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Peyton Hillis- victim of the worst Madden Curse of all time?

In about a week voting will open for the cover player for Madden NFL 13. If you love your team at all I beg you to vote for a player not on your team's roster. Last Season (likely soon to be former) Cleveland Browns Running Back Peyton Hillis graced the cover as winner of the second ever Madden fan poll beating out Michael Vick.

and I think no one has ever been as Madden cursed as he has been.

So who is Peyton Hillis and what happened to him? Well let me share with you a Cleveland fan's perspective.

From Zero to Hero

After a productive yet unremarkable 4-year career as a Fullback and return man at University of Arkansas, Hillis was taken in the 7th round of the 2008 NFL draft by the Denver Broncos. While with Denver Hillis scarcely played and was riddled with injuries, despite occasional flashes of brilliance. He was unceremoniously dumped by the Broncos to the Cleveland Browns along with a 6th round pick in exchange for under-performing QB Brady Quinn in 2010.

With Cleveland in 2010, Hillis quickly ascended to the starting Hb role in Week 3 after injuries decimated the roster. For the rest of 2010 Hillis put gaudy numbers in Eric Mangini's run centric offense. He won AFC offensive player of the week in Week 9, becoming the first Brown in nearly twenty years to win the honor and ends up being runner up in MVP voting.

2010 Stats

GPAttYdsAvgTDRecYdsAvgTD
1527011774.411614777.82

In addition to his performance, Hillis' good ole boy hardworking blue collar nature persona (and enormous biceps) made him a fan favorite. For his breakout season Hillis was voted by Madden fans to the Cover of Madden NFL 12.

From Hero to Zero

Almost immediately things started to go wrong for Hillis.

  • Late 2010 - Early 2011 - His coach Eric Mangini was fired by Club president Mike Holmgren and replaced by Pat Shurmur, a coach who runs a pass heavy West Coast Offense. Going into Camp Hillis was informed that his role was likely going to be changed in the new offense and that he would need to improve his blocking. The NFL players are locked out preventing Hillis from learning the new offense
  • Early 2011 - Hillis fired his agent Jimmy Sexton and hires Kelly Masters, in July she is fired and he hires Kennard McGuire, making McGuire Hillis's third agent in 2011.
  • Summer 2011- Once in camp on the advice of McGuire, Hillis begins to grumble on and off the record about the Browns not offering him the extension and raise he wants. Club president Holmgren claims he is trying "like crazy" to sign Hillis. Hillis who makes $500,500 in 2011 is believed to be asking for $12 million in guaranteed money. When another Brown gets an extension, Hillis starts to go public with his feelings about being "disrespected" by The Browns. Reporters start to cover the Hillis story closely. The Cleveland Plain Dealer quotes him as saying later on- "You feel unappreciated because you want to get something done and nothing has gotten done at this point. As far as that goes, you don't know the ultimate feelings in the end of what's going on up top. You take it with a grain of salt and you keep moving on." http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/10/cleveland_browns_rb_peyton_hil_6.html
  • late Summer- Hillis struggles to pick up the new offense due to the NFL lockout shortened camp. The new offense requires more blocking and outside the tackle running for Hillis, neither of which are his forte. Hillis tweaks his chronically weak hamstrings late in camp.
  • Weeks 1-2 - Hillis is largely ineffective in his limited appearances, his effort is questioned by Browns beat reporters. Head coach Shurmur reduces his workload in practice on concerns Hillis is over working himself.
  • Week 3 - Hillis sits out of the Miami Dolphins game at the last minute on the advice of his agent, due to fear of him getting hurt since he was recovering from "Strep Throat and Flu-like symptoms". The Browns narrowly win a close game against a perceived inferior opponent and some of the team internally blames Hillis. Hillis tells the media it was his agent's fault.
  • After Week 3 - Qb Colt McCoy and the offense hold their first intervention team meeting with Hillis about his attitude and commitment to the team.
  • Week 6 - Hillis pulls his hamstring early in the Oakland game. Browns PR personnel fail to report this to the tv media covering the game and announcers mistakenly conclude on air he has been benched. Hillis is inactive for several weeks, ultimately he misses 5 games throughout the season. During one of the weeks he is "rehabing" he secretly goes to Arkansas to get married. Browns mgt is not pleased.

