Nintendo Promises Future Tomodachi Games Will Be More "Inclusive"

I almost can't believe you made such a lazy response, then again who ever said bigots were clever.

@arch4non: how dare you speak common sense! It's all about me me me!

@arch4non: ...being gay isn't a lifestyle choice.

@jamessmarion: If that's the only reply you can muster then I will take it as you conceding to my point.

Implying that it's a choice invalidates literally everything you've said in this thread, including your "point".

White privilege (or white skin privilege) refers to the set of societal privileges that white people benefit from beyond those commonly experienced by people of color in the same social, political, or economic spaces

i'm saying that your white skin invalidates your idea of how an adult japanese man operates in this particular social, political, and economic space. how did i use it wrong? you were asserting that you know the thought processes that took place in that nintendo board room, so i was just reminding you that you couldn't possibly know.

@defaultprophet: What you're trying to do is frame the debate into something it's not and that's not going to work here.

@neato: Saying that as a queer person I can't be upset that a group of people, in this case Japanese, refuse to acknowledge the existence of people like me is about as huge a misappropriation of "white privilege" as I could imagine.

i'm not saying that at all. you are welcome to be upset and i wouldn't dream of stopping you. just don't assume you know how japanese men think in japan. it is like me, a straight man, saying i know how you think and feel. i don't say that.

No, what I'm doing is pointing out that you have a really skewed worldview and you're not equipped to have a nuanced discussion about this if that's your starting point.

The current response should have been the first, but I would like Nintendo to try to patch the game, change a couple lines of code and even if it is half-assed, say "hey we tried to fix it." At least that action would mean more than words in a press release/statement.

But to be honest, Nintendo trying to patch a game via internet....that would make this story an unintended comedy

@neato: I mean you're right, I find it impossible to even think up a coherent sentence with at least three dicks in my mouth.

Thats quite possibly the dumbest thing i've ever heard.

Theres this thing called empathy. I as a straight white man, can empathize with people who are in different circumstances than i am. I can sympathize with people of a different ethnicity, gender, or sexual orientation than me. I can also judge their criticisms of things as well. Being a straight white male does not invalidate my opinion, it merely means im not speaking from experience. THATS IT

For example. This is a dumb thing to get outraged at because its a dumb looking Sims type game with Miis.

Won't be happy till they change the name of the game to Tomogaychi Life.

People sound super worried in here that future games may actually make a point of including more gay options. I mean that is what this is about... not about this game specifically, about future games. People think about these things from their most base levels. "It's just a game! I want to play my fun game!" It's still getting released, don't worry.

thank you.

but please consider editing this part out. it conflicts with my sensibilities and makes me uncomfortable. thank you.

@defaultprophet: Yeah, that's about what I expected what would happen. If we were talking about Israel you would probably be saying I was antisemitic about now. Maybe the next person will take your bait, but it's not going to work for you this time.

@jamessmarion: Should we also be offended that Tomodachi life doesn't support polygamy? If not, can you please explain precisely why?

Yep. I'm fake outraged. I'm trolling you. You caught me. I'm the Ultimate SJ Warrior. I'm shakin the ropes brother.

of course your white privilege doesn't invalidate your opinions! they just carry much less weight now.

Look forward to the gay slider in the options in the sequel.

Iwata: "Now you can adjust, the gay, to the amount you are comfortable with" *big Iwata smile*

I believe them when they say it can't be patched in, because Nintendo has no idea how patches work. They barely have a grasp on how the internet works.

It's cute that you're trying to use terms you don't understand to invalidate their proper use. Kudos.

it is clear that you are looking for an argument.

A lot of that is extrapolation, and most of it is not exactly complicated work, just another series of if statements. You don't know that any new dialogue or assets are necessary, from what I can tell. Homosexual relationships spontaneously having babies would be hilarious, nobody cares about that, and adoption would be a welcome feature for everybody. That article doesn't highlight any special problems involved. It really just asserts that it's more complicated than it seems, which is not exactly evidence of anything. What all this really boils down to is the need to add a three-choice radio button in character creation and a check in starting new relationships which is, wow, I am not impressed with the complexity involved there.

Nintendo could convince me that there's insurmountable technical issues here, maybe, but they have to do it. This vague hand-waving and hoping the internet assumes they're right is not sufficient. They don't need to do it; I don't care if they do. But if they want to convince me and many other people, they're going to have to be much more open about what the issue is, or this will just continue.

okay, but i do think i was using it properly. a white man was asserting he knew the state of mind the japanese folks at nintendo were in. i was saying that since he isn't a japanese man living in japan, he can't relate to them enough to possibly know exactly how and what they were thinking. the japanese people at nintendo are in a minority of this western-centric debate right now.

This is quickly devolving into "I'm going to say this again" "now I'm going to say this again" "I'm going to repeat my point" "I'm going to say the same exact thing as someone else said" "I don't think you understood that I was right, let me repeat myself" "I'm hoping using more words will work, but this is the same point".

Internet debates are so... wonderful.

this is what #activism is now.

NO NEWS HERE.

You joke but this has to of been suggested by someone at some developer at some time.

