Giant Bombcast Giant Bomb's GOTY 2011 Deliberations: Day Five

I like Brad, I like Saints Row and Skyrim.

Why can't we all get along nicely?

giantasshole.com took me to vinny's page :D

Jesus guys without Brad this podcast would have been boring as fuck.

I like Brad, I like Saints Row and Skyrim.

Why can't we all get along nicely?

@Madz: No it didn't. Game is overrated.

I'm glad they didn't pick SR3.

It's a crazy game, but Game of the Year?

No way. The fun parts are, as so often, not the parts where you play, that's at least how i felt because 99% of the time you do nothing else but shoot at the same guys over and over again. Doesn't matter how crazy the cirumstances are, if the gameplay just stays the same.

this podcast goes all downhill once Mortal Kombat went off the list.

@CornBREDX said:

@FateOfNever: I appreciate you said that so succinctly. I felt that way last year. I didn't really care who won 2011 'cus as a whole 2011 was a good year for games, but man when Brad gets it into his head to fight for something he WONT SECEDE ANYTHING hahaha

Brad is from Dixieland after all, secession is in his blood. But I think you mean concede.

@chaosnovaxz said:

Man, all the arguments made against Saints Row 3 seem to apply to Skyrim, too.

I agree. Picking between those two games was really more about defining GB's brand than finding the better game. I thought it was really bold of Jeff to suggest SR3rd FTW. The game is balls out kinda fun and so is GB. These guys took a risk starting GB and they continue to make a name by putting themselves out there with innovative coverage, integrity and and fun-loving spirit. Picking SR3 would be representative of GB's spirit of disruption.

Skyrim, in contrast, felt like a choice of unrequited ambition. Skyrim is not exactly taking any radical risks except being bigger than anything that can be QC'd. So we give it handicap for all the bugs because its so audacious. I give GB some credit like that too (like for the stuttering video) but thats not because the site's ambitions are so giant, but because it is disruptive, a "bomb" if you will. I dont expect neat explosions.

Picking Skyrim just seemed a little out of character.

Edit: removed Brad comment. Confused him and Ryan.

@FirebirdINF said:

@chaosnovaxz said:

Man, all the arguments made against Saints Row 3 seem to apply to Skyrim, too.

I agree. Picking between those two games was really more about defining GB's brand than finding the better game. I thought it was really bold of Jeff to suggest SR3rd FTW. The game is balls out kinda fun and so is GB. These guys took a risk starting GB and they continue to make a name by putting themselves out there with innovative coverage, integrity and and fun-loving spirit. Picking SR3 would be representative of GB's spirit of disruption.

Skyrim, in contrast, felt like a choice of unrequited ambition. Skyrim is not exactly taking any radical risks except being bigger than anything that can be QC'd. So we give it handicap for all the bugs because its so audacious. I give GB some credit like that too (like for the stuttering video) but thats not because the site's ambitions are so giant, but because it is disruptive, a "bomb" if you will. I dont expect neat explosions.

Picking Skyrim just seemed a little out of character.

As for all the Brad hate on this thread, you guys dont realize that he is an amazing host. The 'cast would be slow as sjit if not for him. He talks a lot to give others time to think. Thats what hosts do. And what he says is fine most of the time.

As I said elsewhere, it felt like the reason "they" (read: "Ryan") couldn't back Saints Row for GOTY was the same sort of reasoning the Academy can never pick a Pixar movie to win the Best Film Oscar. It doesn't matter how great the movie is, it's just not the "serious" choice. "Yes yes, we know that it's great. That's why it's nominated and it won Best Animated Film. Now... did you see that SAD movie?"

Good final cast! Enjoyed that alot :)

Brad found it hard to articulate why skyrim was a better game in certain places. He didn't back down because everyone who was argueing for saints row 3 was doing so because it was the newest and most exciting. Yes its good but not even close to skyrim for sheer quality.

