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yukoasho

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Gender, Equality and the Search for Common Ground.

I hate this topic so very, very much. I spent way longer than maybe I should have contemplating whether I wanted to type this here blog out, but here goes.

Sexism in gaming. Yes, I'm going into that tornado, even knowing what I'm about to subject myself to.

See, the second-to-last The Point has me once more thinking about this topic, and while I agree that it's something that needs to change if gaming is to ever evolve, I also think that the topic has to nuance itself a bit more.

See, while there are discussions about what happens in the workplace of gaming - where the real issue is - so much of our time is spent talking about character appearance. Once a woman in tight outfit or a low-cut blouse comes on screen, that's what they are. No one talks about her personality or role in the story (save when a Mario game comes out and the tired Princess Peach rants are recycled). Nope, it boils down to tits and ass, because heaven forbid women be beautiful, right?

I find it funny because the PS3/360 generation has given us some of the most interesting female characters in recent memory, from Bayonetta and Morrigan (Dragon Age) to Oerba Yun Fang and Crystal Dynamics' recent re-imagining of Lara Croft. Even characters like Sheva Alomar, Anya Stroud and Princess Hilda have their moments.

Unfortunately, when the discussion only ever goes negative, when the Anita Sarkesians of the world turn every low top and pretty face into some attack on all women everywhere, it obscures the real problem - that women working in the industry have a shit time in a lot of companies.

Also, the assumption that "dudebro" games are somehow what men want to be is pants-on-head retarded, not to mention very, very selective. The assertion that games like Gears of War are "power fantasy," or that all - or even most - men want to be the sort of mindless slabs of beef that detractors think of the Gears characters is a prime example of the misandry that prevents either side from finding common ground.

On a side note, the word "misandry" wasn't in the Firefox spell checker. That should tell you everything you need to know about how one-sided the sexism debate is.

So what common ground do all gamers, male and female, have?

1. We like video games. No shit, right? We don't like being pigeonholed into the nonsense of casual/facebook/social games.

2. We're getting increasingly tired of the increasingly iterative business model of so many games companies. We like variety, so long as the games are still fun.

3. We'd rather not have characters in larger games be cardboard cutouts or tired ass cliches. Interesting characters make for better game stories, which helps with long games, especially marathon-length RPG games and similar.

4. We want the most qualified, passionate people making these things, as that's the best way to make better, more thoughtful games.

I'm sure we can come up with more common ground, but that's a good place to start. None of these things are helped by women being made unwelcome or uncomfortable in the gaming industry. Nor is it helped by harassing and punishing female gamers. Indeed, quite the opposite is true; by narrowing who is allowed to work in gaming or play games, stagnation will reign supreme, at least until gaming dies entirely, which is entirely possible given how shaky many game companies' financial standing seems to be.

None of this precludes women (or men) who dress or act in a sexually provocative manner. Sex, as we all know, is pretty cool too. The issue is when sex appeal is all that a woman has, which is what makes games like Scarlet Blade such a chore to play. Fun, interesting ideas, depth, these are universal things that both men and women enjoy.

We also enjoy being respected. No one wants to feel like they don't matter or, worse, like they're being pushed out because of their gender (or religion, sexual orientation, etc, etc...). A welcoming industry integrates diverse people into it, and thus has more and more diverse ideas, which helps to combat stagnation as you have different people coming up with ideas to please more and more diverse audiences.

That, in the end, is why sexism in gaming needs to be approached in a deeper way than "this character has huge tits, BURN THE WITCH!" Ending sexism in the gaming workplace helps us all, making for more and more diverse ideas. And ideas, in the end, are what gaming requires to survive.

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13 Comments

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Oldirtybearon

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Edited By Oldirtybearon

Working on solutions to weed out discrimination in the workplace (gender or otherwise) is hard. Wagging your finger at a caricature like the sorceress in Dragon's Crown is a lot easier; you get to stand on the moral high ground without actually earning it.

