Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I hate Dynasty Warriors and love Kessen. Why would Koei make a new Kessen game when Dynasty Warriors already fills that nice little niche? I would goddamn kill for a new Kessen game, but at this point would that just be a new Dynasty Warriors sub-franchise? Does the Kessen name even hold any water any more, especially compared to the Dynasty Warriors name? Any talk about a new Kessen is basically 4 years old at this point, besides the odd thread here and there, and I just wanna see if some duders out there would want to play some fucking Kessen.

I think you may have gameplay completely confused. DW is about you as one super powered person running around in the middle of a big battle killing hundreds of men with a few button presses.

Kessen is a Strategy game were you move you troops on the battle map and when there is clash of army's you get a little cinematic of action. Then comes out for you to command your troops again. If anything the gameplay is Shogun Total War than Dynasty warriors.

Meaning if it was going to be DW with kessen gameplay....you would just send one super powered man into to kill 2000 troops. DW cannot be slapped onto Kessen. Because gameplays are too different ones exaggerated while the others more simulation.

Man, Kessen 2 is one of my favourite games, it was so good. So I would love another game in the style of 2, I didn't enjoy 3 any where near as much. Also I don't really enjoy the Dynasty Warriors games as much either. I feel Kessen especially 2 tries for a more strategic approach rather than mainly button mashing.

@Akyho said:

I think you may have gameplay completely confused. DW is about you as one super powered person running around in the middle of a big battle killing hundreds of men with a few button presses.

Kessen is a Strategy game were you move you troops on the battle map and when there is clash of army's you get a little cinematic of action. Then comes out for you to command your troops again. If anything the gameplay is Shogun Total War than Dynasty warriors.

Meaning if it was going to be DW with kessen gameplay....you would just send one super powered man into to kill 2000 troops. DW cannot be slapped onto Kessen. Because gameplays are too different ones exaggerated while the others more simulation.

Yeah, but it'd be pretty easy for them to just make Kessen 4 and slap Dynasty Warriors: Subtitle onto the front of the box. They do play pretty differently, but I think they still fill the same gap to some extent. I just don't think Koei would support both franchises without a ton of crossover or turning Kessen into "Dynasty Warriors; The Kessen Trilogy!"

@Laticsfan: Yeah, man. Kessen II all the way! Kessen III had some magic stuff I just didn't jive with, or at least from what I can remember that's why I liked that game less.

You don't really seem to understand the differences in those franchises. Kessen is a completely different beast from Dynasty Warriors in all of its incarnations.

I would love a new Kessen but I doubt we''ll see one anytime soon. As for KOEI strategy games, I prefer Dynasty Tactics but I would gladly take either game at this point.

@Hailinel said:

You don't really seem to understand the differences in those franchises. Kessen is a completely different beast from Dynasty Warriors in all of its incarnations.

Dude, I know the difference, but from the outside there's no denying that they're incredibly similar. I just don't think Koei would support both at the same time without tons of crossover, or a total melding of Kessen into Dynasty Warriors. Would Koei make a Kessen game or a DW Tactics game? At this point I don't think Kessen can exist as a franchise, or at least if it continues to get made by Koei while they still have Dynasty Warriors.

@Hailinel said:

You don't really seem to understand the differences in those franchises. Kessen is a completely different beast from Dynasty Warriors in all of its incarnations.

Dude, I know the difference, but from the outside there's no denying that they're incredibly similar. I just don't think Koei would support both at the same time without tons of crossover, or a total melding of Kessen into Dynasty Warriors. Would Koei make a Kessen game or a DW Tactics game?

@Hailinel said:

@UnrealDP

@Hailinel said:

You don't really seem to understand the differences in those franchises. Kessen is a completely different beast from Dynasty Warriors in all of its incarnations.

Dude, I know the difference, but from the outside there's no denying that they're incredibly similar. I just don't think Koei would support both at the same time without tons of crossover, or a total melding of Kessen into Dynasty Warriors. Would Koei make a Kessen game or a DW Tactics game?

They're not that similar, seriously. One is an action strategy game in which the player takes control of multiple units with different tactical abilities, unit placement is critical, and numerous decisions are made even before battle. Dynasty Warriors is a straight-forward action game in which the player is a on-man army.

The only similarities they arguably share is aesthetics. For whatever the hell that's worth in a Koei game.