SR3 is well written and well designed, it breaks no new ground and certainly isn't that deep. And by deep i don't mean breadth of content as it has enough of that. Skyrim however breaks plenty of boundaries, in immersion and world realization, in quantity of content and the average high quality of said content.

I'm glad Brad didn't concede any ground, Saints Row is amazing but is simply not as good as Skyrim! It just surprised a lot of people and is in the center of a media hype storm at the moment.

@FateOfNever: =*(

@Duffyside: I feel like that's the cop-out way to look at it. You can't give GoTY this year to a game that (though suprising for it's franchise) just is about refinement and tasteful-ness across the board. It's solid but there's nothing special about it that makes it stand out. Yes, the writing and style is way out there and that's something to acknowledge but it's not a "quality" of a good game. Simply applauding it for being so outright ridiculous in spite of itself isn't the way to go in my opinion.

The reason why Brad was getting so flustered (he shouldn't have though!) is that the same comparison about breadth of the world was being made for Skyrim and it's simply a false comparison of a misunderstood dichotomy. Skyrim is yes, a lot larger and full of more content in the same way that SR is, but in an entirely different way.

Saints Row doesn't cross a cusp or new potential at the sheer breadth the way Skyrim does. It opens up new gameplay possibilities and wonderment that had simply not existed on this level -- Skyrim is arguably the most immersive, living breathing world for a single player narrative. When it hits that valley it changes the way you look at that game. It's a virtual world done better than anything before, to the point where the narrative structure no longer is necessary; you can play that damn game however you want.

I think that is what catapults it above and beyond SR:3, which is merely a tonal change for the series (or escalation rather) and refinement in writing and gameplay mechanics. It doesn't break any new ground suffice to say it would have won a Guinness record for insane writing for a video game.

SR winning would be far too political a choice, and it's obviously the "feel good"choice for representing this site and all it's about but I think that's as I said above, terribly political and even on the verge of advertising. It's like GB is endorsing that game at some point.

There was a reason for personal awards, and SR is part of the inclusion. There's the place for that. Choosing a game to reflect the reputation of the editorial staff, Saints Row would be the irresponsible choice.

GB can have it's fun, but that doesn't mean everything they do needs to reflect that.

@Duffyside: I don't think SR3 is exactly the "Up" or "Wall-e" of video games. If we're going with the movie comparison, it's probably most comparable to a great action/popcorn flick. It's just fun, and that's all it aspires to be.

@XenoZak: While I play skyrim on PC, it is a broken game on the PS3 and does not deserve an award because of it. This is very true when you take into account that they knocked Mortal Kombat out of the top 10 because of not working on release.

Fuck, that, shit.

Ryan, buddy, killing me. Work in 8 hours.

I'm gettin' the shakes.

Saints Row is more fun than Skyrim.

Any time now fellas.

@Duffyside: I feel like that's the cop-out way to look at it. You can't give GoTY this year to a game that (though suprising for it's franchise) just is about refinement and tasteful-ness across the board. It's solid but there's nothing special about it that makes it stand out. Yes, the writing and style is way out there and that's something to acknowledge but it's not a "quality" of a good game. Simply applauding it for being so outright ridiculous in spite of itself isn't the way to go in my opinion.

The reason why Brad was getting so flustered (he shouldn't have though!) is that the same comparison about breadth of the world was being made for Skyrim and it's simply a false comparison of a misunderstood dichotomy. Skyrim is yes, a lot larger and full of more content in the same way that SR is, but in an entirely different way.

Saints Row doesn't cross a cusp or new potential at the sheer breadth the way Skyrim does. It opens up new gameplay possibilities and wonderment that had simply not existed on this level -- Skyrim is arguably the most immersive, living breathing world for a single player narrative. When it hits that valley it changes the way you look at that game. It's a virtual world done better than anything before, to the point where the narrative structure no longer is necessary; you can play that damn game however you want.

I think that is what catapults it above and beyond SR:3, which is merely a tonal change for the series (or escalation rather) and refinement in writing and gameplay mechanics. It doesn't break any new ground suffice to say it would have won a Guinness record for insane writing for a video game.

