All Systems Goku 16

08:06 - "He's out there trying to get more powerful so that he can easily suck off the androids"

How did they not even chuckle

@stordoff: You know what I meant haha. Video games are simply one aspect of what sites like GameSpot and IGN cover now, rather than being "the thing" they cover. They are still the main thing overall, sure, but not like they were. They are entertainment sites now, not video game sites. That is hardly the same thing as talking about wrestling while talking about video games, having had a now-dead wrestling podcast (that was Premium-only, was it not?), or a once-a-week, 40- to 50-minute podcast about a decades-old anime haha.

@daniel_newton: I'd say, give the guy the benefit of the doubt, and assume his tone was mostly in response to the insult, rather than the opinion. I don't get mad when someone likes something different than me, but I do when someone sets out to insult me over it. A second person being an asshole doesn't counter out the first, but hey, we're all human.

@undeadpool: It does make me curious how Toriyama would have had Androids 19 and 20 sustain an arc. Perhaps additional characters from the time of the Red Ribbon Army would have somehow been brought back.

@miceman64: You're right. That slide whistle keeps the show tone-perfect. The show is about upping power levels and becoming more and more powerful. For the most part, Faulconer's music hits that on the head. If you don't prefer it, then you don't prefer it, but it is just as fitting as the original score.

@doncabesa: I mean exactly Bruce Faulconer music. I don’t understand how this is ear poison. https://youtu.be/48XYBDLPNCc

It's like an audible migraine, it's pure crap.

Bruce Faulconer's soundtrack would be really sweet if you stripped out like half of the channels from every track. The baseline and ripping guitar are sweet but then there's a ton of frantic chip-tuny/midi stuff on top of it that just screams "this was composed in the 90s and children were the target audience." Like the Genesis had a sweet sound chip but that doesn't mean it's then a good idea to mix Genesis-style beats with real instrumental work.

I'm curious about that as well. I feel like it would've been a lot more with 20, and maybe Gero being a lot more evasive. More Red Ribbon stuff could've worked, 16 IS based on Gero's kid after all. His kid murdered by Goku which...just makes the whole thing so much muddier. I feel like that should have been as big of a moment as Goku realizing he killed his grandpa as a Great Ape, but it got unearthed so much later. And there were VERY few references to OG Dragon Ball, so that could've been neat.

Actually Dragon Ball Z is wuxia through and through, but it's entirely fine if you want to hold onto your image of DBZ as hardcore sci-fi action because you watched a westernization that striped out most of the eastern philosophy/mysticism and replaced the very kung-fu movie score with electronic/synth music when you were a kid, thus forever painting your mental image of what Dragon Ball Z "is". Just don't pretend it fits anything other than the English dub.

This episode lots of sucking off and a legend of the overfiend reference. Did not realise how different Kai was from the original series, more adult I guess?

Great podcast Jeff & Dan. Please Continue.

With the amount of times they use the phrase "suck off", I'm glad as fuck I didn't listen to this episode in the car.

Every single character on this show is so f-king stupid.

@TechnoSyndrome: I'd completely agree with Dragon Ball being a wuxia. I'm having a hard time believing they kept these same themes shown there throughout all of DBZ unless the dubbing took some reeeeallll big liberties. admittingly I've only seen the dub, but rewatching the series in Kai which supposedly follows more closely to the manga and I'm still getting the sense that the show's arc is mostly comprised of villains and heroes one-upping each other with their next "new form."

I am interested in thematic differences in the dub and original writing. If you can list any off the bat I'd be pleased. Thanks!

@fr0br0: The dub has always gotten rid of any reference to Ki/Chi and replaced it with more ambiguous terms like energy, or even using the villain term "power level" well past the Freeza arc when power levels stop being relevant. DBZ from start to finish is still about martial artists training to fight and save the world, but even in the Kai dub they often rewrite or reword it to be just about the pure pursuit of strength rather than any of the deeper spiritual themes martial arts are associated with. (Which is not to say they're not also ultimately trying to get stronger in the original) This is a big theme in DBZ when it starts to get into more sci-fi territory and becomes kung-fu/spirituality versus science in instances like all of Freeza's army using scouters to misguidedly look at pure numbers while the heroes know how to naturally control their ki to hide their power, and for similar reasons when fighting the Androids.

(Also as a random aside, the video games do often keep the term Ki to describe energy blasts or super meters despite the dub absolutely never using it, so if you can remember some of the English cast saying it that's why.)

@netagexi: The synthy parts at 0:09 and 0:45 are a bit much. But damn are the good parts of his scores amazing.

do they not show goku eat in kai?

I'm glad Jeff validated the feelings I had about the way Cell sucks up the Androids. I had weird nightmares about it when I originally saw these episodes and thought I was just being over-sensitive but good to know I wasn't the only one who felt super uncomfortable.

@artysixo3: My memories of the original series might be blending here but I'm pretty sure Kai shows Goku pigging out on King Kai's planet. There are a few scenes showing all of the Saiyans absolutely chowing down like monsters that are coming up in the future though, and I am certain they made the Kai cut: right after Goku and Ghan emerge from the Time Chamber, and at the meal before the World Martial Arts Tournament starts.

I haven't seen most of the kai versions, but how much do they cut if they aren't sure if they've seen GOKU eat?

They did show Goku eat on Kaio's planet, and in what will be episode 18 of ASG, when Goku and Gohan finish up their training. - Some good eating during Tenkaichi Budokai from the Saiyans in the next saga but I feel like I heard they didn't cut as much out of The Final Chapters.

@cyberspacecat: They cut 23 episodes in the english dub (the English dub included an additional 8 episodes which were cut in the original Japanese version for whatever reason). In comparison, regular Kai cut 101 episodes out of the Saiyan Saga through Cell Saga (and Otherworld Tournament, which takes up about a minute of the last episode of Kai). So while the Kai version definitely still moves at a better pace than the original Buu Saga, it's nowhere near as abridged as regular Kai is.

Yeah, I got that impression, just from how it felt a tad bit slower than the Kai sagas leading up to it, I'll certainly admit it bumbles around in certain spots despite it being my favourite of the Z sagas, I just think it just has so much fun stuff and good moments in it that it barely feels like it drags. Cell saga has a greater finale though.

@undeadpool: His kid murdered by Goku

Just to clear this up a bit, Gero’s kid was not killed by young Goku.

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Android_16%27s_template

More compelling if he had been!

Goku is VERY cavalier with violence in Dragon Ball and having that come back to bite him would have been interesting.

Then again I'm a sucker for when they bring back old, subtle things (Freeza having never trained a day in his life, for instance, as the solution to his sudden power boost in Resurrection F).

It's called a Rocket Punch.

This is true but ignore the DB wikia for any information when it comes to DB. It's inaccurate garbage.