The Giant Beastcast: Episode 182

I get the frustrations with Red Dead 2, but I also love that a big AAA game took these kinds of chances. It might be flawed but I still love the game, though there's probably other games I liked more this year. Diving into Hitman 2 for instance, and I could see it overtaking my enjoyment of RDR2. Love me some Agent 47 antics so its good to hear they like it too so far.

I appreciate what RDR2 does, but that game is officially a waste of my time so I fell off at what the midway part of Chapter 2 and I genuinely don't know if I'll get back to it. For all of the chances that they take, I just don't feel like it's a remotely fun game to play.

Rockstar games have always had story missions that were more linear than the open-world gameplay leads you to believe. I'm just used to it by now.

I've never gone to a store on Black Friday. Seems awful.

@someoneproud: how so?

I mean I’m someone who loves some of the stuff he complained about, I love how slow and methodical the game is, I love contemplation and that the game force me to take my time.

On the other hand, it’s a game that completely fails to capitalize on its open world and its systems. For all the (great) systemic stuff the game does, its main content is an overtly linear, overwritten bad shooter. Open world design made strides since the first Red Dead, the fact that the game utterly fails to recognize that and use this antiquated design is a major disappointment to me. It’s not like Rockstar doesn’t have the money/manpower to do it.

For me it’s my biggest disappointment of the year if you consider its potential versus its delivery. It is absolutely the best open world ever put in a game, but it utterly fails to make anything out of it that wasn’t done years ago.

Dan played the game wrong. Burnt himself out on all the side stuff then tried to rush through forty hours of story.

I'm very much looking forward to discovering how Gritty comes up in conversation again in this 3-HOUR Beastcast.

I'm actually with Dan, I like going out midnight on Black Friday just to be there. It isn't as bad as most people act and it can be kind of fun with friends at the mall. I also kind of agree with with Dan and Alex on RDR2. I like the game, but man is it frustrating sometimes. It will probably be on my top 10 this year, but it isn't GOTY for me.

That chapter 6 stuff in Red Dead that both Dan and Alex seemed not to like were some of my favorite parts of the game. Fantastic character building, and the missions were fun and interesting.

Calling it now, Dan is going to quit the game after doing the epilogue cow milking tutorial.

Also ten minute drives between starting a mission and doing the mission is a Rockstar staple. I enjoyed it way more here than in GTAV because I actually found the characters here interesting, while in V I couldn't wait until they died so they would shut up.

I concur. That sounds rough. I have been playing main mission only, and the side quests as they come up and ignored for the most part the hunting and fishing. And it has been an incredible journey, despite my own complaints about parts of the game mechanics. For reference, I am in the last mission of chapter 6.

I could not imagine trying to 100% this as you go like that. I have always finished the story first, then come back at a later time to finish everything else.

@fear_the_booboo: tbh I was mostly being glib. I agree with the points you've made but none of the negatives had a significant enough impact for me to be disappointed in the game personally. Parts of the game could be better but the stuff I'm there for gets it so right it barely registers as a problem for me.

R* was pretty clear even at pre-release that this was going to be a long game with a focus on immersion, that's what I was looking for and they delivered in spades. Dan should've known what he was getting into and his expecting it to be just like red dead 1 seems naive and unreasonable, he clearly doesn't have the patience the game demands (and that's fine... if predictable)

The game wasn't made for everyone, playing a style of game he obviously wouldn't like and then complaining about that style seems misguided and petty, I've no issue with his opinions on the mechanics or mission structure. So I'll rephrase:

Dan is ~70% wrong about red dead 2

I'm in Chapter 6 of RDR2, not sure how long it is until I finish it, but I still intend to do so despite the drags. I'm enjoying it more. I just hope this tempers Dan teaches him a lesson about hyping himself up, because he and Abby have been going gaga over this game well before its release.

I stopped subscribing to the Beastcast 6 months ago, but not to the Bombcast...

Why is this in my subscribed cue in iTunes again now? (mistakenly uploaded as Bombcast???)

Edit: Saw Vinny's answer now. So, really a mistake, no deliberate merger.

@someoneproud: ahah that’s fair, I might’ve got overly riled up (and didn’t see that there was an earlier comment that was the opposite of yours).

Breaking news about Dan!

Dan has failed to get out of the Hinterlands.

Please use this as a revelation that an initial goal to 100% a game is madness and folly and that's what you do at the end when you realize you really like it already.

Dan's turn on Red Dead is my experience with every Rockstar game I've ever tried. Incredibly impressive worlds that are fun to dick around in, but the actual playing of the game part always seems to be such a pain in the ass I can't be bothered.

