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Sticking the Landing

Patrick's lengthy conversation with Entertainment Weekly writer Jeff Jensen on that ending, the concept of fan entitlement, and the perils of player agency.

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UPDATE: Make sure you read my story from last week, too: "When It's Over, It's Over." I consider this a compliment to that.

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[Note: This story does contain spoilers about the ending to Mass Effect 3 and TV show The Sopranos.]

The conversation about Mass Effect 3 continues, albeit one that's died down in the past week. That's unsurprising, as players wait to hear about BioWare's next move.

Will the studio change the ending? I'm betting not. Will the studio release downloadable content that provides more context and closure, and will that probably have been the plan all along? I'd say that's likely, but remains unclear.

As part of my story last week about the intense, polarizing, and government-filled reaction to the ending, I spent 30 minutes on the phone with Entertainment Weekly senior writer Jeff Jensen, himself a fellow Mass Effect fan, devotee at the shrine of Lost, and a frequent commentator on pop culture. Much of our conversation did not make it into my piece, but it felt worth sharing, especially the discussions about the concept of fan "entitlement," the precarious nature of endings, and the design struggles of player agency.

Let's contextualize this a bit, too.

This chat happened just as BioWare made its first public statement to fans, and Jensen had not finished the game, though he had read about the endings. As such, we didn't dive much into the narrative misgivings players with the final moments of Mass Effect 3 (which, believe me, I'm with you on), and focuses on the bigger picture.

Hope you enjoy it. It's a bit talky.

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Mass Effect 3 was the culmination of hundreds of hours of playing in a universe for many people.
Mass Effect 3 was the culmination of hundreds of hours of playing in a universe for many people.

Jeff Jensen: I’ll be honest with you, I only began playing Mass Effect 3 about a week and a half ago. I actually wasn’t really into it in the beginning, and I got distracted by other things, so I have to return to it, but catching up to the controversy is fascinating.

Giant Bomb: It’s interesting because, unlike other mediums, when there’s a television show, when theres’s a finale, or there’s a movie that’s a conclusion to some multi-part series, you can consume that in an hour-and-a-half, two hours. Mass Effect 3 took me 40 hours to finish. It’s not as simple as just booting it up one night so you can catch up, and find out what happened.

Jensen: You felt burned? Were you burned, personally?

GB: Not really. I was disappointed. They were going for something a little more audacious and bittersweet, and I do think a lot of the reaction has stemmed from that. A lot of people play these games to be the good guy that accomplishes everything, and video game endings, as a whole, the trope is that you’re the hero that’s unbeatable and everything turns out alright in the end. They went for something a little more mixed: things are out of your control. Bad things are going to happen no matter what you do, what choice you make. People have some real trouble processing that. Some wanted this “you saved the princess” ending that games have always have. Personally, as a player, it’s really important that they’re having this reaction. You don’t see that very often with a video game.

Jensen: A couple things about that. To prepare for this interview and other things that I’m working on, I actually went and read some sites and actually spoiled everything.

What I find interesting about what you're saying is that...it’s an interesting nuance that you’re talking about. It sounds like whatever scenario you choose, Earth blows up, right?

GB: Earth doesn’t necessarily get destroyed, but the mass relays do get destroyed. The thing that has allowed the universe to be unified, that goes away. In some sense, it’s the universe starting over. Some of them, Shepard dies, some of them, Shepard lives, but as far as I can tell, none of the endings I saw, and none of the endings I’ve read about, involve you saving the day in every capacity. There is no way, no matter what you do, that everything’s going to be alright for everybody. Bad shit happens at the end of Mass Effect 3, and there are consequences for that. I do think that’s part of the reaction--it’s an interesting reaction for BioWare to purposely provoke, but I think it’s an important one. In some way, it’s a commentary on the fact that these games are largely about player choice, and at the end, there’s a subversion of that. Part of this is out of your hands. Maybe that’s looking into it too much, but I do get a sense that there’s a purposeful subversion of the player to reflect that no matter what you do, bad things are going to happen.

Jensen: I really like what you’re saying. It sounds like what BioWare really wanted exactly the kind of dialogue that we are having here, which is, I think, they hoped we could get to the end and everyone that plays this game...it’s having exactly the kind of emotional experience that you’re having but also the kind of reflective experience that you’re having, which seems really worthwhile, and pretty quality. But instead, it gets unfortunately minimized into just the simple issue of satisfaction and catharsis and all that.

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GB: Specifically, Lost was the first analogy that came to mind. I’m sure, as someone that writes a lot about TV and movies, you witness fan entitlement, or the sense of entitlement that fans feel when they’re on this long journey. Whether it’s a series of movies over several years or a TV show over several years, fans come to expect certain things. I’m curious what you’ve perceived over the years, whether from Lost or other shows and movies, how creators in those mediums deal with that sense of entitlement from fans, given the creators themselves have a vision in mind for how they want things to play out.

Jensen: What I would say that the controversies around the finales of Lost and Mass Effect and other examples, too, that we see in pop culture, like for example last year with the television show The Killing, which also kind of flummoxed a lot of people with how they ended the first season. What we are reminded of is that in entertainment, and especially in the mediums of television and video games, they are ultimately service industries. Which is to say the customer is always right, and that’s going to be frustrating for storytellers to hear because ultimately you exist, your product exists, at the whims and desire of your consumer base. If they’re happy, if they’re unhappy, they’re right. Even if they’re wrong, they’re right. You have to deal with it, right? You have to deal with it.

You look at BioWare’s response to this, the Facebook post last [week], and they are basically out there saying “We hear you, we understand your complaints, we’re looking at some possibilities about what to do, but we want you to know that we hear you.” This just goes to show that even if, behind the scenes, the creators at BioWare are like “Damnit, they didn’t get our story! To address the complaints represent a compromise of our artistic vision.” That sucks, but they’re right. You just have to deal with it.

The similarities between Lost and Mass Effect--there’s another similarity, too. Over the past decade in television, we’ve seen a creative medium come into its own and take some bold leaps forward, but there’s still some room to grow. I think after The Sopranos--or, more specifically, after Twin Peaks--I think a lot of TV storytellers became enamored with this notion that TV writing can be an art and I can be an artist, and I can have my own show and tell my own story and it’s my story, my world, my rules, and I’m going to tell you a story and you’re going to listen to it, and you’re going to follow it, and if I bring you to a certain end that is maybe not necessarily a happy ending or the ending that you want, it’s still my story. It has to be my story if it has any artistic integrity.

The audience push back is “no.” As much as the viewer benefits in this era of artist auteur television, in which the most interesting television is being made by singular creators with singular visions that are just telling their own story, viewers who become fans and who immerse themselves and give themselves over to it and devote so much time to thinking about it and talking about it and dreaming into it, they get a sense of ownership. Their agenda becomes projected onto your agenda. If you’re a writer, if you’re a television network, you benefit from that and you can’t run away from that because they’re keeping you in business. When you get to the end, sometimes what you have is this effect, this clash between shows that the artist, the writer, was creating and the show that the viewer, the fan, thought they were watching. When there’s no sync-up, there’s profound dissatisfaction. For the creators of Lost or the creator of The Sopranos, David Chase, that kind of sticks. At the very least, what you hope for is “Well, okay, you didn’t like my ending, but can you appreciate it? Or can we talk about it?” But, instead, that hopeful conversation gets swallowed up by the vitriol that comes with a more consumer orientation that’s more “I expected one thing and instead you gave me a lemon,” if that makes sense.

When The Sopranos faded to black without absolute resolution, not everyone was happy.
When The Sopranos faded to black without absolute resolution, not everyone was happy.

With video games, it’s interesting because I think video games are on a similar creative trajectory. Video games, the art of video games, has grown by leaps and bounds, I mean, ever since its introduction. The entire history of this medium is defined by radical innovation every other year, it seems. The exhilarating part of watching this industry is watching a medium of entertainment grow and blossom before its eyes, and there’s another aspect to it, too, which is very different from watching any other entertainment medium blossom over the past, you know, 100 years of pop culture, which is...I don’t know if people who were fans of movies or fans of rock music during the golden age of those periods said things like “it’s really cool now, but just wait 10 years from now, because we can all be where it’s going.” Video games are different. The best video games not only are really, really good, but as of right now, they capture your imagination for what they could be 10 to 15 years from now. We have this weird dilemma where we’re exulting what the medium can do, even as we’re bucking up against its limitations here and now. And that brings me to Mass Effect.

The interesting thing about Mass Effect is that it’s on the cutting edge of this whole idea of player choice. There’s a sort of choose your own adventure kind of thing. My dilemma playing Mass Effect is usually, as much as I really appreciate the idea and I understand what they go for and I understand how it affects the story, at the same time, I’m always keenly aware that it never really does what I really want it to do. There’s some kind of creative, artificial intelligence within the game that is constantly changing the game in robust, profound ways in response to your choices, instead of just shunting you to one, two or three other options that don’t feel dramatically different from each other. They’re not choose your own adventure games, it’s choose your own nuance games. It seems like Mass Effect 3 butts up against that, especially with its ending, and also butts up against something else, too, which is...hearing about the controversy about Mass Effect 3, it makes me wonder if the artist creators of the game over at BioWare, how much control over their storytelling do these artists really want to seed to the player?

At the end of the day, one of the exciting storylines that is emerging out of the past 10 years of video games are these creators who see video games as a means of artistic expression, a way of telling a story that expresses ideas that they want to challenge people with, that they want to get people talking to. And the most impactful way to do that is to limit potential interpretations and choices in a story, instead of opening it up open source like and making it everything you want it to be.

