So they happened and they are in everything from the Xbox, PS3, Steam and even blending into other areas along with the "gamification" of the world.

The question is should Nintendo add it to the WiiU. I know some great arguements for achievements in games:

• Can be used to nudge the player into new paths they wouldn't have thought about previously [one such example for me was this year with the Ico rerelease, the trophy about finishing under 2 hours seemed kind of crazy to begin with but lead me to some amazing level design shortcuts and kidn of blew my mind showing the cool idea of being bale to see previous areas when you progress to new ones actually having a gameplay use rather than a neat asthetic].
• Can add to a story selection [e.g. a choice having the same reward of "Villain" or something to show how bad either choice would be - something that could have propelled the Geth choice in Mass Effect 2 to have some meaningful impact on me].
• Can be used as one of the few ways of creating a dialog between the creator and player of the game - even to a lesser extent used to know how much of a game people played and used by sequels to add story changes etc...

But then I realise some of the really back things it brings on:

• The forced number and value of them on the xbox has lead to some designers finding them limiting without much impact.
• They can be used as lazy design to force players new goals to get to without any real pay off.
• They result in bragging rights and thus some games are slammed when they put to many difficult achievments in.
• They can remove connection to a game (the number of times I have gotton one around a story cut-scene and it has ruined the moment really annoys me).

So my question is should Nintendo impliment them [as some games have anyway - like Xenoblade Chronicles recently] and to what extent?

Also what do you guys think of the idea of Medals you can attack a couple favourites to your Mii so others can see them which is an idea that is mentioned a lot when this is brought up?

Well they already announced a system like it for the 3DS so I would expect they will consider it depending on how people react to them.

I honestly think the Wii U is dead in the long run if it doesn't have some sort of achievement/trophy system. For as many that want to hate on or talk about how they don't care about achievements there are plenty of us that enjoy them for good reason. 
 
I also say this because I believe if they do not add an achievement system it probably means they are going to mess up the online stuff again. Achievements were always part of a package and having the social stuff without them isn't something I can see happening. I have a bit of hope though, even with friend codes they actually managed to make a real friends list on the 3DS which is a nice start if nothing else.

The only way I know if I'm having fun is if my numbers go up!

@Commisar123 said:

Well they already announced a system like it for the 3DS so I would expect they will consider it depending on how people react to them.

I don't think that 3DS announcement (if you can call it that) is really the same thing. The Mii Plaza was updated to include achievements internal to that specific application, but there's no system-wide achievement support.

@Hailinel said:

@Commisar123 said:

Well they already announced a system like it for the 3DS so I would expect they will consider it depending on how people react to them.

I don't think that 3DS announcement (if you can call it that) is really the same thing. The Mii Plaza was updated to include achievements internal to that specific application, but there's no system-wide achievement support.

I misunderstood the announcement then. Still its a step, maybe not in the right direction depending on how you feel, but a step nonetheless

@Commisar123 said:

Well they already announced a system like it for the 3DS so I would expect they will consider it depending on how people react to them.

I don't think that 3DS announcement (if you can call it that) is really the same thing. The Mii Plaza was updated to include achievements internal to that specific application, but there's no system-wide achievement support.

Accomplishments!!!

As long as it has good games and improved online I am happy.

@Zenaxzd said:

I honestly think the Wii U is dead in the long run if it doesn't have some sort of achievement/trophy system. For as many that want to hate on or talk about how they don't care about achievements there are plenty of us that enjoy them for good reason. I also say this because I believe if they do not add an achievement system it probably means they are going to mess up the online stuff again. Achievements were always part of a package and having the social stuff without them isn't something I can see happening. I have a bit of hope though, even with friend codes they actually managed to make a real friends list on the 3DS which is a nice start if nothing else.

What if they get the online right though but simply leave achievements for games up to the developers (Xenoblade Chronicles for example)? Is this enough or does it need to be a game-wide thing? And if it does should they go along the route of giving them values like xbox gamerscore (And to a certain extent sonies trophy system)/allowing players to sow them off? Basically my question is what part of achievements add so much to the online experience that without them would cause problems, and is it as simple as all or nothing?

@ssj4raditz said:

The only way I know if I'm having fun is if my numbers go up!

Do you mean the idea of simply seeing yourself how much of a game you played/taking a step back and seeing the score for the entire collection of games for you to be impressed? Or more on the side of using it as allowing you to compare between games? And does that mean whichever it is, it is important that they are given a score for you over the impact they could give if they didn't?

@supermonkey122 said:

As long as it has good games and improved online I am happy.

