what a dick

@Scotto said:

The part that amuses me about these cases, is just how quickly, based on partial information at best, people will firmly take sides.

The story for me here is just the bizarre move of a CEO going into an internet forum to defend himself at length about a pending court case, instead of clamming up at the advice of lawyers. The rest will just come out in court, after being adjudicated by people with far more intimate knowledge of the facts than any of us.

Right there with ya.

Why don't we just wait and see what happens instead of just claiming the guy is a scumbag or the girl is a deranged psycho.

We don't know them personally and none of us are in a position to judge them. Trial by internet is just as bad as a trial by media with unfounded assumptions and accusations.

Hard to know what to think in cases like these, but it certainly sounds like there's fault on both sides. I'm inclined to think the guy is a douche bag because he likes Family Guy. Not that I think trying to stifle the humor in a work environment is such a good thing either. Wish there were more details about the initial incident. Touching hair doesn't necessarily sound like sexual harassment to me.

@Sin4profit: I don't know anything about this case specifically, seeing as how I didn't know about any of this today. But from what I understand (with my total of zero education in law, of course!) you can sort of sue for any hostile work environment, particularly if the hostility stems from discrimination, religion, disability, sexual, race, etc. etc.

But I guess the bigger question is, would you WIN the case? I would imagine one would have to put together very specific scenarios and timestamps regarding the incidents at hand.

Again, ZERO law education over here. I'm just going by what I read on the signs at work.

He touched her HAIR?!?!

@Sin4profit: there's a difference between thinking a brand of humor is stupid and it being offensive to you though. I really don't think the WM guys were telling the type of jokes wardell was to the women of the office.

@Sin4profit said:

@MattyFTM said:

@wrecks said:

These choice quotes from his response show the kinda man he really is:

#3, however is not acceptable to me. I am an inappropriate, sexist, vulgar and embarrassing person and I'm not inclined to change my behavior. If this is a problem, you need to find another job.

#4, Again, I am not willing to adapt my behavior to suit others. If you find my behavior problematic, I recommend finding another job.

Yeah, those were the key bits that stand out for me. You could argue that he was possibly being sarcastic with the whole "I am an inappropriate, sexist, vulgar and embarrassing person" part, but when you end a statement with "you need to find another job.", it 's clearly not the time for sarcasm.

I dissagree, that would suggest any woman who worked for Whiskey Media could sue because they didn't like their brand of humor. "if you're not comfortable in that environment, look for a new environment", that's how that reads to me.

Either way, as with all cases like this it requires we make assumptions based on what we want to believe through our social conditioning. I've known enough necrotic and manipulative women in my time to not make these cases so black and white.

I think you're missing my point. My point was that saying "I am an inappropriate, sexist, vulgar and embarrassing person" in response to a serious email about the working environment is shitty. He could have responded with a sincere email about how the working environment is part of the company, explained some of his behaviour that she considered to be sexist or vulgar and why it is a key part of the company and why it fosters creativity an such. He could have apologised that she didn't feel she fit into that environment, but suggested that if she wasn't happy the best solution would be for her to find another job where she would be happy. He didn't do that. He's either being sarcastic about a clearly serious situation, or he's just in general being an asshole. Neither of those responses are the right way to go about it.

Going back to your example of Whiskey Media, if any Whiskey employee had ever raised issues with the working environment, I'm sure all people involved would have taken it seriously and dealt with it sensitively. No one would have boasted about how they are sexist or vulgar and how they're never going to change. It may have ultimately resulted in the conclusion that the person in question simply didn't fit in and should move on, but no one would have been an asshole about it.

Does he have any evidence that she tampered with company materials or whatnot?

Finally a good excuse to watch the South Park episode with the Sexual Harassment Panda again.

I'd almost argue that his personal post on that forum was better than the official statement from the company. The company's statement seems very vindictive and not very well worded. If they wanted to sound big and tough as a company, they certainly came off as a bully instead.