It seems to me that these possible endings that Mass Effect 3 gives us at the end of the game are like “Yeah, your choices throughout the game have affected your fate in terms of whether you live or die, they affect, to some degree, your character, but we still want a certain [set] of pre-determined endings that are designed to facilitate the certain point that we have about the world, certain ideas that we want you consider, certain conventions that we want to debunk, and pursuing an artistic agenda like that is tricky when you also want to create a game in which the player, in some ways, is being lead to believe they are the defining artistic decision maker in the game, if that makes sense.

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GB: There’s definitely that rub between the player and the creator. An unintended consequence of BioWare’s player choice model was an end where players felt like they were gonna have more agency over that conclusion. And maybe it's not so much that they had written their own ending in their mind, but they’d made all these decisions along the way. Knowing game development, a lot of this is largely just a function of they have 18 months to produce a thing, so there’s only so many outcomes they can produce in X amount of time, but my large takeaway from all of this is that it’s a positive thing, showing how much players can care about a story.

But you’re right, once you’ve handed over the keys of the kingdom to the player, they also expect certain things. You can fall back to the passive entertainment experience excuse with TV and movies because the interactive part happens on the periphery and the creators can always retreat back to saying “at the end of the day, what matters is what’s canonical in the television series--that’s a passive experience that we’re writing and presenting.” But games aren’t that way. Mass Effect is definitely totally separate from that--it’s not just you shooting from the beginning of the level to the end of the level. You’re choosing which characters live and die, which races live and die, which planets survive and don’t. Once you’ve given people that power, you’ve opened the box, the genie is out of the bottle. Players feel like they should have this unique impact on this world and how it plays out, and it’s what makes the world "entitlement" feel...it doesn’t seem to work as well for the reaction. Entitlement’s a really easy word to apply to it, but in some sense, players should feel entitled when they’ve been told they’re the ones who are entitled to make these decisions.

When they get to an end that isn’t satisfying, an end where BioWare says they want to make a statement, that goes directly contrary to the player and the agency they had during that experience. I imagine, as a developer, that’s really tough, especially as games try to embrace this whole cinematic appeal and trying to take what lessons they can from other mediums. Games are inherently interactive, and when you start to take steps further to involving player in the story, you’re going to have consequences for the player’s emotional reaction when you take that away from them.

Jensen: There’s something that you’re also touching on here that I really like, which is a really good point. Regardless of your story, whatever medium you’re experiencing a story, what do we want from endings is a really big picture topic here. Some of the themes that you talked about at the beginning of our conversation here come into play, things like the video game experience offers you the chance to be a hero, and hero stories are all about taking their fate into their own hands and are able to impose their will on a world. They may succeed, they may fail, a lot of that depends on skill, but they get to impose their will on the world for better or worse. You go into a very long journey in which you are executing this kind of heroic function--you expect the opportunity to save the day. You think that should be an option that’s available to you, and, in this case, that’s not. In that way, a traditional ending, or what we want from an ending to that kind of story, is subverted. In other ways, just in general, what we want from endings is catharsis, especially a series finale.

When BioWare opened the box with players choices, it opened itself to this kind of reaction.
When BioWare opened the box with players choices, it opened itself to this kind of reaction.

Even though my guess is we may not see the Mass Effect the franchise, it seems to me what was being presented to us was that this is the end, this is the last game at least with this character, in a really involving, immersive, creative endeavor. Here, we really do see analogs to things like Lost or The Sopranos, where a fan base that’s large and rabid and loyal and passionate and really, really invested--they’re not only getting what the final game or final episode, the end of a story, they’re getting the door slammed on a huge part of their lives, a significant thing in their lives. To that end, an ending, then, must give you something more. There’s an expectation of something more. There’s something like a massive emotional catharsis. The ending of Lost really tried to go for that, they tried to win on emotion. “This is the end for all of us, my friends, and we’re all going away, in more ways than one. It’s been a long journey--bittersweet, sad, wonderful, joyous.” And they send us out with tears and a surge fo emotion. Lost completely triumphed int hat regard, but in other areas that people were expecting, the more intellectual areas, payoffs of certain storylines that people were invested in and mysteries that they were really invested in, the storytellers never said “We’re not necessarily as interested in that.” For a lot of people, that was a huge part of that entertainment experience, and they didn’t get it. The catharsis was incomplete.

There seems to be a similarity here with Mass Effect 3, with a fan base that has gone through these games and come to the end, and they want the full meal catharsis--they want everything. They want a heroic end, or the possibility of a heroic end. They want an emotional send-off, they want resolution of certain mysteries, and they all want it to be coherent and skillfully done, and all that. It sounds like Mass Effect just didn’t nail that landing.

GB: When I watched the end of Lost, the emotional arc worked perfectly fine. Yes, I was there for the mysteries and that was the fun of the week-to-week nature of that show, but at the end, I got the emotional closure with each of the characters. It’s different from player to player, just as with each viewer of Lost or any other television show. But with Mass Effect, what they brought to the end was, yes, the mysteries were important, and, yes, the resolution of the conflict with the Reapers was important, but it was the player’s agency. People talk about it in terms of the ending, but it was really just about these very binary choices presented in front of you that didn’t seem to reflect the agency that players had brought in throughout this entire adventure. As a result, they didn’t get get closure through their own agency, which was the motivational factor for these three games, which is why they brought their saved games from one game to the next. It’s interesting to see BioWare run into that as they start to contemplate how they address the reaction.

Jensen: I’m reminded of that whole idea of the observer effect, as well as schrodinger's cat. There’s a world of possibilities inside that box, until you get to the end and you get to the action of opening that box, and looking at it, and in that moment, then, all possibilities collapse and one remains, and only that option remains. Ultimately, then, this experience that was defined by the romance of mystery and possibility suddenly now becomes only defined by this one concrete resolution.

I’m reminded that with Lost--this is a show, week after week, captured your imagination and allowed you to dream into it an infinite number of possibilities and they were really good and clever about it. “What is going on? What is going on?” The interesting thing that happened about the end of Lost is that I honestly think the ending of Lost was an attempt by the show runners to actually communicate a specific point that they had, but while retaining, for the viewer, the quality that they identified as the defining characteristic of Lost, which was mystery, which was should the legacy of this show be one in which we’re still debating and still wondering and theorizing and still speculating years afterwards. I think they thought that by not being clear and concrete and definitive on many of the mysteries that people wanted resolved, they felt they were remaining thematically and artistically true to their creative enterprise and the entertainment experience that we had, which was the conversation about it, the debating about it, the comparison of theories about it, the arguing over it. They tried to thread that needle right at the end with an ending about, “how can we give closure and how can we end the story on our terms that is also satisfying to the audience but is true to the greater whole of this show?” Tricky, tricky. Because it makes you aware that you fundamentally usually watch something and endings usually come to us.

When we get an ending to a story or a final chapter of a story or a final shot, you realize that they’re fundamnetally different animals than the entertainment experience that preceeded it as a whole. The entertainment experience that preceeds an ending is all about sustained tension and sustained mystery, and that final thing is just resolution.

Colored endings may have seemed clever on paper, but players did not respond very well.
Colored endings may have seemed clever on paper, but players did not respond very well.

Endings often just can’t win. Most screenwriters will tell you the hardest part of any movie, any story to tell, is just the end. It’s the thing that changes the most, it’s the endings that are the most fought over among collaborators, they’re the things that are just the hardest to land. Some people get it really, really right, some people get it really, really wrong, and some people land anywhere in-between and our attitudes about them can change. The thing about controversial endings, though, is this: five years from now, my friend, we will all say that the ending of Mass Effect 3 was genius! We’ll catch up to it.

I’m not going to say that people feel that way about Lost, but I would say that people feel that way about The Sopranos. Many, many years after the ending of The Sopranos, The Sopranos just ignited a storm of “oh, that was genius! Genius!” “Genius? Are you kidding me? They wimped out! They didn’t have the guts to tell us what they wanted!” Which is the final fate of Tony Soprano. Defenders of that finale said “Yes, they did. Don’t you get it?” and the people who hate it go “Wait, you’re saying that I’m stupid?” And you go into that downward spiral. Years later, the truth of the matter is, the people who hated it then are probably no greater fans of it now, but in the cooling of it all, the cooling of the vitriol, there is some appreciation. There is grudging appreciation in that camp of “I get what he was saying. I get what he was going for.” And, ultimately, what you remember is that “I defined my enjoyment of that series not by that final moment, but by seven, eight seasons of the greatest television show even written.” That’s how we remember The Sopranos. I think that’s how that’s the fans of Lost are going to remember that show. I think that, for better or worse, the final season of that show will be remembered as something of a cautionary tale. I happen to love it. Do I love it as much as the five seasons before? No, but I really respect and like and was moved by what they did. I think, the further we get away from Lost, it will get more defined by the things that it did right and revolutionary versus the issue of audience satisfaction.

I think Mass Effect as a franchise, these three games taken together, I just can’t see how it’s not regarded as anything less than a landmark. There’s so many things to enjoy about these games and this world and the creative accomplishment of this series than just those final moments. When I played those first two games, the narrative arc of it is maybe one of the things I like the least. I love the way it looks, I love the character design, I love these worlds--there’s so much to really enjoy and love about it. Given some time, people will remember all of what they loved about this thing and now the resolution of it all.

Patrick Klepek on Google+

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CaptnGrumbles

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Disappointed that Giant Bomb continues to misrepresent the whole RetakeME3 movement. We don't need a happy ending, we just want an ending that's consistent with the rest of the damned series.

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Tennmuerti

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@Mike76x said:

@Tennmuerti said:

@Mike76x said:

@Hailinel said:

@Mike76x said:

@Hailinel said:

@BabelTower said:

This may or may not have already been mentioned, but to all the people who are completely baffled by the 180 degree turn of the story in the end... Well, there's this theory going around the net about Shepherd having a very sad times in his head. Something that gnaws at the edge of his mind and tries to distract him from the real problem. The theory is that the ending is Shepherd being indoctrinated. It's all in his head. A battle to be controlled or fighting it off. There's more to see on an interesting Youtube video. Just search for Mass Effect 3 Shepherd Indoctrination, or something. This does give some compelling arguments on what it all means, but nothing is certain of course.

