Quick Look: Dragon's Dogma

@Chadster said:

Fuck yes, Dark Tower talk. This quick look is automatically great.@stryker1121 said:

@UlquiorraSchiffer said:

Odetta was most certainly fucking not the good one, Patrick. But it's cool, lol, dark tower talk is always welcome.

Detta was the bad one, actually. Odetta was good but kind of weak. Then the two personalities merged into Susannah...i think. As for the DT series, it got very erratic toward the end, and lots changed after King's accident, obviously. But I liked the ending...the whole endgame bit was some of my favorite writing King's ever done in fact.

I thought the confrontations with the main villains were handled very poorly but the final final chapter was fucking awesome.

Again, I have to assume King scotched whatever plans he had for the story post accident, meaning re-writes and a very lame death for a certain well-loved King villain.

Too bad this didn't get more polish. Even without it, it looks okay..could've been something really special though.

@stryker1121 said:

@Chadster said:

Fuck yes, Dark Tower talk. This quick look is automatically great.@stryker1121 said:

@UlquiorraSchiffer said:

Odetta was most certainly fucking not the good one, Patrick. But it's cool, lol, dark tower talk is always welcome.

Detta was the bad one, actually. Odetta was good but kind of weak. Then the two personalities merged into Susannah...i think. As for the DT series, it got very erratic toward the end, and lots changed after King's accident, obviously. But I liked the ending...the whole endgame bit was some of my favorite writing King's ever done in fact.

I thought the confrontations with the main villains were handled very poorly but the final final chapter was fucking awesome.

Again, I have to assume King scotched whatever plans he had for the story post accident, meaning re-writes and a very lame death for a certain well-loved King villain.

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.

All the stuff after Jake's death was pretty much gold to me, besides perhaps the Dandelo chapter. Susannah's departure was devastating, while Patrick became a very interesting character in the end, and the Red King was kind of awesome in the short time we saw him. If King made a mistake toward the end, it was giving the Crimson King short shrift. Poor Roland..I know people didn't like the ending but that was the only way it could have gone. Dude was a relentless robot willing to step over most anyone to get to his Tower, and is doomed to be on a loop saving the thing again and again.

it was implied that it was the end of the loop though.

Man, that Sixfold Bolt looks awesome. Having played both the 360 and PS3 demos I can safely say that I do not want the 360 version. It had tearing and slowdown issues all over the place. The PS3 version also worked suboptimal at what I perceived as about 25-30 fps but was still a better experience.

Holy crap, late night quick look!

Super hyped for this game, it looks like it has a bit of jank but the combat and the world looks amazing.

OMG DAT JAP ROK! That's officially my personally theme song for the next couple days.

@Godzilla_Sushi said:

@gladspooky said:

That animation and combat looks amazing. Too bad gameplay's just not important nowadays.

It's amazing how that ogre monster head goes straight through the tree.

Nah, I've seen that in plenty of video games. Like all of them.

The camera in this game is really cool.

I don't understand Japan's thing with swords that end square as opposed to the traditional pointy,.

@gladspooky said:

@Godzilla_Sushi said:

@gladspooky said:

That animation and combat looks amazing. Too bad gameplay's just not important nowadays.

It's amazing how that ogre monster head goes straight through the tree.

Nah, I've seen that in plenty of video games. Like all of them.

Yeah, clipping issues is something that plagues pretty much every game out there. Skyrim was just as bad about it, so was Dark Souls. Who cares?

What I do care about are the animations though. This game has as much of an animation priority as Monster Hunter and Lost Planet. Once you start a special attack you have to see it through, no way to cancel it. That's a problem in my book and a classic Japanese design flaw. Of course you'll just have to deal with it and adapt your playstyle but I feel like that shouldn't be how this works nowadays, considering we've had 3D games since the late 90s.

Honestly, none of the "jank" I saw in this Quick Look really bothered me. Clipping and chatty cpu characters are things I've seen in plenty of games, the former in just about every game at least once or twice. I guess there could be a case on the world and setting not being particularly interesting, but I tend to feel that way about the high fantasy genre in general.

That said I would actually be willing to give Dragon's Dogma a try because: A- The combat looks like a ton of fun and B- I have had an itch for an action RPG but I have learned that it will be years till any developer makes one outside of the realm of fantasy. (And I don't mean a first/third person shooter with RPG mechanics and a lot of talking.)

