Who's going to watch the debate tonight?

I'll be watching it. All Obama has to do is sit back with his feet on a desk smiling and let Romney talk about anything, because nothing Romney says is intelligent.

@imsh_pl said:

@Castermhief117 said:

It might surprise you to know that Obama supported legislation that would offer more affordable loans to small businesses. People like to associate government jobs with lousy office jobs but a good bulk of it is scientists, teachers, police officers, hospitals, firemen, etc.

Furthermore, the whole expansion of the government thing isn't the biggest thing running down the deficit. It's simply the fact that all the baby boomers are now getting old and there's a huge disparity in who is paying for the social security. From what I recall, social security and medicare accounts for around 60-66% of our current debt problems.

Romney likes to say that he has solutions but has never said that he's willing to cut specific parts of social security or medicare only that he is for "reform". But this is a stance that both parties follow. Obama believes that investing in the health of Americans will ultimately make them healthier and more productive (better economy) but this belief hasn't been tested or supported by scientific evidence.

So to me, I'd much rather have a president who is more willing to invest on science and technology than a president who believes that the world is 6,000 years old and that the Garden of Eden was somewhere in Missouri.

By 'invest' you mean 'force other people to pay for under the threat of force', correct?

I'm sorry but you make it sound like the government has some resoucres to 'invest' and 'redistribute' which were not obtained through the barrel of a gun.

Same argument can be said about public roads, plumbing, public libraries, schools, and a whole array of things that people share. Societies create governments in order to instill safety and order. As a consequence, citizens have an obligation to pay taxes. Go live in Kenya if you don't want a government.

Also by invest, I mean invest. Science and technology are obviously the answer to many domestic and global problems. Investing in these fields has always generated innovation in many fronts that benefit everybody.

@Castermhief117 said:

Same argument can be said about public roads, plumbing, public libraries, schools, and a whole array of things that people share. Societies create governments in order to instill safety and order. As a consequence, citizens have an obligation to pay taxes. Go live in Kenya if you don't want a government.

So forcing people to pay for your services is good if they benefit others in some way, even if you personally wouldn't want these sevices, correct?

This is a pretty interesting site. Apparently, I'm a hippy. Oh well.

@imsh_pl said:

@Castermhief117 said:

Same argument can be said about public roads, plumbing, public libraries, schools, and a whole array of things that people share. Societies create governments in order to instill safety and order. As a consequence, citizens have an obligation to pay taxes. Go live in Kenya if you don't want a government.

So forcing people to pay for your services is good if they benefit others in some way, even if you personally wouldn't want these sevices, correct?

That's right. Even though some people don't believe in evolution, I'm glad that a public university uses tax payer money to fund scientific research that studies the genetic pathway of evolution.

For those who would care, the format for this election's debate has changed.  Previously, each candidate was given a question, and a set time to answer it with zero interruptions other than a red light, prompting nothing but pre-prepared speeches.  In an attempt to address criticisms of that format, the one tonight with be 6 questions with 15 minutes per question, split among the two candidates.  Each candidates will be allowed to make a 2-3 minute statement, after which the sole moderator will have the freedom to probe for deeper information from the candidates however he wishes, splitting the time however he wishes.  The only restraint placed on the candidates themselves at this point is they cannot ask each other questions.  So basically, it boils down to how much you trust Jim Lehre to make the best of his moderation powers.

Romney is going to get massacred.

I dunno. I might watch the debates. It depends on whether or not I think I'll be able to use them to teach my class. LOL.

@Castermhief117 said:

@imsh_pl said:

@Castermhief117 said:

Same argument can be said about public roads, plumbing, public libraries, schools, and a whole array of things that people share. Societies create governments in order to instill safety and order. As a consequence, citizens have an obligation to pay taxes. Go live in Kenya if you don't want a government.

So forcing people to pay for your services is good if they benefit others in some way, even if you personally wouldn't want these sevices, correct?

That's right. Even though some people don't believe in evolution, I'm glad that a public university uses tax payer money to fund scientific research that studies the genetic pathway of evolution.

So if there's a local mafia in your district which forces you to pay for protection - even if you don't want it - and justifies this extortion by saying that it has to use these resources to provide protection to other people - even if they don't want it - they are, in your mind, justified to do that, because even though they force you to pay the money benefits others in some way, correct?

I'll have to download/stream it later. Hopefully it's posted in a public place like youtube or something.

I'm watching it, but only because I hope it devolves into an a cappella rap battle. I heard something about "zingers", so I'm expected lyrics of the highest caliber.

@imsh_pl said:

@Castermhief117 said:

@imsh_pl said:

@Castermhief117 said:

Same argument can be said about public roads, plumbing, public libraries, schools, and a whole array of things that people share. Societies create governments in order to instill safety and order. As a consequence, citizens have an obligation to pay taxes. Go live in Kenya if you don't want a government.

So forcing people to pay for your services is good if they benefit others in some way, even if you personally wouldn't want these sevices, correct?

That's right. Even though some people don't believe in evolution, I'm glad that a public university uses tax payer money to fund scientific research that studies the genetic pathway of evolution.

So if there's a local mafia in your district which forces you to pay for protection - even if you don't want it - and justifies this extortion by saying that it has to use these resources to provide protection to other people - even if they don't want it - they are, in your mind, justified to do that, because even though they force you to pay the money benefits others in some way, correct?

You can compare the government to the mafia all you want and be totally reductive, but come back to me when you can vote for the leader of the Mafia, when the mafia provides and hires soldiers, teachers, policemen, hospitals, scientists, and a plethora of other services for your benefit.