There isn't a thread out of the hundred or so Mass Effect 3 ending threads that currently exist on this forum in which the Indoctrination theory isn't mentioned at least seven times. And no, it doesn't answer anything because it doesn't work.

As much as I would love to see the torrent of threads about ME3's ending stop, I would settle for at least one thread in which the Indoctrination theory isn't mentioned at all.

The Indoctrination theory works because they put it there on purpose, and the Illusive Man was supposed to be the final boss.

They left it there to intentionally create confusion over the ending, which is the same reason they cut the dialogue where the Catalyst actually explains things.

They had real endings planned and instead decided to make it intentionally vague.

They also had the Prothean mission cut from the game to be DLC. It was not created after the game was finished.

It's in the Mass Effect 3: Final Hours documentary

...Fuck it, I give up up. Arguing with Indoctrination theorists is like talking to a brick wall.

Indoctrination isn't a theory, it was written into the script along with an Illusive Man boss battle and a more informative discussion with the catalyst.

It was decided to mash everything together and remove dialogue so the real ending wouldn't be clear, because Casey Hudson wanted to deliberately troll ME fans.

Most of the above is speculation. You take facts in FH as a basis true, but then assign them intentions of writers on your own.Mass Effect 3: Final Hours documentory does not specify the writers intentions fully one way or another. In just the same way the Final Hours can be used to completely deconstruct the indoctrination theory. Indoctrination part was there, they took it out. Therefore all speculation on Shepard being indoctrinated is by default false, since Bioware decided they did not want to go him being indoctrinated route.See? They had no plans on post ending DLC. Hence the end of ME3 is what it is, if your theory is that it is indoctrination then the galaxy is not even saved and Reapers still be reaping, seeing as it's all a dream from the lazor to you waking yp. This makes ME3 ending even worse, considering now there is no real ending. Endings were cut due to the fact that they did not have their shit together towards the end and were limited by time. Anything infered further is speculation. "You don't need to know the answers to the mass effect universe. So we intentionally left those out"Hence the cut down "high level" conversation with starchild. This just reads like: "we dumbed down the endings to keep them accessible." If anything Final Hours shows just how much of a giant clusterfuck ME3 ending process was, with shit being undecided right up untill the end. Stuff was getting cut and changed everywhere. This isn't some single coherent vision, where they intentinally seeded speculation on indoctrination. This is hooks on Shep indoctrination being left over, when they decided to go in a different direction.

1. Casey Hudson has said himself he wanted the ending to be unclear:

"I didn’t want the game to be forgettable, and even right down to the sort of polarizing reaction that the ends have had with people–debating what the endings mean and what’s going to happen next, and what situation are the characters left in. That to me is part of what’s exciting about this story. There has always been a little bit of mystery there and a little bit of interpretation, and it’s a story that people can talk about after the fact."

2. They didn't take out the indoctrination, it's all there they just don't mention so it adds to the lack of clarity. If Shepard wasn't indoctrinated he wouldn't wake up back on Earth in the Destroy ending.

3. From Final Hours: "Mass Effect 3 is finished and while there is more work to do on downloadable content, the detachment process has begun."

From Ashes DLC? I was already in the game and removed. By the way: "We would never take stuff out of the core game and only have it in DLC." ~Casey Hudson

1. This has nothing to do with indoctrination.
You are continuing to assign writer intent to a diffrent fact. Casey is talking about the ending overall. This can be simply referring to lack of closure people felt.
Connecting such directly with indoctrination theory is like i said before speculation.
 
2. They said indoctrination sequence was there. They took it out.
Why of taking it out is stated that sequence was taken out because it was a bad game mechanic.
Not because they wanted less clarity.
AGAIN you keep doing the same shit. Of continuing actual facts with your own assumptions.
Fuck, come on!
i'll even post the quote here:

And even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepard's movement and fall under full reaper control. (This sequence was dropped because the gaemplay mechanic proved too troublesome to implement alongside dialogue choices). 

on your other note:

If Shepard wasn't indoctrinated he wouldn't wake up back on Earth in the Destroy ending.

He can wake up on Earth just fine after the destroy ending. Citadel falls. Shepard is in the rubble.
Ot he is waking up on a part of the Citadel in the rubble, without it falling. Citadel has manmade structures build on top of the Citadel base itself.
There are plenty of explanations, just as if not more so plausible then the indoctrination theory.

3. And? Continue your point. What does this have to do with what I said? Why are you bringing up From Ashes?
 

@Mike76x

said:

Also, mass relays are supposed to have about the same explosive energy as a star going supernova, which means no more earth (and pretty much every other planet), so I just don't buy the three choices at the end being canon.

This is only if they explode conventionally. It is easily explained away by the energy dispersal simply destroying them in a more controlled reaction.

But when they explode they are still blasting the entire galaxy all at once with energy.

They aren't controlled explosions they are changed explosions.

How do you turn super destructive explodey energy into that "taste the rainbow" magic energy?

Also in one ending the Citadel survives. The Citadel is a mass relay with a mass relay inside it.

No Caption Provided
So they are changed explosions, ayep. It's still a possibility.
Energy and it's release comes in many forms. Not necessarily destructive or harmfull.
 
The mass relays explode so violently because they handle an immense amount of energy.
Said energy can be used to fuel the magic wave/beam. It is in fact logical to assume so, becuse it is a part necessary for the process to function in the first place, insane amounts of energy.
So the main force is spent in said dispersal. And relays explode. But no longer with violence enough to kill the star system they are in, due to most of energy being spent (focused in a different way). Simple.
 
Aside from being a mass relay the Citadel is an insanely complex and advanced structure, we in fact know very little of.
It's an originator of the process. All it's mass effect energy is easily consumed in order to triger the process.
It's a Deus Ex Machina, it could fart rainbow unicorns and you would not be able to say "hold up it can't so that"
Hence yet another stroke of bad in the tapestry of the ending.
 
It's a fucking dumb ending in more ways then one.
This is just one in a loooong line of plotholes with the ending.
I don't even know why the fuck im trying to explain said plot hole in the firstplace, this is why i should have learned to stay away from godamn ending discussions after several weeks. UGH.
But assuming the entire galaxy dies because of relay explosion is not certain. It's not fact. 

@Thyson

said:

@Tennmuerti: Hey, I completely agree that the human reaper was complete bullshit, and it was because of that last boss that Mass Effect 2 was not my favorite game that year. The idea of breaking down humans to make a reaper makes sense because reapers are synthetic and organic in nature, but it was the explanation that the form of the reaper had to be similar to the ingredient (humans) that made me dislike the end boss. I meant to say that their writing talent in general is great compared to other developers, which includes their ability to create great characters even with somewhat simplistic stories, as you said. I still believe in Bioware, and I think living up to everyone's expectations was going to be hard from the beginning, especially with all the different paths you can take over the course of the three games.

I still think that the secret scene after you decide to kill the reapers, where a soldier, who is wearing the same looking armor Shepard is wearing as he bumbles his way to toward the ending, and also has a N7 dog tag around his neck (conveniently facing the camera), appears to be Shepard (can't see the face of the individual, but come on :P). There is no explanation for this scene, even if you think that the indoctrination theory is about people reading too much into something that isn't there. The scene exists.

We will know what Bioware's plans are when their Mass Effect 3 panel is held this week at PAX. I personally hope the indoctrination theory is correct, and not because I think it would be the best possible ending that Bioware could have written to put a cap on Shepard's story, but because there is at least the possibility of something that is better than the three awful choices.


Exactly Bioware is not infalible. They fuck up just like anybody.
In fact this is what people said after DA2. Well this is one bad egg, lets give them the benefit of doubt. Now we get ME3 ending.
 
They have always made quite straighforward stories. Such incredible subtlety as indoctrination is unprecedented in their portfolio.
Suddenly they go out of their way to hit a super high mark, while risking pissing everyone off? While marketing it to simpler and simpler audiences.... come on.
 
It is Shepard.
Never argued otherwise. The armor in the scene even changes if you are male or female.
It is not a definite supportive pillar for indoctrination theory.
Plenty of other ways for it to happen in reality.
People have already done so.
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@Tennmuerti said:

@Thyson said:

@Tennmuerti: Can you explain the plotholes in the indoctrination theory? It certainly can't be as horrible as what we were given.

If Bioware never tells us what happened, then the indoctrination theory could be correct, but so can many other interpretations because they wanted the ending to be open to different perspectives (like the sopranos ending, except worse because almost everything doesn't make sense).

Also, mass relays are supposed to have about the same explosive energy as a star going supernova, which means no more earth (and pretty much every other planet), so I just don't buy the three choices at the end being canon.

Sorry dude, I'm honestly kind of personally sic of the ME3 ending talk and indoctrination theory especially.
If you want do some searches on these boards for people advancing their arguments against the theory. There are discussions galore about this on the internet, official boards etc.
There are plenty looooong writups that dissasemble the indoctrination theory point by point. Paragraphs.

I just wanted to point out that yes most people have heard the theory and it's nothing new to people who are dissatisfied with the ending.
A lot of people i see posting here have been part of ME3 ending dsicussions when it came out so are mostly aware of the indoctrination theory.


My personal opinion?
I don't believe it. it's too much conjecture that is easily explained in plenty other ways. Plenty of supposed proof is just a game being a game. People are grasping at straws. (it's a denial stage)
Especially since apperently the enging parts of the game were reworked and recut a bunch, right before game shipping.
It's a cool theory, but that is all it is at best.