"That she would choose to try to fight this in the court of public opinion versus the court of law only further demonstrates the frivolity of her case."

That just makes them sound bad. It also makes them sound like they're angry that they couldn't get it dismissed which seems like the case might have some legitimacy.

Well that just got awkward

don't be so quick to assume guilt on either side just because of the accusations

although the quote, if accurate, "I'm not some manager or coworker of yours,” he said. “I own the company. It, and your job there, exist to suit my purposes, not vice versa."

That reads to me as, "I OWN YOU BITCH!~". So yeah fuck him and his company. Employment is a two-way contract between equals. He's about to learn that in court.

So reading the legal documents it seems she had to drop atleast the majority of her allegations due to witness recanting statements. At this point until I hear another Stardock employee, former or current, cooroberrate her story in some way or fashion, I will refrain from jumping on the Wardell hate train (which is overloaded as it is) without further details coming to light.

@lafigueroa: Same here.

They both sound like assholes, the only real difference I see here is that he is being straight up about it; while she put up with his antics for 2 years working there just to build a case. Not really a good excuse for his bad behavior, but I can't help but think she's blown it way out of proportion to suit her needs.

@Animasta: I'm not sure I get how this proves her point but I certainly don't assume Wardell's right in this. I was merely taken by surprise about how sudden these bits of rumors, online interactions and fragmental details about court proceedings seemed to explode into (yet another) somewhat tendentious, pointless gender discussion. It's not surprising in the grand scheme of videogame coverage but I'm usually used to a little bit more from this particular site. Like I said, I'd love to know the facts right now but I've got a gut feeling it'll take a while until this one's being sorted out completely.

From that thread (bold and underline added by me):

And if it wasn't clear before, I do not think I'm a sexist, vulgar, or inappropriate person. I was using the words she used in her email to try to drive home the point that she doesn't get to decide how other people (like me) behave when not in her presence. If someone says something she doesn't like, then she has every right to ask them not to say it. If they continue to (or something similar) that would be harassment. But they don't, imo, have the right to say what other people talk about when not in her presence.

This is an interesting point. I'm not clear as to whether the lawsuit is filed directly at him or the company and the work environment in general.

Edit: Also, if she really did delete all that stuff that close to launch then fuck her. That's a shit move.

You know, I go to pubs after work with my co-workers and we're having a great time, so far noone is complaining that I'm sexually harassing them, and we touch a lot more then just hair. Just today I picked a female coworker by hips really close to her butt, actually my thumbs were on her butt to lift her up and move her away from my darts zone.

Once we even played fucking Twister, drunk as monkey and there was someone touching my balls with one of his/her body parts whilst I could be breast fed I was so close to a tit.

I guess I should be in prison long ago, but then again, I don't understand what having a fun time in a pub after work has to do with sexual harassment at work. It's your sole decision to go hang with your co-workers or develop a friendship with them and I don't know, but having a friendship without ever touching a person is not going to happen.

@Baal_Sagoth: oh come on, this is about as bad as that fighting game thing. fine, you don't like having arguments about gender politics, but I don't see how this story is any less or more relevant than Jeff's story yesterday (and yes I am aware it was a joke)

Sounds like Wardell either reacted poorly to her email, or is a sexist asshole. Either or.

And it sounds like Miseta is a petty, vindictive person for wiping out a ton of assets before she up and quit.

So I guess I hope they both get what's coming to them? Situations like this are impossible to judge from the outside.

Court of public opinion is in session. Judge Fuck That Guy No Fuck Her Wait Fuck Them Both presiding.

@Olivaw said:

Situations like this are impossible to judge from the outside.

It would be really interesting to hear from other Stardock employees or ex-employees that were around at the time.

@Brodehouse said:

Court of public opinion is in session. Judge Fuck That Guy No Fuck Her Wait Fuck Them Both presiding.

to be fair it does sound like wardell wanted to fuck her

@Dick_Mohawk said:

Why don't we just wait and see what happens instead of just claiming the guy is a scumbag or the girl is a deranged psycho.

