I'm just really disappointed and finding it awful so far. Apologies for the potentially rant-like nature of this post, but you know what its like when something you've looked forward to disappoints and annoys you, and you need to vent a little.

Firstly I'll just say I LOVE MP 1&2. At the start of this one when Max uttered the line about finishing off some guy and named himself a 'dime store angel of death', I thought that was brilliant.

However as soon as I was actually in control of Max it just felt kinda....off. First of all I wanted to change the controls back to how they were in the previous 2, but theres no preset (out of FOUR) that lets you do that, nor can you manually adjust any button either. The aiming had a lethargic feel to it, and was either too twitchy when locked on to feel confident pulling off headshots, or its WAY too repetitive where you just hold the left trigger, and then the right until they die.

The soft lock auto-targets dudes behind cover instead of the guy firing at me, or locks onto some flying grenade and then it takes me ages to force the aim back to the person I wanted to aim at in the first place. When the levels (so far) are set up to throw dudes at you from around upcoming corners, the free aim doesn't let you react fast enough, not to mention the fact Max dies almost immediately if anyone gets the drop on you. In the first 2 if your reticle was near enemies it would slightly auto-target, freeing you up to refine your aim, but still dealing damage, where instead with this you have soft/hard lock where you just juggle the triggers, or fine aim that is too finicky to be reliable.

I must have replayed the section just after the helicopter RPG shoot about 10 times because of shitty A.I plugging me in the back, or running around and killing me with an instant melee attack. Am I just playing it wrong? I don't see the point in introducing a cover mechanic into a game that used to be about just plowing through dudes, because if you pop out to shoot a guy, some other enemy just finishes you off. Cover seems like its meant to be fleeting and unreliable, but when they're pushing for a game where the protagonist dies VERY easily, you should be able to take your time and work through a scenario.

Speaking of taking your time, during the club scene I was doing a quick lap around the area to get ammo, and some cutscene kicked in where Max was on the phone going 'sorry, I let them get away, its my fault' and I get a fail screen!! Where's my timer? How the hell was I meant to know they were imposing a literal time limit to that part of the story? Therefore now I'm rushing through areas because of whats happening, not salvaging ammo or knowing if I'm playing properly.

Oh and the constant flashes and blurred vision filters in cutscenes are annoying as HELL. Utterly unnecessary and are genuinely quite sickening to keep looking at, as for me anyway it kinda makes my eyes hurt with the pulsating changes in colour, contrast and focus.

I don't mean to start some giant hate thread, but objectively I think there are elements lacking from this that actually make it fun to engage enemies, not to mention the weird pacing so far where I feel like I should be running and gunning but also hanging back at the same time!

Do you guys have any control tips for sensitivity or layout that would make it feel more like the previous games? Or gameplay tips in general? How have you been playing, more like the older games, or have you adapted a new approach?

Cheers, and thanks for reading if you got this far haha!

sounds like you're being super nitpicky.

also how is the enemy AI shitty if they're flanking you and using tactics to beat you? its actually really good AI, they'll flank and flush you out if you let them.

the game is challenging, but thats a GOOD THING. even on normal i died all the time. i like that Max isn't a bullet sponge and that you have to play smart. if you bunker down behind cover you'll die, if you go full frontal run and gun you'll die, you have to have a good mix of the two and it keeps you on your toes.

personally i loved every second of it. the story was pretty good, the characters were great, the gunplay was intense and fun. good set piece moments. the game was pretty hard but always in a fair way, i never felt like i was dying unfairly (if a guy flanks you thats YOUR FAULT, not the games rofl). not to mention the multiplayer is surprisingly really good and fun. gangwars rocks.

sounds like you're having a hard time with the game and are blaming the game instead of acknowledging you're screwing up.

Hmm, i guess its just finding the mix of the two styles, I haven't found the way it expects you to play yet.

Looking through the other threads it seems ALOT of people hate the aiming jus as much as I do! Its such a sluggish feel on the default settings, I/we shouldnt have to fumble about in menus over and over to try and make it work.

The movement and aiming were initial hurdles. For whatever reason R* can't seem to nail this shit in their games but i've gotten used to it. 
 
You really have to mix up shootdodging with taking cover. That's the only way to approach it that won't lead to immense amounts of frustration. 
 
