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Enigma777

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The problem with FPS RPG's (like Destiny)

It really comes down to one thing: Balance. A good FPS will have balanced weapon damage with enemy health to ensure that the player has a challenging but satisfying time, staying away from it being too easy or frustrating to the point where he's cheezing the AI to get through. But once you introduce weapon drops that dictate your primary weapon damage and armor that impacts your survivability, that balance goes out the window. And once that balance is gone, it means you no longer hit that sweet spot between too easy and too hard, resulting in a whole lot of non-ideal and (imo) unfun gameplay experiences.

At least it's easy on the eyes
At least it's easy on the eyes

This is where Destiny breaks for me. I've been playing the Alpha for a few hours and while the game is certainly neat and has a lot of cool ideas, that fundamental lack of balance has destroyed any hope of me wanting to play the game again.

In the Alpha there's a co-op mission called The Devil's Lair which is essentially a boss raid. You go in a dungeon and fight a couple of waves of enemies and it all culminates in a big boss fight. First time I ran that mission with a Fireteam (party) of 3, we literally spent 2.5 hours trying to complete a mission that shouldn't take more than 25 mins. Even though we were only half a level under the suggested level, the gap is strength was so large that it would take all 3 of us to focus fire the shielded enemies, dumping 3-4 clips each and maybe a grenade or two to bring down just one of them. Right before the boss you fight a spider tank thing and he probably had something like 5K HP and my shots were doing 7 damage each. This was so profoundly unfun and frustrating that when we were all one hit KO'd by the boss, we just gave up. Then after leveling once and buying stronger riffles we ran that mission again and cleaned house. I think we finished it in 15 mins with time to spare. I do want to mention that the game attempts to address this because the second time we ran the mission the enemies were actually 2 levels higher than before but it was still such a cakewalk it didn't matter.

Oh spider tank, how I hate thee!
Oh spider tank, how I hate thee!

In Bungie's previous game, Halo, this would have never been an issue since the weapon damage and player health were locked-in and the engagements were precisely tuned to take advantage of that fact. While weapon loot has it's appeal, I find that, particularly in FPS games like Destiny and Borderlands, it detracts more than it adds to the experience. Not to say that it doesn't have it's place, but it's not what I want out of my shooters.

57 Comments

57 Comments

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DarthOrange

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I agree. It runs into the Gran Turismo single player problem where you are either significantly better than your opponents and it isn't fun or you are significantly worse and it isn't fun.

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sarahsdad

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@bleshoo said:

Was the crab walker really that difficult for you guys? Even after taking out his legs and shooting his weak spot?

It's funny; as soon as I realized it was possible to shoot the legs to temporarily disable the crab-thing, one of my first thoughts was "shoot the weak spots for massive damage"

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JasonR86

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Edited By JasonR86
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Karkarov

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@pyrodactyl said:

You guys are missing the point completely. The OP got into a mission that was one level above him, it was impossible, he leveled and it became a cakewalk. That doesn't sound fun at all.

Uh no. I have run that mission plenty of times. It is never a "cakewalk" in my experience. Well maybe once we get to beta or release and you can come back at like level 10+ with heinously op gear? I am level 8 in all green gear and the tank can one shot me if I don't dodge it's main turret. Sepik's energy blast will kill me if I take 3-4 clean hits from it, which he fires like 4-5 in a row once you get him lower on HP. This is also assuming all the fallen he is calling in to help him aren't shooting at me too.

Trust me, with a full level 8 fire team who are all well geared and know what to do.... it still isn't what I would call easy at the base "brave" challenge level. I haven't even considered going at the "legend" setting where everything is even more buff. That said with a leveled fire team in good gear who know what they are doing... It can be cleared in 30-40 minutes.

Destiny is like most older MMO's, if it is anything other than a rank and file dude and it out levels you.... you aren't supposed to fight it. Even if it is just rank and file... if it has 3-4 levels or more on you it will be hard. More than 5 and you basically will either need 10 minutes to kill it, or you just won't be able to at all.

Just for the record I have also found very remote spots while exploring Old Russia where the mobs are literally so powerful I either do 1 damage a shot or 0. When your gun that normally hits for 50-60 starts doing 1 damage you know you aren't supposed to be there.

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sasnake

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Well, if you go into something that tells you that you are under leveled, how is that messing with balance? Surely the balance would be meeting the requirements? Hell I finished it with my fireteam on the hard difficulty in 20 minutes.

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Bleshoo

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Lnin0

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Balance is an even bigger key to an MMORPG and an even finer line to walk than in an FPS, where as the op point out, is much more consistent. People of varying levels and skill sets will be grouping together so an RPG needs to have zones and content that can cater to these variables.

That said, a lot if the adaptability is left to the players judgment. Providing the game does not restrict zones/quest to tightly (see WoW) the player should have the ability to choose their own difficulty.

I can imagine that new player groups in an alpha build will not always know where these difficulty lines are and how to best zone/quest to match the difficulty they desire. That will come with experience as will rebalancing from Bungie.

When it comes to reviewing player trends and rebalancing, there are few developers that can match Bungie. Knowing this is a decade long deal with Activision, you can expect Bungie will be deeply involved in the game post release.