Holy moly, Nintendo just gave everyone a reason to not argue and yet, here we are.

If you have read the thread you know that is not true here. You don't even directly control the characters in the game! Sure you could super half ass it and force something through causing bugs and whatnot, but we all know Nintendo would never solve a game problem that way. The localization team probably has zero control over changing and adding mechanics to the game. If you want to discuss the current Japanese way of thinking about gay marriage in their social and political systems then fine, but don't act like you can change a game to this extent with one line of code.

Good on Nintendo for changing the wording of their message to be even more clear than before. Hopefully they have learned that you need to account for 100% of the possible offences in the world when making statements. That is how Western society works today.... Or just don't release your qwerky Japanese games outside of Japan anymore. That is the much easier option.

It's still a shame that same sex couples being included is something is still a conscious decision.

what the hell is going on in here

The only thing that'll come from all this will be the lack of another localized Tomodachi game.

Whether or not you see that as a big loss is personal, I guess. :/

You would think humans are complex creatures that could hold a multitude of opinions. That sometimes those opinions are shared, and at other times, they will disagree with the very same people they had agreed with before. Strange that.

@amafi said:

I honestly don't mind them not including same-sex relationships in the original game. Like I said, it's understandable that that is how the original (non-North American) game was created, particularly with Japan's apparent fucked up laws against it that I wasn't even aware of but jesus fucking christ Japan. But whatever, like I said, I understand even more how it came out like it is.

The problem, as I said, is that people in North America who are apparently, you know, more progressive and want to let people live a life they will be happy in that doesn't hurt anyone pointed out "hey, maybe this game which has romantic human relationships as its focal point and which involved created a representation of me could give me the option of being in a same-sex relationship, since that is how I would live my life" and Nintendo's response initial response very much boiled down to "it's not a valid relationship in our eyes". There is no other way to take their response, because otherwise they would have simply said "it was a simple oversight" just like Double Fine did.

Once again, THAT is where they really fucked up. Not in the original game, and not in not altering it for the North American release. They fucked up because people said "hey, I think it would be nice if I had this very core part of my daily life represented in this game that's very focused on (albeit very silly/exaggerated) simulating daily life and relationships", and Nintendo's response could simply not be interpreted as anything but "your way of life is not valid consideration for our game".

Nintendo needs to understand that's not an acceptable outlook, in the greater part of North America at any rate. What's more, it seems like the backlash against it may have even done that. Maybe. But that's the whole point! Do you think they would have even issued another response after that first one if everyone had shut up? Believe it or not, the loud uproar isn't to annoy you or piss you off; it happens because it's the only way a big company will even acknowledge your concerns, much less listen to you.

If you think I'm "disgusting" for thinking all this, then fuck yeah I'll be the grossest motherfucker you ever did see.

I don't see a problem with Nintendo's original statement. This is a non-issue.

@sergio: not really my point.

Polygamy is a lifestyle choice. Being gay isn't.

I want to fuck the Mii.

@burton_radons: Are you even a programmer that has done more than set up a blog or something? It is not as easy as you are saying.

Spontaneous same-sex relationships with babies would garner not only the same reactions as gay people playing it and ending up in a spontaneous hetero relationship, but would probably be more problematic given our own culture's reluctance to accept gay marriage in every state.

The game is rated E. Now I don't personally think exposing children to same-sex relationships is negative, but I'm sure some parents wouldn't appreciate their youngster coming up to them complaining that their Mii married a character that was the same gender when they would prefer to marry a character of the opposite gender. To prevent this, they would need to include the ability to flag characters to be either straight, gay, bi, or none, and probably put that behind a parental lock. Then include how they would react to one another based on those flags.

All of this would not only take resources, but also time. I was pleasantly surprised that they chose to bring this game over. After it was released in Japan, I kept hearing that this could never be released here. They must have been working on localizing it with the least amount of effort, meaning not rewriting any engines. They planned for when it would be released, so they had to plan out any marketing for this game, which would be lost if they didn't release when they expected to. Delaying wouldn't have been feasible.

Could they patch this game? Maybe, but how big would that patch have to be? If you bought the game digitally, no problem. If you bought a physical copy, then how much additional space would you need in memory to hold that patch?

There are so many variables, that without seeing Nintendo's code base, or know how they managed their project, you can't really say it is simple. I can sympathize with what they might need to do since it took me two weeks to track down a particular area of the code today to make an upgrade change because the people familiar with this code are either no longer with the company or on different projects.

I don't agree with @jamessmarion in most of what he is saying, but you are using * privilege wrong. You have the definition correct, but his isn't a case of privilege. It'd be closer to having a cultural bias, and ignoring that this franchise has mainly targeted those from a Japanese culture where same-sex marriage isn't legal anywhere in their country. We could hope all we want that their culture would eventually include same-sex marriage, but as long as no part of their country does, it isn't unfathomable that games targeting their fellow countryman wouldn't include it from the get go.

In hindsight, would it have been great if they also looked at other cultures? Sure. As I've said, it was a pleasant surprise that this is coming out here. At what point was that decision made? If they hadn't planned on it ahead of time, then it's still easy understand why it wasn't initially implemented. In both statements Nintendo made, they said they were listening to feedback. So if they make another game in this franchise, or any other franchise for that matter, they now know what we may be looking for from them.

