Giant Bombcast 02/25/2014

That Brad Vs. Jeff argument was awesome and a little awkward. More arguing, please.

You can tell Jeff spent too much time on the internet over the weekend, he actually starts sounding like a forums poster at one point. He didn't just laugh off Brad's weirdly antagonistic opinion and move on like he usually does.

It was odd hearing it from Brad (one of the biggest Quake supporters out there) that deathmatch wasn't his thing anymore, though.

@vinny I think you'd have to go younger then 20-25 Vinny even my brother at 18 knows who Tony Hawk is mostly due to the games but he knows who he is. At 25 myself I knew who he was before the games even came out and was a common name unlike say John Madden. All I knew for a long time as a child is he was some creepy old man on a game box. Which I would pass by as I looked to rent TMNT IV Turtles in Time at my local video rental store.

That verbal beat down that Brad got courtesy of Jeff was so intense that I felt bad for Brad. Even though Jeff was totally right.

quote unquote

I think there has been tension between Brad and Jeff since Brad posted on twitter he's thinking about leaving giant bomb for an unnamed position working on Dota 2.

Australian thong guys are amazing.

Jeff Vs Brad - finish it with either a DOTA 2 match or a Windjammers game to decide who wins, it'll be a bloodbath!

How about:

On Thief:

Brad: "I played it for about 1 1/2 hours. Seemed bad and broken."

Jeff: "Yea, I got the same feeling."

On PvZ:Modern Warfare:

Brad: "I really kinda liked it a lot."

Jeff: "It really didn't do that much for me."

Brad: "DID YOU PLAY ALL 11 STAGES?!??!??!?!??!"

It's painful to listen to people argue over personal preference, especially when they're so diametrically opposed. Neither Brad or Jeff will be able to affectively hear the other's argument since Jeff has always expressed a lukewarm opinion on horde mode and Brad has always expressed a lukewarm opinion on team based shooters. They were arguing over intangibles, which is fruitless.

Actually, the only winning move here was not to play.

Maybe it is just me but I really enjoyed playing both Titanfall and Garden Warfare. They offer different gameplay experiences and I enjoy both styles.

@chiefslapaho: Jeff was a total jerk to Brad. I'm pretty fed up with the way he just plows over everyone when he feels like it. More Brad, less Jeff for the win.

How dare you be a reasonable person :)

Who cares who won? The title graphic is hilarious after you get the context.

uh right that as well, yeah (PC person here) and control scheme was a bit insane, can't comment on controller, though I think Drew once played it during Unprofessional Friday? or some free equivalent.

@amafi:

I'm not entirely sure Brad said they have no strategy or that Brad is tired of that type of game. I'd need to listen to it again if I cared so much, but I get what you're saying, and I think for them to disagree is healthy for the Bombcast so I'm glad it was talked about. More so I have issues sometimes with how combative Jeff is with Brad's opinion most of the time. I have friends I'm like that with also, and it's just how it is. At least Jeff usually has something intelligent to say before contradicting Brad, although it is a bit much as a listener sometimes.

Agreed. I'm #teambrad for this one. Brainless deathmatch type FPS games are boring. Even BF4 is bad. It doesn't have the same sense of squad coherency as BF2. All because I have no idea who is talking nor any idea if anyone is receiving my VoIP messages. It's terrible. It baffles me that Jeff keeps lone-wolfing BF4. It's an empty gameplay experience.

NO I AM THE INTERNET

This is a silly thing to bicker about. Jeff and Brad are good friends. Have you ever wanted to punch your friend in the face? I do all the time and most of the time can't even remember why. What happened was mommy and daddy fought in front of the kids. Taking daddy's side hurts mommy and vice versa. Just remember that they both love you very much and would never hurt you. If you're good you'll get a special bubble bath later for being so brave. Also, fuck Brad, plants are lame.

Yeeeeh!! Fucking fight!

I'm kinda on the other side. I understood what Brad was trying to say, the overall concept of Garden Warfare is more unique and varied than Titanfall by a pretty large margin, but for whatever reason Jeff wasn't hearing it. I find I'm usually Pro-Gerstmann and Anti-Shoemaker when they've had scraps in the past, but Jeff tends to get pretty defensive when it comes to his gritty FPSs.