That is why I felt sad when Jeff mentioned the idea of a Space Harrier RPG in one of the Bombcasts. It will never happen.

@HerbieBug said:

I don't understand Japan's thing with swords that end square as opposed to the traditional pointy,.

Executioner's swords were flat tipped since they were used exclusively for chopping off heads.

Of course you wouldn't run into combat with one of those.

Fast travel would ruin this game.

Some of those animations are pretty damn great. It gives the combat a real meaty look.

This actually looks really cool...

@TentPole said:

Fast travel would ruin this game.

This.

I really liked the demo, but lack of fast travel and having to fight respawning enemies does make it a lot less appealing.

@paulunga said:

This game has as much of an animation priority as Monster Hunter and Lost Planet. Once you start a special attack you have to see it through, no way to cancel it. That's a problem in my book and a classic Japanese design flaw. Of course you'll just have to deal with it and adapt your playstyle but I feel like that shouldn't be how this works nowadays, considering we've had 3D games since the late 90s.

Except it's not a flaw, but a design choice. It's what makes the combat in Lost Planet and Monster Hunter feel incredible once you've figured it all out.

I wouldn't say this choice is all that frequent in Japanese video game design, either. Japanese developers put out a ton of button mashy action games.

@Skanker said:

@paulunga said:

This game has as much of an animation priority as Monster Hunter and Lost Planet. Once you start a special attack you have to see it through, no way to cancel it. That's a problem in my book and a classic Japanese design flaw. Of course you'll just have to deal with it and adapt your playstyle but I feel like that shouldn't be how this works nowadays, considering we've had 3D games since the late 90s.

Except it's not a flaw, but a design choice. It's what makes the combat in Lost Planet and Monster Hunter feel incredible once you've figured it all out.

I wouldn't say this choice is all that frequent in Japanese video game design, either. Japanese developers put out a ton of button mashy action games.

Also Dark Soul/Demon's souls.

we didnt see any Dragons, i am disappointed.

@Skanker said:

@paulunga said:

This game has as much of an animation priority as Monster Hunter and Lost Planet. Once you start a special attack you have to see it through, no way to cancel it. That's a problem in my book and a classic Japanese design flaw. Of course you'll just have to deal with it and adapt your playstyle but I feel like that shouldn't be how this works nowadays, considering we've had 3D games since the late 90s.

Except it's not a flaw, but a design choice. It's what makes the combat in Lost Planet and Monster Hunter feel incredible once you've figured it all out.

I wouldn't say this choice is all that frequent in Japanese video game design, either. Japanese developers put out a ton of button mashy action games.

I fully agree. It makes for combat with somewhat of a learning curve, but it's so damn rewarding once it clicks.

And frankly, after having experienced combat mechanics like in Dark Souls, it's very hard to go back to games where button mashing is a viable strategy. I like some actual risk/reward in my battles.

@TentPole said:

Fast travel would ruin this game.

I agree. I played Skyrim with no fast travel for a 2nd character and it had a much different feel to it. This looks like it'd be too short with fast travel.

The combat seems sorta neat, but unless Patrick forgot to show that there are some sweeping story cutscenes that really flesh out major characters in the world, or suddenly there is a Metroid Prime amount of interesting environments and detail, the setting and world REALLY are not grabbing me at all.

Dark Souls didn't have much a story, but at least it had a cool aesthetic and ambiance.

All I can see is Dark Monster Soul Hunter

I have become too jaded

I kinda just want to get this so I can re-make the Fellowship of the Ring as my crew. It seems cool enough to get when it's $40 or below. Kinda tired of Patrick whining about the lack of loot here, Skyrim barely had any unique loot at all. I love that game, but having never played a Elder Scrolls game before then I was super dissapointed how un-unique the loot really was overall.

Good quick look, though I can't say I approve of all the running away!

So it's a game with terrible dialog and writing, an ugly world, bad u.i and awful music. Buuut at least the combats alright?

@paulunga said:

What I do care about are the animations though. This game has as much of an animation priority as Monster Hunter and Lost Planet. Once you start a special attack you have to see it through, no way to cancel it.