SR winning would be far too political a choice, and it's obviously the "feel good"choice for representing this site and all it's about but I think that's as I said above, terribly political and even on the verge of advertising. It's like GB is endorsing that game at some point.

There was a reason for personal awards, and SR is part of the inclusion. There's the place for that. Choosing a game to reflect the reputation of the editorial staff, Saints Row would be the irresponsible choice.

GB can have it's fun, but that doesn't mean everything they do needs to reflect that.

We are so pathetic... waiting like hungry dogs. I love it.

I shall listen/have been listening to Late Registration, Liquid Swords, and my friend's mixtape until it get posted I guess.

I'm just happy that in the end Skyrim won. I was shouting til my lungs were sore at my speakers, encouraging Brad and Patrick on. (I even whooped when Ryan unexpectedly backed up Skyrim instead of SR3, considering how much he loved that game).

Skyrim just had more immersion in it. The games I love the most are games that make me feel like I am in the world, like I have a presence. I am not just controlling an avatar- I AM the avatar.

Patrick is the voice of reason the the Bombsquad! Rayman Origins is totally great. And Dark Souls! Two of my favorite games this year.

dam that shit got intense near the end

Skyrim or Saints Row at the top seems fine to me. My personal choice would have been Skyrim.

But Portal 2 is just plain better than Bastion.

I still don't understand the love for Bastion. Game was monotonous as hell.

And now Dark Souls!?! Nnnooooo! I feel like Skyrim is just as cryptic at "telling" you what to do as Dark Souls. Part of the fun is discovering the world and all the hidden mechanics. Calling Dark Souls a "bug report" and nominating Skyrim as GOTY is really, really lame.

Loved the podcast, even if I didn't always agree with the opinions. One thing I wanted to say, I have put over 60 hous into Skyrim and never noticed any issue of every dungeon boss being the same. I made a One Handed/Block. So I had no idea what Jeff was referring to... Anyone else have this same experience?

Classic Vinny brining up encumbrance in Skyrim. Love it.

Patrick brought down this list. Somehow he convinced the others his opinion was better. He might be a great debater but his opinions and mine differ.

Great discussion across all 5 days but I can't BELIEVE no one was willing to fight for Dark Souls.

Mind-sundering level design and the most elegant middle finger to the omnipresent and tired as hell quicksave/quickload/checkpoint system that other developers of action games wouldn't even dare to rethink make it my personal favorite for 2011.

I loooove when Patrick tells Jeff to chill, I laughed so hard. This staff is great :)

There's a Markarth guard that says "I used to be an adventurer like you until I took an arrow to the knee." Otherwise that game is great.

Frankly, reading these comments reminds me why I hate the internet. A lot of you are just jerks. You know, make whatever arguments you want about the games. That's cool. But it amazes me how quickly it turns into just bashing Ryan or Brad. At the end of the day they backed the game they felt should win.

You can go ahead and wonder why Ryan changed his mind, but he has the right to do so. Brad's arguments may have been all over the place, but IMO so were Vinnie and Jeff's arguments for SR3. These guys are having a heated discussion about games they love. You can't expect perfection out of them. This isn't a carefully organized debate. It's a heat of the moment, by the seat of your pants, argument. That's what makes it worth listening to if you ask me.

Hating on Brad for being passionate is stupid. At the end of the day attacking anyone on this podcast annoys me, because it shouldn't be about hate or attacking people, it should be talking about games.

Okay, off my soapbox now.

Can anyone tell me the name of the song used in the break before the top 10 starts? Thanks in advance!

I just really wished Brad listed off some of those amazing quests he's been doing, because I apparently missed all of them. At least 75% of the missions in Saints Row the Third are better than every single quest I ever came across in Skyrim. A whole lot of them are extremely fetch questy both in story and in gameplay and I don't see anything appealing about that.

