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    Street Fighter IV

    Game » consists of 9 releases. Released Jul 18, 2008

    After nearly a decade in hiatus, Capcom's signature mainline fighting game series resurfaces with its fourth main installment, combining the traditional 2D gameplay with modern fully-3D graphics.

    Critique Me Please! Me vs. a good Cammy/Bison

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    Stang

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    #1  Edited By Stang

     Last night I had a pretty intense set against a guy named Sp4nish H1tman, he play a very solid Cammy, Bison and Rog. Final score was 18-6 in my favor, but at no point did I ever feel comfortable. His Cammy pressure is amazing, I would really like some feedback on how to handle this matchup. 
     
    Here is the first game, his pressure is amazing. He whooped my ass real good this game. Without mashing, what can I do?  
     

      
    Another vs Cammy  
      
    Yet another Vs his Cammy
     
      
    And finally against his Bison
     
     
     The only time I felt comfortable was against his Bison, I feel that is one of my stronger match ups. I would be really appreciatve if you guys could pick a part my game and provide some insight on how I can better handle these match ups. He had me sweating far more then I like!

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    Symphony

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    #2  Edited By Symphony

    The solution is simple - Ragequit.

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    napalm

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    #3  Edited By napalm

    Fuck you, Stang! You beat every fucker on this goddamn forum and now you want more help! I refuse!
     
    Also, yes @ Symphony's response.

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    Stang

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    #4  Edited By Stang
    @Symphony: I was about to rage quit after he shit all over me the first game!
     
    @Napalm: Oh, come on. Help me damnit!!
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    AURON570

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    #5  Edited By AURON570

    It must be great listening to a guy saying he can't beat you, over and over again >.> At first I thought the guy talking was Stang. Good matches.

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    emkeighcameron

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    #6  Edited By emkeighcameron

    I don't know shit about SF4 so I can't offer any tips, but why are you even asking for advice if you won 18-6? That's a 3x lead, dude, it seems like you did just fine.

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    Stang

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    #7  Edited By Stang
    @AURON570: Haha, yeah it is interesting listening to the guy from the other side. Atleast he wasn't calling me a stupid dirty whore or calling me a flowchart scrub! 
     
    @emkeighcameron: Why wouldn't I ask for advice? I don't care if I won 235-8, I am trying to improve. You can tell I am flustered solely by the amount of wake up lp srk's I throw. I have no idea how to approach him when he wake's up when he uses Cammy, I either eat a cannon spike or get blocked and do a block string. Just because I won does not mean I know what I was doing.
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    EvilTwin

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    #8  Edited By EvilTwin

    Well, on the plus side, it sounds like you had him even more flustered than he had you.

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    Scooper

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    #9  Edited By Scooper

    If a Cammy does alot of spiral arrows, I have a good chance to do damage. If they use mainly cannon spikes and that cross screen demonflip thing, I am screwed.
    Cannon spike is so safe on block it's not funny, there's very little you can do.

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    napalm

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    #10  Edited By napalm
    @Stang said:
    @emkeighcameron: " Why wouldn't I ask for advice? I don't care if I won 235-8, I am trying to improve. "
    "I beat Flushes 31 - 2! Help me improve against Abel players!!"
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    SpecialBuddy

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    #11  Edited By SpecialBuddy

    I say you just stop playing all together.

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    VashTS

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    #12  Edited By VashTS

    One of cammy's biggest weaknesses.....the focus attack.
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    Stang

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    #13  Edited By Stang
    @Napalm: He had it coming to him. I didn't beat Abel....I beat Flushes. Shit, I imagined Flushes' mug onscreen!
     
    @SpecialBuddy: I will. When SSFIV comes out.
     
    @VashTS: A legitimate tip! For whatever reason, I don't use focus attacks...nearly ever. The only time I use them is to cancel dragon punches into ultras. I really should start incorporating them into my game. Thanks.
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    newmarcom

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    #14  Edited By newmarcom
    @Stang: From these videos, I can see you are relying very heavily on jump-ins and cross-ups. Cammy has much better anti-air options than Dictator, which is probably why you felt more comfortable. You might want to work on your ground game. Cammy is out poking you and punishing your predictable cross-up mk. I'm not too familiar with Ken's range so I can't say anything specific.
     
    As for your Dictator match, you are way too reckless. I hope the jump-in air hurricane kick into ultra was you just being silly. I don't see that ever working in any situation. The Dictator seems to love throwing Psycho Crushers but you don't seem to be consistently punishing it.
     