I’ve finished the story in RDR2 and now excitedly cleaning up all the side stuff to get 100%... I can honestly say no game has had me so invested in damn near everything it has to offer like this game. It seems silly to say with it being so fresh, but I truly believe it is my favorite game of all time.

With that said... I can 100% see Dans point/frustration with it. It is a LOT to take in & at times it feels like it’s actively pushing against you enjoying it. The story got me through those instances and while I absolutely enjoy the gameplay, it does feel like it is the weakest part of the game.

I haven't played RDR2 (waiting for PC) but it's been fun reading peoples reactions to it. Seems like the hype train has lost some steam.

Sounds like GOTY discussions are (again) going to be nuts this year with how divisive the most anticipated game of the year is turning out to be.

I'm both dreading, and looking forward to it.

@cornfed40: I think it may have something to do with the fact that Columbia is where Mizzou is (where I went around the time Dan was at KU and the major state University) and they're rival schools. Many people from other states either recognize Columbia because of Mizzou or my hometown St. Louis. Jefferson City never really comes up outside of documentaries on meth.

You're not wrong but also I will admit that despite living here all my life I'm reasonably confident I've made this mistake in the past.

Im from Mississippi!

I love that Jeff seems to have no idea what Pokemon is about and seems to think that Humans and Pokemon are at war or something. My 95 year old grandpa knew what Pokemon was about, I kind of think Jeff might be the only person who has no idea what Pokemon is about.

My ultimate moment of frustration from RDR2 came when I spent 15 minutes hauling a stolen wagon to a fence, only to have the left horse of the carriage barely clipped the door and in an attempt to put it in reverse, the ''wagon became too damaged to sell" which was a product of controls, at the very end of a time consuming and resource spent endeavor. Frustrating.

That much said, I am probably at the final chapter and I have enjoyed probably 90% of this, as Dan put it, a saga for the last 3 weeks. That one thing, the big thing that annoys most people late game, I burned through in one sitting and also feel it does not need to be there, that much said, it's behind me and stopped playing for a moment. To compliment what Alex was saying, if you take a break, come back and look to unchain and have some fun with it, it shines again.

I think Dan honestly is full of hyperbole and his black and white logic is his own to make, but I think at least in part by nature, Dan is feeling with the controls with what Alex felt with AC odyssey, in that trying to burn through something, opinion is soured by context, not by the quality of the game all said and done. Every angle is fair, and yeah, I get annoyed by this game especially with the mission leashing arthur's range, when I cut loose and emulate the goofin' I did in RDR1, it's been a really good time, which I think maybe Dan is too frustrated to allow himself at this point..

I see where everyone with issues with controls and structure come from, but "I think I hate red dead' is a sad result of both the game's ambitions in front of pace, as well as Dan's hours played smashed so close together, like trying to binge watch 18 seasons of a show in one day. Or somethin'.

This is also worth quoting and is good video game health advice I agree with 100% of

That thumbnail looks way too much like Alex.

Only in Ch2 in RDR2 but I already feel burned out because I did too many side/other stuff.

Did not expect RDR2 to be such a polarizing game. Maybe it's because I came in with lowered expectations, having disliked both the first Redemption and GTAV, but I've been so engrossed in 2 that I've not had any of the frustrations a lot of others seem to be having with it. I love the story and the world design. I don't mind riding from place to place, rather than fast traveling, because even after 30-40 hours, I'm still finding interesting things along the way.

And maybe I'm being forgiving on the mission structure and restrictions because I knew to expect that sort of thing coming in, but it still hasn't bothered me regardless. I love having a game that's so deliberately slow-paced and doesn't feel the need to throw combat at you every 5 seconds. Whatever it is, this game has hooked me in ways no other Rockstar game has. Shame a lot of other people have had a bad experience.

As someone who did not like RDR1 and was not at all interested in RDR2, my interest and excitement for GotY has grown exponentially.

I really think RDR 2 is more enjoyable when you take your time with it, which means taking some days off between playing it and not just powering through the main story like a crazy person... at least that's how I've always played Rockstar's games.

dan had the exact same arc with witcher 3, but yeah if i played either of those games with the intent to finish as soon as possible i would probably feel similar

GOTY is going to be good also hopefully the Tetris Effect will be a dark horse winner.

Glad to hear Alex is trying out Gal Metal, a bit sad and not surprised that he is down on it.