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Darji

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That was a really well written Blog post and I totally agree with you here. The discussions right now are so mindless and stupid and they also will never solve the real problems and important issues because everyone gets tired of these discussions.

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l4wd0g

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That was great. keep up the good work.

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TobbRobb

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Edited By TobbRobb

Oh thank god, a sensible post on the matter. I was getting real tired of all the bullshit arguments from all sides.

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deactivated-5e49e9175da37

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Thumbs up.

Though I consider people's aversion to sexuality or expressions of sexuality and workplace harassment to be two wholly separate issues. People deciding how slutty or prudish they want to be is up to them, being subjected to abuse or discrimination in the workplace is universally unacceptable.

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granderojo

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I think what few people understand about Sarkeesian is that she is a pundit for feminism. He opinions are consumed more for their entertainment value as much as they are at this point for any sort of intellectual stimulation. Those who like her opinions, you can see them on her facebook page after any of her videos are posted revel in the fact that others hate them. Those that hate her videos find enjoyment of hating them, and the people that like the videos. It's what drives the views and her popularity.

She's no different than Bill O'Reilly for that matter. I think Danny hit it on the head in his video, there's not even an attempt by either side to find a common ground, there's just those finding enjoyment over being assholes to each other.

The best thing we can do is just be excellent to each other, so that's what I'm trying to do. We do that by trying to find where everyone has common ground and proceeding on from there.

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NMC2008

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Edited By NMC2008

I wanna kill more women in video games, when can I expect this?

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taig

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Using the word "retarded" immediately makes me want to disregard your point, but I'm not clear on what your point is. When you diminish instead of refute the "Anita Sarkesians of the world" you sound like someone on the wrong side of this issue.

It is fine to disagree with a feminist about feminism. No one person owns the moral high ground, but when you attack with a broad stroke specifically women who champion this issue (even in a manner you disagree with)...in an argument about feminism. You look like the bad guy. Even if you aren't. This is not a problem with your argument exactly, it just makes me doubt you.

The best thing we can do is just be excellent to each other, so that's what I'm trying to do. We do that by trying to find where everyone has common ground and proceeding on from there.

What? Everyone having the same common ground seems incredibly boring. Be nice to people sure, but don't expect them to share your perspective. That is impossible. Instead are you suggesting a compromise solution? The idea that compromise is always the solution seems silly, because what if I believe it isn't. You say it is. I say it isn't. You say it is... see my point. Sometimes people are just right, and other people are just wrong. Maybe you are a moral relativist and don't believe in that nonsense about rightness. A moral relativist who believes in a monoculture that should swallow up individuality to the point where we no longer disagree about anything is someone I can respect. That is a bold stance sir. It solves all moral problems, but It sounds scary. Also it reminds me of Gattaca. Im gonna go watch Gattaca.

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C2C

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Edited By C2C

I will preface this by saying that I agree with your conclusion (there needs to be more nuance to this discussion than "OMG the tits are huge = misogyny). I will be the huge jerk here and say that most of the blog's arguments are either bad assertions, or the arguments need more to them. I will say however, that the blog made a couple of good poitns, so kudos on that. I will address the problems I see with the blog behind a spoiler tag, so that a huge wall of text doesn't take up too much space.

EDITS: they were made.

So right from the get go, the blog says that no one is really talking about a female character's role in a video game's story. That is really incorrect, as that is probably one of the more focused on aspects about this whole topic. An important part of the debate is how a female character's appearance typically defines her role in a video game rather than personality. While I agree that the industry is improving with better female characters, the concern is whether there is enough of them. An interesting point I was kinda disappointed that the blog didn't touch on, was how bad the argument is that female characters lack personality. When characters in general (male and female) lack personality in video games, saying that female characters lack personality is pretty weak when their male counterparts fare no better.