    To sum up: practice your Ken pokes. Just walk up instead of jumping to close the distance. Try using the d+mk and f+mk to fish out your opponents. Or if you're feeling really cheeky, FADC forward and throw jab/short block strings. As for your wake-up game, instead of cross-up mk, try to time a ground hurricane kick so that you hit them in the back of the head. They won't know which way to block and you get a free combo.
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    Stang

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    #15  Edited By Stang
    @newmarcom: Thanks for the critque, don't agree with some of it but it is appreciated none the less.
     
    I had to cross him up on wake up because I would eat cannon spike's if I hit him in front. He was not auto correcting on cross ups, so it was my only option. Are you saying I should let him stand up for free? Not going to happen. 
     
    Reckless against Bison? Huh? How was the ex tatsu to ultra silly? I do it all the time. It only missed because of the funky focus. I don't recall ever trying it on a person while they are focusing, so lesson learned.
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    lordofultima

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    #16  Edited By lordofultima

    TELEPORT OUT. Oh wait..nevermind.

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    napalm

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    #17  Edited By napalm

    I do agree with this Latino Hitman and Italian Spunkmaster or whateverthefuck his name is about Ken having ambiguous-looking jump-ins/crossups. When Ken jumps and goes for an attack, with where he his body his angling, and where his attack looks like it might hit, makes it very hard sometimes to figure out which way the attack will hit. On more than a couple of occasions, you got a freebie because I was blocking as if the attack was going to hit crossup, but actually hit in front and I didn't have time to recover.
     
    I've noticed this issue with Akuma's Dive Kick. It essentially looks ambiguous as hell and it's hard as fuck to judge where it's going to land.

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    Stang

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    #18  Edited By Stang
    @newmarcom: Here is another vs his Bison.
     
     
      
    Those random dp's aren't me being reckless. Simply trying to bait him, sometimes I take a hit because of it. Thus is life.
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    SpecialBuddy

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    #19  Edited By SpecialBuddy
    @Stang said:
       Those random dp's aren't me being reckless. Simply trying to bait him, sometimes I take a hit because of it. Thus is life. "
    You know offline that doesn't work at all. All DPs are punishable.
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    JJOR64

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    #20  Edited By JJOR64

    Turtle.  Make Cammy come to you. That's what I do.

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    Stang

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    #21  Edited By Stang
    @SpecialBuddy: They are punishable online also. Just watch the the last since I know you haven't! Online to offline does not magically make this a different game. If I do a lp srk jumping distance away from in an attempt to bait him and he does not punish, you are saying he is somehow going to punish the exact same scenario offline? Last time I checked playing offline did not improve your ability.
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    AniMoney

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    #22  Edited By AniMoney

    I don't really know why you're asking us for tips when we're all worse than you but... 
     
    I feel like you could punish blocked spiral arrows with something marginally better than a shoryu, like low strong into shoryu or low fierce into shoryu. Idk, hit up training mode and see what works? Also you used step kick to punish blocked cannon spikes? I'm sure you know better than me, but is that the only thing you can use to punish? What about a tatsu, or walk up sweep? Again IDK so maybe step kick is really the best choice. And I didn't see many kara throws, but he was good at teching for the most part and he did a lot of cannon spikes on wakeup so I don't blame you for not taking the risk.  
     
    What's the option select you're using for the shoryu's when they focus your jump in? The dude kept complaining about it cause I guess he didn't know, but then again neither do I. Link me to where you learned it.    

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    ArbitraryWater

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    #23  Edited By ArbitraryWater
    @Symphony said:
    " The solution is simple - Ragequit. "
    This.
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    Frederik

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    #24  Edited By Frederik

    Someone owes a penny in the swear jar!

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    Gambit

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    #25  Edited By Gambit
    @AniMoney: when fighting cammys online alot of the times if I go for anything other then a quick punish I'll eat a cannon spike to the face. stang may have been having that problem with this dude and decided to go for quick and easy punishes.
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    SpecialBuddy

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    #26  Edited By SpecialBuddy
    @Stang said:
    " @SpecialBuddy: They are punishable online also. Just watch the the last since I know you haven't! Online to offline does not magically make this a different game. If I do a lp srk jumping distance away from in an attempt to bait him and he does not punish, you are saying he is somehow going to punish the exact same scenario offline? Last time I checked playing offline did not improve your ability. "
    Whateva man! Evo 2K10! Its going down!
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    newmarcom

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    #27  Edited By newmarcom
    @Stang: 
    About the cross-up on Cammy, I wouldn't say not do it. Just don't do it so often. Having to cross-up as a wake-up against Cammy shouldn't be your only option. When your opponent is down, just dash up to their face and do a jab/short poke string. Or better yet, do nothing and bait them to cannon spike. Even crazier, dash up, FADC back at the last second, and punish.
     