  • Mid October/Trade deadline - Browns Gm Tom Heckert and head coach Shurmur hint that they are no longer certain they want Hillis Back in 2012-2013 season, Browns first deny and then entertain to trade offers for Hillis. Hillis is not traded.

  • Early November - Hillis skips a Halloween charity fund raiser for the Cleveland Boys & Girls Club with no explanation. Co-host and Former Cleveland browns Center LeCharles Bentley strongly criticizes him publicly. Hillis blames his brother Kyle Hillis (and business manager) for not telling him the correct time.

  • Early December- In a press conference stating that he wants to return to Cleveland and retire as a Brown, Hillis instead talks mainly about endorsing Ron Paul for president in 2012 which cause more angst in parts of heavily democratic Cleveland.

  • Late season - Hillis seems to reforms his attitude, refuses to talk about his contract issues any further and performs well in the remainder of the season, including a 100+ yd game against Baltimore. The Browns finish 4-12. Despite early in the season denying the existence of the Madden Curse, Hillis now blames his poor performance in the season on it. The Cleveland Plain Dealer quotes him as saying- "No doubt about it," Hillis finally admitted Thursday. "Things haven't worked to my favor this year. There's a few things that happened that made me believe in curses. Ain't no doubt about it." http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/12/cleveland_browns_peyton_hillis_11.html

  • Post season- Browns pass on franchising Hillis for 7.7 million, Heckert say Hillis is welcome back at "the right price' (I.e. a lot less less money than the franchise tag). Hillis fires agent Kennard McGuire. [UPDATE 3/1/2012 - Hillis apparently has contemplated retirement (and may still be) to pursue a career with the Central Intelligence Agency- no joke]

2011 stats

GPAttYdsAvgTDRecYdsAvgTD
101615873.63221305.90

Change from 2010

GPAttYdsAvgTDRecYdsAvgTD
-33%-40%-50%-18%-73%-64%-73%-24%-100%

It's been a circus for Hillis and Browns fans for a year now. For most seemingly affected by the Madden curse usually one aspect of their career suffers a setback. In Peyton's case not only Hillis' on the field performance suffer, his health suffered, his wealth suffered as the likelihood of him getting a big money contract from the Browns severely diminished and his reputation among fans and peers was severely tarnished.

If nothing else this season probably cost Peyton Hillis tens of million so dollars in potential lifetime earnings. I think most expected a come back to earth season for Hillis, but this is incredible.

And that's why in my opinion no cover player of Madden has yet suffered such a complete collapse in prospects and reputation as Peyton Hillis has in their cover year.

33 Comments

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Slag

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Edited By Slag

In about a week voting will open for the cover player for Madden NFL 13. If you love your team at all I beg you to vote for a player not on your team's roster. Last Season (likely soon to be former) Cleveland Browns Running Back Peyton Hillis graced the cover as winner of the second ever Madden fan poll beating out Michael Vick.

and I think no one has ever been as Madden cursed as he has been.

So who is Peyton Hillis and what happened to him? Well let me share with you a Cleveland fan's perspective.

From Zero to Hero

After a productive yet unremarkable 4-year career as a Fullback and return man at University of Arkansas, Hillis was taken in the 7th round of the 2008 NFL draft by the Denver Broncos. While with Denver Hillis scarcely played and was riddled with injuries, despite occasional flashes of brilliance. He was unceremoniously dumped by the Broncos to the Cleveland Browns along with a 6th round pick in exchange for under-performing QB Brady Quinn in 2010.

With Cleveland in 2010, Hillis quickly ascended to the starting Hb role in Week 3 after injuries decimated the roster. For the rest of 2010 Hillis put gaudy numbers in Eric Mangini's run centric offense. He won AFC offensive player of the week in Week 9, becoming the first Brown in nearly twenty years to win the honor and ends up being runner up in MVP voting.