At worst it all looks delusional from the side.
I've seen people raving about how indoctrination is all true and is factual because they are the people who unlike others are smart and paid attention to ME fiction and signs. Meanwhile those same people show ignorance of basic ME lore, get their undisputable facts completely wrong, and are generally just eating up the work the actaul few have done for them, while claiming supperior intelectual prowess and understanding of deeper meaning; having not even come to indoc. theory by themselves. It honestly looks comical.

Thinking most realistically about how shit works, this is not a move a company like Bioware/EA would risk. (indoctrination ending being their goal that is)
To believe that they would hinge their bets on people finding deeper indoctrination meaning, while risking dissatisfaction from the majority (exactly what happened), when the entire series has been trying to chase after more general appeal after ME1, is simply being naive.
This is just not how big business operates.
(and again post release information from sources like Final Hours of ME3 make the writing of the end look like a mess at the end of a deadline, not a single coherent strong artistic vision.)

But most importantly to me personally; if the indoctrination theory is true it nullifies the entire ending more so then if you take it at face value. If it is all a dream from the time you get lazered and then wake up in rubble then ... well nothing in between really hapenned it's just in your head. If Reapers have not even been defeated and there is no ending. Which honstly would make me dislike Bioware even more.

Also, mass relays are supposed to have about the same explosive energy as a star going supernova, which means no more earth (and pretty much every other planet), so I just don't buy the three choices at the end being canon.

This is only if they explode conventionally. It is easily explained away by the energy dispersal simply destroying them in a more controlled reaction.

But when they explode they are still blasting the entire galaxy all at once with energy.

They aren't controlled explosions they are changed explosions.

How do you turn super destructive explodey energy into that "taste the rainbow" magic energy?

Also in one ending the Citadel survives. The Citadel is a mass relay with a mass relay inside it.

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Mike76x

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@Tennmuerti said:

@Mike76x said:

@Hailinel said:

@Mike76x said:

@Hailinel said:

@BabelTower said:

This may or may not have already been mentioned, but to all the people who are completely baffled by the 180 degree turn of the story in the end... Well, there's this theory going around the net about Shepherd having a very sad times in his head. Something that gnaws at the edge of his mind and tries to distract him from the real problem. The theory is that the ending is Shepherd being indoctrinated. It's all in his head. A battle to be controlled or fighting it off. There's more to see on an interesting Youtube video. Just search for Mass Effect 3 Shepherd Indoctrination, or something. This does give some compelling arguments on what it all means, but nothing is certain of course.

There isn't a thread out of the hundred or so Mass Effect 3 ending threads that currently exist on this forum in which the Indoctrination theory isn't mentioned at least seven times. And no, it doesn't answer anything because it doesn't work.

As much as I would love to see the torrent of threads about ME3's ending stop, I would settle for at least one thread in which the Indoctrination theory isn't mentioned at all.

The Indoctrination theory works because they put it there on purpose, and the Illusive Man was supposed to be the final boss.

They left it there to intentionally create confusion over the ending, which is the same reason they cut the dialogue where the Catalyst actually explains things.

They had real endings planned and instead decided to make it intentionally vague.

They also had the Prothean mission cut from the game to be DLC. It was not created after the game was finished.

It's in the Mass Effect 3: Final Hours documentary

...Fuck it, I give up up. Arguing with Indoctrination theorists is like talking to a brick wall.

Indoctrination isn't a theory, it was written into the script along with an Illusive Man boss battle and a more informative discussion with the catalyst.

It was decided to mash everything together and remove dialogue so the real ending wouldn't be clear, because Casey Hudson wanted to deliberately troll ME fans.

Most of the above is speculation. You take facts in FH as a basis true, but then assign them intentions of writers on your own.Mass Effect 3: Final Hours documentory does not specify the writers intentions fully one way or another. In just the same way the Final Hours can be used to completely deconstruct the indoctrination theory. Indoctrination part was there, they took it out. Therefore all speculation on Shepard being indoctrinated is by default false, since Bioware decided they did not want to go him being indoctrinated route.See? They had no plans on post ending DLC. Hence the end of ME3 is what it is, if your theory is that it is indoctrination then the galaxy is not even saved and Reapers still be reaping, seeing as it's all a dream from the lazor to you waking yp. This makes ME3 ending even worse, considering now there is no real ending. Endings were cut due to the fact that they did not have their shit together towards the end and were limited by time. Anything infered further is speculation. "You don't need to know the answers to the mass effect universe. So we intentionally left those out"Hence the cut down "high level" conversation with starchild. This just reads like: "we dumbed down the endings to keep them accessible." If anything Final Hours shows just how much of a giant clusterfuck ME3 ending process was, with shit being undecided right up untill the end. Stuff was getting cut and changed everywhere. This isn't some single coherent vision, where they intentinally seeded speculation on indoctrination. This is hooks on Shep indoctrination being left over, when they decided to go in a different direction.

1. Casey Hudson has said himself he wanted the ending to be unclear:

"I didn’t want the game to be forgettable, and even right down to the sort of polarizing reaction that the ends have had with people–debating what the endings mean and what’s going to happen next, and what situation are the characters left in. That to me is part of what’s exciting about this story. There has always been a little bit of mystery there and a little bit of interpretation, and it’s a story that people can talk about after the fact."

2. They didn't take out the indoctrination, it's all there they just don't mention so it adds to the lack of clarity. If Shepard wasn't indoctrinated he wouldn't wake up back on Earth in the Destroy ending.

3. From Final Hours: "Mass Effect 3 is finished and while there is more work to do on downloadable content, the detachment process has begun."

From Ashes DLC? I was already in the game and removed. By the way: "We would never take stuff out of the core game and only have it in DLC." ~Casey Hudson

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@Tennmuerti: Hey, I completely agree that the human reaper was complete bullshit, and it was because of that last boss that Mass Effect 2 was not my favorite game that year. The idea of breaking down humans to make a reaper makes sense because reapers are synthetic and organic in nature, but it was the explanation that the form of the reaper had to be similar to the ingredient (humans) that made me dislike the end boss. I meant to say that their writing talent in general is great compared to other developers, which includes their ability to create great characters even with somewhat simplistic stories, as you said. I still believe in Bioware, and I think living up to everyone's expectations was going to be hard from the beginning, especially with all the different paths you can take over the course of the three games.

I still think that the secret scene after you decide to kill the reapers, where a soldier, who is wearing the same looking armor Shepard is wearing as he bumbles his way to toward the ending, and also has a N7 dog tag around his neck (conveniently facing the camera), appears to be Shepard (can't see the face of the individual, but come on :P). There is no explanation for this scene, even if you think that the indoctrination theory is about people reading too much into something that isn't there. The scene exists.

We will know what Bioware's plans are when their Mass Effect 3 panel is held this week at PAX. I personally hope the indoctrination theory is correct, and not because I think it would be the best possible ending that Bioware could have written to put a cap on Shepard's story, but because there is at least the possibility of something that is better than the three awful choices.

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The Mass Effect series have been like experiencing a grand and epic symphony that keeps building to what you think is a crescendo...then the conductor cuts off the orchestra 5 minutes early, craps himself, and the lights go out.

No matter how good the first two and a half movements are, that last act is the one that you remember most vividly. It's hard not to let it sour the whole experience.

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@MormonWarrior: I'm sorry, I should really be clear.  I'm making a 'this is what you all should have done' argument, although I'd suggest now you vote with your dollars and not buy DLC.  Communicate to Bioware that you won't support them with your money by purchasing their games or DLC.  But in general, I'm trying to say this is why buying games sight-unseen (that's what preordering is) is not good.  If you had waited that out and waited to see what people said about the game maybe you wouldn't have bought it, and instead of being in your position where you feel you didn't get what you paid for, you could feel satisfied with an extra $60 in your pocket.  I feel like people should have seen this coming with Dragon Age 2, the Bioware C&C thingy and the multiplayer.  All of those things are specifically why I didn't pre-order or buy the game when it came out, and all of this ending talk is why I won't buy the game until I can pick it up for $20 new. 
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@MormonWarrior said:

@mfpantst said:

Vote with your dollars guys, vote with your dollars. Haven't bought this game yet, won't for a while, and won't when I don't have to spend so much to finish the game. Vote with your dollars.

Kinda hard to do when you preordered it and played through it to come to the conclusion that the ending is total bullcrap. Plus, it's the end of a trilogy. How the heck am I supposed to vote with my dollars? If they make DLC that actually fixes the ending, I'd buy anything else they put out as well I guess.

Then I guess you've put yourself in a place that you can't fight what they give?  Stop pre-ordering, put some money in a shoebox so you can decide to either go buy the game or not when it comes out.  I hear what you're saying, it seems like you've no choice and finishing the trilogy makes perfect sense, but you've also allowed yourself to be marketed into an automatic customer.  I'm shocked you would expect any company you do business with in that manner to make rational choices when you've let marketing and hype turn you into an irrational customer.
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@mfpantst said:

Vote with your dollars guys, vote with your dollars. Haven't bought this game yet, won't for a while, and won't when I don't have to spend so much to finish the game. Vote with your dollars.

Kinda hard to do when you preordered it and played through it to come to the conclusion that the ending is total bullcrap. Plus, it's the end of a trilogy. How the heck am I supposed to vote with my dollars? If they make DLC that actually fixes the ending, I'd buy anything else they put out as well I guess.

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@2HeadedNinja: Your English is fantastic, actually. Don't worry about that. And you make many very good points.

To me the most clear sign of how widespread the disappointment for the ending is can be found on Amazon.com and Metacritic. The responses to games are often very hyperbolic on the reviews on these sites, but usually the fans who loved something versus the angry fanboys will even out to a positive score. (i.e. if the ending was decent, but still left some people hanging, ME3 would probably have four stars on Amazon but that's respectable). The fact that there aren't even CLOSE to enough positive reviews to buffer the negative shows just how much this ending ticked people off.

