GPU upgrade or Xbox One X

Hi, watching the games on the press conference made me really think. Currently I have a 970 and I definitely can't push those graphics on my PC. 1070 costs the same as Xbox One X and it definitely can't play anything in 4K, but I only have a 1440 monitor and that should be OK. Still, unless PC game optimization gets a lot better I wouldn't be able to supersample the games on my PC which the Xbox One X claims to do.

What do you guys think about the 1070 to Xbox One X comparison?

If the rest of your PC is up to par, buy a 1070 or 1080. Most of those Xbox One exclusives will make their way to PC anyway so it's a better investment.

i7 6700K, GTX 1080, ASUS ROG PG248Q G-Sync (1920x1080) @144Hz here.

Given the fact that most, if not all, Xbox games are coming to PC, I'll take performance and versatility over resolution any day.

I don't think the games that will be brought to One X will all be 4K at 60. Even if they manage to hit 60, how much of a trade-off are we speaking about? Running at medium settings in 4K doesn't sound great to me. But then again, that is the biggest hurdle right now; even the 1080 ti cannot run some current games at 4K at 60 on Ultra. I don't think 4K gaming at 60 on Ultra settings is do-able with a single card now, we'll have to probably wait for the next generation of cards.

For you, I will always suggest a PC over a gaming console. There is a million things you can do on your powerful PC if you so desire, whereas the $500 One X is only really for gaming and movies/tv-shows.

Get a 1070. I just did. Will pick it up tomorrow.

@daiphyer: My PC is great for productivity already, the only thing I would need more power for is gaming. This is obviously not a decision I have to make now. I'll wait for Xbox One X to be released and see if there is any new info on the next set of GTX cards.

If all you need is a graphics card and don't care about backwards compatibility or having a UHD blu ray player then you'd probably be better off just getting a graphics card.

Personally, I've reached a point where I'd just have to upgrade my entire Pc to get good graphics. I also spend less and less time playing on my Pc these days compared to my consoles so I'm definitely hopping aboard the 1X train.

It's a great question and perhaps a little too early to tell. Is backwards compatability a consideration? If not, you will likely find Microsoft's first party titles on PC anyway and there are countless other PC titles to take advantage of your new GPU.

With the amount the 1080 dropped due to the 1080Ti and the fact that the 1070 didn't drop as much, I would actually maybe recommend you get a 1080 at this point.

Have you already got an xbox one (none x)? if so you can just do your backwards compatibility on there and play the better xbox one x games on pc if you upgrade to a 1080. If you don't have an xbox one at all then I can see the "x" making more sense. My advice would be wait till later in the summer, NVidia and amd should have new cards out by then so the leap might be bigger than if you buy now, plus the gap between those and the "x" will be much larger.

Do you have a library of Xbox games you care about?

I can't tell if Microsoft are smart or crazy for Play Anywhere. There is no way I'll be buying an Xbox because of that program giving me their games, but they do at least have more PC gamers buying their software.

I think unless you really want a small box under the TV, or budget is a huge concern, there are not many reasons to buy an Xbox instead of a PC that can do so much more.

I doubt Microsoft are going to make good on their 4k claim either. I predict a lot of upscaling, checkerboarding and dynamic resolutions with a few actual 4k games.

Xbox one X is most likely using a 580 comparable apu from AMD, which is less than a 1070.

Don't believe the XB1X hype, for all the glitters and fluff, the console is still marred by a 2012 laptop-grade Jaguar CPU. You're still buying ancient technology.

You can either:

Enjoy all games on a PC at 1440p at 60 frames per second on a RIGHT NOW!

or...

Enjoy a handful games that support 1080p at 60fps starting novembre 7th.

How is this even a question?

1070 is almost 200 dollars cheaper than a scorpio, you could get a 1080ti for 100 more or probably find a deal at the same price . A 1070 isn't going to push 4k too great and a 1080 TI is about as close as you will get for 60 fps at higher settings. Scorpio looks great but most games aren't going to be getting 60 fps at the resolution IMO, but you also get a UHD blueray player which run for about 250 themselves so maybe it's worth it? I'm thinking about going for a One S just for the blueray but i'm on the fence, the scorpio just seems like to much for a console.

Also, i factor in that games are just generally cheaper on pc with a wider abundance of options to chose from as well, and if you're on windows 10 you can get all the exclusives anyway.