The whole "running out of time" thing caught me by surprise too as i was looking for clues and golden parts but it only happens on like 2 early chapters IIRC. Otherwise you're free to more or less move at your own pace.

im sure your not the only one. but i bought the game yesterday and played some of it and loved it. played the campaign and multiplayer, its fun as hell for sure. been playing MW3 and Skyrim for months. I needed a great single player game like this and its great.

@ShalashaskaUK666 I faced similar issues with this game, Unfortunately this game doesnt even feel like max payne. I hate the controls and the cover mechanic in this game, the previous installations made you feel like a hardcore killing machine but this game I died in the first chapter heck the only way I can survive in hard mode is by running from cover to cover which means NO MORE BULLET TIME! Since then my aim has improved but even so the only time I use bullet time is when I know only 1 or max 2 enemies are left or if someone is rushing towards me otherwise the fragile Max will die, and yes even the cover mechanic is flawed.

Speaking of taking your time, during the club scene I was doing a quick lap around the area to get ammo, and some cutscene kicked in where Max was on the phone going 'sorry, I let them get away, its my fault' and I get a fail screen!! Where's my timer? How the hell was I meant to know they were imposing a literal time limit to that part of the story? Therefore now I'm rushing through areas because of whats happening, not salvaging ammo or knowing if I'm playing properly.

This was so absurd the same thing happened to me, its so insanely stupid that they have these clues, golden items and painkillers which we need to find yet this shit happens...... I just dont get it. To tell you the truth I wasnt looking for any items I was just shooting the clubbers in the head haha. (the only time I felt powerful in the game :P)

Do you guys have any control tips for sensitivity or layout that would make it feel more like the previous games? Or gameplay tips in general? How have you been playing, more like the older games, or have you adapted a new approach?

After a lot of experimentation I found myself cofortable at 4 sensitivity for all three options ,and if you are using the the auto-lock the I suggest that while using cover keep popping in and out along with shots as this puts your aim at your targets everytime, you can even mix in bullet time during this if its too hectic, but remember that when your in bullet time to keep popping in and out coz the enemies will still be shooting at you.

I am surprised you did not have anything to say about the rolling mechanic, its so slow and lethargic. For someone who can jump off terraces and helicopters like spiderman, he rolls like a square barrel.

Lastly I will say that I found the dialouges and cutscenes very entertaining & impressive to say the least, and till now the story has been quite intruging. cheers.

I found that during my playthrough they were caught between updating it to a modern third person shooter and keeping classic max payne elements, resulting in a game that just feels off. They give you cover but force you out of it with enemies that will flank you, but made Max super fragile so you die rather quickly. I agree the gun/gameplay feels off and is extremely frustrating at times, due mostly to poor level design, but I enjoyed the stylistic changes they made to the game.

Edit: When I say stylistic I mean in terms of story and narrative, not gameplay style.

@ShalashaskaUK666 said:

Do you guys have any control tips for sensitivity or layout that would make it feel more like the previous games? Or gameplay tips in general? How have you been playing, more like the older games, or have you adapted a new approach?

Adjust your aiming acceleration to remove any "friction" on the reticle; that's the most important step to fix your aiming issues. I suggest switching to free aim so you can accurately land headshots, otherwise the auto-lock takes too much control away from the player. Also enable both the target tracking and slowdown settings so your reticle has some magnetism.

It all takes some getting used to and can be frustrating at first when you don't know what to expect from the enemy. As for not being able to react fast enough, that's what bullet time is for. I found shootdodging the most effective way to handle combat, usually killing 2 or 3 dudes per dodge - you just have to decide where it's safe to land. Ideally, you should stay in motion during gunfights with the occasional pause behind cover to reload or to survey the area.

Manually activating bullet time with the stick and then strafing around enemy bullets is doable similar to Max Payne 2 but not quite as overpowered in this game, thus I relied on shootdodging more than anything.

Wait are people really complaining that there is not a clear clock on the level where your client is kidnapped? I mean Jesus how much hand holding do you want?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. If R* doesn't have some sort of time limit then they're just making their game lose any urgency they've built up, if they add a clock it pull away from immersiveness, and for the record I'm quite sure he makes a comment about needing to hurry up before you fail.

If you are in an area with a lot of cover using Shootdodge to move between cover is very effective. Especially when there is horizontal cover, like behind a piller and you jump left or right to wind up behind a different piller. | | ---->_ | i |

I think the four star score after reading how people react to the mechanics and the visual style to the cutscenes does make it more appropriate. The way the review was worded made it sound like it deserved five stars

Are we seriously still making threads with the title "Am I the only one?" How is this not outlawed by now?