Who Framed Roger Rabbit gets a bad rap here, that's unfortunate.

I can see where your coming from. Jeff is fucking hilarious when he's bashing something you don't like, but on the few times he's gone off on something that I was a fan of, I found myself thinking "Yeah ok fuck you Jeff". But that's why the Giant Bombcast is the only gaming podcast I still listen to. I love their personalities and the way they play off each other. It's also the only gaming website that I respect the opinion of. Whenever I see a stupid fucking article on Kotaku (which is every day) I think to myself, "You wouldn't see this bullshit on GB."

@mortal_sb: if you should strike me down i shall become far more internet than you can ever imagine *_*

Ah, the opening advertisement for squarespace takes me back to diggnation.

Pretty sure these emotions have been brewing for a while now. Eventually Brad was gonna bite back. Love my bombcast and please keep doing what your doing! The dynamics are really entertaining and it's nice to have changes and controversies every week whether it's meatballs, Vinny hosting or meltdowns. Pretty sure games are about to start being released regularly now, but it has been a really entertaining game drought!!! Thanks Bombcast!

This is just another left trigger right trigger argument. Please be more tactical

Jeff saying that every shooter is just people lone wolfing it when you join a random server issss falllse.

Brads example of TF2 is a good one. That is a game where you specifically pick a class that your team needs if you want to win. You don't have to talk to anyone to contribute to a team effort.

The call of duty/titan fall style of games are definitely a lone wolf game. You just play what you are good at and it really doesn't matter as long as you have a good game.

@meatball said:

Yeah, like, he is clearly mostly bored by CoD but intrigued by Titanfall, and he seems to flip out if anyone dislikes CoD for any reason other than "Like you, Jeff, I have played that series for a few hundred hours, now I'm bored of it".

Whenever someone says they dislike it and that person has either barely played CoD, or only played like CoD 4 and nothing since then, Jeff seems to almost inevitably disagree with them. Jeff always seems annoyed when someone like Patrick says they don't like CoD anymore.

saying that multiplayer fps'es come down to just "left trigger right trigger" is so reductive its painful. just because a lot of them dont have a built in class system assigning explicit roles doesn't mean there isnt diverse strategy or depth to the game. the strategy required may be less obvious but it can still be there.

brad should get into cs go and acquiant himself with the intricacies in that game. No class systems, everyone is essentially on an even playing field as far as built in game mechanics. it doesn't matter how good you are at doing "left trigger right trigger" and killing dudes in a 1v1 duel, the ultimate singular goal of that game, if you don't have a good sense of how to use smoke/flash grenades, set up a push, manage your economy, consider your role within the team etc, if you don't strategize and consider these things you will fucking die. As far as pointing and shooting, i dont think theres much difference in skill between mid level and upper level players, what separates them is their overall knowledge of the game that allows them to be put in situations where they can kill successfully.

@indieslaw: @indieslaw said:

That true? Haven't finished listening yet but to me, that's almost akin to hating on Back to the Future or Indiana Jones (the good ones). I mean, I can see how conceptually it might not be everyone's cup of tea, but for all of my 28 years I've never met a single person who doesn't at least recognize it as a classic.

I introduced a girlfriend to it a couple years back and was personally surprised by how well it holds up... It's definitely up there in the best of the "movie magic" I can think of on the fly.

SudOHKO

Your inner puzzle fiend won't know what hit it.

Team Jeff. Fuck allayalls.

To be fair, Brad complaining about games where you're just lonewolfing it, or games where the entire mode is just "kill other guys faster than they kill you" was also the only point of Quake or UT, which Brad is totally fine with in those contexts. I agree that recent deathmatch games like CoD and Titanfall are less interesting than those examples, though.

At a certain point, running laps around deathmatch maps does get boring, and I agree with Brad that from a design standpoint, CoD and Titanfall maps are boring as fuck, and everybody does just feel basically the same except some guys run and up and shotgun you, everybody else shoots you from afar. I do vastly prefer TF2 or Battlefield, where so much is about holding positions, flanking, sneaking around positions, people have different roles and abilities, etc.

