Two major issues with the current comics movie trend

I am not someone that is right now completely onboard with the whole Marvel movies thing. I did see Avengers and Iron Man 3 in cinemas, and watched Iron Man 1 and 2 on DVD, and that is about it, so that is my background with the series, so feel free to call my opinions uninformed if you feel that is the case.

Anyway, I really don't know how to start this, so I'll just present what I think are problems this trend has right now.

1. The main characters are/never will be in any real danger

I don't mean that they won't encounter opposition or fight in big fights where the stakes are super high. The very moment you remember how crazy expansive this whole Marvel thing is getting, you know that no major superheroes are going to die anytime soon. Iron Man 3, Captain America: The Winter Soldier, and Thor 2 all suffer from this; you know that the main characters are going to come out on the other side, because The Avengers 2 is already a confirmed thing. And you know that in The Avengers 2 all will be well, because sequels to those stand-alone titles are already confirmed. And you know that they will be okay in those sequels, because Avengers 3 is probably going to be a thing, and so on, and so forth. The very model that Marvel has decided to adopt for their movies goes completely against any kind of tension that any individual film will try to create.

2. It has made the average movie-going audience seem easily exploitable

Guardians of the Galaxy is out to everyone on the 1st of August. And yet, this happened- http://www.mtv.com/news/1880446/guardians-of-the-galaxy-2-release-date/. Now, I'm not saying this is an issue because GotG will be a bad or good movie. I'm saying this is an issue because GotG isn't outyet. Basically, they know that because certain characters are in a certain film, it will sell, regardless of final quality (yes, I do realize there was a preview screening of the film for critics).
Edit to this point: A lot of you have mentioned that because GotG probably tested well, they have good reason to start the sequel. There's nothing wrong with this, I'm sure that this happens all the time, for all types of films. I just think it's wrong to start trying to generate hype for a GotG 2.

This is seeming pretty nitpicky even to me as I reread it, but I'll stick to my points. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

I actually I agree with what your saying. These films never have that sense of urgency that most of the best action films have. No one will die in these films cause a sequel or planned trilogy is already happening, and also the people behind the camera are an issue here. These guys like Kenneth Brannah shouldn't be directing action films, they lack the knowledge to do one.

Most of these comic films tend to get lost by its 3rd act, for example Cap2, The Wolverine, Man Of Steel, The Avengers, etc. all 4 imo range from ok(MOS) to good films but the directors tend to not know how to finish films and progress plot.

That's why imo The Dark Knight and Spiderman 2(Raimis spiderman) are the best comic films the past decade and are arguably the best ever alongside Superman 1 & 2, The Crow, Batman(89') and Blade 2. These films never felt tiresome and clearly the guys behind the camera knew what they wanted and understand plot progression.

Seriously how many of these comic films can stand next to Aliens, Terminator 2, Diehard, Bourne films, Heat, etc. very few have manage to impress me and imo it all starts and ends with the directors and the writers.

I guess my response would be that for fans of comic books this won't matter because this is true of the comics as well. I mean Batman is always going to succeed. Hell DC tried killing off both Batman and Superman and neither stuck. If you enjoy comics then you enjoy them despite knowing that at the end of most story arcs everything will be reset. You get occasional major change, but that is like a once a decade thing at most. Look at the films like episodic TV shows if you aren't into comics. One of my favorite episodes of Family Guy has a fourth wall breaking conclusion where after a bunch of crazy shit happens, Peter just looks directly at the camera and says that people were crazy if they thought any of that would stick because everything has to reset for next week.

I totally agree that the lack of tension takes away a lot from the Marvel Cinematic Universe but I also think that comic book fans are used to this type of thing. At some point you know Spiderman is never going to die. Nor is Wolverine or The Hulk. We just heard this week that Thor is being recast as a woman in the comics. Let me tell you how long that will last. About six months after which things will revert back to how they were. Same with Captain America. Completely changing a superhero is a very rare thing. I can think of three examples off the top of my head. The original Robin became Nightwing and was replaced by several characters over the years. Green Lantern was recreated to become Hal Jordan but that was in the 1950's after the character had been left unused for over a decade. He has been Hal Jordan (among others) since. And lastly Nick Fury started out as a white guy before becoming Samuel L Jackson.