@dafdiego777: You should probably do some reading.

Investing in a new card Will be cheaper in the long run pc thened to discount there stuff pretty fast.

@falconer: I've read Digital Foundry's marketing push.

The closest equivalent to PlayStation 4 Pro's GPU in the PC space, in pure performance terms, is the Radeon RX 470 or an underclocked RX 480 - both mainstream graphics cards. The latter product typically overclocks to hit the same six-teraflop compute output as Project Scorpio.

From what I've seen so far, there is some evidence that Scorpio's true 4K performance could pose a challenge to the likes of Nvidia's GTX 1070

Emphasis on could. It seems like best case scenario, this thing is a mid range PC for $150 cheaper than a comparable pc build (which is fine). But I'm concerned that the CPU is still gonna bottleneck that GPU. It's generally not going to be pushing 4k60 (outside of forza) and settings will most likely still be at medium. There's a lot more customization that this thing is missing (i.e I'd rather have the option of pushing 100+ fps at 1080p, and a general 1440p 60 fps this thing could probably do).

You cannot compare performance in a console as if it were a PC. The optimization can do quite a bit to increase the performance of the Machine. Case and point digital foundry has witnessed forza on the x running at greater than 60 frames at 4k. A FX based PC with a RX 580 cannot do that.

I don't think they really care about where you buy their games as long as you buy them. If you purchase the title on the PC Xbox store it's the same to MS as if you purchased it from the console Xbox store. Furthermore for those of us with both a Xbox one and a PC it makes a great value proposition. If I want to play FH3 I usually play it on my console. That said, if my wife wants to watch TV I can simply head on over to my PC and start playing there. The game files are saved in the cloud so I can just pick up right where I left off. It's really nice.

As to your doubts, as I mentioned before, they brought DF to examine their claims (at least with Forza) this appears to be true. How long that remains true is another question. Most of the experts I've been hearing from say that 4k 60 fps was the goal and in most cases it appears developers have had no trouble hitting their marks.

I agree and this is possibly the best argument for a S or X. It's been absolutely fantastic to play some of my old favorites from last generation on my current box. If I can toss in my copies of Mech Assault or Crimson Skies and play those games again I'd be very happy.

With all that being said if you play primarily on the PC you should get a graphic card. The X is really for people who have 4k home theater setups already. If you don't already own an xbox one and only have a 1080 TV then it's simply buy the S. At 200 bucks and a additional 60 bucks for a live subscription, you'd be hard pressed not to make back your money from all the free games you'll get. Remember XBO owners get 4 free games a month not two. Sure two of those titles are 360 games, but usually those games are really good AAA games (ex. Dragon Age Origins is free this month). It still has a 4k blue ray player, up scales to 4k in games, supports 4k streaming, and has HDR so it's not like it's going to be a completely useless box in the future. Plus if you're like most people from last gen you probably have a very large digital MS arcade library. Buying an S means you'll get many of those games back, with more being added all the time. Honestly I really don't know why everyone who was a former 360 owner who wants to revisit old games doesn't buy S. The S is insane value per dollar IMHO.

If you choose to get a graphics I would wait few months for Vega (AMD's new high end graphics card line) to come out. I'm not saying it's going to be a better deal than the 1070 is, but there's a good chance it will at least be competitive. It would suck completely to drop 350 to 400 bones on a 1070 only to have it's price slashed in a few months or to have AMD's new card blow it completely out of the water at a similar price point.

They also managed to get Forza Motorsport 6 running 1080/60 on a regular xbox one. How many other Xbox One games ran like that? Just because you can get deeper level access to hardware doesn't mean every developer will take advantage of it.

so blame the hardware for being weak, or blame the devs for not taking advantage of the hardware they've got. which is it?

and it's not like you get anyone optimizing anything for PC anyway. i'm starting to think my gtx 1080 had quite the diminishing return on it...

I need to buy a whole new PC but don't want to spend more than 1k on it right now so I may just get this Xbox.

If you get the highest end PC you can (which is going to cost you more than 1,000, never mind the monitor and stuff) basically it still might not outperform this console. I'm not sure many people understand that. I've been repeating myself in these threads but I see it over and over again.

Yup.