I can empathize with people wanting same-sex relationships in this game, even though it really isn't that type of game - a life sim. It's unfortunate that some people on the other side of the issue ignore all logic and can't see things from the perspective of Nintendo.

I'd like to offer a few thoughts in relation to some of the points of the argument.

The first, and most obvious one is to nip this notion that lesbians, gays, bisexuals, transgenders, and queers are taking over culture. This is an absurd notion when the overwhelming majority of characters in all media are cisgender straight folks and the overwhelming majority of all elected officials, CEOs of large (and small) corporations, heads of NGOs, and every other category of person-in-the-public-eye are cisgender straight people. We have been omitted, ridiculed, marginalized, and misunderstood for so long and in so many different ways, that yes, some of us have started to stand up for ourselves and each other, some of us have had the courage to publicly express our hurt feelings when a company that has been loved for decades does and/or says something insensitive, or treats us like we're the corn lobby or the oil lobby. We're people, we're individuals, and we have stayed silent for generations, and it got us nowhere. To think that if the next new Nintendo character is now going to have a non-binary gender identity or partner with another character of the same gender (or just not an opposite gender) would somehow indicate straight people "losing" a "battle" against the "gay agenda" indicates breathtaking immaturity. No one is fighting a war against any other sexual orientation or conception of gender, it's just that those of us who don't fall out of the "default" mould are asking that we be treated as people.

No, the world's not gonna suddenly be a better place if Samus makes out with Zelda in the next Smash Brothers game, but let's also not forget that it is a form of social commentary to omit homosexuality from a game whose mechanics involve gender identities and coupling, whether or not that is the intent. And yes, it is quite obvious that Nintendo has the legal right to produce whatever game they want to produce, but no it is not disappointing if someone exercises their right to express their disappointment over such choices. It would be ridiculous to suggest that it's "bullying". By that logic, the scrawny 85 pound kid with coke bottle glasses is picking on the captain of the football team; scratch that, the entire football team.

Beyond that, we are on a website that is partially built around the concept of video game criticism and video game reviews. Are the editorial staff of Giant Bomb "bullying" their favourite developers into making better games when they give shitty scores to shitty games? If not, then how does it follow that a person criticizing an editorial decision in a video game to omit their identity or the identity of a character they would like to embody "bullying" Nintendo? The sense of scale is completely off on this line of logic.

And to the person who feels bothered when a character is gay when they don't feel the character should be is totally within his or her rights to hold that sentiment and to express that. But this is not just a creative or storytelling choice, Nintendo has promoted Tomodachi Life as a game where, to one extent or another, the user is the storyteller. If you can worship the Virtual Boy, dress up like a dinosaur, participate in musical theatre, or fight turn-based battles against veggie burgers, is it so much to ask that whether or not one gender box or another was clicked doesn't effect whether or not someone can date the mii version of their partner in the game they were considering buying and playing?

Anyways, as to Nintendo's new statements on the matter, it's a hopeful sign, but I mean, we're talking about the company that gave us Sheik/Zelda, it is not as though they have been afraid of portraying characters who weren't straight and cisgender. They fucking did it fifteen years ago!

One last thing, how ludicrous is the notion that now that Nintendo has said that the next Tomodachi game will recognize the formation of homosexual relationships, there's not going to be another one localized to the West? Come on. This announcement does not move the needle one iota.

@milkman: Was the point then to be condescending to people who actually are for same-sex marriage, but disagree that it's an outrage that Nintendo didn't include same-sex marriage in their game? Because that's what that snarky comment sounded like. But perhaps I'm misinterpreting it like people misinterpreted Nintendo's statement.

Werd.

Nintendo will not put out another Tomodachi Life game in the West. Come on now.

They will not risk another bullshitstorm like this. And even if there will be one and it includes gay relationships, people will go "there are 4 other letters in LGBTQ, why are those not included?" And the cycle continues.

If this were about ethics it wouldn't be about Nintendo and it wouldn't just be about this game.

You can complain about something not being in a game because you think it would make it that much better. That is something entirely different than stating that they must include something or else they must be evil, because whatever they do it has to be 'social commentary'. If I want to shoot ducks this is not the game for me. If I want to have a same sex marriage this is not the game for me. This game will not accurately represent anyone. If you want same sex marriage in games then this is very much the wrong approach. You're not asking for anything but demanding that 'things are set straight' when there is nothing wrong to begin with.

All that happens now is Nintendo getting in a bad spotlight (which is what I think is the main motivation behind this in the first place) and some minorities are making themselves very unpopular in record time. I find it difficult to believe that it is coincidence that the company repeatedly assaulted by gaming media (Nintendo) is the one who gets into 'trouble' for what they decided to include in a game. In a game that nobody has heard of, none the less.

And the people who are simply asking for this to be included, are not part of this problem. They are doing the right thing. Either the media is blowing this out of proportion (again) or it is real and the people condemning Nintendo are the problem. The truth is probably in the middle.

Japan: these people don't represent us. Keep doing your thing.