2010 Stats

GPAttYdsAvgTDRecYdsAvgTD
1527011774.411614777.82

In addition to his performance, Hillis' good ole boy hardworking blue collar nature persona (and enormous biceps) made him a fan favorite. For his breakout season Hillis was voted by Madden fans to the Cover of Madden NFL 12.

From Hero to Zero

Almost immediately things started to go wrong for Hillis.

  • Late 2010 - Early 2011 - His coach Eric Mangini was fired by Club president Mike Holmgren and replaced by Pat Shurmur, a coach who runs a pass heavy West Coast Offense. Going into Camp Hillis was informed that his role was likely going to be changed in the new offense and that he would need to improve his blocking. The NFL players are locked out preventing Hillis from learning the new offense
  • Early 2011 - Hillis fired his agent Jimmy Sexton and hires Kelly Masters, in July she is fired and he hires Kennard McGuire, making McGuire Hillis's third agent in 2011.
  • Summer 2011- Once in camp on the advice of McGuire, Hillis begins to grumble on and off the record about the Browns not offering him the extension and raise he wants. Club president Holmgren claims he is trying "like crazy" to sign Hillis. Hillis who makes $500,500 in 2011 is believed to be asking for $12 million in guaranteed money. When another Brown gets an extension, Hillis starts to go public with his feelings about being "disrespected" by The Browns. Reporters start to cover the Hillis story closely. The Cleveland Plain Dealer quotes him as saying later on- "You feel unappreciated because you want to get something done and nothing has gotten done at this point. As far as that goes, you don't know the ultimate feelings in the end of what's going on up top. You take it with a grain of salt and you keep moving on." http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/10/cleveland_browns_rb_peyton_hil_6.html
  • late Summer- Hillis struggles to pick up the new offense due to the NFL lockout shortened camp. The new offense requires more blocking and outside the tackle running for Hillis, neither of which are his forte. Hillis tweaks his chronically weak hamstrings late in camp.
  • Weeks 1-2 - Hillis is largely ineffective in his limited appearances, his effort is questioned by Browns beat reporters. Head coach Shurmur reduces his workload in practice on concerns Hillis is over working himself.
  • Week 3 - Hillis sits out of the Miami Dolphins game at the last minute on the advice of his agent, due to fear of him getting hurt since he was recovering from "Strep Throat and Flu-like symptoms". The Browns narrowly win a close game against a perceived inferior opponent and some of the team internally blames Hillis. Hillis tells the media it was his agent's fault.
  • After Week 3 - Qb Colt McCoy and the offense hold their first intervention team meeting with Hillis about his attitude and commitment to the team.
  • Week 6 - Hillis pulls his hamstring early in the Oakland game. Browns PR personnel fail to report this to the tv media covering the game and announcers mistakenly conclude on air he has been benched. Hillis is inactive for several weeks, ultimately he misses 5 games throughout the season. During one of the weeks he is "rehabing" he secretly goes to Arkansas to get married. Browns mgt is not pleased.

  • Mid October/Trade deadline - Browns Gm Tom Heckert and head coach Shurmur hint that they are no longer certain they want Hillis Back in 2012-2013 season, Browns first deny and then entertain to trade offers for Hillis. Hillis is not traded.

  • Early November - Hillis skips a Halloween charity fund raiser for the Cleveland Boys & Girls Club with no explanation. Co-host and Former Cleveland browns Center LeCharles Bentley strongly criticizes him publicly. Hillis blames his brother Kyle Hillis (and business manager) for not telling him the correct time.

  • Early December- In a press conference stating that he wants to return to Cleveland and retire as a Brown, Hillis instead talks mainly about endorsing Ron Paul for president in 2012 which cause more angst in parts of heavily democratic Cleveland.

