I've played the demo 4 times now and I'm very excited for this game. There's just one thing that's a big issue for me. I don't care about things like camera views and combat styles -- all that comes down to preference. And I know the bugs have been ironed out "and some were actually created when they deleted data to make the demo smaller). It's the character creation. You can only select from a few faces and match them with hairstyles, change the colors around and stick a couple decals like tattoos on them. This is barely an improvement from Morrowind, released over a decade ago. A system this dated makes the UI look downright futuristic.
 
I've scoured the internets for some assurance that the character creation we saw in the demo isn't the final version. Sadly, all I see is people trying to justify the fact that we cannot adjust the faces of our characters, AT ALL. "Oh, I don't like designing characters anyway". What would such fanboys say if they removed the Sky from the game -- "Oh, I don't look up much anyway"?
 
I get it, I'm really excited for this game, too. But a character creation system from over a decade ago is not okay. 
 
Now, if you can find some assurance that I failed to find about these limits only being in the demo, please rip me one if you have to but just assure me I can change something about the character's face. Anything. 
 
This is not game-breaking for me, but it is the biggest flaw in the game so far. A game is allowed at least 1 major flaw. After all, I was able to take two match-ups of face and hair and make them look good. So I could do at least two playthroughs of this game. But I was looking forward to more like twice that, at least. C'mon.

Cause a Character creator does not make or break a game. They are not boasting that kinda thing. Not to mention chances are soon you'll just have your face hidden with a mask or helm. 

Cause a Character creator does not make or break a game. They are not boasting that kinda thing. Not to mention chances are soon you'll just have your face hidden with a mask or helm. 

@The_Laughing_Man said:

Cause a Character creator does not make or break a game. They are not boasting that kinda thing. Not to mention chances are soon you'll just have your face hidden with a mask or helm. 

Yeah, you are going to be wearing a helmet most of the time I am sure. Plus, I've grown tired over the years of using long in depth character creators, sometimes I just want to play the game.

There have been good RPGs with far more limited customisation (if any).

It may be a feature typical of the genre, but it isn't a requirement and it isn't crucial. Chill.

@CJduke said:

@The_Laughing_Man said:

Cause a Character creator does not make or break a game. They are not boasting that kinda thing. Not to mention chances are soon you'll just have your face hidden with a mask or helm. 

Yeah, you are going to be wearing a helmet most of the time I am sure. Plus, I've grown tired over the years of using long in depth character creators, sometimes I just want to play the game.

In Oblivion I spent a wile making a  Blue Argonian. Within 20 mins I had a helm. Skyrim. Same thing. He awesome tattos. Lots of work...20 mins Helm. All of these games you are 90% of the time seeing the back of their heads or are in First person mode. Even then chances are your gonna get a helm or mask to hide everything. 

There have been good RPGs with far more limited customisation (if any). It may be a feature typical of the genre, but it isn't a requirement and it isn't crucial. Chill.

Would be nice though if they did the same as what was done in Fable2 with the character customization & just put that in a way to unlock that early on in the game to a great deal of freedom on making your character more unique.

Would be nice though if they did the same as what was done in Fable2 with the character customization & just put that in a way to unlock that early on in the game to a great deal of freedom on making your character more unique.

Honestly not all good RPG's have to have an indepth character creator. Like @The_Laughing_Man point out The Witcher 1, 2 does not have any character customization. Neither did Fable 1 which a lot of people are touting this as the true successor to.

I actually think it has just the right amount of customisation, you can choose from some pretty cool tattoos, the only thing I'd like is the ability to make the piercings silver instead of a crazy bronze orange.

The argument that you'll be wearing a helmet is invalid since you take it off for dialogue and cutscenes and also there's an option to hide it. The game has a pretty decent amount of stuff though so I don't get it, this isn't the sims.

There have been good RPGs with far more limited customisation (if any). It may be a feature typical of the genre, but it isn't a requirement and it isn't crucial. Chill.

@The_Laughing_Man: 

@CJduke

: 
 
 
"LOL HELMETS" doesn't justify it. If I recall correctly, helmets are hidden by default, anyway. 
 
And no one said it was game breaking -- no strawmen, please/ Although I could see it being far more game-breaking than the crap people usually whine about. I can easily see someone not getting invested in their character because they had so little input into it. 
 

@Tim_the_Corsair

said:

There have been good RPGs with far more limited customisation (if any). It may be a feature typical of the genre, but it isn't a requirement and it isn't crucial. Chill.