I wouldn't say that I hate it, but there are a lot of things I do not like about the game. I also got the failscreen in the section you described and was baffled by it. I wanted to look for clues or find gold parts, as a matter of fact I just picked up one when I got that failscreen. What's most annoying so far is that the game still doesn't feel like a Max Payne game even though it tries to be.

I have 2 comments.

1.You wrote:

"First of all I wanted to change the controls back to how they were in the previous 2"

I played max Payne 1 on a pc, I don't recall a console version. If you did play it in pc, gameplay support back then was very uneven, and logitech has one of the few duel stick controllers, or maybe I am remembering wrong, I'm just wondering where your control scheme preference comes from.

2. Your description of the controls and aiming being "off" was my impression if Max Payme 1, I hated it. Nothing to do with auto aim or anything, that was mouse and keyboard, just something about the camera, FOV, I don't know, but it killed my interest in he franchise and third person shooters in general (until gears).

I meant "gamepad"

Stick with it. Once it all clicks, you'll be shootdodging just like in the old games, taking out enemies like a pro. You'll probably still die a lot, it IS a hard game, but you can absolutely play it like 1 and 2. When I went back and replayed the first chapter in Arcade and New York Minute after learning the systems, it felt wonderful.

Vertical sensitivity: 7

Horizontal sensitivity: 7

Aiming acceleration: 8

Free Aim

If that doesn't solve your aiming dilemma I don't know what to tell you.

@Brendan said:

Are we seriously still making threads with the title "Am I the only one?" How is this not outlawed by now?

Over/under is always <24 hours of release.

I've been rocking free aim with default settings. It was off putting at first but I got used to the aiming pretty quickly. As for the "effects" they are nessary in the way that its what they use to mask the loading. If you noticed there is ZERO loading screens during the game. I've become quickly accustomed to them and they aren't bothersome to me really. The fluidity of the game moving right along with no load times really sucks you in even more. Im a huge fan of the first two as well and I've been really enjoying it to the point where I might have to consider it personal GOTY material.

No. You're probably not the only one not liking Max Payne 3, but that doesn't make you any less crazy.

I'm just messing with you. But seriously, this game is amazing.. It made me realize just how much i've been missing this series and Max's wonderful monologues.

@Brendan said:

Are we seriously still making threads with the title "Am I the only one?" How is this not outlawed by now?

Why do people feel the need to point this out? it;s just a saying, it's not meant to be taken literally, but anytime someone says it, another person feels th need to point out that you're never the only one.

I'm on the last chapter, and although I think there's a lot to like about the game in terms of story and presentation, it's been been a total fucking slog for me I can't wait for it to be over.

This game's amazing, don't know what all the fuss is about. I'm playing on hard and I'm currently on the last(I think) chapter.

The game has changed but so have games in general, if rockstar

Didn't update the gameplay people would be bitching too, it would have gotten old fast and it wouldn't have fit with the serious tone of the new facelift.

It's a challenge and personally I think that's a good thing, tough games are few and far between these days.

NO. ARRRGGGGGHHHH.

Sorry, my brain melted for a second there.

(sorry for the triple post, on my phone and can't edit)

One more thing, the idea of playing this or any other game using any sort of aim assist/lock on is ridiculous, do you want the game to play itself for you?

The amount of hand holding going on in this industry these days is a shame and a detriment to the quality of the industry as a whole.

Ok I'm done now.

My issue comes from the auto-target capabilities of the enemies. If a guy with at least a submachine gun locks onto you, you're nearly dead in three hits, a shotgun blast from about five feet away will kill you instantly, and a grenade is almost always instant death. And the second one guy auto-locks to you, they all do, making the combat extremely frustrating, because you're supposed to be versatile, but you can't when the second you poke your head out, you're being descended on by three assault rifles. I can barely pinch off a shot, how do you expect me to throw myself around like a maniac?

And this is all in part with Max's clunky movement which severely hinders your movement capabilities. If Max didn't move like he did, I wouldn't be bothered by what I listed above.

The story is amazing. I only had a problem with one cutscene toward the middle of the game where Max is talking to his boss in his office. It was a lengthy, chilled conversation so I thought they could have toned down the flickering and color separation, but otherwise that stuff was fine by me. I also thought that the AI was really good.