The fans are totally right about this one, and I wish they weren't. The ending soured me so much to the experience that I sold my collector's edition of the game right after beating it. Here's hoping BioWare actually fixes it, or addresses the ending better than this bullcrap about "clarifying." The ending doesn't need clarification; it needs a rewrite.

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You know what? I am sick and tired of the paternalistic rhetoric game journalists use when talking about the people who actually buy games. This whole incident has reminded me how most game related websites are just an extension of the marketing machine of the publishers. They way they all seem to be doing damage control for EA right now tells me as much.

This is trade journalism at its worst. I am glad I don't pay for content like this.

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@Thyson said:

@Pseudonymous: I'm sorry, but I still have faith in Bioware. I don't buy the three endings being canon, period. A mass relay is supposed to have about the same explosive energy as a star going supernova, so that would mean every single planet we've visited would have been vaporized (including earth). Bioware has always been known for their amazing stories and even in their worst games there is some great/good writing.

I don't think the same writing team behind Mass Effect 2 could botch the ending to their best ip so badly.

That same team decided that a giant terminator end boss made sense as did human slurpies to build him. In ME2
A lot of people also disliked Bioware's story in DA2 and though quite lowly of it.

For that matter Bioware always had great characters, but their actual overall stories were always quite simplistic and always follow a very fammiliar basic pattern.
The actual overall stories were rarely anything to write home about, (unless you take it way back to BG2). Characters on the other hand are excelent imo

Relays do not necessarily explode with the same intensity with the ray going through them, they could be simply breaking down and their energy which is normally what fuels the explostion is used instead to fuel the signal/wave.
Not that the ending isn't a terrible mess overall on multiple levels.
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I feel a lot of people are still missing the biggest problem with the ending: Where the hell was Joker going?! This is really the only issue that Bioware needs to explain. Explain what was happening during Shepard's journey up in the Citadel that would cause Joker to pick up the squad and book it out of the system. What did they find out that we didn't? What was Joker so afraid of that he would abandon Shepard, his commander, in his/her most dire moment?

THIS is the biggest problem, and honestly, if anything, THIS is what Bioware needs to focus on to fix at least SOME of the dissatisfaction with the ending. If they're gonna use Joker/EDI/Normandy stranded on some strange planet as a sign of hope for the future, they need to explain how and why the hell we got there in the first place.

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Tennmuerti

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@Thyson said:

@Tennmuerti: Can you explain the plotholes in the indoctrination theory? It certainly can't be as horrible as what we were given.

If Bioware never tells us what happened, then the indoctrination theory could be correct, but so can many other interpretations because they wanted the ending to be open to different perspectives (like the sopranos ending, except worse because almost everything doesn't make sense).

Also, mass relays are supposed to have about the same explosive energy as a star going supernova, which means no more earth (and pretty much every other planet), so I just don't buy the three choices at the end being canon.

Sorry dude, I'm honestly kind of personally sic of the ME3 ending talk and indoctrination theory especially.
If you want do some searches on these boards for people advancing their arguments against the theory. There are discussions galore about this on the internet, official boards etc.
There are plenty looooong writups that dissasemble the indoctrination theory point by point. Paragraphs.

I just wanted to point out that yes most people have heard the theory and it's nothing new to people who are dissatisfied with the ending.
A lot of people i see posting here have been part of ME3 ending dsicussions when it came out so are mostly aware of the indoctrination theory.
 

My personal opinion?
I don't believe it. it's too much conjecture that is easily explained in plenty other ways. Plenty of supposed proof is just a game being a game. People are grasping at straws. (it's a denial stage)
Especially since apperently the enging parts of the game were reworked and recut a bunch, right before game shipping.
It's a cool theory, but that is all it is at best.

At worst it all looks delusional from the side.
I've seen people raving about how indoctrination is all true and is factual because they are the people who unlike others are smart and paid attention to ME fiction and signs. Meanwhile those same people show ignorance of basic ME lore, get their undisputable facts completely wrong, and are generally just eating up the work the actaul few have done for them, while claiming supperior intelectual prowess and understanding of deeper meaning; having not even come to indoc. theory by themselves. It honestly looks comical.

Thinking most realistically about how shit works, this is not a move a company like Bioware/EA would risk. (indoctrination ending being their goal that is)
To believe that they would hinge their bets on people finding deeper indoctrination meaning, while risking dissatisfaction from the majority (exactly what happened), when the entire series has been trying to chase after more general appeal after ME1, is simply being naive.
This is just not how big business operates.
(and again post release information from sources like Final Hours of ME3 make the writing of the end look like a mess at the end of a deadline, not a single coherent strong artistic vision.)

But most importantly to me personally; if the indoctrination theory is true it nullifies the entire ending more so then if you take it at face value. If it is all a dream from the time you get lazered and then wake up in rubble then ... well nothing in between really hapenned it's just in your head. If Reapers have not even been defeated and there is no ending. Which honstly would make me dislike Bioware even more.
 

Also, mass relays are supposed to have about the same explosive energy as a star going supernova, which means no more earth (and pretty much every other planet), so I just don't buy the three choices at the end being canon.

This is only if they explode conventionally.
It is easily explained away by the energy dispersal simply destroying them in a more controlled reaction.
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@Pseudonymous: I'm sorry, but I still have faith in Bioware. I don't buy the three endings being canon, period. A mass relay is supposed to have about the same explosive energy as a star going supernova, so that would mean every single planet we've visited would have been vaporized (including earth). Bioware has always been known for their amazing stories and even in their worst games there is some great/good writing.

I don't think the same writing team behind Mass Effect 2 could botch the ending to their best ip so badly.

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I hated Mass Effect 1 but forced myself through it for a save file. I went into Mass Effect 2 very cautiously, and it became one of my favorite games of this generation. Mass Effect 3 was the perfect ending to the series up until you walk into a certain beam and find yourself in poorly constructed ending land. I didn't want a happy ending. With my character arc, I felt that an ending where I sacrificed myself would be the most appropriate. As absurd and shoehorned in as I think the Catalyst is, that wasn't even as big a problem for me as the other issues were. So they put some ridiculous sci-fi inside my ridiculous sci-fi. I can look past that, as abhorrent as it was. What I can't look past are the claims by Bioware since the very first game that your decisions will matter in the end. They don't. Don't get me wrong, I'm not taking anything away from the decisions that I had to make in Mass Effect 3. Choosing to destroy the Geth, then changing my mind and seeing the Quarian fleet decimated and Tali take her own life was one of the most difficult gaming moments I've ever had. I couldn't continue playing after that decision, and didn't pick the game up for a day or so out of guilt. The fact that a game can make me feel that is an amazing feat. However, if you look at the endings in bullet point style, and what impact they have on the ending, it's nearly nonexistent. It all boils down to a number which could mean red, red and blue, or red, blue, and green. The relationships you built with characters from ME2? Yeah, that's a number. This crew member will be 25, this one will be 50. The fact of the matter is, when you build a franchise on two things, then completely throw out those two key elements in the ending, people will be justifiably upset. The decisions you made don't really matter, and the characters you've spent three games getting to know are left out in the ether somewhere. They could make the "your decisions mattered when you were making them" argument for the first problem, but there is no excuse for leaving almost every supporting character without an ending. It would be like the ending to Lost with only Jack's storyline being completed. It's unacceptable. Bioware kept digging and digging until they realized they didn't know how to get to the bottom, so they filled the hole with cement and hoped we wouldn't care.

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Vote with your dollars guys, vote with your dollars.  Haven't bought this game yet, won't for a while, and won't when I don't have to spend so much to finish the game.  Vote with your dollars.

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@Tennmuerti: Can you explain the plotholes in the indoctrination theory? It certainly can't be as horrible as what we were given.

If Bioware never tells us what happened, then the indoctrination theory could be correct, but so can many other interpretations because they wanted the ending to be open to different perspectives (like the sopranos ending, except worse because almost everything doesn't make sense).

Also, mass relays are supposed to have about the same explosive energy as a star going supernova, which means no more earth (and pretty much every other planet), so I just don't buy the three choices at the end being canon.

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Tennmuerti

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@Mike76x said:

@Hailinel said:

@Mike76x said:

@Hailinel said:

@BabelTower said:

This may or may not have already been mentioned, but to all the people who are completely baffled by the 180 degree turn of the story in the end... Well, there's this theory going around the net about Shepherd having a very sad times in his head. Something that gnaws at the edge of his mind and tries to distract him from the real problem. The theory is that the ending is Shepherd being indoctrinated. It's all in his head. A battle to be controlled or fighting it off. There's more to see on an interesting Youtube video. Just search for Mass Effect 3 Shepherd Indoctrination, or something. This does give some compelling arguments on what it all means, but nothing is certain of course.

There isn't a thread out of the hundred or so Mass Effect 3 ending threads that currently exist on this forum in which the Indoctrination theory isn't mentioned at least seven times. And no, it doesn't answer anything because it doesn't work.

As much as I would love to see the torrent of threads about ME3's ending stop, I would settle for at least one thread in which the Indoctrination theory isn't mentioned at all.

The Indoctrination theory works because they put it there on purpose, and the Illusive Man was supposed to be the final boss.

They left it there to intentionally create confusion over the ending, which is the same reason they cut the dialogue where the Catalyst actually explains things.

They had real endings planned and instead decided to make it intentionally vague.

They also had the Prothean mission cut from the game to be DLC. It was not created after the game was finished.

It's in the Mass Effect 3: Final Hours documentary

...Fuck it, I give up up. Arguing with Indoctrination theorists is like talking to a brick wall.