 A game centered around a particular character is completely different from one where you make your own character. To bring up the former as justification for bad character creation in the latter is a red herring. The fact is, this game is one where you're supposed to make a character of your own design and it is stunningly limited on options -- it's not just "streamlined" so you can "just play", it's missing things that should be there.  I haven't seen a game that didn't give you a premade character to play that was this limited since Morrowind and that's something worth pointing out.  

I have no intentions on buying the game and I can say that the character creator was fine. I actually prefer the 'choose preset pieces' to 'adjust these sliders.' That's because generally it's next to impossible to make something look quasi-human with the slider system--look at Oblivion. And even still, I feel like the amount of preset pieces here is pretty significant.

I guess the developers figured it is better to spend time on the actual gameplay than building a face creator that gets used for 15 minutes at the start of the game and never again.

It is kind of funny how it worked out. Skyrim has all this fancy facial modeling stuff but because it is first person you never see your face (not even in the inventory screen). On the other hand, KOA has less options yet a lot of cut scene moments where the camera is cutting between conversations and getting some nice close ups of your character.

In Skyrim you will also find yourself sporting a helmet before too long so even if you wanted to admire your creation you cannot. On the other hand, KOA gives you the option to toggle the helm display (like WOW). So you get the benefit of the helmet (you actually see it on your character in the inventory screen) but it doesn't display in the game or cut scenes.

I'm fine with the customization. It is not a deal breaker and still gives you enough options to cultivate your own look.

Have you seen the mustache you can put on that Almain, thats all the customization you need.

If I can't make my character look exactly like Terry O'Quinn, I'm gonna be very disappointed.

I wish more games took the pre-built method of picking a characters appearance, it's easier to immerse yourself into something if there's no disparity between the character designs/quality, biggest offender of that was Mass Effect for me, the player generated heads were/are far less detailed than the default character and the main crew and I found it incredibly jarring, no amount of skill with that character creator can help in making something as detailed.

KotOR did it best for me with having a great selection of pre-made heads that suited a bunch of different playthroughs or playstyles, I want more of that.

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@Storms said:

@The_Laughing_Man:

@CJduke

:


"LOL HELMETS" doesn't justify it. If I recall correctly, helmets are hidden by default, anyway.

And no one said it was game breaking -- no strawmen, please/ Although I could see it being far more game-breaking than the crap people usually whine about. I can easily see someone not getting invested in their character because they had so little input into it.

@Tim_the_Corsair

said:

There have been good RPGs with far more limited customisation (if any). It may be a feature typical of the genre, but it isn't a requirement and it isn't crucial. Chill.

A game centered around a particular character is completely different from one where you make your own character. To bring up the former as justification for bad character creation in the latter is a red herring. The fact is, this game is one where you're supposed to make a character of your own design and it is stunningly limited on options -- it's not just "streamlined" so you can "just play", it's missing things that should be there. I haven't seen a game that didn't give you a premade character to play that was this limited since Morrowind and that's something worth pointing out.

Just because you can make your person look a certain way does not mean your invested in them. And Helms do bring a big point. Why bother when it will just be covered. (this does not apply JUST for this game. You can not throw away this because the game hides that) I did not play around with that much at call because well..90% of the time ill be staring at the back of his head. Also as to the topic" WHY should anyone be talking about it? It does not break the game. It does not play a major impact.

I could dismiss your point about helms as easily as you dismiss OPs problems with the limited character creator by saying I don't wear helms because I want to see my characters face.

And the OP said expicitely that the limited character creator isn't game-breaking for him, but that the character creator is the biggest flaw in the game, a game that he's actually very excited for. Though I suppose you were just responding to the topic in the framework of the title. Probably should have given the thread a different title since it seems he wanted a discussion on the character creator itself, not whether or not the character creator matters over all.

As far as I'm concerned, the aesthetic of the game is unappealing anyways. Once I got past the fate-reader guy I had totally checked out and was strictly in it for the combat, and all of my quams with the character creator having few options were dead.

If I can't play as Wario then the character creator has failed and I don't care.
 
So almost every game ever.
 
If this is the biggest flaw you can find in the game then it sounds like the best game ever made and I should download that demo right now.

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@Storms said:

@The_Laughing_Man:

@CJduke

:


"LOL HELMETS" doesn't justify it. If I recall correctly, helmets are hidden by default, anyway.

And no one said it was game breaking -- no strawmen, please/ Although I could see it being far more game-breaking than the crap people usually whine about. I can easily see someone not getting invested in their character because they had so little input into it.

@Tim_the_Corsair

said:

There have been good RPGs with far more limited customisation (if any). It may be a feature typical of the genre, but it isn't a requirement and it isn't crucial. Chill.