I think Brad's position makes way more sense than Jeff's in that TF2 and Battlefield games are conceptually more interesting, but also your standard team deathmatch has a certain appeal to it on occasion.

The general problem is that Brad picks pet issues with games or the business of games and then chooses to stake his cross on their hills and die upon them. He conflates his personal objections and his personal faults (inability to be proficient at a game style or a game mechanic) and then makes SWEEPING generalizations about the genre or the people who engage in the genre.

Whereas, Jeff has the ability to think about the wider picture. He will admit upfront when it's personal bias or personal distaste that is guiding his opinion and admit that "maybe it's just not my thing, but I can see how other people could enjoy it."

That is the mark of maturity. That is how mature adults discuss and debate an issue. Brad has palpable problems conflating his personal with his professional and, honestly, I find myself grimacing every moment he is schilling his opinion. And, the PERSISTENT DOTA 2 talk is not helping.

It was sweet release last week when he was momentarily gone. I feel like the conversations are less combative and the debates are more mature when Brad does not participate.

It is difficult to take any of Brad's opinions or conclusions as nothing more than speculative when he gets SO intensely wrapped up in his niche, pet issue obsessions. Game of the Year 2013 discussions tipified this.

On the Kiefer Sutherland Mortal Kombat discussion, I'm surprised no one guessed at what's perhaps the craziest—but also most likely character for Kiefer Sutherland to have voiced. DLC guest star Solid Snake.

@meauntienora: Misunderstanding. The film holds up fine, I saw it recently. I'm talking about the LJN NES game that, in my humble opinion, gets unfairly maligned. It's not terrible, and if you make one or two leaps in logic, it's kinda good.

Okay, I'll be bold. It's the greatest LJN game to ever have been produced, and the constant attacks on this classic are an equally constant injustice.

You punch people, weasels, and a rabbit ACROSS THE SCREEN. Argument over.

If you haven't listened to the regular bombcast, do so. Such a great ad spot at the beginning.

WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO WHEN GERSTMANNIA GOES WILD ON YOU.

I would pay good money to just listen to Vinny do his own personal recaps of convoluted game stories.

Drew's spot-on Christopher Lambert laugh out of nowhere was amazing.

I really hope it's just one guy doing it. Would make it so much better.

The picture for this podcast should have just been a pile of salt.

I am with Brad on that. It's pretty clear there are two kinds of shooters, one where everybody are equal (Titanfall, COD), one where there are actual classes with differences and things to do because of their design and function (TF2, PvZ) and not just "I want to sit back and snipe" choice. I would love for Titanfall to have gone that route even though it would have ended up even more FOTM. I'd love to be a dedicated mech healer rather than just another customized loadout.

Imagine War Thunder with only the best planes? That's how it is with its historical and somewhat accurate balance, Russian P63 T4 premium, fly it if you've got it because it's the best Russian T4. Then Mustangs for US T4. Etc. What diversity is left and plenty of it in the lower tiers is absolutely effing great and I would not want it any other way.

Souls games are in the COD style of doing everything the same because you can build your character those ways, Battlefields are really more class-based than anything because of how you change from picking up kits, unless they changed that.

Less mindless COD hurrdurr jump around point click and more actually having to use ones brain upon spotting an enemy, please. In War Thunder you don't engage on sight like you do in Titanfall, you gotta know the abilities of your own plane in flight and combat and agility, you gotta know the target, if it's got a gunner or several you gotta know their dead angles, you gotta know its weak points, you gotta know where to shoot, you gotta scan the horizon (or minimap if a blip is visible) for enemies, then you gotta have all the physics in mind. You're not going to take down a heavy bomber with five turrets in a Ki-10 even if you ram into it but you can always try.

I would absolutely play Vinny's Doom game.

Your criticisms of Brad I think are spot on but I disagree with this statement about Jeff as I find he narrowly defines many aspects of gaming and rejects anything outside those definitions, usually very vehemently. Look at how he talks about Red Dead Redemption; he rejects any idea that that game could be good based off the little amount time he actually spent with it, despite everyone else at Giantbomb singing its praises.