Indoctrination isn't a theory, it was written into the script along with an Illusive Man boss battle and a more informative discussion with the catalyst.

It was decided to mash everything together and remove dialogue so the real ending wouldn't be clear, because Casey Hudson wanted to deliberately troll ME fans.

Most of the above is speculation.
You take facts in FH as a basis true, but then assign them intentions of writers on your own.

Mass Effect 3: Final Hours documentory does not specify the writers intentions fully one way or another.
In just the same way the Final Hours can be used to completely deconstruct the indoctrination theory.

Indoctrination part was there, they took it out.
Therefore all speculation on Shepard being indoctrinated is by default false, since Bioware decided they did not want to go him being indoctrinated route.
See?
 
They had no plans on post ending DLC.
Hence the end of ME3 is what it is, if your theory is that it is indoctrination then the galaxy is not even saved and Reapers still be reaping, seeing as it's all a dream from the lazor to you waking yp. This makes ME3 ending even worse, considering now there is no real ending.
 
Endings were cut due to the fact that they did not have their shit together towards the end and were limited by time.
Anything infered further is speculation.
 
"You don't need to know the answers to the mass effect universe. So we intentionally left those out"
Hence the cut down "high level" conversation with starchild.
This just reads like: "we dumbed down the endings to keep them accessible."
 
If anything Final Hours shows just how much of a giant clusterfuck ME3 ending process was, with shit being undecided right up untill the end.
Stuff was getting cut and changed everywhere.
This isn't some single coherent vision, where they intentinally seeded speculation on indoctrination. This is hooks on Shep indoctrination being left over, when they decided to go in a different direction.
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Good read but I'm wondering why I care about someone at Entertainment Weekly? I feel we should be trying to book interviews with people at Bioware, but perhaps they aren't talking about the endings or t talking about the endings in a way we want them to.

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Hass

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When Mass Effect is hard sci-fi, where does that put Heinlein, Gibson or Lem, you may wonder.

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@Mike76x

And you have full access to this script how and why? Your claims hold no ground without proof, and I highly doubt you'd supply us all with that proof because you simply don't have it. You have a severe case of denial my friend. No offense but your claims are utterly absurd. The risk is too high and Bioware isn't going to risk the company's reputation by "Trolling The Fans" as you so lightly put it. The game sells itself, why would Bioware need any negative attention? All you really have are speculations and hopes....be honest.

I've seen all the Fan made Videos on this theory and still find myself shaking my head "NO" at every one of them. People are going to see what they want to see.

Too much would have to be changed for the "Indoctrination Theory" (Which is only a theory) to work. Seeing as though you are doing all of Bioware's work for them, making this theory "sorta" make sense...This would be Biowares "Easy way out" because you all seem to want Shepard to be just a tool for the Reapers. Be careful what you wish for...

My point:: If you look for something long enough, you will find what you are looking for. Whether it's the truth or not.

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caseyg

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Once again this guy has some insightful comments this time on the indoctrination theory rather than the ending:

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Mike76x

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@Hailinel said:

@Mike76x said:

@Hailinel said:

@BabelTower said:

This may or may not have already been mentioned, but to all the people who are completely baffled by the 180 degree turn of the story in the end... Well, there's this theory going around the net about Shepherd having a very sad times in his head. Something that gnaws at the edge of his mind and tries to distract him from the real problem. The theory is that the ending is Shepherd being indoctrinated. It's all in his head. A battle to be controlled or fighting it off. There's more to see on an interesting Youtube video. Just search for Mass Effect 3 Shepherd Indoctrination, or something. This does give some compelling arguments on what it all means, but nothing is certain of course.

There isn't a thread out of the hundred or so Mass Effect 3 ending threads that currently exist on this forum in which the Indoctrination theory isn't mentioned at least seven times. And no, it doesn't answer anything because it doesn't work.

As much as I would love to see the torrent of threads about ME3's ending stop, I would settle for at least one thread in which the Indoctrination theory isn't mentioned at all.

The Indoctrination theory works because they put it there on purpose, and the Illusive Man was supposed to be the final boss.

They left it there to intentionally create confusion over the ending, which is the same reason they cut the dialogue where the Catalyst actually explains things.

They had real endings planned and instead decided to make it intentionally vague.

They also had the Prothean mission cut from the game to be DLC. It was not created after the game was finished.

It's in the Mass Effect 3: Final Hours documentary

...Fuck it, I give up up. Arguing with Indoctrination theorists is like talking to a brick wall.

Indoctrination isn't a theory, it was written into the script along with an Illusive Man boss battle and a more informative discussion with the catalyst.

It was decided to mash everything together and remove dialogue so the real ending wouldn't be clear, because Casey Hudson wanted to deliberately troll ME fans.

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@Thyson said:

I don't think that many people realize what the ending to Mass Effect 3 actually is.

That entire last sequence is most likely indoctrination.

Harbinger is using the child to get an emotional response out of Shepard (seriously, why in the fuck would the catalyst be the same child that has been hounding Shepard around in his dreams for the entire game), and there is some debate whether the child ever existed, because Shepard is the only one that ever sees him and he isn't noticed by anyone when he climbs into the shuttle (meaning that harbinger and the other reapers have been planing to indoctrinate Shepard for a long time). The "control reapers" option is colored blue, and when you choose it the child smirks before disappearing, while the "destroy reapers and all synthetics" option is colored red and the child disappears almost immediately after Shepard starts shooting. If you decide to shoot and kill all synthetics, then Shepard wakes up on earth having just recovered from the barrage of lasers that were fired before the dream/indoctrination took place.

So yeah, Bioware is most likely telegraphing that the last choice you make, the three pathways, doesn't really mean anything precisely because it never took place--it was all in Shepard's head. If this is not what they intended, then I would be really surprised. I personally hope that the dlc that shows what happened after Shepard wakes up is free, but the day one dlc doesn't give me much confidence.

Hope that cleared everything up.

Stop hallucinating bro & take it for what it is...Very bad writing on Bioware's part.

It seems that people are still in denial of what their eyes have seen (The Crap endings of ME3). I guess seeing really isn't believing for some people.

Example:: I see the number 13 everywhere, only because it's my favorite/lucky number. It doesn't mean it's true, but I would like to think so.

My point:: If you look for something long enough, you will find what you are looking for. Whether it's the truth or not.

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Tennmuerti

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@Thyson said:

I don't think that many people realize what the ending to Mass Effect 3 actually is.

That entire last sequence is most likely indoctrination.

Harbinger is using the child to get an emotional response out of Shepard (seriously, why in the fuck would the catalyst be the same child that has been hounding Shepard around in his dreams for the entire game), and there is some debate whether the child ever existed, because Shepard is the only one that ever sees him and he isn't noticed by anyone when he climbs into the shuttle (meaning that harbinger and the other reapers have been planing to indoctrinate Shepard for a long time). The "control reapers" option is colored blue, and when you choose it the child smirks before disappearing, while the "destroy reapers and all synthetics" option is colored red and the child disappears almost immediately after Shepard starts shooting. If you decide to shoot and kill all synthetics, then Shepard wakes up on earth having just recovered from the barrage of lasers that were fired before the dream/indoctrination took place.

So yeah, Bioware is most likely telegraphing that the last choice you make, the three pathways, doesn't really mean anything precisely because it never took place--it was all in Shepard's head. If this is not what they intended, then I would be really surprised. I personally hope that the dlc that shows what happened after Shepard wakes up is free, but the day one dlc doesn't give me much confidence.

Hope that cleared everything up.

Most people in this thread heard the indoctrination theory dozens of times.
And it is mostly found wanting, by a lot of people.
It has been discussed to death. It has more plotholes then the actual ending. If true it actually makes the ending worse on a narative level, because then there is none.
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umdesch4

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@Klei said:

People shouldn't bitch about the ending. You don't like it, fine, but it's not yours to change. Want to write a better story? Write a fucking book.

Yup, and some of us could have written and published a book with the time and money spent on Mass Effect over the years. I should have done that, I suppose, but it's too late now. Live and learn. At least the next time I have the option to go buy and play a story-based Bioware game, I'll go work on my book instead. Thanks for the advice.

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umdesch4

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@Mike76x said:

The catalyst said it created the reapers to kill organics, so organics wouldn't be killed by synthetics....like the reapers. IT'S STUPID.

Amen. I'm sure everyone has their own personal #1 issue with the ending, and this is mine. A piece of circular logic that is so blatant that I smacked my forehead the moment that piece of dialog was delivered.

Also, as part of this issue, is the fact that Sheppard for the first 150 hours of the game (at least the way I played him) called bullshit on every bit of nonsense ever spouted by another character, but in this instance where even my 12-year-old nephew watched and went "so they're killing you to save you from being killed? That's ridiculous", Sheppard suddenly has nothing to say...

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I think there was way to much hand holding. The was a part of the game where you could not kill that guy who takes that prothien data on theasa. I would shot him and he takes no damage it was like the game machinics took over and the hand hold dragging you along the rabbit whole began. I reloaded and even cheated and could not kill the guy and what got more frustrating is that you go back up to your ship waiting at the coms to say missin failed. Like some dramatic event beyond your control has just taken place. Which was infact what was happening bioware was taking over your flow, your future, and your effect on the out come. That wasn't even the end content. In the end I had edi and tali then as I ran for the beacon they some how left me to run a cross open ground to go back up to the Normandy and escape through the mass effect relay? That made no sense ? We are on a suicide mission you don't just bail on the savor of your home world tali or gave edi a chance at existing. Hey no return ending I am ok with that but some things don't get to be so senseless on the way there. The journey with broken logic out of character happenings is where I got most frustrated with. As for entitled ending I believe that the A B C D got mixed up. Who is with you? how far did they get ? where did they go? and are they and you alive? These basic ending questions are where bioware failed. But I remain believing the biggest reason is when EA bought bioware and 18month rushed this game out. Yes it looks good, what's with multiplayer, but the multi linear story telling and embellishment was left on the ideas table without proper implementation. Tali home world was good I might add I reloaded to see the full spectrium and wow to tali off a cliff.

