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    Oculus Rift

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    The Oculus Rift is a virtual reality headset for the PC released in March 2016.

    The Potentially Scary Implications of the OR Terms of Service

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    sammo21

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    Terms of Service, user agreements, UELAs, etc...they all have some crazy stuff in there if you actually take the time to read through them. Who does that though? Crazy (or smart) people, that's who! I'd honestly say that less than 5% of people actually do that (that's a scientific number). Well, the coolest, most interesting, or newest item out there is the Oculus Rift, also known as Oculus VR.

    Embedded deep in the devices terms of service you will find several interesting things (though one or two of them are things people assumed were coming anyway).

    1. Collecting, and Retaining, Information About You

    Nothing new, but still irksome, OR can/will be keeping data on you. This includes cookies from browser sessions, services and games you access, and even your location from things like your IP or your mobile device's GPS.

    2. Oculus/Facebook Owns Your Content

    Let me clarify, if you created content with the Rift and deploy it through their service, or one they own, they have the right to do anything with that content that they want to.

    3. They Want To Market Directly To You

    Again, nothing new as we get that with Google or Microsoft all the time. However, the issue here is not only will be they collecting data on you (potentially) from a social networking standpoint but now from anything you do with the Rift. That section of the ToS reads as follows:

    We use the information we collect to send you promotional messages and content and otherwise market to you on and off our Services. We also use this information to measure how users respond to our marketing efforts.

    4. The OR, Much Like My 3.5 Month Old, Is Always On

    One of the complaints/worries people had with the Microsoft Kinest was the fact the device was always on and could, potentially, be used to get audio and video when it shouldn't. Even though this is an unlikely scenario, its still one people are worried about and now the OR has the same issues (though no one seems to know about it or simply no one is talking about it. The service that installs when you install the Facebook/OR software constantly sends updates and data back to FB/OR servers so its getting some kind of data.
    _______________________________________

    I was already pretty down on the OR (and kind of VR in general), but I had a hope for PS VR. After watching Giant Bomb's excelling coverage earlier this week I went from excitedly curious to "No thanks" pretty quickly. This stuff only makes me want to get it even less, though there's no word if the PS VR or HTC Vive come with the same caveats. Do you have any worries about VR and what you could potentially be signing up for other than just an attachment? I remember with stuff like the Kinect even Jeff put a piece of black tape over the cameras when it wasn't in use.

    Below are some links for your perusal, including the original story I got this information from at Gizmodo.

    http://gizmodo.com/there-are-some-super-shady-things-in-oculus-rifts-terms-1768678169
    https://www.oculus.com/en-us/legal/terms-of-service/
    http://uploadvr.com/facebook-oculus-privacy/

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    TravisRex

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    Oof

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    FinalDasa

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    #3 FinalDasa  Moderator

    Honestly, a lot of this is on par with most modern electronic devices. Your phone and it's apps probably have similar permissions in place, especially any Facebook apps.

    Some of that data is probably use data. When you use it, for how long, using what. Are you watching a ton of videos or focused mainly on games? It'll help them determine what to market and invest in in the future.

    Not saying it's a good or bad thing. Just a reality thing.

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    Ryuku_Ryosake

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    This was certainly was one of the major issues people had when Facebook bought Occulus. I guess the relief that still kept Rift instead of switching to mobile only model. As well as retaining a heavy focus on games have made people forget that.

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    RedJimi

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    Reading the ToS can be really frightening if you don't understand why it's written the way it is. It's everywhere, it's required, it's good. Difficult as this ToS may be, it's still always overruled by the local law as it is meant to protect them from being sued by unruly and unreasonable people.

    If you have a problem with it, you also have a problem with other ToS using the same wordings. Please, stop using Nvidia, AMD, Facebook, Youtube, Reddit, Google and ... surprise, Gizmodo.

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    EthanielRain

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    It seems like most people don't really care anymore, but that stuff turns me off. I don't like things that spy on me & put ads in my face. The Rift stream here on GB turned me off of it, the software looked mediocre at best; this helps solidify me not wanting it.