Taking into account that every time you drive to school and work, you're using publicly paid roadways to get to your destination - I'd say your analogy is pretty lame.

Edit: This is futile. Secrest out.

I will be watching it because I care

@hidys said:

@Aegon said:

Will there be a livestream?

I would also like to know this.

@MrKlorox said:

I'll have to download/stream it later. Hopefully it's posted in a public place like youtube or something.

Youtube and a number of other sites are streaming it online.

@Castermhief117 said:

You can compare the government to the mafia all you want and be totally reductive, but come back to me when you can vote for the leader of the Mafia, when the mafia provides and hires soldiers, teachers, policemen, hospitals, scientists, and a plethora of other services for your benefit.

So if, say, once a year the mafia would say that everyone it extorts money from can throw a piece of paper with the name of the new mafia boss they'd like to have, the mafia would be justified in the theft? Also, if the mafia provided all of the services you listed, it wouldn't matter that they forced people to pay for them even if the victims didn't want it, correct?

Taking into account that every time you drive to school and work, you're using publicly paid roadways to get to your destination - I'd say your analogy is pretty lame.

So if I steal $100 and use it to provide an essential good you can't get anywhere else (because I eliminated the competition by force) and you used that good I would be justified in the theft, correct?

@imsh_pl said:

@Castermhief117 said:

You can compare the government to the mafia all you want and be totally reductive, but come back to me when you can vote for the leader of the Mafia, when the mafia provides and hires soldiers, teachers, policemen, hospitals, scientists, and a plethora of other services for your benefit.

So if, say, once a year the mafia would say that everyone it extorts money from can throw a piece of paper with the name of the new mafia boss they'd like to have, the mafia would be justified in the theft? Also, if the mafia provided all of the services you listed, it wouldn't matter that they forced people to pay for them even if the victims didn't want it, correct?

Taking into account that every time you drive to school and work, you're using publicly paid roadways to get to your destination - I'd say your analogy is pretty lame.

So if I steal $100 and use it to provide an essential good you can't get anywhere else (because I eliminated the competition by force) and you used that good I would be justified in the theft, correct?

You're only using the term "mafia" because it implies a bad connotation. But if you provide enough of these "if the mafia did this" and "enough of that", the mafia would be something totally different. But in some ways, you're right - it's how America came to be. A group of people illegally fought and victimized people for their beliefs and ideals.

But no matter how you frame it, society depends on governments to function.

Obama walks out on stage in his 'I Killed OBL!' t-shirt; debate and election rendered pointless. Flawless victory.

@Jimbo

Obama walks out on stage in his 'I Killed OBL!' t-shirt; debate and election rendered pointless. Flawless victory.

I'd vote for him if he came out in a Fuck Ryan Davis t-shirt

Edit: Stupid fucking mobile site editor is the worst.

No, fuck both of them. Obama's actually a pretty alright guy but seriously I wish he had a real competitor instead of Mitt Romney. The fact that Mitt Romney is the best that the GOP has to offer just shows how much the two party system needs to change drastically. I really wish we could get Gary Johnson or Jill Stein debating up there, since that would actually be interesting and would bring some new ideas to the table. Instead, we're going to hear the donkeys and elephants make noises at each other and echo all of their tired PR bullshit they've been spouting for the entire campaign already.

Is this that thing where both presidential candidates stand in front of the entire country and talk shit about one another like children? I can't tell if that would be fun to watch like a wrestling argument or the House of Commons, or just make me feel ashamed for them both. Probably the latter right?

@captain_clayman said:

No, fuck both of them. Obama's actually a pretty alright guy but seriously I wish he had a real competitor instead of Mitt Romney. The fact that Mitt Romney is the best that the GOP has to offer just shows how much the two party system needs to change drastically. I really wish we could get Gary Johnson or Jill Stein debating up there, since that would actually be interesting and would bring some new ideas to the table. Instead, we're going to hear the donkeys and elephants make noises at each other and echo all of their tired PR bullshit they've been spouting for the entire campaign already.

It's be cool to see Neil Tyson up there duking it out.

IT'S LIVE LET'S GET POLITICAL GIANT BOMB!

It's on.

I live in Canada, but I'll watch anyways.

IT'S LIVE!

HE'S NOT SAYING ANYTHING!!

Took my gf home, time to watch. Let's hope this gets interesting.

did he color his grey hair (obama)?

Mittens Romeny is so cute.

@Phatmac said:

Mittens Romeny is so cute.

I am mittbot take me to your whitehouse

"I like coal." Mitt Romney.

Mittens Romeny is so cute.

HEATED

Me. Hope it turns into a civil fist fight.

I'VE GOT 5 BOYS

I'M A HUMAN BEING PEOPLE

LOVE ME

It just needs to devolve down to "Yo Momma" jokes then it would be really entertaining.

@Animasta said:

I'VE GOT 5 BOYS

I'M A HUMAN BEING PEOPLE

LOVE ME

WANNA SEE MY WALLET

I HAVE PICTURES OF MY 5 BOYS

RIGHT HERE

how long ago did it start?

I AM THE THREE PERCENT

Not long. 10-15 minutes.

Will they eventually wear fat suits and wrestle?

If you want to die take a shot every time one of them says middle class

Visually when Romney is talking Obama smirks and smiles. When Obama speaks Romney has a sour look on his face.

@Funkydupe said:

Will they eventually wear fat suits and wrestle?

I would watch it then, no doubt.

It's still fuckin' weird to watch a presidential debate on my game console. How far we've come.

obama drawing on bill clinton vs. george bush... burn

HEY GUYS LET'S MOVE ON!

romney is an ass

HEY GUYS HE LIKES BIG BIRD!