I think if you've only seen Avengers and the three Iron Man movies you may not be in a good position to judge the Marvel movies as a whole?

Invincible plot armor for the main character - and most of the characters - doesn't mean that the story can't be a good or entertaining popcorn flick. People see these movies to watch superheroes beat the shit out of evil and everyone knows they're going to survive. They don't go to see the superheroes die. Sure, there isn't a lot of dramatic tension, but eh. Who cares?

I haven't seen the past few Marvel movies, either, but I don't think they're bad. I've just never been terribly interested in superheroes.

You could say the same for mooooost things though. It's rare that a main character will be killed off halfway through a film, book, videogame, etc. Even Shakespeare has the decency to wait until the end of his plays before murdering everyone. It's only sociopaths like George R.R.Martin that murder your favourite dudes at the drop of a hat, and the only reason he can do that is because his cast is so large that he can afford to lose a few.

For your first point ...

Life is a journey, not a destination. We all know they will be okay in the end, its watching them get out of said situation that makes it fun.

Although I will concede on the second point, it seems a bit early to be announcing sequels to movies before they have released. On the other hand if the money for the sequel has changed hands then why not start it already?

I agree, but at least they're not Transformers' movies...

I don't really get the second argument. It's the freakin Guardians of the Galaxy. The vast majority of people have no clue who they are. It's why Marvel has been pushing the hell out of this movie for the past six months. If anything, I think Marvel deserves credit for even taking a chance with such a C-tier team. Okay, to be fair, I guess it's kinda weird they announced a sequel already, but I don't really see that as exploiting anyone.

The release date could just be the studio giving fans the confidence in the work of the first film. No studio would greenlight a sequel if they didn't expect it to rake in some serious dough. Also just because they announced that a sequel is greenlit doesn't neccessarily mean it'll happen. I think Green Lantersn was in talks of sequels right before the films release but that talk flamed out after the studio exeecs realized people didn't really like it.

Yeah honestly I think they botched Avengers. They should have let Tony Stark die. The entire movie cap kept telling him that he was nothing but a rich guy in a fancy suit. The bit at the end of the movie was HIS moment. His moment to show everyone the kind of person he was aaaaaand instead they end it with a semi-comical moment as the hulk roars and "scares" Tony back to life.

That was my same issue with Batman as well. They don't have the balls to let anyone of importance die.

It makes me laugh to see these Marvel superhero movies praised by the same audiences who you just know sneer at the Transformers series. It's the same boring, market-honed trash, almost equally dull and predictable, helped just a bit by the extra effort they put into the writing and production. As long as it doesn't have Michael Bay's name on it.

Well, I don't remember any of these heroes dying off so quickly from the comics, so maybe that's kinda accurate? And studios announcing sequels so early usually means that the film proved very successful under testing, and the data yield high chances of profit for continuation.

Very valid points. I must admit, I am always put off when they announce sequels before the first film is even out. Even more so when then treat it like some bi spectacle. Guardians 2 should not be getting front page headlines on sites, it is kind of gross.

This is true for most action movies though and if you manage to make the characters compelling enough or throw in a few interesting twists (like in Winter Soldier) then it doesn't really matter to me. I have greatly enjoyed all of the Marvel movies despite the fact that I don't read comics at all. I tend to find most big action movies disappointing (Star Trek or The Hobbit) or just outright boring/terrible (Transformers, White House Down, Pompeii, Jack Ryan etc.). Marvel movies are just a lot of fun. Are they especially sophisticated? No they're not.They pretty much follow basic structures of storytelling and yet The Avengers is one of my favorite action movies of all time. The casting is near flawless, the humour hits a lot more often than it misses and most of the action scenes are great to look at. In addition Marvel manages to make each movie feel different at least that's what I've found. They're not all great but the consistency of quality is impressive to me. I understand they're not for everyone and I do share the concerns about how many movies are already planned and confirmed but as long as they entertain me as well as they have so far I'm going to keep watching them.

See the difference is that I enjoy the Marvel movies but can't stand the last Transformers movies. I actually fell asleep during Transformers 3 and have no intention to see the fourth one. Guardians of the Galaxy sits at 25 postive reviews at the moment but I guess those people have no idea what they're talking about.