@Hailinel: They've both always looked very similar from the outside and both been strategy games. They've always played pretty differently, but always were close enough in genre and always looked uncannily similar, not to mention from the same people. It's like Blizzard having a MOBA about space marines and Starcraft at the same time. I think Blizzard would have a hard time keeping the two separate and they're much bigger than Koei. I'm just sayin that right now the Kessen franchise couldn't exist without just being part of the Dynasty Warriors brand. The Kessen name hardly holds water in this day and age, and a small company like Koei would have a hell of a time keeping the two franchises apart, it'd be senseless.

The story and characters they use are all part of each other since the story and lore from some funny japanese novel thing, but completely different gameplay anyway, i guess kessen 2 was sorta dynasty warriors DW when you clashed with another army and it went all third person roaming around killing peeps on a horse but that's bout it, although a new kessen would be great, 2 and 3 were up there with my fav ps2 games.

@EpicSteve: Yeah, totally. They play super different, but the aesthetics from the character design, the era, and even the weird blend of Japanese magic in fighting is similar enough that at this point why wouldn't they just call it Dynasty Warriors: Eternal Kessener or something.

@KittyMeggerz: Weird, I never knew they were based on the same novel, crazy. I played the hell out of Kessen II and yet I remember nada about the story.

@UnrealDP: Kessen 2 is based on the Chinese novel about the Three Kingdoms era which is the same novel that Dynasty Warriors is based on. Kessen 1 and 3 are about Feudal Japan.

@TopSteer: Yeah I was just reading Wikipedia, I kind of can't believe I forgot as much of Kessen's story as I did.

My 3 cents. I've played the crap out of the Dynasty Warriors franchise, never played a Kessen game. I did see box art and screen shots for the games tho and it does look similar to DW.

Today I've seen some game-play of it and it the only similarities to DW are big armies and mostly the same Dynasties fighting (I seen Nobunaga, he's in all that shit).

In DW the character you play as is basically Neo from the Matrix while K is...more army control and special area of effect spells that effect the other army.

@UnrealDP said:

@TopSteer: Yeah I was just reading Wikipedia, I kind of can't believe I forgot as much of Kessen's story as I did.

I don't remember much of the stories in the first two games, but I really liked the story and how they portrayed Nobunaga in three.

@Hailinel: Christ, it's not like I'm insulting the goddamn franchises here, man. Hostility a little unwarranted. Dynasty Warriors has the Exact same look, style, era, and is apparently based on the novel as the Kessen games, not to mention Koei being a true constant as well. In DW you order officers and troops around in the planning phase before hand, just like Kessen, but just not as in-depth. You use the exact same weapons across franchises due to the era and all that. There's the same distinct blend of magic and semi-realism present in both franchises. In both games you capture fortresses to proceed and even those look really similar. The only differences are gameplay ones and even those aren't all that drastic at a point, hell you even fight with the same groups and landmasses (excluding Kessen II).

You never responded to my Blizzard comparison. Lets say Blizzard had a game where you play as space marines fighting Zerg and Protoss on the same landmasses that appeared in Starcraft 2. The game looks very similar to Starcraft. You still control units, just not as indepthly and more before a battle before becoming more of a heroes game. Why would they not just put Starcraft on that games name? That is literally the Kessen scenario except Koei is such a small dev compared to Blizzard that at this point it makes no sense for them not to just slap DW on Kessen's title.

I cannot see how you can even compare them the one is an action game and the other is a bastard child from the romance of the three kingdoms games.

You do know that Dynasty Warriors came first, right?

Why ask Dynasty Warriors to change its name? Kessen should be the one to change.

@Icicle7x3: Actually I was saying Koei at this point would slap Dynasty Warriors on Kessen not the other way around....

@UnrealDP: The pre-planning stuff in DW was all very basic and you never really had any control over what your allies did. The Empires spin-offs are the closest the Warriors series has come to actual strategy.

I'm failing to see how either games are similar aside from aesthetics.  In other words, the only people that would confuse one game for the other would be those with no familiarity with or care for either franchises anyways.

@TopSteer: Yeah, I was referring to 6 and 6 empires. They're Still mainline DW games where you give your officers directions before a battle, there's also a bit of officer directing in battle as well, just not very much.

@Hailinel: Christ, it's not like I'm insulting the goddamn franchises here, man. Hostility a little unwarranted. Dynasty Warriors has the Exact same look, style, era, and is apparently based on the novel as the Kessen games, not to mention Koei being a true constant as well. In DW you order officers and troops around in the planning phase before hand, just like Kessen, but just not as in-depth. You use the exact same weapons across franchises due to the era and all that. There's the same distinct blend of magic and semi-realism present in both franchises. In both games you capture fortresses to proceed and even those look really similar. The only differences are gameplay ones and even those aren't all that drastic at a point, hell you even fight with the same groups and landmasses (excluding Kessen II).