Patrick implied there was a skill you can get that lets you cancel out of animations with the roll, or something.

@DeathbyYeti said:

All I can see is Dark Monster Soul Hunter

I have become too jaded

It is not a matter of jadedness. It's a matter of the game looking exactly like that, and playing about as schizophrenic as the description would suggest.

I found it to be incredibly monotonous and grindy in an obnoxious way.

@gladspooky said:

That animation and combat looks amazing. Too bad gameplay's just not important nowadays.

I feel like it's the opposite.... the gameplay doesn't seem half bad, but the bland look, weird animations, and all that other graphic oddities.... strange.

@FoxMulder said:

@TentPole said:

Fast travel would ruin this game.

I agree. I played Skyrim with no fast travel for a 2nd character and it had a much different feel to it. This looks like it'd be too short with fast travel.

Fast travel has spoiled gamers. You have to actively choose not to use it. It's just become so easy to depend on it that apparently a game without it, that's seen as a negative now. I prefer when in-game you have to pay for some sort of transportation instead of this magic-go-everywhere-makes no logical sense in the game world option.

All I can say is that having Vinny on this has just made my morning!

Patrick vinny combo is pretty neat.

@EveretteScott said:

@FoxMulder said:

@TentPole said:

Fast travel would ruin this game.

I agree. I played Skyrim with no fast travel for a 2nd character and it had a much different feel to it. This looks like it'd be too short with fast travel.

Fast travel has spoiled gamers. You have to actively choose not to use it. It's just become so easy to depend on it that apparently a game without it, that's seen as a negative now. I prefer when in-game you have to pay for some sort of transportation instead of this magic-go-everywhere-makes no logical sense in the game world option.

We have a lot of things like this that spoil us, really, and break the logic of the game. Just thinking about the way we're starting to see games with a "trash" option for picking up items is kind of weird.

@Thor_Molecules said:

@Skanker said:

@paulunga said:

This game has as much of an animation priority as Monster Hunter and Lost Planet. Once you start a special attack you have to see it through, no way to cancel it. That's a problem in my book and a classic Japanese design flaw. Of course you'll just have to deal with it and adapt your playstyle but I feel like that shouldn't be how this works nowadays, considering we've had 3D games since the late 90s.

Except it's not a flaw, but a design choice. It's what makes the combat in Lost Planet and Monster Hunter feel incredible once you've figured it all out.

I wouldn't say this choice is all that frequent in Japanese video game design, either. Japanese developers put out a ton of button mashy action games.

I fully agree. It makes for combat with somewhat of a learning curve, but it's so damn rewarding once it clicks.

And frankly, after having experienced combat mechanics like in Dark Souls, it's very hard to go back to games where button mashing is a viable strategy. I like some actual risk/reward in my battles.

The problem with that is that it feels really unrealistic. As if you can't change your mind on performing a six hit combo midway through. Dark Souls did it way better since it's a hit-for-hit thing and you CAN actually cancel into a block early on in the animation. Of course that doesn't work midswing, that wouldn't make much sense.

I suppose I'm just not a fan of how Capcom does it, with this, Lost Planet, Monster Hunter and Dead Rising all feeling kind of awkward of course to differing degrees. I can totally get behind it when swinging a gigantic Greatsword in MH. An e-guitar in DR, not so much.

I have not been this interested in a QL in a long time, because I have no idea if I want to get this game. Part of me says yes; Part of me says no. Talk about this game has been all over the place.

I have never seen a Japanese game with a good UI. This is offensively bad.

@paulunga said:

Yeah, clipping issues is something that plagues pretty much every game out there. Skyrim was just as bad about it, so was Dark Souls. Who cares?

What I do care about are the animations though. This game has as much of an animation priority as Monster Hunter and Lost Planet. Once you start a special attack you have to see it through, no way to cancel it. That's a problem in my book and a classic Japanese design flaw. Of course you'll just have to deal with it and adapt your playstyle but I feel like that shouldn't be how this works nowadays, considering we've had 3D games since the late 90s.

I haven't played Lost Planet years and haven't touched Monster Hunter in a good while either, but I don't think this game leaves you vunerable for nearly as long as any of the attacks in Monster Hunter does, maybe that will depend on your class choice though.