    As for the air tatsu into ultra, maybe that stuff works online. I'm not sure since I don't play online so often. But if it was me, I'd just block everything until the end. I just think an air tatsu is a poor choice for a hit confirm.
     
    I would consider random dp as reckless because you DO get hit because of it. I admit that in the second Dictator fight you are in better control of the situation. You are maintaining a good keep-away game. But you're first Dictator fight was too high risk.
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    yetiantics

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    #28  Edited By yetiantics

    Defense. if you block a spiral arrow, obviously you have a serious time window to do some major damage. After your tatsu, block. Cammy has incredible wake up. 
    Either than that, you had it pretty made. 
    Basically defense and mixups.
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    OwnlyUzinWonHan

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    #29  Edited By OwnlyUzinWonHan

    I noticed that you aren't destroying him when he focus attacks your regular jump-in, which is something I'm not used to seeing at all.

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    napalm

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    #30  Edited By napalm
    @OwnlyUzinWonHan said:
    " I noticed that you aren't destroying him when he focus attacks your regular jump-in, which is something I'm not used to seeing at all. "
    I don't even know how to punish those. Sometimes if they let off a second later I can use a string of light attacks to stop it, or throw them. But if they let it off right when I'm about to connect, there's no way in hell I can punish it.
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    Stang

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    #31  Edited By Stang
    @AniMoney: The problem is sometimes a strong will pop her up and the srk will whiff. I will take the easy damage, typically I have meter so an ex srk works well. Blocked spikes make her fly to far away, I could tatsu and get a hit or two, but I would rather step kick, get a little damage and then be in the range where I have a little control. I dont kara throw much, he knew my tick patterns, kara would not have changed anything. Option select when I jump in and he focuses? I just hit forward down down forward fierce as fast as I can!
     
    @newmarcom: Thanks for the tips. Ex tatsu to ultra works regardless if you play online or not. It is risky as hell, I know. To be good with Ken you have to be risky, nothing comes easy with him while playing competent people. 
     
    @OwnlyUzinWonHan: More often then not I got through his focus. He has really good timing....and I hate it.
     
    @Gambit: Exactly! Those things come out so quick it is ridiculous. 
     
    @SpecialBuddy: No doubt. First to 250.
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    Neon941

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    #32  Edited By Neon941

    That guy's got a beast of a Cammy, puts my own to shame I'm afraid. His Bison is indeed pretty weak, looks like he's not had much experience. Your game's strong Stang, I'm not sure why you feel you need tips, you clearly owned the guy.

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    lordofultima

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    #33  Edited By lordofultima
    @Napalm said:
    " @OwnlyUzinWonHan said:
    " I noticed that you aren't destroying him when he focus attacks your regular jump-in, which is something I'm not used to seeing at all. "
    I don't even know how to punish those. Sometimes if they let off a second later I can use a string of light attacks to stop it, or throw them. But if they let it off right when I'm about to connect, there's no way in hell I can punish it. "
    Shoto can uppercut no matter what, I don't understand it either as I never see it coming, but everyone else does it like it's no big thing.
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    Stang

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    #34  Edited By Stang
    @Neon941: His Bison is not bad at all, it is just...well Bison. For some reason I don't have much trouble with that match up, probably because it is a million times more common then Cammy. Cammy may as well be Fuerte, I just don't see many. 
     