  • Late season - Hillis seems to reforms his attitude, refuses to talk about his contract issues any further and performs well in the remainder of the season, including a 100+ yd game against Baltimore. The Browns finish 4-12. Despite early in the season denying the existence of the Madden Curse, Hillis now blames his poor performance in the season on it. The Cleveland Plain Dealer quotes him as saying- "No doubt about it," Hillis finally admitted Thursday. "Things haven't worked to my favor this year. There's a few things that happened that made me believe in curses. Ain't no doubt about it." http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/12/cleveland_browns_peyton_hillis_11.html

  • Post season- Browns pass on franchising Hillis for 7.7 million, Heckert say Hillis is welcome back at "the right price' (I.e. a lot less less money than the franchise tag). Hillis fires agent Kennard McGuire. [UPDATE 3/1/2012 - Hillis apparently has contemplated retirement (and may still be) to pursue a career with the Central Intelligence Agency- no joke]

2011 stats

GPAttYdsAvgTDRecYdsAvgTD
101615873.63221305.90

Change from 2010

GPAttYdsAvgTDRecYdsAvgTD
-33%-40%-50%-18%-73%-64%-73%-24%-100%

It's been a circus for Hillis and Browns fans for a year now. For most seemingly affected by the Madden curse usually one aspect of their career suffers a setback. In Peyton's case not only Hillis' on the field performance suffer, his health suffered, his wealth suffered as the likelihood of him getting a big money contract from the Browns severely diminished and his reputation among fans and peers was severely tarnished.

If nothing else this season probably cost Peyton Hillis tens of million so dollars in potential lifetime earnings. I think most expected a come back to earth season for Hillis, but this is incredible.

And that's why in my opinion no cover player of Madden has yet suffered such a complete collapse in prospects and reputation as Peyton Hillis has in their cover year.

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Zleunamme

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Edited By Zleunamme

Football is a physically demanding sport and injuries come with the territory. Peyton Hillis had a bad season but no there is no mention of previous Madden cover athletes. There is no information on how poorly other players fared during the season they made the cover. No stat comparisons or synopsis on how those teams did during their specific year. It hard to compare how badly the curse affected Hillis to Shaun Alexander, Eddie George or Marshall Faulk for example. There is no doubt that the cover negatively affected Hillis in more ways than one. To say all time, that remains to be seen.

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mustachioeugene

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Edited By mustachioeugene

The Madden curse is one of my favourite sports-theories/statistical anomalies, and in a fairly morbid way I look forward to seeing what, if any, it's effects will be.

Especially if it's effecting a player on any of the teams I root against.

Also, the wiki article on GB has maybe one of my favourite default images on the entire site.

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Slag

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Edited By Slag

@Zleunamme said:

Football is a physically demanding sport and injuries come with the territory. Peyton Hillis had a bad season but no there is no mention of previous Madden cover athletes. There is no information on how poorly other players fared during the season they made the cover. No stat comparisons or synopsis on how those teams did during their specific year. It hard to compare how badly the curse affected Hillis to Shaun Alexander, Eddie George or Marshall Faulk for example. There is no doubt that the cover negatively affected Hillis in more ways than one. To say all time, that remains to be seen.

fortunately Giantbomb's wiki has the most of answers you seek (which is why I didn't bother to include those comparisons in the blog for tldr sake)

http://www.giantbomb.com/madden-curse/92-649/

Alexander is the only one that has had similarly bad experience in degree to what happened to Hillis in my opinion, remains to be seen if what happened to Hillis is permanent like what happened to Alexander. Difference in my mind is though Alexander was the end of his career and Hillis should just be about to enter his prime. Where Alexander's bad luck may have ended his career, Hillis' bad luck may have prevented his from ever happening.

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NickL

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Edited By NickL

Tell me about it.

I drafted him on my fantasy team.

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Morris

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Edited By Morris

Usually people get on the cover of Madden after a break out year. So really what we should be looking at is stats of players before and after their career years. Normally they go downhill. Just look at CJ2K, it didn't take the Madden curse for him to become a mess on the field.

Edit: I was also thinking when the season gets closer, we should set up a GB Fantasy league!

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Yeah but prison is worse.