I can only assume its already too late to read this on before they record the Quick Look for Gal Metal, but I want to make sure that Alex knows about Tak Fuji's (Producer of Gal Metal) guide to the game to see if it might help solve some of his frustrations:

https://sites.google.com/u/0/s/19ox3TQ5zBUpiV51lN1mKZVkpp0p44dhp/p/0B6A8KuCWtJz2TzZnd0ZOcVhZWTQ/preview?authuser=1

I don't have the game yet due to other games on the horizon that I'm more interested in, but the idea of Gal Metal sounds to be a bold experiment for a small rhythm game.

Man I love Psyduck so much, and now I need to watch Detective Pikachu just to see coked out Psyduck

Gloomhaven is superb although if you only do one off scenarios then it does get old quickly

Never got out of chapter 2 in RDR2. Too much tedious garbage in the way of actually playing the game. It's the first Rockstar game I actually hate. Thank God for Hitman 2 and the new AC Odyssey patch. They should keep me busy for a few weeks.

For as much as my gaming tastes and background are almost completely different from Dan's, one thing we do have in common is that I have ripped mp3's of Hell March 2 and Grinder (among a few other C&C pieces) on my phone as part of a regular listening rotation.

Hell March 2 is the best piece of videogame music in existence, but Grinder fucking RIPS!

Wow, it's really hard reconciling these negative comments about RDR 2 with my own experiences of the game. I have had to tear myself away from it at the end of each session for the last three weeks. I'm at the end of Chapter 4 and have loved every story mission so far. It's particularly hard to understand how people who loved the first game are not enjoying this one, it really is a very similar experience in most regards. Can't wait to dive back in tomorrow.

I'm in the same boat twitterbeef, I can totally understand where people are coming from but I love it's slower pace. I'll agree the core system pretty much sucks but I don't even think about it now. They give you so many items, that around mid Chapter 2, I realized my inventory is going to constantly be full. I just started using some of this stuff and it wasn't even anything I ever really thought about again. Near the end of chapter 4 myself so will be interesting to see if it "Falls off a cliff" as Dan says. Granted I think it's slower pace isn't for his attention span, and losing a big chunk of process do to a technical issue while trying to speed run through something would no doubt leave me with a negative feeling.

Dan's turn on Red Dead 2 inversely makes me more excited to play it when it (hopefully) eventually comes to PC. Because I know the kind of games Dan likes, and everything he's talking about how slow and deliberate the game it makes it sound like something I'd adore.

i recall Dan going through a similar arc with Witcher 3. the parallels between the two games are strong so it makes sense; W3 and RDR2 are my two favorite games of this generation for a lot of the same reasons.

going into a game this huge with the goal of attaining 100% completion from the very beginning is insane though lol. RDR2 is significantly longer and larger in scale than RDR1, and simultaneously expects a lot more out of the player.

Yeah, I think this makes sense. I certainly found that was my situation with Zelda: Breath of the Wild last year. I would play it a bunch, then take a week or two off, even a month, and play some other game, then eventually come back around. Powering through a large open-world game inevitably leads to burnout.

Except Dan somehow powered through all of BotW in a few weeks and was still enamoured with it by the end, which is baffling to me. I love that game, but even I found it to get old after a while if you played it nonstop.

GO OFF KING

Playing the Yakuza games for years and years taught me exactly this. I beat RDR2 and loved every slow, methodical moment I had with the game, with the exception of some issues (it's no 10/10). This is coming from someone who thinks Rockstar has always been overrated (I've said it on here before), with all of their games being alright to bad. Absolutely shocked me that the writing for once wasn't trash.

I do hope this years GOTY discussions don't turn into last years trainwreck.

I love how Vinny bringing up GOTY in the show led his analogy being true of the game stock market in the comments. "DAN HATES IT. RDR2 STOCKS ARE DOWN"

@clintlandon:

agree 100%. the self jerk and self indulgence in the rockstar games just isn't fun. ever since i played saints row I realized GTA controls were ass and that was over 10 years ago. None of the stories hooked me and the game itself never felt as fun to play as it should. I played through RDR and really didn't see what all the fuss was about. RDR2 looks even worse for that.

Glad to see some people speaking out and not falling into a blind circlejerk like what usually happens.

i also always enjoy this time of year the people who turn up their noses to black friday. get off it, it's a great time to get some stuff on sale. not everything is a good deal but they have a lot of good ones. and the chaos the media likes to show has never been my experience and I've been going out doing this for over a decade. I'll wait in a line, head in, find what I want and get out. No fights, no fuss.

I'll say it again, Jeff is secretly very Old Dan like when it comes to games. Way too cool to have ever played a game in the 3rd biggest game franchise ever.