You never responded to my Blizzard comparison. Lets say Blizzard had a game where you play as space marines fighting Zerg and Protoss on the same landmasses that appeared in Starcraft 2. The game looks very similar to Starcraft. You still control units, just not as indepthly and more before a battle before becoming more of a heroes game. Why would they not just put Starcraft on that games name? That is literally the Kessen scenario except Koei is such a small dev compared to Blizzard that at this point it makes no sense for them not to just slap DW on Kessen's title.

@Turambar: It's harder to see because there haven't been any new Kessen games. Check Kessen 3 and Dynasty Warriors 4, they're both put out by Koei and super similar even in gameplay to some extent. If you were to make a Kessen game today, why wouldn't you just slap Dynasty Warriors on it is all I'm saying, this is Koei we're talking about. They've got no shame in crossovers, that's for sure.

I think if they were to make another one it would be a japan-only release.

@Turambar: It's harder to see because there haven't been any new Kessen games. Check Kessen 3 and Dynasty Warriors 4, they're both put out by Koei and super similar except for some basic gameplay stuff. If you were to make a Kessen game today, why wouldn't you just slap Dynasty Warriors on it is all I'm saying, this is Koei we're talking about. They've got no shame in crossovers, that's for sure.

Wait, what the hell happened to Kingdom Under Fire 2?

@Turambar: You're not really saying why I'm wrong, I don't really see where I would be. The point of this thread was to see if anyone still had some love for Kessen and there really isn't a "So what?" . I was just wondering if people thought Kessen could survive on its own with Dynasty Warriors already being the MVP of Koei, so to speak.

@Turambar: You're not really saying why I'm wrong, I don't really see where I would be. The point of this thread was to see if anyone still had some love for Kessen and there really isn't a "So what?" . I was just wondering if people thought Kessen could survive on its own with Dynasty Warriors already being the MVP of Koei, so to speak.

@Turambar: You're not really saying why I'm wrong, I don't really see where I would be. The point of this thread was to see if anyone still had some love for Kessen and there really isn't a "So what?" . I was just wondering if people thought Kessen could survive on its own with Dynasty Warriors already being the MVP of Koei, so to speak.

@Hailinel: First, that whole three kingdoms thing is a similarity between the two franchises, but that whole Byzantine as hell novel adaptation ordeal is something I didn't try to delve into, so good for you on that one, eh? Second, I've played enough DW 6: Empires to know you give officers orders and basic placement before a battle, along with orders during the battle. As for my Starcraft example, it's as if Starcraft: Ghost was called "Spectoid" or something and they decided to release it today. Why wouldn't they just brand it with a stronger brand like Starcraft? It feels like you're just blatantly ignoring similarities in the franchises. Why wouldn't they name Kessen after Dynasty Warriors at this point?

@Hailinel: That was to Turambar, you really should start listening, er, reading....

@Turambar: Dawn of War is a strategy game. Dawn of War: Space Marine is an action game. DW and Kessen are even more similar in genre than that and yet you cry heresy at the thought of the two combining, even while they're both under Koei. Like I've said, Koei is so crossover happy that why wouldn't they combine the two? It's uncharacteristic of them not to!

@Hailinel said:

@UnrealDP

@Hailinel said:

You don't really seem to understand the differences in those franchises. Kessen is a completely different beast from Dynasty Warriors in all of its incarnations.

Dude, I know the difference, but from the outside there's no denying that they're incredibly similar. I just don't think Koei would support both at the same time without tons of crossover, or a total melding of Kessen into Dynasty Warriors. Would Koei make a Kessen game or a DW Tactics game?

They're not that similar, seriously. One is an action strategy game in which the player takes control of multiple units with different tactical abilities, unit placement is critical, and numerous decisions are made even before battle. Dynasty Warriors is a straight-forward action game in which the player is a on-man army.

An on-man army, huh. Maybe that's hot, or maybe it's just Valentine's day, I don't know.

@Hailinel: First, that whole three kingdoms thing is a similarity between the two franchises, but that whole Byzantine as hell novel adaptation ordeal is something I didn't try to delve into, so good for you on that one, eh? Second, I've played enough DW 6: Empires to know you give officers orders and basic placement before a battle, along with orders during the battle. As for my Starcraft example, it's as if Starcraft: Ghost was called "Spectoid" or something and they decided to release it today. Why wouldn't they just brand it with a stronger brand like Starcraft? It feels like you're just blatantly ignoring similarities in the franchises. Why wouldn't they name Kessen after Dynasty Warriors at this point?