*SPOILERS FOR SAINTS ROW THE THIRD*

The bank robbery, the skydiving, the Deckers Die mission, the wrestlemania mission, posing as the general in that giant air ship, eliminating the other wrestlers, Gangsters in Space all were amazing because they were imposible to predict and had you doing stuff you don't normally do. Skyrim's missions all seem pretty predictable and samey.

*END SPOILERS*

Spending time completing quests in Skyrim often don't come with much material awards and there are no items i know of I couldn't do without, Saints Row gives you rewards like they are candy.

Vinny and Jeff is right that encomberance and vendors in Skyrim are the worst, because there is literally nothing fun about messing around with your inventory like that. Looting a room of people you just killed takes forever because of this, when I see no reason they can't just streamline all of that somehow. In Saints Row they don't mess around with wasting your time on anything, best example being the jump into cars ability.

In Skyrim there aren't really a whole lot of choices that really seem to effect the world around you, or the rewards you get from what I've seen. In Saints Row there are at least some good choices about rewards and story.

In Skyrim the character creation isn't great, and doesn't really matter much since you almost never see the characters face either by the way of the camera or the ugly armor you put over him. He doesn't have much personality either apart from being nosey and agreeing to do everything. Even if you want to roleplay to make your own character not the lifeless shell he is you really can't since 90% of the missions don't have multiple ways to do things even if the mission itself isn't something your character would do. Saints Row as a fantastic character creator in both the character and the clothing. The 7 voices really helped solidifying that character as your own, even if the character is basically the same for everyone. And the writing for that character really gives him life.

Speaking of writing, is there one character in Skyrim that is deeper then a single character trait? It doesn't seem possible considering how every single character has 5 lines of dialog at most. Even the least outragous character of Pierce is more interesting then anyone I ever met in Skyrim.

I could go on about the fighting, the enemy AI, and the open world jank, but I think i made my point. Apart from some of the side missions in Saints Row which I chose not to do, I literally have nothing to complain about with saints row, but there is tons of things in Skyrim that I wish were done better.

Even still I'm ok with seeing Skyrim with GotY, but I don't like seeing it as GotY when the arguements for it are as simplistic or even flat out garbage as I saw in this podcast.

6 months were you couldn't play MK online at all where were you guys? Or where were you trying to play? I got MK at launch with Portal 2 and I could play online just fine.

MK and Uncharted 3 should have been on the list. But then again when one of you want to boot Batman Arkham City it's not too surprising I guess.

And it needs to be said, I haven't played Portal 1 and I play Portal 2 and Portal 2 is no where near as fantastic as you think if you don't have prior knowledge and I can't see how you guys rate that game so high. Yes it's polish, yes it's fun and has some good puzzle and story but it's just not THAT awesome.

Their attempts at humor in these GOTY podcasts is really really really bad...hard to listen to.

Also, a list without Dark Souls is not a true list.

I just finished listening to this today.

This format is AWESOME btw. I hope it makes a return next year, though I know it's probably stressful on the boys. Gives an opportunity for more awesome games to get shout out, makes for an engaging progression and creates some damned tense situations.

Going back and listening to this one... and MK getting shafted is still one of the bigger robberies, considering of how glowingly they talked about it, you can tell it was one of the most fun games they played. Also crazy seeing as they say the online being borked, hurt this one... as Skyrim was (and still is on some level) borked on the PS3.

Never forget MK 2011.

DAMN, that was some tense shit! Great work bomb squad!

Fucking Vinny giving up on Dark Souls that easy...

Dan Ryckert was influencing their goty discussion before he even joined giantbomb XD

Man, Brad is such an asshole arguing about his favorite games and then dismissing the games from the others. For me that listened to the podcast on the reverse order (2016 -> 15 -> 14...and now 11) at first I thought he was one of the coolest guys from the group. He is just obnoxious when he gets a game that he really wants.

Brad's argumentative/analytical skills were non-existent back then.

"What's so great and revolutionary about Skyrim?" "Errr they did it."