We don't know them personally and none of us are in a position to judge them. Trial by internet is just as bad as a trial by media with unfounded assumptions and accusations.

By trying to paint her as a villain on public forums Stardock has invited us, the internet masses, to sit in judgement. Obviously their company is run by idiots because no professional company would be stupid enough to engage in such public nonsense about a pending lawsuit. Was their lawyer on vacation at the time?

Guy seems like a douche but......

"culminating at a May 2010 dinner where Wardell reportedly touched her hair."

Oh come the fuck on.

@Animasta: I've only read the story but there's nothing there that suggests that other than the fact that he's a man. The accompanying quotes (vulgar, inappropriate, sexist) make the situation seem like it has more to do with attitudes than outright sexual advances. But I don't have all the information. Neither do you, so maybe you should ease off for once.

@Gahzoo said:

Guy seems like a douche but......

"culminating at a May 2010 dinner where Wardell reportedly touched her hair."

Oh come the fuck on.

you do realize how close you have to be to someone to touch their hair, correct?

I read the documents, and while I have not been in the trials, The Woman's documents support her claims of sexual advances, and harassment when asked to stop. And even the Guys documents are kinda creepy, they include photos of the girl, him talking about the looks of potential secretaries, and legal documents where he guesses women's breast size.

pg. 245

pg. 254

pg. 263

@Veiasma said:

Here comes the inevitable wave of people jumping to conclusions without all the facts because the plaintiff is a woman.

Yeah, that's pretty much how it usually goes.

That said, I don't feel like I even have much of a sense of the full story from reading this article.

Not surprising a workplace environment full of constant references to robot chicken/family guy jokes would get into a sexual harassment tiff. Both shows casually make racist, homophobic, and sexist jokes. Now guess what sort of people that tends to attract!!

Is it normal that I have only just now heard of the "Quarter to Three" forums. We didn't know Quarter to Three/their forums were a thing before all of this, right?

@jorojoserojas: It sounds like it was a witnessed event so her case should be pretty cut and dry in that regard. I was more referring to the knee jerk reaction to pick a side anytime someone accuses someone of sexual harassment. This coming from someone who was accused of sexual harassment by an overly jealous husband.

@Animasta: not thinking is one thing, not knowing is another.

@MattyFTM: Shitty, maybe, but it coincides with his perspective of what his business environment is, "we make dumb jokes and laugh it off". The, "I am an inappropriate, sexist, vulgar and embarrassing person" was a direct response to her, "3. Please be careful with your "jokes" which are at many times inappropriate, sexist, vulgar and very embarrassing not only to me, but everyone present." He was not "boasting" he was "referencing", and this again goes back to the, "this is the environment that i've created for my business".

The "should have" argument never flies with me unless he's had to go through this with several employees. hindsight is 20/20 and if he's never had to deal with this before he just chose to do it as he naturally would. i read his reply as "blunt" and not "sarcastic. Not saying a blunt approach is appropriate i'm saying the blunt unapologetic nature is what we've come to enjoy from Giant Bomb as it creates the illusion of "honesty above all else". I think he has the right to run his business that way and what you're suggesting is that he forgo that right to explain that he believes in that right.

Sexism? In the games industry!?

Wardell's scum, and this just further cements that Stardock is being run by a reactionary manchild.

@Animasta said:

@Gahzoo said:

Guy seems like a douche but......

"culminating at a May 2010 dinner where Wardell reportedly touched her hair."

Oh come the fuck on.

you do realize how close you have to be to someone to touch their hair, correct?

What? I burst out laughing when I read this.

Im not saying sexual harassement is ok, none of us know what happened in that pub that night. Alot of dudes jumping on Wardell. But if standing close enough to people to touch their hair is inappropriate then I would get sued all the time!

Stardock you guys used to be cool, what happened???