I really enjoyed Romance of the Three Kingdoms III on SNES.

It isn't Dawn of War: Space Marine, it is Warhammer 40k: Space Marine.

Edit: Typing numbers is hard.

@Hailinel said:

@UnrealDP

@Hailinel: First, that whole three kingdoms thing is a similarity between the two franchises, but that whole Byzantine as hell novel adaptation ordeal is something I didn't try to delve into, so good for you on that one, eh? Second, I've played enough DW 6: Empires to know you give officers orders and basic placement before a battle, along with orders during the battle. As for my Starcraft example, it's as if Starcraft: Ghost was called "Spectoid" or something and they decided to release it today. Why wouldn't they just brand it with a stronger brand like Starcraft? It feels like you're just blatantly ignoring similarities in the franchises. Why wouldn't they name Kessen after Dynasty Warriors at this point?

Because Kessen is a recognized name of a series that plays nothing like Dynasty Warriors. The strategy elements of the Empires expansions are incredibly lightweight and have no resemblance to the gameplay in Kessen. And understanding the natures of the various adaptations is not byzantine in the least. It's very easy to see where the differences are if you're at all familiar with the games in question. Perhaps you should spend less time being hostile and more time researching before blabbing about how the franchises relate.

Oh my god, they're totally comparable series! You have to be doing this on purpose for christ's sake! You've been entirely unreasonable throughout this entire thing, you need to see someone else's perspective on this. Are you telling me that Koei of all developers wouldn't make a crossover game? You'd have to be blind not to see the similarities ripe for crossover between the two. This isn't really going anywhere and you're being as stubborn as a bride-to-be on Valentines day, in fact, it's totally Valentines day, isn't it? I've gotta go, I'll see you chaps later.

The Kessen name definitely doesn't mean anything to most people now (arguably then, too), so yes putting Dynasty Warriors in front of it would make some sense. Though, if you already know what Dynasty Warriors is and play it you'll probably buy it without the name change anyway. Them both being Japanese niche titles.

Also, if you can't see that Kessen and Dynasty warriors look similar, then get some fucking glasses.

@Zacagawea said:

The Kessen name definitely doesn't mean anything to most people now (arguably then, too), so yes putting Dynasty Warriors in front of it would make some sense. Though, if you already know what Dynasty Warriors is and play it you'll probably buy it without the name change anyway. Them both being Japanese niche titles.

Also, if you can't see that Kessen and Dynasty warriors look similar, then get some fucking glasses.

They're similar in they're set in Three Kingdoms China and (in comparison with Samurai Warriors) Warring States Era Japan, and thus share aesthetic similarities based on those times and places. That does not mean that they are the same in terms of gameplay.

Here is footage of a Kessen III battle:

And here's footage of a Dynasty Warriors 6: Empires battle:

Can comparisons be made in the gameplay? Yes. Is the gameplay, pacing, and flow of a Kessen battle in any way like a Dynasty Warriors battle? No. Kessen puts more emphasis on tactics, statistics, and strategy, whereas a sufficiently powered player character in Empires can barrel through an entire battle even on the hardest difficulty by himself. Despite what strategy elements are added in the Empires installments, it is still an action game.

@Hailinel: That was to Turambar, you really should start listening, er, reading....

@Turambar: Dawn of War is a strategy game. Dawn of War: Space Marine is an action game. DW and Kessen are even more similar in genre than that and yet you cry heresy at the thought of the two combining, even while they're both under Koei. Like I've said, Koei is so crossover happy that why wouldn't they combine the two? It's uncharacteristic of them not to!

Oh cool, this thread is still a thing, awesome!

@Turambar said:

@UnrealDP said:

@Hailinel: That was to Turambar, you really should start listening, er, reading....

@Turambar: Dawn of War is a strategy game. Dawn of War: Space Marine is an action game. DW and Kessen are even more similar in genre than that and yet you cry heresy at the thought of the two combining, even while they're both under Koei. Like I've said, Koei is so crossover happy that why wouldn't they combine the two? It's uncharacteristic of them not to!

That is proving my point more than anything else. Space Marines and Warhammer 40k are entirely different games. No one who actually knows/cares about the two of them would claim otherwise.

Actually the full name of Space Marine is Warhammer® 40,000®: Space Marine, I just thought that was a given....

@Hailinel: Hey, you guys are still going at it, cool! You've kind of proven my point in your post above, in that the basic gameplay is similar and everything around the gameplay is strikingly similar. Why would Koei make a Kessen game when Dynasty Warriors is more relevant? They already have Empires, so why wouldn't they just release Dynasty Warriors: Kessen/Empire Subtitle or a new Dynasty Warriors Tactics game? This coming from Koei, who already sub-franchises the hell out of the Dynasty Warriors name.