@ripelivejam: Both? It's a racing game. Looks nice but I bet it's an easier time to optimize for 60fps than other types of games. The xbox CPU was (and probably still is) notoriously weak, which means optimization is generally costly to do.

And there's always going to be a performance tax on the XX80/Titan cards, but that's what you get when you're an early adopter.

LOL oh okay I see what kind of guy we are dealing with.

Yeah that's true, but on the other hand, they have to really commit long term for this to work out for them. If I only buy three of their games they would have made a lot more money if I had bought their console. Let's hope they don't hold back certain games. They are surely hoping to catch people who would not have bought an Xbox even if Play Anywhere didn't exist.

People are always bad at comparing console vs. PC costs because it isn't as simple as they think. To me a PC has more value because a high end PC gives me better results in Adobe software. I don't just use my PC for gaming, so the bang for buck is very high in my opinion.

You aren't getting a PC that matches the Xbox One X for $500, but a $500 PC is definitely going to be a more useful purchase on its own, obviously that's ignoring other computers you might have. Still, if you consider having a $500 console and then needing a $400 laptop to do computer stuff, that's essentially a $900 outlay (and all of this excludes TV or monitor costs too).

@artisanbreads:It's a preview event. Digital Foundry does excellent work, but they previewed a fucking tech demo

Regardless, Microsoft duly obliged, showing us a ForzaTech demonstration with the Xbox One engine operating at native 4K, at a locked 60fps.

DF saw a slice of one game running , and people are going around calling this better than a $1000-$1500 pc. I'm extremely skeptical about this claim.

No reason to buy an Xbox anything at this point if you have a decent gaming rig. All the games are on both consoles. Upgrade the GPU.

Better than a $1000 pc (7600K/gtx 1060)? Probably. Better than a $1500 pc (7700K/ GTX 1080)? Probably not.

@wynnduffy: Yeah I just don't know why people keep acting like they know what they are talking about with PC pricing or performance then. You can have a 1080 and not get good performance on 4k. I think they listened to PC gamers early in the generation and don't think this console is any different.

It will of course be different for everyone. I am a big PC guy so I get my value of it. But the cost of top level PC parts for me would be just for gaming basically for me and this can do the same for half the cost? It's value. Even if we want to quibble about the actual performance, as @mister_avatar says the console is going to be on par or outperform PCs that at least cost twice as much. I think a dedicated console with that power may surprise some people.

@artisanbreads: I mean, a 1080 is still respectable at 4k, but that would mean going for a console-like experience by being happy with around 30 FPS, definitely not something I would want if I'm swapping platforms, I'd rather go whole hog or lower my resolution

Now with that said, the games that are gonna be running at a true native 4k and at a smooth 60 are almost certainly going to be in the minority, as that would be very impressive and seems totally out of reach

@wynnduffy: yeah that's the thing, it's going to depend on developers but I think they will start getting it together. We have seen some slacking on the PS4 Pro for example (Prey on launch said it was enhanced but had ZERO enhancements until a recent patch) but I think Microsoft is really behind this and it is quite a bit more powerful.

I'll be upgrading my PC, I don't see any reason for an xbox for myself. Everything I'll want is going to be on PC and nothing that's exclusive on xbox I want to play. I might do a PS4 sometime in the future though, my gf will want a console to play on and just many more exclusives that I do want to play.

Get GPU. people here assume that something else beside 1st party will use "full potential" of X. Its highly doubtful since PlayStation will be the leading console since its way more popular and the game sales are better there.

If they allow you to change resolution and settings i think the Scorpio will be pretty damn good in comparison to mid range pc's, when used specifically for gaming obviously. If they force 4k and supersampling on everybody it will be a problem, and you will be getting 30fps games with higher res for the most part. I believe microsoft understands what they are doing though and will go the route that games like Nioh did and allow multiple settings in game for people who want fps or resolution. There really is no 4k 60fps gaming at max settings right now, without dual 1080ti's and still only in certain games that support it. HOWEVER i can get 1440p 60 and often times 1800p 60fps(comparable to 900p upscale for 1080p) with my gtx 1080(man i have to type 1080 a lot) which i think goes a long way. So if all you need is a gpu upgrade, dropping a 1080(500$) in there will be amazing if you are willing to go that route or play 1440p etc.