    @redjimi said:

    If you have a problem with it, you also have a problem with other ToS using the same wordings. Please, stop using Nvidia, AMD, Facebook, Youtube, Reddit, Google and ... surprise, Gizmodo.

    I don't think Occulus should get a free pass just because other companies are doing it too. I generally try to use alternatives that do respect my privacy, but they're getting harder and harder to find :(

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    SchrodngrsFalco

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    It's the "always on," parts that always makes me uneasy. Guess just unplug it when not in use?

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    Trilogy

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    #8  Edited By Trilogy

    Giving total ownership to them seems like the one that is the most crazy to me. My assumption is that most developers know this going in (at least I hope so). Personally, I couldn't ever see myself handing over ownership to something I made. Especially if the competition doesn't engage in the same rules.

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    Memu

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    This past weekend I got an email to participate in the Dreadnought Alpha. The first step was to sign up for an account and that forced me to look at the ToS. Usually I just skip that and click "ok" to go on. What I read about personal info sharing scared me so I did not sign it. I think it is unacceptable to ask me to surrender all my privacy rights and agree to 3rd party advertising in order to alpha test your game. Yes, I am sure I have signed almost the same ToS for other stuff that I either need or really want to use. But you have to start drawing a line somewhere.

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    hatking

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    I don't know much about the Rift, but what about always on is dangerous? Does that thing even have any sort of camera/microphone on it? What could it possibly be spying with?

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    BelowStupid

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    #12  Edited By BelowStupid

    @redjimi said:

    Reading the ToS can be really frightening if you don't understand why it's written the way it is. It's everywhere, it's required, it's good. Difficult as this ToS may be, it's still always overruled by the local law as it is meant to protect them from being sued by unruly and unreasonable people.

    If you have a problem with it, you also have a problem with other ToS using the same wordings. Please, stop using Nvidia, AMD, Facebook, Youtube, Reddit, Google and ... surprise, Gizmodo.

    I read that last one as Gizmondo. You should stop using your Gizmondo too.

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    ProfessorEss

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    @redjimi said:

    Reading the ToS can be really frightening if you don't understand why it's written the way it is. It's everywhere, it's required, it's good. Difficult as this ToS may be, it's still always overruled by the local law as it is meant to protect them from being sued by unruly and unreasonable people.

    If you have a problem with it, you also have a problem with other ToS using the same wordings. Please, stop using Nvidia, AMD, Facebook, Youtube, Reddit, Google and ... surprise, Gizmodo.

    I read that last one as Gizmondo. You should stop using your Gizmondo too.

    Wonder how CBSi stacks up against these other offenders?

    I've never read the ToS. Y'know... cause it's a ToS.

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    Scrawnto

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    @trilogy said:

    Giving total ownership to them seems like the one that is the most crazy to me. My assumption is that most developers know this going in (at least I hope so). Personally, I couldn't ever see myself handing over ownership to something I made. Especially if the competition doesn't engage in the same rules.

    The thing about this is that legally they have to have a license to the thing you created in order for you to transmit it over their service and show it to anyone, because in doing so the work is replicated. Each time it's downloaded by someone viewing your work, a local copy of it is created.

    If they didn't have a license to make and distribute those copies, you could sue them for copyright violation for duplicating and distributing your work, which is obviously absurd, since you uploaded it for the explicit purpose of sharing it or retrieving it later. It's the same reason Facebook, or Twitter, or Instagram, etc. all have a license to recreate and distribute your photos if you upload them to those services. That's how sharing things over the internet works, since you're not moving physical objects around. It's data that's copied and distributed. The only way to get around that is if you are storing the data on your own server and people are connecting directly to that to access your creations, whether those are photos or whatever else, because then it's you copying and distributing your own creation.

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    blade_r

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    #15  Edited By blade_r

    I am more worried about already existing games franchises I love being specifically designed for those silly things in the future lol

    I don't want one, and I have no interest in playing games with some thing strapped to my face and over my eyes...but if it takes off and I have to get one to play future installments of Ratchet and Clank, God Of War, etc. I will be very upset :/

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    Corvak

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    They collect this stuff for advertising, and as you probably know from the torrents of irrelevant trash hawked at you, it doesnt actually work. You still get inundated with crap you already own or don't want.

