I don't think Putin and Russia are that bad

First of all, about breaking international rules: the US has done that many times (Iraq, Afghanistan etc.), with little or no consequences. So why the big deal when Russia takes back Crimea - while most people on Crimea actually wanted that? With little to no bloodshed?

When the US went into middle eastern countries in the name of democracy and freedom (LOL), they left a complete chaos in their wake. Which countries have the highest living standards today? Putin's Russia or the democratic Egypt? People in Russia have it far better. This is because stability must come before democracy.

When you do like the US and leave democracy to a highly unstable society, the result is chaos. We see that clearly today.

Plus, the US has a nasty habbit of fincancing revolutions and uproars in other countries, and then say "Hey, we did nothing, the people did all the work". US tought revolutionaries during the Arabic spring how to spread information and how to start a revolution. They also finance these people with billions of dollars. And when the dictator is gone, these poor countries are forced to take huge loans from the world bank - loans that everyone knows they can't pay back. The result? These countries pay with their natural resources instead - western companies take control of oil, gas, minerals etc. And the world bank is always controlled by an American.

Why do you think the US never attacks North Korea in the name of freedom? Because North Korea doesn't have natural resources of any significance. American and western companies have no business there.

Putin is today the only leader who dares to oppose the US and their EU dogs. He doesn't accept that the US takes on the role as world police and go around the world telling people "this is how you should live", "these are the correct values" and "we lend you a lot of money, so now you have to reform your country exactly as we tell you".

Sure, Putin is corrupt, he makes laws that directly attacks those in Russia who oppose him... but he also gives Russia stability. And he refuses to become one of Obama's dogs. Western media constantly accuses Putin's controlled media for propaganda, but western media itself is ALWAYS sending anti-Russia propaganda.

It seems that as long as you do something in the name of democracy or freedom, you can get away with ANYTHING.

For a satirical article I kept waiting for the punchlines but they never came.

Took time off from yelling at people in Dota to write this little gem, did you?

As someone who has poor understanding of foreign politics, I feel like you also have poor understanding of foreign politics. Also I just think Putin's a dick, but Natalia-chan* is adorable so it's ok probably whatever.

I'm torn between whether this is some really odd spam or a terrible first post.

Of course Russia isn't bad; there are plenty of awesome Russians. But you even explained how terrible Putin is and that taking a former Soviet republic by force was neither the legal or right thing to do. If Crimea was going to be its own country or an addition to Russia, it didn't need Putin rolling in troops to force them into compliance.

You can't just discount any criticism of something because no one and no country is perfect. That's ludicrous. If you have some issue with the US or any other country, take it up with them, but your feelings about them doesn't discredit the overwhelming point of most modern countries that what happened in Ukraine is not alright.

Russia has a great people and history, but the country's crooked leader is still abusing his people and acting reprehensibly in the region. That deserves vocal criticism no matter who you are.

I have a gif I want to post but i'm on my phone. Dammit.

But the US going into Iraq and Afghanistan like they did, without approval from the UN, were right things to do?

Sure, but then why is Obama almost never critisized for breaking international law? Or the NSA/Snowden scandal. I don't say either Putin nor Obama nor the EU dogs are good, but I feel that an unfair amount of critisism today hits Putin. Obama is always treated as the good guy... well, except for on Fox News.

@itwongo: PLEASE COME BACK LATER AND POST THE GIF OKAY???

HEY GUYS I HAVE THIS GIF OF A KANGAROO I THINK IT'S PRETTY SWEET

@sybbie: So, you're saying no one has criticized US President Obama? Or voiced any criticism of the prior President George Bush?

Because if memory serves me correctly, I've pretty much heard over a decade of such criticism. I wouldn't say President Obama is like Putin, as he seems more mistaken or misled than crooked and dictatorial, but he has certainly received plenty of criticism for many of the things he has done.

Many countries do still act in the face of international law, but it doesn't make such actions alright or beyond criticism. As someone with friends in Ukraine and Russia, I don't appreciate anyone minimizing the legitimacy of outrage against what the Kremlin is doing in Ukraine and within Russia itself. These abuses and crimes are real, and they deserve a significant amount of concern and condemnation.

Politics isn't my thing, its just not my cup of protein.

Not the same amount of collective western critisism, no.

Putin's actions are legal by early 20th century standards/thousands of years of history and illegal by modern standards/a few dozen years of history; international law has no policing apparatus and thus is totally ineffectual. Disagree or not what Putin is doing is ultimately going to be good for the rest of the world except the US, the West, and Ukraine; which it's very easy to feel bad for the Ukraine in that case but the other 2 sections don't really need as much power as they have right now.