But like i said earlier you could factor in the price of games as well, plus the cost of online play etc in your decision. Scorpio will be a good console IMO, but without flexibility in settings will pale in comparison at 4k resolution and supersampling.

I was hoping the software on the new fartbox would bridge the pc console divide by being like a steambox but run full win10.

Guess that's not the case so I'm going to pass and stick with my beefy PC which is a shame because I would have loved having portable mid-high range PC to take with me because I'll be on the move a lot these next couple of years.

I'd sooner upgrade from my GTX 1080 than get that thing so I can enjoy both native 4K and 60 fps

Doesn't anyone own a recliner? :) I have a gaming pc and both xbox/ps4, and I'd always buy the console version over the pc version because:

can trade in the game

way less bugs generally

better online play/easier setup

can sit in a recliner and relax, I sit at a computer all day long

The xbox one X is going to be amazing for me. All the games I play now at 4k and better frame rates? Sweet.

As others have said, the fundamental flaw in your line of thought about this is that you're believing MS when they say the "X" is 4K capable - it is, but in the same way your 970 is 4K capable.... meaning, the times when it would really matter, it's not 4K capable. 4K @ 60 FPS, or even 30 FPS, is amazingly performance intensive, and even the Scorpio/X isn't there... and neither is the GTX 1080 Ti, even - not quite, at least, depending.

If it's only for gaming and you already own a 970, the Xbox One X is a much better option unless you just prefer gaming at a desk. It will outperform the 1070 and gives you more options since you already have a decent PC that should be able to run PC exclusives no problem since they tend to be less graphic intensive these days. Do you already have an Xbox One?

The best choice would probably be to wait another year and see what the next batch of video cards looks like. It's usually not a good idea to upgrade your video card every generation unless you just like spending money.

I think many people in this topic are really underestimating optimization that is possible on consoles. On PC standards PS4 is a shoebox, but it has produced some incredible visuals. Xbox One X is also not just a cheap PC, it's a custom enginered PC for gaming. How well it's all going to work in the real world is of cource not clear, but dismissing it on those terms is a bit much. I refer people back to the Digital Foundry article.

This is pretty much the only sensible option. I hope Xbox One X will make PC optimization better in some ways when developers design for a different specs on consoles too now.

The 1070 is a good deal more beefy than the RX480 derived hardware in the One X. You need to remember that most modern GPU's from the 480/1060 level up are perfectly capable of running 4K (30 or 60) once you knock down the settings a chunk and that's effective what the console versions do effectively.

@korwin: It's pretty meaningless to compare what's in a console versus PC GPUs unless you just care about theoretical performance.

• I never trade in games, but if I did I'd agree with you. I do like buying Used games so I am involved in that lifecycle. Fwiw I'm lazy enough I generally prefer the convenience of digital (not having to change discs)
• That's not as true as you might think. I will say when stuff goes it does tend to go worse on PC.
• depends on the game. I'd say Discord makes online play much much better for me on PC than on console. fwiw on a personal level I've got 4-5 times the number of active friends on PC than console. I realize that's different for most ppl though.
• I've got a steam link. I play most of my single player PC games on a recliner. Works like a champ.

Hope you don't mind me responding but thought your points weren't as clear slum dunks as you might think.

Glad you are excited for Xbox One X though! More good choices is always a good thing as people value different things.

I made the switch last year from a 760 to 1070 and sold my Xbox One. I definitely recommend it. I really prefer having the option to play games like Doom and Overwatch with a mouse and keyboard. I have also found that most of the time, I have an easier time finding matches in multiplayer games.

gpu no question

Hey, maybe you can help me out then with your pc setup in your recliner. What keyboard, mouse, and gamepad are you using? What do you set your mouse and keyboard on while in the recliner, do you have some specialized tray or lap desk? Maybe if I could figure out a better recliner setup it would be better.

The problem I have with online play on the pc is that a) there is no consistent ecosystem, b) the games have cheaters especially when it first comes out which is frustrating, c) sometimes voicechat is a chore with some games. It's great if you're playing one game online and have a consistent group, I used to play IL-2 and counterstrike online for years with a set of people, but it's awful when you have multiple groups of friends playing different games with no common way to communicate.