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caseyg

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No Caption Provided

Hey Patrick,

Just a little diagram to help you out. Feel free to pass it on to all the other "game journalists" out there.

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@Sooty said:

The reason why so many gaming "journalists" are citing fan entitlement is because they don't want to upset their buddy status with BioWare and/or EA. It could risk them getting review copies of games.

That's the only reason I can think of for such ignorance. Don't get me wrong the idiots demanding a new ending are indeed acting entitled, but I still think people are throwing that word around far too easily lately.

Well, that and said journalists just trying to act above the common gamer because they have a job writing for some website.

That's my feeling on all this. EA is huge. EA is sleezy. EA has it's hands in many, many, many pockets. Even Giantbomb can't do anything to ruin their relationship with EA; they still has people in the lower echelons that are worth talking to and GB doesn't want to be cut off from that kind of access by angering the giant overlords.

It's a uncomfortable balance between both the publishers and the journalists and it sucks. It's really everyone's fault.

Personally, I don't even care about the endings. I had already thought about holding off on ME3 when it was announced to be forced Origin, and I solidified that decision when I heard about the abusive day one DLC. Then when I heard that there was a splash screen after the end credits that advertises DLC, I was convinced to never to touch an EA product again.

This anger is much more than just the endings, it was just the last straw in a long line of 15 years of customer abuse.

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EXTomar

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I don't believe this has been an issue with "player entitlement" but with a developer promsing something they didn't deliver on. This has happened before where Fable 3 is an example I can think of off the top of my head where it feels like the difference with Mass Effect 3 is the degree.

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This article is interesting. I wish Patrick would have represented fan complaints better, though.

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@Thyson said:

I don't think that many people realize what the ending to Mass Effect 3 actually is.

That entire last sequence is most likely indoctrination.

Harbinger is using the child to get an emotional response out of Shepard (seriously, why in the fuck would the catalyst be the same child that has been hounding Shepard around in his dreams for the entire game), and there is some debate whether the child ever existed, because Shepard is the only one that ever sees him and he isn't noticed by anyone when he climbs into the shuttle (meaning that harbinger and the other reapers have been planing to indoctrinate Shepard for a long time). The "control reapers" option is colored blue, and when you choose it the child smirks before disappearing, while the "destroy reapers and all synthetics" option is colored red and the child disappears almost immediately after Shepard starts shooting. If you decide to shoot and kill all synthetics, then Shepard wakes up on earth having just recovered from the barrage of lasers that were fired before the dream/indoctrination took place.

So yeah, Bioware is most likely telegraphing that the last choice you make, the three pathways, doesn't really mean anything precisely because it never took place--it was all in Shepard's head. If this is not what they intended, then I would be really surprised. I personally hope that the dlc that shows what happened after Shepard wakes up is free, but the day one dlc doesn't give me much confidence.

Hope that cleared everything up.

The Bad ending of Silent Hill on PSX did something similar. It ends with showing the protagonist bleeding to death in his car, promoting the idea that the entire game was a hallucination or dream before he finally dies.

But that is why they call it the "Bad" ending. It's the net result of the player doing everything wrong. You can go back into the game, improve upon your decisions, and score a better ending. One more fitting of the effort you put forth.

So, while the Indoctrination Theory is cool to ponder, it is no better an ending than the one we take at face value.

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I don't think that many people realize what the ending to Mass Effect 3 actually is.

That entire last sequence is most likely indoctrination.

Harbinger is using the child to get an emotional response out of Shepard (seriously, why in the fuck would the catalyst be the same child that has been hounding Shepard around in his dreams for the entire game), and there is some debate whether the child ever existed, because Shepard is the only one that ever sees him and he isn't noticed by anyone when he climbs into the shuttle (meaning that harbinger and the other reapers have been planing to indoctrinate Shepard for a long time). The "control reapers" option is colored blue, and when you choose it the child smirks before disappearing, while the "destroy reapers and all synthetics" option is colored red and the child disappears almost immediately after Shepard starts shooting. If you decide to shoot and kill all synthetics, then Shepard wakes up on earth having just recovered from the barrage of lasers that were fired before the dream/indoctrination took place.

So yeah, Bioware is most likely telegraphing that the last choice you make, the three pathways, doesn't really mean anything precisely because it never took place--it was all in Shepard's head. If this is not what they intended, then I would be really surprised. I personally hope that the dlc that shows what happened after Shepard wakes up is free, but the day one dlc doesn't give me much confidence.

Hope that cleared everything up.

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redgonzo

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happy endings

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Bourbon_Warrior

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The real ending

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@Bakaneko said:

Not a great article, BTW... It really was too long in the sense that it expended a lot of words on exploring very few concepts or concerns. Also, in that it was essentially two people talking about what they thought other people were talking about about a game/movie... I try to avoid conversations like that since my college days 20 years ago.

I'll summarize my issue with the ending here. I played 2 7/8 games that were strictly space opera: gun fights, humanoid aliens that largely mirrored narrow aspects of the human condition, space battles, action action action... Then at the end, they thought they were writing something high concept akin to 2001 A Space Odyssey and went for a massive tonal shift, and the dilemma they proposed wasn't particular thought provoking OR "bittersweet". It largely was just "puzzling," a non-sequitur there mainly just there to unsettle you. That's a problem with a lot of modern drama writing, that they think that's clever. High Concept Sci-Fi is hard to do, and they didn't succeed.

Oh hell, who am I kidding? I didn't like the ending because it essentially made me realize I'd invested 3 games and 120+ hours into what was essentially Mannequin 3: Seth Green Gets Some.

This demands reposting. Well-done!

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@strings19: I agree about RDR, pretty much any Rockstar games have great endings. But RDR wow! When you started controlling Jack and you hear the gunshot in the distance I gave the TV a slow clap.

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@Diachron said:

@JasonGeorge said:

@Diachron said:

Well I pushed to the end faster than I would have normally because I didn't think I'd be able to remain spoiler free much longer.

And now that it's over.. I have to say-- I was fine with the end. In fact, the more I mull it over, the more I like it.

I'll never know to what extent I've been swayed by the sheer force of the hype (expecting the worst). It's also true that I tend to be pretty forgiving of endings in general (the less explicitly they're written, then more room I have to make up my own resolutions).

I guess I shouldn't say this out loud-- I may be lynched! ;^)

Nope I'm glad you liked the ending, I didn't, though I suspect I hated it less than most people. But kudos to you for not calling people entitled, crybabies, or whiners for expressing their opinion.

Just the opposite-- I can see where much of the heat is coming from. And now that I'm finally free to read all the details, I can dive into the counter-arguments to the ending. There's a lot of good points made that I hope don't get lost in general rage.

For my own part, what I like about the end is the room it gives me to connect my own dots, and to leave certain dots unconnected. I often feel boxed in by neat resolutions, and I think the attempted scale of the ending is appropriate to the vast scale of the life/death cycles in the game itself.

What I can't imagine however, is that BioWare thought that an ending this abstract would be popular. I'm very curious to see where this all goes.

The issue is that the abstract part of the ending is one of the dumbest thing I've ever seen. It's pseudo "high-minded", it's not well presented and it doesn't make any sense.

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benspyda

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They should have got Hideo Kojima to write their ending.

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honkyjesus

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Way to take a stand and talk about Mass Effect more.

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@JasonGeorge said:

@Diachron said:

Well I pushed to the end faster than I would have normally because I didn't think I'd be able to remain spoiler free much longer.

And now that it's over.. I have to say-- I was fine with the end. In fact, the more I mull it over, the more I like it.

I'll never know to what extent I've been swayed by the sheer force of the hype (expecting the worst). It's also true that I tend to be pretty forgiving of endings in general (the less explicitly they're written, then more room I have to make up my own resolutions).

I guess I shouldn't say this out loud-- I may be lynched! ;^)

Nope I'm glad you liked the ending, I didn't, though I suspect I hated it less than most people. But kudos to you for not calling people entitled, crybabies, or whiners for expressing their opinion.

Just the opposite-- I can see where much of the heat is coming from. And now that I'm finally free to read all the details, I can dive into the counter-arguments to the ending. There's a lot of good points made that I hope don't get lost in general rage.

For my own part, what I like about the end is the room it gives me to connect my own dots, and to leave certain dots unconnected. I often feel boxed in by neat resolutions, and I think the attempted scale of the ending is appropriate to the vast scale of the life/death cycles in the game itself.

What I can't imagine however, is that BioWare thought that an ending this abstract would be popular. I'm very curious to see where this all goes.

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Chubbaluphigous

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I really appreciate what Patrick is doing with this story, but there is too much emphasis on the "happy ending" aspect. I don't know if it is because it is an easier article to write or just a more interesting one. For me the absolute breaking point of the ending is misuse of the technological singularity and the delivery mechanism for it. It is a way over done Sci Fi cliche, and doesn't logically fit in the Mass Effect Universe. I am completely fine with an open ended bittersweet ending as long as everything makes sense and is executed well. Instead at the end Bioware dropped its pants and started doing Spirit Fingers while going on about Jazz Hands.

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if they make some kind of epilogue dlc it better be free at least or ill have a hard time buying from Bioware ever again

if they make some dlc that deals with side stuff like playing as anderson on earth or something i would be down for that

if they happen to make epilogue dlc and make it free i would be down for paying for side story dlc.

they dont have to, but it would be nice.