Probably because the US didn't decide to annex a part of Canada because it believed US citizens were at jeopardy over there. Iraq? The whole world complained about it, and half of the US as well. The small difference was that terrorists hijacked two civilians planes and rammed them into two towers killing a lot of innocent people - which gave the US a bit more of a precedent to go full alert and try to find the guilty parties that were quite vocal about being from Iraq/Afghanistan. It wasn't a great military campaign but there was some inkling of reason in it. Russia is literally sending troops over the border to their neighbor because..? Why? Did the Ukraine attack Russia? Ukraine was having internal issues where people were tired of being under the rule of what was essentially a puppet government. There was absolutely no reason for Russia to intervene politically, much less send armed forces over the border.

As for Snowden, someone would have to be very naive to not realize the same thing is happening in every major country.

So the argument here is "Other people also do bad stuff?"

Putin is today the only leader who dares to oppose the US and their EU dogs. He doesn't accept that the US takes on the role as world police and go around the world telling people "this is how you should live", "these are the correct values" and "we lend you a lot of money, so now you have to reform your country exactly as we tell you".

What? Okay, first off: Ever heard of China? Second, yeah Putin is totally different. It's not like he is trying to tell people how to live their life and what correct values are. Nooo sir. Oh, just don't be gay. And don't ask any questions. And don't be part of a minority.

Also, right now, he increased the gas price for the Ukraine twice because they reformed their country. That's totally different than "we lend you money so now you have to reform" right?

Is this a joke?

@sybbie: So... you want us to retcon history and gin up greater outrage in the past to match outrage now?

If you're just mad about Iraq or the NSA, it's cool to voice that anger. But having such anger does not mean everyone everywhere has to be exactly as angry as you are about everything.

Speak out against the NSA now if you like; go for it. Arrange some protests or start a blog. But please don't tell people who are concerned about what's going on in Ukraine and Russia that we can't be angry unless we're just as angry as you are about everything else. That isn't okay; you don't own anger and worry. You aren't the king of criticism. I can understand some frustration over others maybe not feeling the same way as you do or acting in a way you prefer, but don't minimize the right of others to express concern about something like this.

I have a friend worried that he might have to be called to fight to protect his country of Ukraine, and I'll be damned if anyone is going to tell me or anyone else that they can't be as concerned or critical of what is going on in Ukraine and Russia right now.

@steadyingmeat: Nah, it was all about the timing.

I think you're missing my point. The world today is still divided between west (led by the US) and east (foremost Russia and China), and it has been like that since WWII. Western countries always lick Obama's ass, because there are so many business ties and other relations. Putin, on the other hand, stands up to Obama and does not lick his ass. That's why Putin is important, regardless of how corrupt he is. He's part of the world balance.

When east does something against international law, west start sanctions and heacy critisism rolls out in basically all western media. When west does something against international law, there may be a bit of critisism, but it's FAR tamer than when east does something. We all also have media which are agenda and propaganda driven. When was the last time you heard something positive about China or Russia in western media?

I'm not saying Putin is good. What I'm saying is that he's not as bad as western media portrays him, and he's also important to Russia's stability.

Please explain that one.

@sybbie: So, to rephrase what you said earlier:

It seems that as long as you do something in the name of public order or anti-Western interests, you can get away with ANYTHING.

Putin is not your or anyone's savior against the West. Heck, he isn't even Russia's savior despite your insistence that Russia needs totalitarianism. Personally, I would prefer to believe in the people of Russia and other nations in Asia, and in my experience, they're not beasts that need dictators or oligarchy. If you allow the East vs. West ideology to cause you to make excuses for the abuses of someone like Putin, then you're buying into and reinforcing this tired conflict which has already cost the world enough.

Minimizing the problems with Putin will not elevate the urgency of problems in Western nations. Telling people to quiet down their outrage over their lands being taken or their friends and family being abused will not somehow cause your objections to be heard any louder. All this does is reinforce old, destructive norms which have divided us as a world for far too long.

If you're angry about something, then be angry about it, but don't you dare suggest that people can't be angry about anything else. Take it up with some government if you like, but spewing this on a forum like this doesn't serve anyone.

Trust me, you don't want him to explain. Just slowly back away.

Hey, it's a political post by someone who clearly doesn't know shit about politics! The internet needs more of these.

Especially a fun, video game centered website.

While we're open to a little political debate here and there on the forums, the OP is essentially just flame-baiting / trolling and is highly unlikely to produce any meaningful discussion.

Locked.