For me this game, from what little I've experienced of it, fall into the very acceptable risk versus reward type of style that Dark Souls, the newer Devil May Cry's or the old school Castlevania occupy (though the latter could just be that I've played it long enough to know all the intricacies of the playstyle). So while I don't really have any love for the style that MH and LP represent, I certainly hope that these others will remain, for no other reason than I find them very satisfying. I think there's room for both, is what I'm saying.

>Dark Tower discussion

I love you people.

It's more than a little disappointing to hear him say that about the world. I'm a huge fan of lore in my RPGs, the sort who'd stop and read every book and letter in Morrowind or Skyrim, even seeking out books from stores and such about things I didn't know enough about yet.

Ah well, I'm about to start playing this for the first time. I'll give it a fair shake and see what turns up!

I'm curious why the world in this game is not worth exploring as Patrick stated a couple of times? What makes it any less interesting than Skyrim? It seems it has instanced events and dungeons just like Skyrim did. I suppose as a person who came out of Skyrim somewhat underwhelmed after the immediate fervor following it's release I just never understand how it's the High Note all open ended RPG's get compared to. I wish they went into more detail about what makes the world of Dragons Dogma so uninteresting, as from everything they said and showed it seemed to be just the opposite - it looked like there was tons of random events that instance as you traverse the world making it an exciting experience. As a side note: as excited as I was about Vinny sitting in on this, for such an RPG buff he seemed uncharacteristically not enthusiastic about this game at all.

Patrick sounds so serious next to Vinny, I dont know how cause his cheerfulness is so infective!

The combat animation when using a bow looks freaking awesome.

@Humanity:

Probably in large part because this game doesn't look open world at all, at least not in the same sense as Bethesda games. It seems to be set up more like Amalur without loading screens breaking up the outside segments. Look at that map, it's clearly made up of open areas funnelling into very linear segments tying it all together, especially noticeable when Patrick is running though the ravine. Vinny seems right at the beginning of the quicklook when he points out that most of that map is probably not filled with playable landmass.

Huh, this looks pretty awesome.

Kinda weird that Patrick seems to compare every RPG to Skyrim.

I love how Vinny appreciates good music cue action.

@Arkanti: I've only read about the game and haven't played it but from everything I read I got the impression it's pretty open. I've also never appreciated the whole open world aspect especially in Bethesda games, where essentially there is nothing to do except find cave openings and traverse those. To each his own I guess, I'm listening to the Bombcast now and maybe he'll go more indepth about it.

I don't know what Patrick's talking about. This seems waaaaay more interesting than Skyrim. I always thought the Elder Scrolls universe was one of the most generic fantasy worlds ever. At least this has some awesome mechanics to go along with it. Traveling the lands slaying dudes with your created best bud sounds awesome.

@Humanity said:

I'm curious why the world in this game is not worth exploring as Patrick stated a couple of times? What makes it any less interesting than Skyrim? It seems it has instanced events and dungeons just like Skyrim did.

Jeff said the same thing about Reckoning, and to me that was the best part about it. I don't know why Reckoning receives so much flak for having a boring and generic world. The quests are most certainly boring but not the world.

@Humanity said:

@Arkanti: I've only read about the game and haven't played it but from everything I read I got the impression it's pretty open. I've also never appreciated the whole open world aspect especially in Bethesda games, where essentially there is nothing to do except find cave openings and traverse those. To each his own I guess, I'm listening to the Bombcast now and maybe he'll go more indepth about it.

Some people are just natural born explorers, that's humans in general really, but it translates to games as well. The thing that made Skyrim truly special was that Bethesda knocked it out the fucking park. Compared to Oblivion specifically, Skyrim actually had a distinguished look and feel, it had achieved the concept of 'harsh beauty' perfectly. The terrain was extremely well done; the drops, the mountains, the flowing water, all utterly convincing. I remember one review saying "Skyrim isn't just a postcard generator".

Now Dragon's Dogma is an interesting one, because I get why people say it looks bland but to me that's actually kind of cool, It looks realistic to me. It also looks a little grungy and muddy from a graphical standpoint too, but whatevs on that. The only thing that concerns me is the whole enemy encounters thing, so many RPG's have that problem, seeing the same group of enemies in the same spot over and over. No good!