So you don't think a good online experience is necassarily improved by the integration or an achievement-like system/it isn't a byproduct that appears once someone successfully creates a good online system?

(Yes, good games obviously! I don't think anyone would argue achievements are more important than the games that you have to play to get them... well most people wouldn't. lol)

U-Score!

@Dixavd said:

@ssj4raditz said:

The only way I know if I'm having fun is if my numbers go up!

Do you mean the idea of simply seeing yourself how much of a game you played/taking a step back and seeing the score for the entire collection of games for you to be impressed? Or more on the side of using it as allowing you to compare between games? And does that mean whichever it is, it is important that they are given a score for you over the impact they could give if they didn't?

Well... I was kinda trying to quote Calvin & Hobbes there... Anyway, I do liken Achievements/Trophies to the Hi-Scores of the bygone arcades. The higher my number, the better I know I've done (or, at least, I believe I've done). Achievements/Trophies, at least to me, also give me an opportunity (as you stated) to try different things. If there's points to be had for doing something different, I'll do it; or try to, at the very least. Simply put, I would like to see Nintendo at least try, seeing as how we've gotten used to these things in most of our other games.

Nintendo doesn't understand social media. They don't understand the Internet for chrissakes. I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo did achievements, and then didn't add any way of seeing your friend's achievements or comparing them. They just don't GET IT, and I doubt they ever will.

Like Sony is dumb, but I think they understand the basics at least. They know why social media is important, they're just really dumb at execution. Nintendo on the other hand straight up doesn't have a fucking clue.

@ssj4raditz said:

@Dixavd said:

@ssj4raditz said:

The only way I know if I'm having fun is if my numbers go up!

Do you mean the idea of simply seeing yourself how much of a game you played/taking a step back and seeing the score for the entire collection of games for you to be impressed? Or more on the side of using it as allowing you to compare between games? And does that mean whichever it is, it is important that they are given a score for you over the impact they could give if they didn't?

Well... I was kinda trying to quote Calvin & Hobbes there... Anyway, I do liken Achievements/Trophies to the Hi-Scores of the bygone arcades. The higher my number, the better I know I've done (or, at least, I believe I've done). Achievements/Trophies, at least to me, also give me an opportunity (as you stated) to try different things. If there's points to be had for doing something different, I'll do it; or try to, at the very least. Simply put, I would like to see Nintendo at least try, seeing as how we've gotten used to these things in most of our other games.

Oh sorry, lol I have never seen that comic stip properlly other than the characters so none of the references I would get. And I like that answer anyway and I think I am probably on the same page as you (even if I am still on the fence on how they should regulate it:

As forcing everyone the same number of points (alike to xbox) could continue the unimaginative rewards that the majority are, while not limiting it could mean games come out with stupidly easy high-points ones to get players to buy it just to bolster their score - so I am unsure how Nintendo could successfully impliment it without falling into the pitfalls that others do = but I definitely want them to try.

@Brodehouse:

How would you like to see them do it - simply integrate Steam achievements (As Nintendo has been in talks with Origin and Steam about their online services)? Or allow Publishers to integrate them in themselves like they did with Xenoblade Chronicles and to a certain extent SSB:Brawls (and the Resident Evil game that already came out on the 3DS did it with a medal system as well)? Or do you think they shouldn't try as you think they probably will fail with it anyway?

@Brodehouse said:

@Dixavd 'Allowing' publishers to do it themselves is the same as doing nothing at all. Sony 'allowed' publishers to put trophies in their games or not, and so they didn't. Game-specific achievements or achievements with no profile integration are also pointless. Who even knows if you'll have any meaningful friend integration whatsoever anyways. They don't get social media.

You are way too pessimistic, but I can see where your view is coming from. And allowing isn't the same thing and neither doe sit have to be useless if it is game specific. Steam would not allow EA to put Origin rewards in their games - Nintendo could easily follow the same idea. Then you have things like Ubisofts U-Play with is pretty much an achievement system but the points rewards go for Ubisoft specific rewards.

Also the 3DS has a pretty good friend system and saying that the WiiU is going to be useless in the regard isn't really helping anything as they have been talking to a lot of people this time around from Steam to Origin, to specific publishers on how they want to be able to interact with the player sof their games and how they want them to be able to link to the internet - honestly I don't think EA would let them screw this one up, but they might listen to EA too much and screw it up that way - but ultimately this is for western audiences as in Asia it isn't such a problem, especially since the 3DS street pass functionality works much more better since it is sold more and the majority of people buying these kinds of products live in the compact city anyway.