But other than that, everything else relating to gameplay drove me crazy. I played on Hard with free aim, and I just beat the game yesterday. I probably wouldn't be writing this if it hadn't been for the last chapter that made me want to break things while yelling and swearing.

The problem is that even after finishing the game, I never felt like I'd figured out how to properly play the game. Every frustrating part I got to, I'd just kept trying over and over until I eventually got through it. It felt like the game knew how many times I tried so it lower the enemy accuracy or something, and just let me pass... Seriously.

I'm not going to repeat what a lot of people already said, but I agree with a lot of it. I just felt like when I died it was merely bad luck rather than something I did wrong. And when I lived it was, a lot of times, just good luck rather than something I did right.

There was never any point where the gameplay "clicked" for me, and yet I still beat the game on Hard with free aim. That makes me think that luck was a major factor. And that sucks.

Yes, you are the ONLY ONE. You are the Highlander of hating Max Payne 3.

@hbkdx12 said:

@WVUEers: I'm pretty sure most of the frustration comes from the fact that the game incorporates hidden collectibles. So if you decide to take your time and look for them, the whole running out of time thing will certainly get you by surprise.

When I first read the main post I agreed with WVUers, but remembering this I can see why it is so frustrating. They just need to make a balance between that stuff. The ammo part isn't a big deal, but if they are going to put tons of collectibles hidden around the levels, then they either shouldn't put a timer on or they should remove collectibles from that section. You can check the pause screen to see if there are any collectibles left in the level.

Just an update from me, as I THINK I'm enjoying this. It's weird isn't it, to not be sure?

Just when I think I have the controls down and I'm popping 4 headshots in a single shootdodge, there'll be an instance where I dont feel I had any other choice but to get killed, or a GODAWFUL sniper section.

Speaking of which, I genuinely cannot fathom why they thought it would be a good idea to reverse the aiming for the sniper sections, and especially if you pick up a gun with a scope. Holding the left trigger reverses the controls mid-firefight, and then you're back to normal again. Its MADDENING they thought that was a good design choice, absolutely fucking mental.

Anyway after one FANTASTIC shootout in an office block, I was left reeling from the intensity of it all. Debris was scattered everywhere, and office stationary was torn apart and piled on top of a stack of corpses, all riddled with bullet holes. It's made me realise, ALL of these movement options, the lack of precision you feel when controlling Max; it's all an artistic choice from Rockstar.

Now bare with me on this, but here's my take on how weird the mechanics in this game are. I mean if this stuff wasn't intentional, it would mean they NEVER playtested or had any quality control guys before launch.

SO, for Max it's a total struggle to do his work, he's down, out and essentially dying (through slow degredation, not some plot spoiler). Each firefight is a slog, a complete an utter crapshoot, where he just throws himself in and hopes he can survive and do SOMETHING worthwhile. That being said, does it make the game 'fun' and 'enjoyable'? Not necessarily.

It does however make it engaging and intense, which is why so far its been a very selective few who can find pleasure within that. I think, after playing up to chapter 7 so far, that we're not meant to feel at ease with the controls or being in the body of Max. I think, knowing Rockstar's progressive, boundary-pushing ethos, that the entire game, and the enjoyment of the levels of that game, are an artistic interpretation of Max's psyche. I know that explanation therefore covers them for any bad design choices, but I kinda think the point is to not know exactly how to play, in terms of run n' gun vs cover n' shoot, and therefore victory is earned, not given. I genuinely feel after a hard battle, that I JUST made it through, and I also think that feeling is intentional.

ALL that being said, sometimes when taking part in the many controlled cinematic sequences, the reticule would dart too far back and forth across a dudes head, and I'd end up losing, completely killing 'the moment' and forcing a retry. Take on board as much of my explanation as your own subjectivity will allow, as I'm using that as a recompense for how fucked up and annoying some sections of this fame can be, but I would also say that even with this reasoning, this isn't a good 'Max Payne' game.

Thoughts?

Not hating it, just not enjoying it near as much as I hoped I would. Biggest downer for me is it does not feel like a Max Payne game. Only on Chapter 5 so far; I'll keep after it but expectations are pretty low.

I'm really enjoying it -- but you raise some good points. I too found that section on the rooftop really frustrating. If they had dialed down the amount of bullets an enemy can take before going down, it would have encouraged everyday players to get a little crazier in some of those set pieces.