The point about dudebro games is kinda weak. This would be a very excellent point if the blog had something to show that dudebro's don't want to be like gears of War/CoD. But the blog is essentially countering an assumption with another assumption. The blog can't just say that the assumption that most dudebro's wanna be like dudebro games is "pants-on-head retarded" without some hard numbers that your assumption is more accurate than their assumption.

Two of the common ground points are weak. The third point is great for story based games, but doesn't really address multiplayer focused games where cliches are usually used. The fourth point is assuming that video game players actually care about the people who make the game. While its very easy to point to high profile figures like Miyamoto and Kojima, does anybody really follow up on the credentials on who worked on games like Madden or Need for Speed? Be very careful of attributing traits that are really only present in the enthusiast crowd. I am with you that there is probably more common ground to be shared, but the blog didn't do a good job at showing it.

The point regarding the industry are generally pretty good. While the "stagnation of the industry will lead to its doom" point is predicting a doomsday scenario that I don't entirely agree with, I will meet you halfway and agree that it is a very bad thing for the industry.

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Gordy

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Edited By Gordy

When you try to boil down Sarkeesian's innocuous videos of societal pressures and gender roles as her somehow proclaiming they're "attacks on women," it's really hard to take anything else you say seriously. That's just eye-rollingly ridiculous.

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sammo21

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Edited By sammo21

I really don't see how people find the new version of Lara Croft as "deep" or "interesting". She just came off as an immortal punching bag for which the developers to enact the softcore equivalent of torture porn. None of her interactions or story were interesting.

I also still l don't understand misogynistic claims against GTAV as EVERY character and person in that universe is deplorable, disgusting, and worth not ever knowing in real life: man or woman.

Just like race, there are worth while and interesting conversations to be had, but unfortunately the conversations from most people on both sides is vitriolic, preachy, and doesn't do anything to proclaim a worthwhile narrative. The most vocal and tiny minority are treated as some sort of dominant part of the culture that is given far too much press and credit, and yes I am talking about the trolls. People like Anna Sarkeesian, and others as seen in recent board posts, paint people she disagrees with broad brush strokes just like those who disagree with her do the same.

Women make up a majority of gamers, right? If they have problems then they should vote with the most powerful tool they have: their wallet. Talk to your husbands or boyfriends or family and tell them how you feel and why you can't support a product or developer. Even if they don't agree or follow suit they at least have someone who isn't demonizing them for having a penis and not thinking Tomb Raider wasn't important in 2013.

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granderojo

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@taig said:
@granderojo said:

The best thing we can do is just be excellent to each other, so that's what I'm trying to do. We do that by trying to find where everyone has common ground and proceeding on from there.

What? Everyone having the same common ground seems incredibly boring. Be nice to people sure, but don't expect them to share your perspective. That is impossible. Instead are you suggesting a compromise solution? The idea that compromise is always the solution seems silly, because what if I believe it isn't. You say it is. I say it isn't. You say it is... see my point. Sometimes people are just right, and other people are just wrong. Maybe you are a moral relativist and don't believe in that nonsense about rightness. A moral relativist who believes in a monoculture that should swallow up individuality to the point where we no longer disagree about anything is someone I can respect. That is a bold stance sir. It solves all moral problems, but It sounds scary. Also it reminds me of Gattaca. Im gonna go watch Gattaca.

I recently watched Gattaca for the first time. Incredible film.

That said, I was making an argument against biculturalism. Consensus on certain issues does not disqualify multiculuralism or pluralism for that matter. Things like not harassing people should be something agreed upon as something not cool.

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EXTomar

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Edited By EXTomar

What id perpetually disappointing about "modern discourse" on The Internet is how personal everyone takes every conflict. I do not nor ever hate anyone who disagrees with me on topics. Even the controversial ones like gender. Hell, I don't "know" most of the people on this message board beyond their posting quirks which is not enough to know anyone let alone like or hate them. I really dislike how people can take disagreements as a personal insult because that just makes discussion that much harder.

The "common ground" on this topic is probably something like this: We all like it when video games are made. There is nothing wrong with older games while there is more to do make future games more balanced.