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Slag

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@Morris said:

Usually people get on the cover of Madden after a break out year. So really what we should be looking at is stats of players before and after their career years. Normally they go downhill. Just look at CJ2K, it didn't take the Madden curse for him to become a mess on the field.

yeah that's totally fair, I do think you'd expect some mean reversion.

What's unique in Hillis's cases, was that he was a distraction to the team the whole year. Most madden players don't have the fans, senior mgt and their own teammates turn on them like what happened with Hillis on top of dramatically reduced performance.

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@Slag: Ya man, I didn't know about that Hillis intervention. Definitely a strange situation. Really dug the post by the way!

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@Sander said:

Yeah but prison is worse.

if you mean Michael Vick, he went to to prison (2007) three years after his cover (2004). In fairness he did break his leg during his cover year and was out for most of it.

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Edited By RsistncE

People don't honestly believe in the Madden curse, do they? Wait, scratch that...rational, level-headed people don't believe in it, do they?

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@Slag: If this gets him out of Cleveland earlier...that's not a curse....

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What I really meant was that during Vick's reign as Madden cover boy, he died inside because that's when he began his dog fighting championships. His soul surrendered to the Dark Arts and he became a monster. This is far more tragic than football performances. The truth only became apparent a few yrs later and that's when he when to prison. 
Sorry I wasn't more clear.

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@Morris: Awesome! thanks man!

@RsistncE said:

People don't honestly believe in the Madden curse, do they? Wait, scratch that...rational, level-headed people don't believe in it, do they?

Actually I kind of do, I think like the Sports Illustrated Cover "curse" what it really may be is sudden fame. Some guys like Peyton Hillis just frankly are completely unprepared for the spotlight and start to have issues coping with it when suddenly thrust in it. But yeah it's certainly not a real curse.

@Doctorchimp: Cleveland Rocks! Alright it kinda does suck a little, but whatever I like it.

@Sander said:

What I really meant was that during Vick's reign as Madden cover boy, he died inside because that's when he began his dog fighting championships. His soul surrendered to the Dark Arts and he became a monster. This is far more tragic than football performances. The truth only became apparent a few yrs later and that's when he when to prison. Sorry I wasn't more clear.

well I can't argue that and I suppose that does trump Hillis in that regard since nothing that Hillis has done (that I know of) is actually seriously morally wrong. The difference being of course Vick's dogfightin' ways wasn't public during the cover year like Hillis's thing has been.

Dog fighting is bad stuff, but I do have to admit I'm amazed by how shocked people were by it. It's a pretty common practice in cities that has been going on along time, I know people who rescue pit bulls from those rings all the time.

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As if Peyton Hillis's year hasn't been weird enough today it comes out he considered (considering?) retirement to join the CIA!

from Adam Schefter at ESPN.com

" Throughout the past season, Hillis has wavered about whether he wants to continue playing football, and even considered joining the CIA, according to team sources. It is unclear if he actually pursued a career with the CIA. Hillis told Browns coaches as recently as the end of the season that he was contemplating retirement, though it now looks as if he will continue playing, the sources said. But Hillis has felt defeated throughout his time in football, whether it was being benched at Arkansas in favor of Felix Jones and Darren McFadden, being traded by the Denver Broncos, or being unable to procure the long-term deal he desired in Cleveland. It led him to tell Browns coaches that he didn't know whether he wanted to play football anymore. "

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7633501/cleveland-browns-use-tag-rb-peyton-hillis-source-says

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@mustachioeugene said:

The Madden curse is one of my favourite sports-theories/statistical anomalies, and in a fairly morbid way I look forward to seeing what, if any, it's effects will be.

Especially if it's effecting a player on any of the teams I root against.

Also, the wiki article on GB has maybe one of my favourite default images on the entire site.

I was so happy I found that pic when I was putting that page together. Someone messed with the layout though, I haven't looked in a while. Looks bad.

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One part of the story that just came out today is that Hillis was (or is) contemplating retirement to join the CIA.

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A lot of that seems to be his own fault.