A game centered around a particular character is completely different from one where you make your own character. To bring up the former as justification for bad character creation in the latter is a red herring. The fact is, this game is one where you're supposed to make a character of your own design and it is stunningly limited on options -- it's not just "streamlined" so you can "just play", it's missing things that should be there. I haven't seen a game that didn't give you a premade character to play that was this limited since Morrowind and that's something worth pointing out.

Just because you can make your person look a certain way does not mean your invested in them. And Helms do bring a big point. Why bother when it will just be covered. (this does not apply JUST for this game. You can not throw away this because the game hides that) I did not play around with that much at call because well..90% of the time ill be staring at the back of his head. Also as to the topic" WHY should anyone be talking about it? It does not break the game. It does not play a major impact.

I could dismiss your point about helms as easily as you dismiss OPs problems with the limited character creator by saying I don't wear helms because I want to see my characters face.

And the OP said expicitely that the limited character creator isn't game-breaking for him, but that the character creator is the biggest flaw in the game, a game that he's actually very excited for. Though I suppose you were just responding to the topic in the framework of the title. Probably should have given the thread a different title since it seems he wanted a discussion on the character creator itself, not whether or not the character creator matters over all.

As far as I'm concerned, the aesthetic of the game is unappealing anyways. Once I got past the fate-reader guy I had totally checked out and was strictly in it for the combat, and all of my quams with the character creator having few options were dead.

@LordXavierBritish: I think Wario actually is one of the presets. in the first human race, the religious and warlike ones. I forget what they're called, they have dark hair.

I think the character creator is limited in the demo. Meaning that the full game will have more options.

umm they have a feature in the game where it gives you all the stats of armor but with out having to wear a helmet its in one of their previews for it somewhere :/

I think the character creator is limited in the demo. Meaning that the full game will have more options.

Just like you don't care about some things ("I don't care about things like camera views and combat styles..."), some people don't care about character creation. To them, it is just a pile of pixels and polygons that doesn't really matter. Most likely, the developers decided to focus on something they felt had more importance to them. You can't please everybody.

Like you, I really didn't like my options in the character creator. And having this poor of a character creator will honestly make me wait on the game getting cheaper. Maybe my wrestling games have just spoiled me with too many options, but I enjoy doing all that stuff. In Dragon Age I never wore a helmet and preferred it that way. Isn't this the same arguement that people were freaking out about when in Mass Effect 2 you couldn't remove helmets. Why is it ok now?

Just like you don't care about some things ("I don't care about things like camera views and combat styles..."), some people don't care about character creation. 

To them, it is just a pile of pixels and polygons that doesn't really matter. 

 Most likely, the developers decided to focus on something they felt had more importance to them. You can't please everybody. 

@Storms said:

@The_Laughing_Man:
@CJduke:


"LOL HELMETS" doesn't justify it. If I recall correctly, helmets are hidden by default, anyway.

And no one said it was game breaking -- no strawmen, please/ Although I could see it being far more game-breaking than the crap people usually whine about. I can easily see someone not getting invested in their character because they had so little input into it.

@Tim_the_Corsair said:

There have been good RPGs with far more limited customisation (if any). It may be a feature typical of the genre, but it isn't a requirement and it isn't crucial. Chill.

A game centered around a particular character is completely different from one where you make your own character. To bring up the former as justification for bad character creation in the latter is a red herring. The fact is, this game is one where you're supposed to make a character of your own design and it is stunningly limited on options -- it's not just "streamlined" so you can "just play", it's missing things that should be there. I haven't seen a game that didn't give you a premade character to play that was this limited since Morrowind and that's something worth pointing out.

I never mentioned character driven games.

Go back and play either Dragon Age, NWN 1 or 2, Jade Empire, KOTOR 1 or 2, any of the classic Infinity Engine Games, or the vast majority of MMORPGs (which this game, like it or not, is the predecessor too, and may well form the basis of) etc, etc, and you'll find that character creation is typically exactly like what is available here (if not slightly worse).

The Skyrim/Oblivion/Mass Effect method is growing in popularity, and is definitely an option I prefer, but to claim it "should be there" is a bit of a stretch.

A crappy character creation tool sounds like a big deal to me. I really like fleshing out my face into video games.

The "You'll rarely see it" bit doesn't really speak to me either, as I don't tend to spend 24 hours in front of a mirror. Seeing my occasional reflection is pretty comforting and leads to immersion.

It's a big reason I have trouble getting into The Witcher and some other games. I'm not playing a game to satisfy some other asshole's wish fulfillment. I especially have a hard time getting emotionally invested when my character looks ugly as shit, as Geralt of Rivia, or Garcia Hotspur, or whatever.