Oh and that guys a fucking moron for putting that shite in an e-mail

@Nentisys said:

@Animasta said:

@Gahzoo said:

Guy seems like a douche but......

"culminating at a May 2010 dinner where Wardell reportedly touched her hair."

Oh come the fuck on.

you do realize how close you have to be to someone to touch their hair, correct?

What? I burst out laughing when I read this.

Im not saying sexual harassement is ok, none of us know what happened in that pub that night. Alot of dudes jumping on Wardell. But if standing close enough to people to touch their hair is inappropriate then I would get sued all the time!

I'm just saying that laughing off her hair touching complaint is disingenuous; I don't think she'd have mentioned it if he merely touched her hair by accident or anything

@Animasta said:

@Nentisys said:

@Animasta said:

@Gahzoo said:

Guy seems like a douche but......

"culminating at a May 2010 dinner where Wardell reportedly touched her hair."

Oh come the fuck on.

you do realize how close you have to be to someone to touch their hair, correct?

What? I burst out laughing when I read this.

Im not saying sexual harassement is ok, none of us know what happened in that pub that night. Alot of dudes jumping on Wardell. But if standing close enough to people to touch their hair is inappropriate then I would get sued all the time!

I'm just saying that laughing off her hair touching complaint is disingenuous; I don't think she'd have mentioned it if he merely touched her hair by accident or anything

OK, that makes more sense.

So, a bunch of MRA duders don't know what "culminate" means? Cool.

@MEATBALL said:

Is it normal that I have only just now heard of the "Quarter to Three" forums. We didn't know Quarter to Three/their forums were a thing before all of this, right?

I surely didn't.

Considering their alleged previous interactions it sounds reasonable that touching her hair would be really concerning.

here's the test if you wanna check it out, it's real nice and totally not harassment at all http://www.armory.com/tests/100.html

and this is legalese for "she was asking for it"

@Kidavenger: a friendly joke includes asking how pure you are? you must find rape jokes hilarious then

Sometimes I worry that I'm a terrible person (like when I don't find ICO to be sexist), but then I read comments like Kidavenger's, feel disgusted and find that worry subsiding.

Ugh, why is this being reported on? Like really, I don't see the newsworthy worth of this being reported on on a site like this. This is TMZ level gossip.

I'd rather have mroe lamenting about Triple H cutting his hair or REAL articles like the excellent Walking Dead articles you just posted. This just seems like another grab for clicks in reporting about something sexist which is barely relevant to the site's purpose.

Wardell is stuck in a hole. He should stop digging,

@Baal_Sagoth: Good job sir.

@TeflonBilly said:

Ugh, why is this being reported on? Like really, I don't see the newsworthy worth of this being reported on on a site like this. This is TMZ level gossip.

I'd rather have mroe lamenting about Triple H cutting his hair or REAL articles like the excellent Walking Dead articles you just posted. This just seems like another grab for clicks in reporting about something sexist which is barely relevant to the site's purpose.

I think Patrick just likes reporting on legal stuff, not out of a desire to get as many clicks as he can, but because he finds it interesting. Still kind of an irrelevant article though, just a reason for everyone to argue about sexism again.

I love how everybody automatically victim blames Wardell. "HE WAS ASKING FOR IT!"

It's a pending case douchebags!

@VinLieger said:

Stardock you guys used to be cool, what happened???

Oh and that guys a fucking moron for putting that shite in an e-mail

Nothing. They were always like this, we just never knew.

@Kidavenger said:

@Animasta said:

here's the test if you wanna check it out, it's real nice and totally not harassment at all http://www.armory.com/tests/100.html

Ya, that totally looks like he made her take it, not a friendly joke at all.

It must have been terrible getting that in December 2008 and having to work there another 18 months, what a trooper she was...

She making a mockery of women who have real problems.

Way to be a scumbag. I'm not really sure what else to say other than that you may want to check out the MRA subreddit to find other oppressed men to confide in.