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I first read the your title and thought, "No way." The, ugh, "curse" (I am a baseball fan and more specifically a sabermetrics guy so words like clutch and curse make me wince) has always been some catastrophic injury or some other splashy event. However I think I am coming around on your premise. His was more a death by a thousand business and self-inflicted cuts. What a crazy series of events.

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@gla55jAw: that image is amazing!

Hmm the page does look wacked out. I fear it might have gotten messed up when I updated about Hillis during mid season. Since it might be my fault and Hillis' part needs to be updated anyway, I'll see if I can fix it.

@ShadowConqueror: no doubt.

@alsnuts2:

hey thanks!

yeah the term "curse" is a convenient one for colloquial reasons, but I really doubt it's an actual curse. I do think there is measurable underperformance for people on covers, primarily due to mean reversion (you only get a cover after unusual success, so it's to be expected you'd fall back after you get one). And well it wouldn't surprise me if the odds of getting injured go up too for a NFL player, whether it be because you probably weren't injured the year before or being targeted more often by opposing defenses.

given that CEO magazine cover exposure has been shown to be negative indicator for future stock price performance , I think there is something the effect. Probably all it is, is an artifact of the way covers are selected.

Still Hillis has embarked on one of the most impressive self destructive quests I've ever seen. In his case I just don't think he was equipped mentally to handle the sudden fame he got for his 2010 season performance.

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@Slag:Whoever fixed it up made it very sexy!

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@gla55jAw: Thanks man!

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He was overrated to begin with. He already showed signs that he wouldn't last at the end of his great year and there was no way he was repeating the season he had.

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@white_sox said:

He was overrated to begin with. He already showed signs that he wouldn't last at the end of his great year and there was no way he was repeating the season he had.

I donno, he's overratted, sure. But he was on the Browns. Jets should be able to pick him up cheap. The perfect guy to ground and pound with. Switching him off with Shonne Green and Joe McKnight sounds like a good backfield to me! Yeah, I am a Jets fan so...

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@gla55jAw said:

@white_sox said:

He was overrated to begin with. He already showed signs that he wouldn't last at the end of his great year and there was no way he was repeating the season he had.

I donno, he's overratted, sure. But he was on the Browns. Jets should be able to pick him up cheap. The perfect guy to ground and pound with. Switching him off with Shonne Green and Joe McKnight sounds like a good backfield to me! Yeah, I am a Jets fan so...

I'd totally agree that he has to be at the back end of a split back system. I actually wouldn't mind him on the bears if we could get him on the cheap.

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gla55jAw

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@white_sox said:

@gla55jAw said:

@white_sox said:

He was overrated to begin with. He already showed signs that he wouldn't last at the end of his great year and there was no way he was repeating the season he had.

I donno, he's overratted, sure. But he was on the Browns. Jets should be able to pick him up cheap. The perfect guy to ground and pound with. Switching him off with Shonne Green and Joe McKnight sounds like a good backfield to me! Yeah, I am a Jets fan so...

I'd totally agree that he has to be at the back end of a split back system. I actually wouldn't mind him on the bears if we could get him on the cheap.

I think someone is going to get him cheap. He screwed himself over by sitting out those games and his attitude.

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As a Browns fan, I actually want him back, especially if it is on the cheap. If we let him go we'll have nobody worth anything and we'll have to draft somebody.

The Browns need a QB more than a RB, so I'd rather see our picks be used on getting RG3.

I think the dude does actually have legit talent (He only slowed down in the latter half of 2010 because defenses started putting 8 in the box since the Browns passing game was so bad), but I somewhat doubt he can stay healthy.

I really doubt he's coming back to Cleveland though....

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I remember when the Baltimore Ravens were the Cleveland Browns. I think Cleveland is more cursed than any Madden Curse. I'm taking my talents to Miami...The King James Version.

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gla55jAw

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@Slag said:

As a Browns fan, I actually want him back, especially if it is on the cheap. If we let him go we'll have nobody worth anything and we'll have to draft somebody.

The Browns need a QB more than a RB, so I'd rather see our picks be used on getting RG3.