I have a GTX 1070 that I got last year (has it really been that long? I feel like I just got it) and I don't regret it. I see no point in an XBOX One X or PS 4 Pro when I don't have a 4k TV. On PC I get to choose where to put the extra power. Do I Want more FPS or better shadows or more anti-aliasing? BUt on console you are at the mercy of the developers and most of the time you see little to no benefit because all you get is upsampling but still equivalent to medium settings for textures and shadows and such compared to PC.

GPU upgrade 100%. Probably wait a couple months and the 1070/1080 prices will come down. Those cards are better than what is in the One X. Also get PC exclusives and Xbox exclusives on Windows.

There are a lot of considerations besides technical ones.

How's your steam library vs. your Xbox library?

Do you play a lot of MMO/MOBA PC exclusive stuff?

Keyboard and Mouse or Controller?

Where do your online buddies play?

@hunkulese: That's somewhat less true than what it used to be as the current crop of machines share an near identical hardware base to current PC's. There are still obviously advantages from the closed nature of the platform such as the lack of a driver layer between API and GPU but Vulkan and DX12 do knock down that advantage somewhat when properly exploited. Ultimately rendering at 4K isn't too hard for a 1060/RX580/480 once you bump down the detail settings to the same sort of level you get from the console versions of games.

Sure, happy to help.

I don't use keyboard and mouse at the TV. If I'm playing a game that needs that, I'll go to the actual PC and play at the desk. But that those are often games that aren't really playable on controller anyway (like DOTA 2 or Civilization).

I've used several different controllers with the Link, it seems like it works with nearly anything. Now granted most games don't offer native support for anything other than Xbox layout, so 360 pads or Xbox One pads are probably the easiest solution. Currently I'm using a WiiU Pro controller because I like that controller and don't care if the button prompts are inverted since I don't look at the controller when I'm using anyway. I used 360 pads for a long time, but I keep trashing those and I don't like Xbox controller d-pads at all (I play a lot of 2d platformers and fighting games so a decent d-pad matters to me).

I also have a Steam controller and I use that occasionally. It's handy if you need to navigate the desktop or if you want to play a game that doesn't offer native controller support (like a point and clikc adventure game). I wouldn't recommend it for anything that requires speedy accurate input though.

I've also used PS3 controllers with it, but I don't like messing with them much since most games natively have Xinput.

Re: your other issues

1. a)-yeah that's true but my solution for C mainly takes care of that. Steam has the majority of what I need multiplayer wis. For single player I can get all the other clients games to run through Link (have not tried Win 10 store games). Uplay runs just fine through the Link. Origin and GoG games you can just add the title to Steam as a "Non Steam game" and they will run just fine. You do need to close their respective clients before launching them though. But in essence you bring everything you need into your Steam client. I can get Blizzard games to run through it too, but there isn't a game from that I wouldn't rather play on M&KB.
2. b)- In my experience cheaters are on console too. maybe it's just the titles I play but PC seems a lot better in terms of cheaters than it was 5-10 years ago. I feel like I usually get fair matches in Overwatch, DOTA 2 etc. I'm sure it depends on the title and the risk is definitely still a little higher on PC. But like a lot of things I
3. c)-That's where Discord comes in for me. It eliminates that multiple group multiple game problem. We use it for every game we play (the Division, DOTA 2, Overwatch, Heroes of the Storm, Titanfall 2, DIablo 3 etc). Check it out, it's free and super easy to use. It's like the best combination of Teamspeak, Skype and IM combined into one place. It's literally changed how I play games, My friends list has exploded since I've been on there and I've never in my multiple decades of gaming had so many ppl to play with. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people you know already use it. It's become incredibly popular.

As far as the negatives go, the biggest issues I've run into are the older ports that don't have great controller support, the occasionally poorly optimized port (like Batman: Arkham Knight) and the fact that PC games have so many settings you can tweak you can waste a lot of time optimizing it if you are picky.

I do feel like the gap between PC and console in experience has never been closer. Consoles are more PC like and PCs can now nearly mimic the console experience. I will say there is still a small amount of fiddling to get your PC configured for a Steam Link console like experience ( usually involving controllers configuration) , but once I did it it's been pretty plug and play ever since.

So if you already have a PC that plays , give the link a try if it interests you. It only costs about 50 bucks and it almost certainly will work with controllers you already own. It's not quite as easy as a console, but it's pretty dang easy these days.

The only thing I miss about console ecosystem is some of the Sony exclusives which are only on PS4.