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@bucky: Yes, but that question was asked assuming the players did not get the "happy ending" that they wanted and they feel entitled to a "happy ending". This question was asked based on a context that is already flawed, thus the response will also try to answer a point that is entirely not the main cause of the problem. However, because it is answering "entitlement" people will feel that it is addressing the real problem at hand. It is basically asking questions that tries to lead the person into giving an answer the interviewer wants instead of the actual truth.

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@Diachron said:

Well I pushed to the end faster than I would have normally because I didn't think I'd be able to remain spoiler free much longer.

And now that it's over.. I have to say-- I was fine with the end. In fact, the more I mull it over, the more I like it.

I'll never know to what extent I've been swayed by the sheer force of the hype (expecting the worst). It's also true that I tend to be pretty forgiving of endings in general (the less explicitly they're written, then more room I have to make up my own resolutions).

I guess I shouldn't say this out loud-- I may be lynched! ;^)

Nope I'm glad you liked the ending, I didn't, though I suspect I hated it less than most people. But kudos to you for not calling people entitled, crybabies, or whiners for expressing their opinion.

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Diachron

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Edited By Diachron

Well I pushed to the end faster than I would have normally because I didn't think I'd be able to remain spoiler free much longer.

And now that it's over.. I have to say-- I was fine with the end. In fact, the more I mull it over, the more I like it.

I'll never know to what extent I've been swayed by the sheer force of the hype (expecting the worst). It's also true that I tend to be pretty forgiving of endings in general (the less explicitly they're written, then more room I have to make up my own resolutions).

I guess I shouldn't say this out loud-- I may be lynched! ;^)

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@Najaf said:

@Napalm said:

Yeah, I hate quotes within quotes within quotes as much as the next guy. But these all bring up a valid point or two. I as well have had my faith in the games journalism industry shaken to the core due to the handling of this controversy. For as many brilliant minds the gaming press has, one would think that there would be one notable proponent to the outcry.

And, no, I am not speaking of someone who should come alongside the critical masses and shovel shit in Bioware's face regarding the nitpicky logic holes in the ending. No. What I want is for someone to actually take a few hours, reach out to the communities most well spoken minds on the topic and put an ear to ground on this issue. (there are some here on GB and on neogaf's spoiler thread and I'm sure elsewhere) Then, in response to the massive collective attacks from the gaming press, post an article on a reputable site that not only brings attention to the more sane arguments, but also empathizes with said audience. After all, it would seem that the journalists in the most keen position to understand and give a well worded voice to an audience would be some of the guys here at GB and a few other select sites.

Instead, we are only getting articles from outside of the gaming spectrum in our defense. The California Literary Review, some no name contributor to Forbes who uses his contributory platform to have a small voice and maybe a few bits here and there come to mind. Whereas in the game's press, it is a complete circle jerk of defenders and mockers of the 'entitled'. Even PC Gamer Podcast's spoiler portion where they specifically claimed to stay away from what the remainder of the press had done to the fans, they too were too lazy to actually listen to why fans had issues with the handling of the ending. Not only did they not bother to actually read the quotes from Bioware and instead attempted to paraphrase them, but they got those and many other points of contention flat out wrong. Then their call out to the community to voice their opinions resulted in three voicemails at the end of the show. One was about the Javik DLC debate which to be honest, is the least of people's concern nowadays. And the other two were either mirroring points made throughout the podcast by the contributors or being 'that' guy calling out everyone who did not like the ending as being entitled. They merely used his voicemail to get around their promise to stay civil, and more or less agreed with him in the end. And of course, there was not one voicemail to represent the other side of the coin of course.

I could go on, but this is already entering TLDR territory.

I too have given the benefit of the doubt to the gaming press, hoping they had the integrity to minimise the apparent conflict of interest.

For me it's not about Mass Effect anymore though I applaud the articulate and civil critiques the communities have provided.

This entire debacle has just opened my eyes to how hostile the gaming press is to their audience and the contempt they have for the communities.

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najaf

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@Napalm said:

@Oni said:

@Marokai said:

@Oni said:

This whole thing is beyond ridiculous. I don't know any other industry where valid criticism of a commercial product is widely ridiculed/marginalized by the press. Granted, we're seeing the tide change somewhat, and this article certainly isn't as patronizing/condescending as most, but it still feels incredibly pithy. The thrust seems to be "You can't please everyone with an ending" and "In time people will appreciate it." Empty platitudes. It doesn't really add anything to the conversation, and it's clear Jensen hasn't played it, so why is Patrick even talking to him in the first place? Not to be rude, but there simply isn't anything meaningful someone who's not finished the game can say, which this article plainly demonstrates.

Most of the responses in this thread have been pretty civil as far as I've seen, yet there are still plenty of comments to the tune of "I can't believe these whiny/spoiled/entitled/angry brats." Even Gerstmann's formspring (http://www.formspring.me/jeffgerstmann/q/310270218972699052). We have content creators sticking up for each other (press and developers) because they have a better relationship than with their fans and because both sides know what it's like to be "yelled at" in comments.

Mass Effect 3 is a commercial product. If you are not satisfied, let your voice be heard in a civil manner, as most of you are doing. You're being acknowledged, and maybe someday even the press in their ivory towers will come down to see what the noise is actually about.

What a completely insane formspring response from Jeff, there. Never before have I seen such a controversy in video games that seemed to rely on one side just making shit up out of thin air in how most people are reacting. 90+% of the responses here have been civil and right on point, and have focused on a really critical issue of how completely disconnected the games media seems to be from the general public. That's really important stuff that seems to get sidelined in favor of total copouts like that answer from Jeff. It amazes me so few people on this site seem to realize how much most of the bomb crew seem to hold much of this community in utter contempt and feel perfectly free to shit on their own creation with little reason. This has nothing to do with "entitlement" or people being "whiny," you're absolutely right. This issue is summed up by people in the media and the game industry that use those insults as an excuse to just dismiss anything legitimate. It's the business equivalent of calling something you don't want to seriously respond to "trolling" just so you feel like you can declare victory. Ugh, sorry. I guess I got a little sidetracked there, but this controversy is compounded by so many other problems at this point. It is the easiest thing in the world to beat up on a fanbase and that intellectually lazy nonsense has to stop, and not just with Mass Effect.

I agree that it's super fucked up that the entire media seems to be sporting blinders to the fact (and if you don't think this is a fact, you're really blind) that there is a MASSIVE disconnect between the writers and their audience at the moment. The disappointment and criticism of the ending isn't even the main concern to me anymore, it's that the press is simply not doing their job: They aren't being critical of the things that they're ostensibly critiquing, and they aren't representing their communities (fairly) at all. It should be the fucking press laying it on Bioware for this, not the fans! Of course I don't expect every critic to agree with the movement, but there is almost NO ONE willing to write an article that's calling out Bioware. Don't shit where you eat, I guess. It's incredibly disappointing, and I've lost almost all faith in this entire field of 'journalism' over this debacle. Games writers need to seriously reevaluate their role, their goals and the way they go about their business if this industry wants to be respectable.

Of course, I believe that this is the entire reason why the press isn't really speaking out: It's hard to admit that you're wrong, and maybe even harder to admit that you're not really in touch with your audience at all.

This was what I was saying two weeks ago. I lost all respect for Vox Games and at least a dozen journalists because as soon as Ray put out that message, everybody was condemning the fans and shitting on us. I'm talking hardcore vitriol. It was fucking embarrassing. Never have I seen an entire industry rally against the fans in a manner in which they deceive their entire audience for the sake of, well, I don't know really. Nobody is willing to look at the situation critically, or even just read the dozens upon dozens upon dozens of well-thought out responses and why we feel the way we do. All they do is look at the Facebook Mass Effect 3 comments, assume everybody is an entitled brat and use that as their talking position.

And Jeff's FormSpring response just got my blood boiling. That is the type of bullshit that needs to stop.

Yeah, I hate quotes within quotes within quotes as much as the next guy. But these all bring up a valid point or two. I as well have had my faith in the games journalism industry shaken to the core due to the handling of this controversy. For as many brilliant minds the gaming press has, one would think that there would be one notable proponent to the outcry.

And, no, I am not speaking of someone who should come alongside the critical masses and shovel shit in Bioware's face regarding the nitpicky logic holes in the ending. No. What I want is for someone to actually take a few hours, reach out to the community's most well spoken minds on the topic and put an ear to ground on this issue. (there are some here on GB and on neogaf's spoiler thread and I'm sure elsewhere) Then, in response to the massive collective attacks from the gaming press, post an article on a reputable site that not only brings attention to the more sane arguments, but also empathizes with said audience. After all, it would seem that the journalists in the most keen position to understand and give a well worded voice to an audience would be some of the guys here at GB and a few other select sites.

Instead, we are only getting articles from outside of the gaming spectrum in our defense. The California Literary Review, some no name contributor to Forbes who uses his contributory platform to have a small voice and maybe a few bits here and there come to mind. Whereas in the game's press, it is a complete circle jerk of defenders and mockers of the 'entitled'. Even PC Gamer Podcast's spoiler portion where they specifically claimed to stay away from what the remainder of the press had done to the fans, they too were too lazy to actually listen to why fans had issues with the handling of the ending. Not only did they not bother to actually read the quotes from Bioware and instead attempted to paraphrase them, but they got those and many other points of contention flat out wrong. Then their call out to the community to voice their opinions resulted in three voicemails at the end of the show. One was about the Javik DLC debate which to be honest, is the least of people's concern nowadays. And the other two were either mirroring points made throughout the podcast by the contributors or being 'that' guy calling out everyone who did not like the ending as being entitled. They merely used his voicemail to get around their promise to stay civil, and more or less agreed with him in the end. And of course, there was not one voicemail to represent the other side of the coin.

I could go on, but this is already entering TLDR territory.