going to be mad seeing as what happened last time. That may well equal very good driving, as little as I want to see him come out on top.

I'm hoping Ricciardo will make it onto the podium again.

We're going to have a nice archive of this season if we discuss every race in this thread :).

Who are you guys going for today? I'm still too new to cheer for any one team or driver yet.

@gaggle64: thanks, I understand that, was just wondering if they had been caught at all by others in the mid-pack at all since in these early days it's still not exactly clear who has consistent pace. Mclaren, for example, appear to be struggling compared to last week despite having looked OK in the wet in Australia. Looking forward to seeing the Williams pair moving up today. Enjoy the race!

Gah, I'm so excited you guys, I just hope we don't lose big names so early to reliability issues today.

I am hoping for Alonso to podium.

Hamilton is Audi5000

Anyone else think this season might be duel between Merc and Red Bull?

Ricciardo showing Vettel what's what.

Flat tyre for Kimi and hes out of the podium :(

@mrfizzy: could be. When Hamilton went to Merc everyone said the move had whiffs of being a money grab but right now he is looking pretty smart.

Sky just showed the on-board view of Rosberg at the start and god damn these guys have nerves of steel. Had a couple of inches between him and the wall on his right and the same between him and Vettel on the left. Held on and took second.