And the flickering video effects are WAY overdone. A little more subtlety would have been great. If they'd used those effects to punctuate the story (for example, accompanying Max's late night pill binges, or scenes where he is wounded or in extreme jeopardy) it would have been a lot more effective. As it is, it is so ubiquitous that is loses any kind of atmospheric impact.

That said, I think the dialogue and cinematic qualities (as you'd expect with Rockstar at the helm) are superb. It's a compelling world to shoot your way through, despite some of the issues with the shooting itself.

I've to do this I'm sorry...

@rebgav said:

@hbkdx12 said:

@ShalashaskaUK666: So the controls are clunky as a representation of max being fat old and downtrodden?

The problem with that theory is that all of Rockstar's other protagonists have handled in a similar fashion. The game has clunky controls because Rockstar games have clunky controls. If they can disguise that as a conceit of the fiction it's cute but not really an acceptable solution.

True true, maybe Niko wasn't used to american cars either haha! But yeah hbkdx12, that is what i meant, even though it is more of an excuse and not a justification.

It seems like so much effort has gone into this game and every facet of especially the gunplay, that it warrants a few attempts to really get used to how they got used to it over the course of dev time, and what new players can bring to the experience.

I think I remember reading somewhere that theres about 14 chapters, so I'm about half way. So far its a very basic 'get the hostage back' story, so I'm expecting major things to happen! :D

This game would seriously benefit from being 60fps. Impossible on consoles though.

@rebgav said:

The problem with that theory is that all of Rockstar's other protagonists have handled in a similar fashion. The game has clunky controls because Rockstar games have clunky controls. If they can disguise that as a conceit of the fiction it's cute but not really an acceptable solution.

What exactly do you find clunky about the controls?

They give you full range of aiming, the precise targetting of a first-person shooter, and realistic weighty movement.

@hbkdx12: I'm playing on the 360 and haven't experienced those issues, but then again the DualShock controller has never been great for shooters in my mind (placement/feedback of the sticks, squishy non-triggers).

Grenades do have a delay for some reason and I wish the trajectory arc would appear immediately instead of right as it's left my hand. I've never found a use for the roll but I assume it's designed for evading fire during bullet time.

When you're shootdodging you have to hold the same direction while you're getting up to keep your momentum or else you're a sitting duck like you said.

@rebgav: by full range I mean unlike in other Rockstar titles, Max keeps his shooting arm extended at all times and properly pivots his body while turning without any loss of aim. I know what you mean by the stutter steps though. He doesn't change direction instantly but you'll notice his weight realistically shift when strafing.

@hbkdx12: Well, if you chose a bad spot to dive in the first place then you'll be vulnerable regardless of what you do. It's a risky move in multiplayer unless you have adrenaline stored up, but at least the smoother transition out of prone will get you back on your feet so you can return fire.

Really had no issues with the controls. The default settings are kinda shitty, but once I upped the sensitivity settings to 7 and the acceleration up to 8 it's felt fine in free aim for me.

Back again! Christ the checkpointing is TERRIBLE sometimes.

I've also had 2 instances where Max's character model froze during gameplay and I couldn't do anything....so that was fun! Also had another instance where the camera got stuck in the scenery even though I was still playing, then when I paused I couldnt hit 'restart checkpoint', the menu scroll just jumped over the option!

The more I play this, the more I realise it was hardly tested by ANYBODY outside of R*'s key staff, as things such as checkpointing, glitches, and the GODAWFUL sniper controls would have been flagged and fixed on the first session!

I am used to the gameplay now though, I only die through the game throwing too many people at me and not enough painkillers to last 'em!! Basically you're gonna get tagged even if you're in some cover, so if you're entering an area on super low health, you WILL die, theres nothing you can do. Enemies have pretty spectacular aim for a bunch of hired goons and favela drug dealers.

There's something about this game though, that REALLY makes it seem like an effort to play. I don't know why I would go back through it tbh, being first the myriad of problems it has, and second the fact that theres an abundance of cutscenes breaking up the arenas of enemies, which I doubt I'll want to see again.

FINALLY if anyone wants to know what aiming I settled on, I think I found something quite similar to the first 2. I'm using free aim, H speed 5, V speed 5 and aim accel 8, and I've found it to be just the right amount of speed for the cinematic sections.

Also what I've noticed is the game (at least on normal) will give you more painkillers and ammo the more times you have to restart a section, to make sure you get through! Some small way of R* saying 'yeah...we know' :D