I definitely agree with the first point. There's this part where it seems like a character is dead in one of the Marvel movies recently and it was really difficult to take it seriously because I knew the actor was on the hook for several more movies. It nullified a lot of the emotion I was supposed to feel for that element of the story.

I think that's why I enjoyed The Dark Knight so much. I mean you knew Joker won't kill the bat, and you knew that eventually the Joker will lose, but you also knew that the Joker will make Batman's life a complete hell.

I dunno, the stars might not necessarily die but stuff around them can have stakes. Honestly, in Avengers, when Iron Man goes through that portal at the end, I genuinely felt worry. And Coulson did die, for the most part. In Winter Soldier, the fact that Nick Fury was out so long, it almost seemed like he'd be gone for good. And remember, SHIELD straight up falls.

You never know, as the series goes on and people age, they may start killing them off at some point. They've toyed with sequences not always paying off, but they're just in phase 2 and things could get more dire. Especially with Joss Whedon having his influence. Plus, in comics you can have other people take the helm of a well known super hero. Except they may be permanent replacements on screen, since if Cap died and Chris Evans is 50, they wouldn't be able to bring him back to his former glory like comic books can.

And for sequels, I'd like to think that the quality of recent movies have been so high that it's why they're getting sequels ready. Winter Soldier was so fucking good, so having the Russos come back seemed like a smart move. And if Guardians of the Galaxy lives up to its fantastic reviews, why not get James Gunn back for a sequel? In the case of Captain America, I remember reading this article: "Negotiations wouldn’t begin until after 'Winter Soldier' bows but sources say Marvel has been so impressed with the production of the film, as well as with strong results from recent test screenings, that the studio has moved fast to attach the brothers to the next installment." These movies have been getting better, so I have faith that Marvel knows they need to continue maintaining the level of quality if they want to do this for 10+ years.

They're comic book movies. Comic book characters almost never die, even when they die. But I don't see why the risk of death must be the entire source of entertainment value. I don't watch those movies because I'm on the edge of my seat wondering if these characters will make it out alive.

I enjoyed the first Transformers movie, but it largely went downhill from there. That second movie is legitimately terrible, full of some of the worst attempts at humor I can recall from a big-budget movie.

Just want to point out that based on contracts for Chris Evans (Captain America) and Sebastian Stan (Bucky/Winter Soldier), and various statements Chris Evans has made about his career, Cap is going to die in Avengers 3 and Bucky will take up the mantle from that point on.

Also I personally have no problems with point 1. I'm not watching movies for the ending, I'm watching them for the moment to moment interactions between interesting characters and sick action sequences. And point 2 seems like a crazy nit-pick to make. What the fuck does it matter? We know like the next dozen marvel films all currently in production. Anyone who didn't think there was going to be a GotG 2 clearly hasn't been paying attention.

Death of Superman / Captain America Reborn / Batman TRoBW / Amazing Spiderman 700 etc etc etc

Publishers don't want to kill off superheroes because they don't wanna scare their audience off (maybe if they wrote good comics that wouldn't happen).

I'm pretty sure they would rather have the $Billion they made off of Iron Man 3 than your approval of their testicular fortitude :P

These truly are MAJOR ISSUES!!!!

People like to watch movies where the good guys win sometimes. It's true of most mediums. Death happens in comics, but very rarely does it stick. More the point heroes overcoming death is a big part of the mythology of comics. Wolverine will be dead soon in the Marvel 616, but HOW he comes back will be as a big an event as how he died. It's escapist fantasy, not high-class literature.

They're making a sequel to GOTG because they have enough data to suggest it will be worth their time and money. End of.

The world is pretty fucked right now... a few fun comic book movies don't matter that much. You can criticise their quality of course, but at the end of the day they're light entertainment. I've liked every Marvel movie so far (varying degrees, but none have been truly awful), I hope they keep making them.

I don't know why I find the announcement annoying. Just something about GotG 2 being already hyped before the release of 1 just rubs me the wrong way for whatever reason.

1. Joss Whedon isn't writing/directing all of them.

2. ?

Those two things are arguably the most important parts of any movie. Both franchises might be targeted at the same audience, but at least one of them is written and produced with a modicum of intelligence. Bay's Transformers movies are logically inconsistent and a mess of unintelligible explosions and indistinguishable robots. At least at any given moment in any given Marvel movie, I can tell who's punching who and why.