And good on Abby for actually speaking her mind on this subject. It does birth reflections in some of us that overall will keep us humble in our way of consuming media content. I applaud that.
@baltica2ga: However did inside make it in this industry?
My entire point was that this isn't gender related. Men too could feel uncomfortable in relation to this, but it still wouldn't or shouldn't take away from the game how well achieved that was, crafting the tonality and sense of agency to provoke such an emotional response. My beef is with the perception that it has any bearings in this discussion, because it may or may not invoke this in women and is particularly detrimental to them,hence it becomes a considerative validator of the quality.
As if this should merit the call out to create a safe space for women. I didn't want to play my gender card, but I am in fact a woman and when something hits with me, I appreciate and acknowledge the effort and skill put into it, for achieving this, moving me.
@ahifi: edit: missed a lot in my response it vanished.
The music score in a game or its story telling capabilities surely can't be dismissed or weighed less because it thematically has a certain expression? Should we then disregard war games, and shooters, their masterful construct, because some are traumatized by the theme or dislike guns/violence and believe it's directly related to school shootings (pushing it, I know, but bear with me).
I believe in equality and accept the difference in outcome and taste.
I know what to expect from that genre and I consent to it going in playing the game.
With dream daddy I didn't have a foundation of what to expect or the level of explicit graphical display.
My point is, no one is victimised, but it's odd that one would be more somber when it fits a narrative supporting the argument for it.
That game is bad, hence it makes this better, would've been just as bad to say.
In regards of GOW. Being a Scandinavian myself, growing up with Norse mythology, I don't interpret the writing as an expression of their view on women. Women played a part back then that is outdated in our society today. Women were regarded differently as were men. Those social constructs and gender roles we interact within today, weren't a thing back then. Nature dictated most if not all distributions or role specific assignments.
And if we are going by a numbers game here, I can count more non female depicted enemies and deaths than male ones. Women weren't treated badly in that game, a mother struggled with her monster of a son, loving him unconditionally, even though he was broken. And our hero didn't hold back protecting his son from those creatures attacking him, regardless of gender. I could be blind, but I offer you my perception and views on this matter while respecting your and I'm thankful you have them.
@ahifi: I know what to expect from that genre and I consent to it going in playing the game.
With dream daddy I didn't have a foundation of what to expect or the level of explicit graphical display.
My point is, no one is victimised, but it's odd that one would be more somber when it fits a narrative supporting the argument for it.
That game is bad, hence it makes this better, would've been just as bad to say.
In regards of GOW. Being a Scandinavian myself, growing up with Norse mythology, I don't interpret the writing as an expression of their view on women. Women played a part back then that is outdated in our society today. Women were regarded differently as were men. Those social constructs and gender roles we interact within today, weren't a thing back then. Nature dictated most if not all distributions or role specific assignments.
And if we are going by a numbers game here, I can count more non female depicted enemies and deaths than male ones. Women weren't treated badly in that game, a mother struggled with her monster of a son, loving him unconditionally, even though he was broken. And our hero didn't hold back protecting his son from those creatures attacking him, regardless of gender. I could be blind, but I offer you my perception and views on this matter while respecting your and I'm thankful you have them.
Abby's a bloomer, and expectedly, she'll evolve and contribute more in time. Those opposing her, are very personal in doing so, I can't speak to that, I guess I'm fine with the professional distance, accepting their way of doing things. To criticize Abby solely, is disingenuous and...just weird dude :) there are several heads at that table all historically guilty of shoehorning and thumping due to passion for a game. But I will call out everyones quirky actions when I see them :)
The other part: I wasn't specific enough. GB crew can have a field day, it won't jeopardize the outcome of sales of future development of said games. What I meant was, that games deserve the praise and criticism equally, and preferably given in an honest way.
I felt it was dishonest or at least shady that some of the games during the years were robbed in a fashion that led to GB crew using arguments in one favour and then contradict themselves the second after.
Now, gender policy, sexism, feminism etc I don't feel should be a qualifier for the praise of the artful expressions in said games or dictate their relevance. If the business is rotten, then I truly support discussing that in a category pertaining to the worst this or that, like they did with the guy last time, who spoke about white supremacy. (tf was he thinking?)
But I'm struggling with it becoming valid arguments when they discuss games. You are then attacking a genre and belittling it, while furthermore calling the fanbase out for being fans of it.
God of war wasn't sexist, Geetha Vigga Nørregård said herself, she condoned the settings and narrative because it was historically rooted in mythology and that world. Changing that would result in a different game heavily influenced by tokenism and pc considerations.
It's not the games that paint the landscape for a woman in the business, it's not a patriarchal scheme to oppress women, it's that era. If women are misrepresented or treated badly, that's on the horrible leaders, not a partially historical and fictional depiction of the game. And might I add, women were heavily represented too as goddesses.
@sethmode: I made it a point to say that it has happened to all of them and they've all done it, so I fail to see your reasoning for bringing that up, but like I said, there's a defence mechanism activating every time Abby is mentioned.
I don't get it! Personally I think Abby is a great addition to the production and I've never not praised her. But you failing to se my point, when the entire industry is dealing with this offended culture that is a very outspoken symptom of our time,just confirms my early beliefs.
A slew of games were attacked for this. God of war didn't have enough women, and then it did, but they all died and or had to be killed, and then why is god of war so focused on masculinity, it's everything that's bad in this world and what not.
Nier was immediately and rudely put down because of a pantie shot. But Greg's crotch, constantly thrown at you in dream daddy, wasn't an issue, wasn't sexist etc. It just becomes intellectually dishonest. It's like praising obesity all of a sudden, saying we are brave for it, but not doing the same with anorexia at the same time.
I'm sticking to my guns. This isn't about Abby, this is about taking a stand and being able to filter the artistical expressions from personal convictions.
I'm aware of the heat and white knighting I'm risking saying this, but my integrity allows for nothing else.
Disco may not have been an obvious contender for top placements, but if this sets the bar for how games can be dismissed solely based on the subjective opinion of someone at the table, then what are we doing? No game will stand a chance if we abide by the I'm offended, this is sexist etc. culture. Nier was dragged through the dirt, but dream daddy and it's very explicit graphics weren't because it had to fit an agenda?
This does not bode well and one last thing;
It's a hard sale to snip at someone, saying they are not finished talking when everyone at that time has been interrupted by the very same person. It's part of the process, interruptions will occur.
I'm torn. On the hand, I rather enjoyed the easy listening aspect of it, less demanding of my complete attention. Like falling asleep on the couch to friendly voices in the distance.
On the other hand, I miss the deep reflections amidst the used car dealer talk, that would challenge and enlighten my own opinion or perception.
But if it came with the nonsense repetitive non arguments and contradictive, intellectually dishonest, shoehorned political views, aka pc brush strokes, I'm leaning to this new format. I can't stand the muddiness and shallow non arguments anymore than everyone agreeing to how cute the world is, floating on a pink sky with unicorns playfully following.
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