By your argument Dynasty Warriors: DS Fighters Battle shouldn't have been a DW game, same with the aforementioned DW Tactics. Sure they weren't preexisting franchises,but your argument is just similarity and those games barely had connection to DW, in fact Tactics could have just been a Kessen game. Kessen had just as much to do with DW as those games. By your argument Tactics Should have been a Kessen game.

I get where you're coming from, it's kinda like what Atlus did with Persona by slapping the Shin Megami Tensei name on it.

Sure, I've never even heard of Kessen until today, slapping the Dinasty Warriors name on it would at least make me aware of its existence.

@Hailinel: I definitely agree that, gameplay wise, they're not all that similar, and I wasn't disagreeing with that statement. All I was saying is that acting like they are completely different or not understanding how you could compare the two (visually) seems crazy. I don't think anybody explicitly said they don't look similar, but I was getting that vibe. From an outsiders perspective though, they could certainly pass for being the same game or series.

In terms of Koei doing a crossover game, yeah sure. Those crazy Japanese motherfuckers do crazy Japanese stuff. Rebranding Kessen with DW on it is something else. I don't think that slapping the Dynasty Warriors name on it would be end up being more profitable, especially if that's all your doing and not changing shit. If your blending those games together (this gets in crossover territory) I think putting DW makes buckets of sense. I don't think Koei won't do another Kessen just because of them happily milking DW for these few years, if that's what he was getting at.

I don't really know...anything. I only skimmed this thread once and I am tired so I will stop typing.

Video games.

@Zacagawea: Yeah I can get behind this, but why would you call it Kessen when you could call it Dynasty Warriors: Kessen. You're throwing away free money, man!

Oh cool, this thread is still a thing, awesome!

@Turambar said:

@UnrealDP said:

@Hailinel: That was to Turambar, you really should start listening, er, reading....

@Turambar: Dawn of War is a strategy game. Dawn of War: Space Marine is an action game. DW and Kessen are even more similar in genre than that and yet you cry heresy at the thought of the two combining, even while they're both under Koei. Like I've said, Koei is so crossover happy that why wouldn't they combine the two? It's uncharacteristic of them not to!

That is proving my point more than anything else. Space Marines and Warhammer 40k are entirely different games. No one who actually knows/cares about the two of them would claim otherwise.

Actually the full name of Space Marine is Warhammer® 40,000®: Space Marine, I just thought that was a given....

@Hailinel: Hey, you guys are still going at it, cool! You've kind of proven my point in your post above, in that the basic gameplay is similar and everything around the gameplay is strikingly similar. Why would Koei make a Kessen game when Dynasty Warriors is more relevant? They already have Empires, so why wouldn't they just release Dynasty Warriors: Kessen/Empire Subtitle or a new Dynasty Warriors Tactics game? This coming from Koei, who already sub-franchises the hell out of the Dynasty Warriors name.

By your argument Dynasty Warriors: DS Fighters Battle shouldn't have been a DW game, same with the aforementioned DW Tactics. Sure they weren't preexisting franchises,but your argument is just similarity and those games barely had connection to DW, in fact Tactics could have just been a Kessen game. Kessen had just as much to do with DW as those games. By your argument Tactics Should have been a Kessen game.

@UnrealDP said:

@Zacagawea: Yeah I can get behind this, but why would you call it Kessen when you could call it Dynasty Warriors: Kessen. You're throwing away free money, man!

Because Kessen is not Dynasty Warriors. You obviously weren't paying close enough attention to the gameplay videos I provided, because they demonstrate very clearly how different the two styles of play are.

Further, Dynasty Tactics is called Dynasty Tactics, not Dynasty Warriors Tactics. It's a game themed after Romance of the Three Kingdoms but it is not a Dynasty Warriors games. Dynasty Warriors DS Fighters Battle is a Dynasty Warriors spin-off, much the same as Samuai Warriors: Katana is a spin-off of Samurai Warriors.

Both Dynasty Warriors and Kessen are of different lineages. Dynasty Warriors is made by Omega Force. Kessen is a different game series developed by an internal team at Koei and produced by Yoichi Erakawa (a.k.a. Kou Shibusawa), who is ia key player in the company's long-running historical simulation war games like Romance of the Three Kingdoms and Nobunaga's Ambition. People that want to play a Kessen game do not want to play a game that plays like Dynasty Warriors. They want to play a game that plays like Kessen.