    Even so, this is why EA and Ubi funnel money into Origin and Uplay, instead of letting Steam cover the overhead. they want your data, they don't like a barrier (Valve) between them and your inbox.

    I have an old hotmail I put in when most sites ask for an e-mail, because it directs all of this 'direct marketing' into a place I never see.

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    monkeyking1969

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    The way I look at it, all end-user agreements suck. But, really most of them all suck the same way anyway. Should I really worry about my 'rights' on Rift hardware when I gave those 'rights' away on my smartphone, social media accounts, etc.

    If people want to change end-user agreement (E-UAs) we need to really attack all of the laws and loopholes we gave away. And, sadly we will have to fight the scare mongers who will say gloom & doom will happen if user-agreements change. Attack the root of this issue not the flowering buds.

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    Trilogy

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    #18  Edited By Trilogy

    @scrawnto said:
    @trilogy said:

    Giving total ownership to them seems like the one that is the most crazy to me. My assumption is that most developers know this going in (at least I hope so). Personally, I couldn't ever see myself handing over ownership to something I made. Especially if the competition doesn't engage in the same rules.

    The thing about this is that legally they have to have a license to the thing you created in order for you to transmit it over their service and show it to anyone, because in doing so the work is replicated. Each time it's downloaded by someone viewing your work, a local copy of it is created.

    If they didn't have a license to make and distribute those copies, you could sue them for copyright violation for duplicating and distributing your work, which is obviously absurd, since you uploaded it for the explicit purpose of sharing it or retrieving it later. It's the same reason Facebook, or Twitter, or Instagram, etc. all have a license to recreate and distribute your photos if you upload them to those services. That's how sharing things over the internet works, since you're not moving physical objects around. It's data that's copied and distributed. The only way to get around that is if you are storing the data on your own server and people are connecting directly to that to access your creations, whether those are photos or whatever else, because then it's you copying and distributing your own creation.

    Interesting. So wouldn't that mean the Vive has the same stipulation? And does steam have all (or some of?) the rights to every developer's games, big and small? I would imagine large companies have the legal power to protect their property, but what about independent developers?

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    jakob187

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    Honestly, a lot of this is on par with most modern electronic devices. Your phone and it's apps probably have similar permissions in place, especially any Facebook apps.

    This was my first thought, and it's really my only thought. Welcome to modern society, where we signed our right to privacy away the minute we said we wanted to play Snake on a phone.

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    Scrawnto

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    @trilogy: To be clear, they don't have ownership over the games or your content. It's a license. Specifically for Oculus : "Unless otherwise agreed to, we do not claim any ownership rights in or to your User Content. By submitting User Content through the Services, you grant Oculus a worldwide, irrevocable, perpetual (i.e. lasting forever), non-exclusive, transferable, royalty-free and fully sublicensable (i.e. we can grant this right to others) right to use, copy, display, store, adapt, publicly perform and distribute such User Content in connection with the Services."

    So they can't sell it, but they can show it to people without getting your express permission every time it's accessed.

    Youtube has a very similar clause, but no one seems to worry about that: "For clarity, you retain all of your ownership rights in your Content. However, by submitting Content to YouTube, you hereby grant YouTube a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable and transferable license to use, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of, display, and perform the Content in connection with the Service and YouTube's (and its successors' and affiliates') business, including without limitation for promoting and redistributing part or all of the Service (and derivative works thereof) in any media formats and through any media channels"

    It's more complicated once money is changing hands for something, like on Steam. At that point they actually draw up contracts rather than just having the developers agree to a EULA and upload whatever they want to the service.

    Also, take all this with a grain of salt. I'm a software developer, not a lawyer.

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    Trilogy

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    @scrawnto: Ah. That's very different than what I assumed from what the original post said as ownership to "doing anything they want to". Still very interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing.

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    deactivated-582d227526464

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    Don't worry, the Rift will just independently sort all that depraved porn for you and let advertisers know what kind of sick shit you're into.

    This edit will also create new pages on Giant Bomb for:

    Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

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