So far Nintendo has been handling achievements in game. I'm cool with the Checklist system in Kirby Mass Attack. I guess the problem is that Nintendo would need to require this sort of thing in all games if it's to take off, otherwise, as a developer, why bother?

Quite a few Nintendo games have in-game systems that are essentially achievements, and the spot-pass system was just recently updated with them.

I'd be surprised if the Wii U didn't fully support them, Nintendo do seem to be trying pretty hard to bring their systems into modern times.

@Brodehouse said:

Game-specific achievements or achievements with no profile integration are also pointless.

Achievements as a whole are pointless.

@Brodehouse said:

@Dixavd Bringing up UPlay is actually the most perfect example. No one gives a mighty fuck about UPlay points. I don't know how many I have, I don't know how many my friends have, and I don't care. I do know that my friend Sheldon has platinums in Prince of Persia and Assassin's Creed 2. I have the full thou in The Forgotten Sands.

I can see where you are coming from - but I do think the idea of them simply not trying is kind of pointless but whatever, totally your opinion.

@Brodehouse said:

Game-specific achievements or achievements with no profile integration are also pointless.

Achievements as a whole are pointless.

@sonicrift said:

So far Nintendo has been handling achievements in game. I'm cool with the Checklist system in Kirby Mass Attack. I guess the problem is that Nintendo would need to require this sort of thing in all games if it's to take off, otherwise, as a developer, why bother?

Yeah I've liked it too so far, if I remember correctly Kirby's Mass Attack rewarded you with mini-games - and SSB:Brawl and a huge reward thing and be sad to see their reward idea go. Maybe they could do promotions with games alike to Steam putting Valve characters and settings in inide games - instead having Nintendo unlocks in 3rd party games?

@Brodehouse said:

No, they're not. They're only pointless if you live in a vacuum. Achievements are another form of high score, and competing for score is one of the oldest and most fundamental elements of game design. Achievements return this element to games that no longer function based on score. If score is pointless then Pong is pointless and this whole industry is pointless.

If you want competition, play a multiplayer game, THAT'S the point of Pong. Unless it's an onrails shooter or something like that, single player games do not need competition, they're supposed to be fun, you don't need to get a high score to tell you to enjoy the game.

@Black_Rose said:

@Brodehouse said:

Game-specific achievements or achievements with no profile integration are also pointless.

Achievements as a whole are pointless.

I would not toally agree with that, but they definitely aren't very well managed or designed in a lot of games - but as a tool I think they can be really useful for Designers and rewarding to players if thought through properly. However I do not think there is a great system out right now to invoke this kind of use for it, which makes me wonder since Nintendo are the latest to try and quite odd they might have the chance to think of a way of implimenting them in a way that does.

@Brodehouse said:

No, they're not. They're only pointless if you live in a vacuum. Achievements are another form of high score, and competing for score is one of the oldest and most fundamental elements of game design. Achievements return this element to games that no longer function based on score. If score is pointless then Pong is pointless and this whole industry is pointless.

If you want competition, play a multiplayer game, THAT'S the point of Pong. Unless it's an onrails shooter or something like that, single player games do not need competition, they're supposed to be fun, you don't need to get a high score to tell you to enjoy the game.

@Commisar123 said:

@Hailinel said:

@Commisar123 said:

Well they already announced a system like it for the 3DS so I would expect they will consider it depending on how people react to them.

I don't think that 3DS announcement (if you can call it that) is really the same thing. The Mii Plaza was updated to include achievements internal to that specific application, but there's no system-wide achievement support.

I misunderstood the announcement then. Still its a step, maybe not in the right direction depending on how you feel, but a step nonetheless

But they took that step years ago. Games like Wii Sports Resort and Metroid Prime Trilogy included in-game achievements (they even called them achievements in Metroid, in Sports Resort they were called stamps)

Since they open themselves to games that come out on other platforms with achievements/trophies, they should really implement a Nintendo version (call them stars or coins or rupees or whatever) so the games that would have them anyway could easily use that system on Wii U.

As always, well implemented achievements can enhance the game and badly implemented ones can suck all the fun out of it.

No we don't need them.

I need to justify my life with achievements so yes I Think they should include it. You should get a trophy if you buy the system in the first year BAZINGA.

There won't be Trophies or Achievements... There'll be Award-ments.

@biospank said:

No we don't need them.

Why? What is your reasoning behind that?

@DeF said:

@Commisar123 said:

But they took that step years ago. Games like Wii Sports Resort and Metroid Prime Trilogy included in-game achievements (they even called them achievements in Metroid, in Sports Resort they were called stamps)

Since they open themselves to games that come out on other platforms with achievements/trophies, they should really implement a Nintendo version (call them stars or coins or rupees or whatever) so the games that would have them anyway could easily use that system on Wii U.