    I need tips because I am still not good enough. I want to be tournament level. Talk all the shit you guys want, laugh it up, but that is my goal. I know I need more real life game time for that to ever happen, but I can still work to get better everyday. My execution is getting to be pretty good, I understand match ups, but I still do a lot of stupid shit. A LOT OF STUPID SHIT. I have blinders on watching myself, it is always nice to hear how much you suck from somebody else.
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    Neon941

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    #35  Edited By Neon941
    @Stang: Hey man just think, that guy said you were one of the best Kens he's ever seen. Perhaps you're considerably better than you give yourself credit for and I see you participating in bunches of tournaments, that for me says tournament level, even if it's still a low tournament level. It's always best to think, even the greats lose matches and even they make mistakes.
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    Gambit

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    #36  Edited By Gambit
    @Stang: Your better at this game then me so not sure what tips I could really give you that would be of much use. I like to cross up a good bit to im sure you know that but I try to mix it up also. Sometimes I'll empty jump and block, throw, or overhead to keep them thinking. Also if they have a mic plugged in ill play porn through mine to throw them off there game.
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    Stang

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    #37  Edited By Stang
    @Neon941: Thanks for the confidence boost :) But like in this vid, around :43....shit like that needs to stop. That is solely my fault, and will make me lose a lot if I keep doing it. Love his reaction to my fadc full ultra 30 seconds later though!!
     
     
      
    @Gambit: You and Hedgehog were the ones that got me on the right track! You use to beast the shit out of me, so did Hedgehog. 450 game hours later the tables have turned :)
     
    Thanks for the porn tip man. I will keep that one handy.
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    SpecialBuddy

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    #38  Edited By SpecialBuddy
    @Stang: Stang ill beat you in a first to ten, but not with Gen cause that would be too easy. I'm thinking a certain wrestler will do the trick. That'll prove you don't have a dominance over the forums. :P
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    demontium

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    #39  Edited By demontium
    @Stang: Ah so you play ken....
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    Scooper

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    #40  Edited By Scooper
    @SpecialBuddy said:
    " @Stang: Stang ill beat you in a first to ten, but not with Gen cause that would be too easy. I'm thinking a certain wrestler will do the trick. That'll prove you don't have a dominance over the forums. :P "
    I pissed Stang off when we first played before he really joined the forums much with Zangief. It was funny.
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    Stang

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    #41  Edited By Stang
    @SpecialBuddy: Bring it son!
     
    @demontium: Did you really just only figure that out now? Really?
     
    @Scooper: Haha, yeah. I just hate losing to lariat spamming Gief's. It is more the fact that I let that shit beat me then anything else. So fucking frustrating to play good an entire round, just to lose 60% of your health and then lose because of the smallest of mistakes.
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    demontium

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    #42  Edited By demontium
    @Stang: I bet you don't know who I play. 
     
    Anyways. Cammy, use focus attacks and play defensive. 
     
    Bison, use focus attacks and be defensive- 
     
    oh.... I have the same strat for every character.
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    Stang

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    #43  Edited By Stang
    @demontium: It don't matter who you play! If it is any popular character, Im good. If you main Fuerte or Blanka....pretty good chance I am screwed.
     
    I have the same strategy for everybody as well. Jump, mash, win. Works about 70% of the time.
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    Gunner_Thor

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    #44  Edited By Gunner_Thor

    This guy seemed to have his links down a bit, but he kept jumping in waaaaay too much against a shoto, which was probably the reason for the abundance of srks in the first .    
    Ken is a rush down character, he's strongest when he's in a person's face, the only Kens that ever give my Vega problems understand this and dont let up.  Also, work in some kara throws in your game, it'll help a lot with the mixups.  I see you jumping in with the cross up attempts a lot too, that SHOULD get you wrecked vs Cammy, but he really wasnt reacting to it.  She just wasnt AAing you as much as she shouldve.   Lastly, against a move happy opponent like this, I'd say hold a few punches and let the moves whiff and punish the hell out of them. 
     
    I'm going to add you on live, it'll be nice to fight a good Ken for a change.

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    Stang

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    #45  Edited By Stang
    @Gunner_Thor: Thanks for the tips. Again, I don't know what to do when Cammy wakes up. If i jump on top of her, I will eat a cannon spike. Cross ups were not getting me hit, but for the most part they were blocked, so call it a draw. What can I do to put pressure on her?
     
    And I added you like 5 days ago! GT is Da Stang.
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    Gunner_Thor

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    #46  Edited By Gunner_Thor

    @Stang:  
    Don't jump in at Cammy.  You need to respect her AA just like she shouldve feared yours, plus her's is pretty quick.  You'll have to work in more footsies against her, Ken's fwd. medium kick is great because you can hit the opponent out of moves that way.   
     
    I didnt know you added me, I'm usually on after 9

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    Stang

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    #47  Edited By Stang
    @Gunner_Thor: 9 what? Im on the west coast.
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    Gunner_Thor

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    #48  Edited By Gunner_Thor
    @Stang:
    so am I, San Diego

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