I personally don't mind it. I'd like to have more options, sure, but there are enough to where I can make a character that looks cool. And you can always change your appearance in-game if you get tired of it or find that it doesn't look as good in-game as you thought it would.

Mass Effect has also a set of presets, so...

I don't know. It doesn't break the game, but I've also never cared about character creation too much, because it's rare for my characters to look unique. I typically choose a preset and then modify it slightly.

@The_Laughing_Man said:

Cause a Character creator does not make or break a game. They are not boasting that kinda thing. Not to mention chances are soon you'll just have your face hidden with a mask or helm.

I never put on helmets. Not in Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim, not in Dragon Age or Two Worlds either. Not in any games I've played with equipable headwear that covers the face. Even if I have to take the disadvantage of less armor, I always want to see the head/face of my character, because that's what makes him unique. Having a feel of uniqueness to your created character has become some kind of standard in RPGs nowadays, and getting stripped of that privilege really is kinda disappointing.

However, if the game has enough positive aspects to make up for that, I can accept it.

Yeah, but can I change the size of my elf girl's tits?

I find character creation to be more frustrating than anything. I like being able to adjust a few things, but "cheek gaunt" and "brow depth" are just too damn meticulous. Between Mass Effect 1 and 2 ive probably created 15+ Commander Shepards, and every one of them has something goofy with their face. My last female Shep looked perfect until I actually started playing, and her top lip sticks way out and looks ridiculous. My main Soldier looked perfect until I started playing him, and he looks like he had a cleft palatte. I would like to see a little more customization in KOA, but its going to be an amazing game either way.

It's fine for me. I do enjoy twiddling about for like 40 minutes across dozens of sliders and shit, but sometimes I can appreciate when they only hand you bare basics, and I can enter in after only like 5 minutes with a relatively decent looking character. And at the very least, the variety of facial hair is quite phenomenal.

@McGhee said:

Yeah, but can I change the size of my elf girl's tits?

...But the lack of a Sex Appeal slider is rather disconcerting, I have to admit. :o

Its fine. I understand you wanting a more robust system an I enjoy fiddling with that stuff too but I think saying basically 'this is 2012, this implimentation is lazy and bad' is going a little far. If it bugs you that much I get it but this is more of preference thing then a bad game mechanic.

Dude I MADE A WHOLE THREAD ABOUT IT!!...people acted like I was making this shit up....

rape dungeon

I'm terrible at making characters that anyone would want to talk to, so I'm okay with the guys that know what the fuck they're doing handling it for me.

Seriously, I finally gave in and made a cat-guy in Skyrim because any human-looking character would have been left to the wolves at birth.

Gamers are so spoiled these days. Would people rather have no options so they can't QQ about there being limited options?

Cause a Character creator does not make or break a game. 

@david3cm said:

Have you seen the mustache you can put on that Almain, thats all the customization you need.

Yes. The facial hair technology is pretty great. If I want super granular customization I'll go play Saints Row 3.

@Storms: To the OP, people have talked about it: http://www.giantbomb.com/kingdoms-of-amalur-reckoning/61-30330/this-character-creator-is-terrible/35-533057/#47 now we have a duplicate thread where people are forced to repeat stuff already said.

@The_Laughing_Man: @CJduke: People have different preferences. To many character creation IS important even if it is not to you. Some people played Skyrim in 3rd person and there are plenty of open helmets in the game (i saw my characters face constantly because of the way i played). In Reckoning you see your character very often due to the dialogue system and shitty faces would detract from someone's enjoyment, especially since you just stand there silently like a statue and all you can do is look at the face. Just because to you it's not a major part of the game doesn't mean it's not to others. :)

@Storms: To the OP, people have talked about it: http://www.giantbomb.com/kingdoms-of-amalur-reckoning/61-30330/this-character-creator-is-terrible/35-533057/#47 now we have a duplicate thread where people are forced to repeat stuff already said.

@The_Laughing_Man: @CJduke: People have different preferences. To many character creation IS important even if it is not to you. Some people played Skyrim in 3rd person and there are plenty of open helmets in the game (i saw my characters face constantly because of the way i played). In Reckoning you see your character very often due to the dialogue system and shitty faces would detract from someone's enjoyment, especially since you just stand there silently like a statue and all you can do is look at the face. Just because to you it's not a major part of the game doesn't mean it's not to others. :)

I don't find the character creator that offensive, sure it doesn't give you a full catalog of options but it gives you enough to make your character your own and that is enough for me.