I think the dude does actually have legit talent (He only slowed down in the latter half of 2010 because defenses started putting 8 in the box since the Browns passing game was so bad), but I somewhat doubt he can stay healthy.

I really doubt he's coming back to Cleveland though....

I'd want him back too, but I think he wants OUT of Cleveland, and I don't see him coming back.

It's a shame that you guys might give up on McCoy already, but if you can get RG3, I guess you can't pass him up. The guy is a beast. What was Colt a 3rd rounder?

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@gla55jAw said:

I'd want him back too, but I think he wants OUT of Cleveland, and I don't see him coming back.

It's a shame that you guys might give up on McCoy already, but if you can get RG3, I guess you can't pass him up. The guy is a beast. What was Colt a 3rd rounder?

my take is he wants $$$ and he'll go wherever he can get top dollar. Makes sense as this is probably his only big money contract chance. I think he knows Cleveland mgt is Cap-constrained and well think he isn't worth much.

I think he actually likes Cleveland, he always says he wants to retire a Brown. Could be lieing but he seems genuine. Dude is a screwy goofball though, who knows what that guy actually thinks?

McCoy is a super leader and tough, but the fact is his arm strength is pretty poor by NFL standards. Sad to say I think he's pretty much as good as he's going to be, and I think Browns mgt thinks the same. Holmgren pretty much has said Cleveland can't win without an elite QB running the West Coast offense. Given how bad the rest of the entire offense is, the quickest way for them to get better is upgrade the QB position. If the Browns can't get an elite QB prospect like RG3 or Luck I think they should go WR at 4, but hey if you get a chance at a franchise QB I think you gotta take it in their spot.

That being said, sounds like the Rams want a million picks for the number 2 slot, so I'm going to guess Cleveland won't actually get RG3 and McCoy will be the Qb again next year.

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gla55jAw

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@Slag said:

@gla55jAw said:

I'd want him back too, but I think he wants OUT of Cleveland, and I don't see him coming back.

It's a shame that you guys might give up on McCoy already, but if you can get RG3, I guess you can't pass him up. The guy is a beast. What was Colt a 3rd rounder?

my take is he wants $$$ and he'll go wherever he can get top dollar. Makes sense as this is probably his only big money contract chance. I think he knows Cleveland mgt is Cap-constrained and well think he isn't worth much.

I think he actually likes Cleveland, he always says he wants to retire a Brown. Could be lieing but he seems genuine. Dude is a screwy goofball though, who knows what that guy actually thinks?

McCoy is a super leader and tough, but the fact is his arm strength is pretty poor by NFL standards. Sad to say I think he's pretty much as good as he's going to be, and I think Browns mgt thinks the same. Holmgren pretty much has said Cleveland can't win without an elite QB running the West Coast offense. Given how bad the rest of the entire offense is, the quickest way for them to get better is upgrade the QB position. If the Browns can't get an elite QB prospect like RG3 or Luck I think they should go WR at 4, but hey if you get a chance at a franchise QB I think you gotta take it in their spot.

That being said, sounds like the Rams want a million picks for the number 2 slot, so I'm going to guess Cleveland won't actually get RG3 and McCoy will be the Qb again next year.

Yeah, I forgot that the Redskins will probably give the Rams all their picks to move up to that spot for RG3.

But man, I hate that West Coast Offense, you really need an offense to be in complete sync for it to work, and some good WRs. I think Colt can run it, but I don't really think Holmgren can make it happen.

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@gla55jAw said:

Yeah, I forgot that the Redskins will probably give the Rams all their picks to move up to that spot for RG3.

But man, I hate that West Coast Offense, you really need an offense to be in complete sync for it to work, and some good WRs. I think Colt can run it, but I don't really think Holmgren can make it happen.

Sadly I think you're right.

I agree Colt can run it especially given that West Coast uses a lot short passes, but I don't think he's not good enough to win without elite talent around him. And man are the Browns light years away from havinganyone worth anything on offense besides one offensive lineman. They pretty much need to upgrade 7-8 spotson offense. Especially Wideout, the Browns WRs core is the worst I've ever seen. It's bad stuff.

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