As always, well implemented achievements can enhance the game and badly implemented ones can suck all the fun out of it.

You seem to imply integrating it but not forcing it, and while I liked the premise I question what could stop games from putting in really easy achievements with a high reward (however it is scored), especially with all the "casual" gamers who would come through from it? Or do you think it should be Nintendo-only first party titles? (As I so far have been unable to think of a non-first party title that put in their own achievements in-game on a recent nintendo console)

U-Score!

@Dixavd said:

@DeF said:

@Commisar123 said:

But they took that step years ago. Games like Wii Sports Resort and Metroid Prime Trilogy included in-game achievements (they even called them achievements in Metroid, in Sports Resort they were called stamps)

Since they open themselves to games that come out on other platforms with achievements/trophies, they should really implement a Nintendo version (call them stars or coins or rupees or whatever) so the games that would have them anyway could easily use that system on Wii U.

As always, well implemented achievements can enhance the game and badly implemented ones can suck all the fun out of it.

You seem to imply integrating it but not forcing it, and while I liked the premise I question what could stop games from putting in really easy achievements with a high reward (however it is scored), especially with all the "casual" gamers who would come through from it? Or do you think it should be Nintendo-only first party titles? (As I so far have been unable to think of a non-first party title that put in their own achievements in-game on a recent nintendo console)

The Conduit did it (assuming Conduit 2 did it too but I haven't played it), I think Resident Evil: Darkside Chronicles did it, Xenoblade Chronicles did it (though that is first party again)

edit: apparently, Ghost Recon Online will at least have in-game achievements

I bet it dosn't and even if it does it won't be easy to compare achievements with your friends.

@DeF said:

@Dixavd said:

@DeF said:

@Commisar123 said:

But they took that step years ago. Games like Wii Sports Resort and Metroid Prime Trilogy included in-game achievements (they even called them achievements in Metroid, in Sports Resort they were called stamps)

Since they open themselves to games that come out on other platforms with achievements/trophies, they should really implement a Nintendo version (call them stars or coins or rupees or whatever) so the games that would have them anyway could easily use that system on Wii U.

As always, well implemented achievements can enhance the game and badly implemented ones can suck all the fun out of it.

You seem to imply integrating it but not forcing it, and while I liked the premise I question what could stop games from putting in really easy achievements with a high reward (however it is scored), especially with all the "casual" gamers who would come through from it? Or do you think it should be Nintendo-only first party titles? (As I so far have been unable to think of a non-first party title that put in their own achievements in-game on a recent nintendo console)

The Conduit did it (assuming Conduit 2 did it too but I haven't played it), I think Resident Evil: Darkside Chronicles did it, Xenoblade Chronicles did it (though that is first party again)

edit: apparently, Ghost Recon Online will at least have in-game achievements

Interesting, Ghost Recon especially. Nintendo suppossably in talks with many publishers, I wonder how the talk with Ubisoft went and how much of it Nintendo are setting up - I also wonder if Ubisoft set it up on their own back not knowing exactly what Nintendo will do - but definitely interesting, I wonder if it is them putting U-play in the same kind of way Steam is with its games (or when it appeared on the PS3's version of Portal 2). Plus it is the first I have seen which on release is going to have them and is not a Nintendo exclusive, as conduit and RE: DC were even if they were third party.

@biospank: Fair enough, they are some pretty good reasons to hate it, some I have thought about (although forgot to mention in my first post, as I never found them to be that much of a problem for me).

Yet I feel the first point is personal preference and not a reason to remove them (As some people enjoy doing that). B could be avoided by Nintendo simply making a rule that all of them can be unlocked without linking to the internet. C has the same thing with cheats and almost any reward in a game even if it does.t have achievements so while I do agree it probably increases it, I don't find it a big enough excuse to completely remove it. And D can probably fixed by software updates, as the information isn't lost just they aren't responding to each other perfectly = although I do agree if getting a new console lost all the previous stuff it would be a kick in the teeth. I definitely see how they can be annoying though and will have needed to be thought through before creating a system.

@Dixavd said:

Plus it is the first I have seen which on release is going to have them and is not a Nintendo exclusive, as conduit and RE: DC were even if they were third party.

well there aren't really that many multiplatform releases that came out on Wii as well anyway (aside form licensed cash ins and stuff like that)

I would rather Nintendo focus more on making good hardware and software than Achievements/Trophies.

I would be surprised if Nintendo didn't make some sort of achievement system for the Wii U.