whats your opinion on the fact that the game engine is made for the 360's standards and not PC standards? Although the first game-play video was from a 360 and looks absolutely AMAZING! wouldnt you prefer if it was made as best to the current PC hardware as they could rather than tuning it for the 360?

360 is clearly where the money is, where most sales will be, and they have said several times consoles are the main platform. Not surprised, and not expecting the PC one to be vastly superior. However, it will have mods, and as long as they don't shit up the interface so bad by making it so heavily for consoles then I'm really not fussed.

It probably makes a lot of sense from several different angles. I don't know, but I'm willing to bet that console sales for Oblivion and Fallout surpassed PC sales by a fair margin, so they want to play to that crowd, and putting a hard upper limit on what they can do allows for more focus and polish.

My opinion is that the next Fallout game will possibly please me. They can't take away my Pip-Boy as my main interface thingy.

Like Others have said, it makes sense on buisness standpoint. 

Im a PC player and I don't whine about those kind of things and neither should you. It's just the reality of the industry deal with it.

Welcome to 2006.

This talking point has been driven into the ground since these consoles came out. Its not good news, but its a fucking fact, and being the millionth thread about it won't change it.

So the answers are:

Yes.

Economics of scale.

PC is a declining, piracy-ridden market.

Its multiplatorm-able releases or its next to nothing.

Yea I cam see it from business point of view, but it would be so much nicer if they concertrated on makeing games like this at a PC standard rather than a console standard, notice how on a rare ocasion there is a game that you can only get on PC it is so much better? Also if they are making it to a console standard, hardware wise the PS3 shits all over the 369

Sure they didn't build the game around Direct X 11 but they did confirm that the PC version will have a bit more bells and whistles than the console version.

@Stahlbrand said:

PC is a declining, piracy-ridden market.

Everything you said was right, up until there. As someone who naturally goes where the games are, the consoles are getting stale and I'm once again moving towards PC. PC is a massive market and always will be. Sure Xbox will sell more copies, but over the next two years I'd wager PC is growing hugely. Until they release new consoles, PC gaming is once again where it's at.

    Look we all know consoles cannon't match PCs in performance, but we know that PCs can't match consoles in sales. Just a fact, more people can afford consoles rather than a gaming rig that you'll need to upgrade ever so often. More people game on consoles than PCs not because consoles are better (subject to personal opinion in regards to certain likes and dislikes) but because it's easier to just buy something once and you're good for a few years than always looking to upgrade to max out games on PCs. If I cared about maxing games out I'd only play on PCs, but to me it's not a big deal, I like being lazy buying something once then knowing I can just buy the games knowing they'll run, even if it's not the best they'll look or run.  
    I used to game PC but just gave up in the fight to keep up with the hardware and software. In the end PCs are for people who love maxing the game, modding and the smoothness of mouse pointing and quick keying. Consoles are for those gamer's that like to just "buy and play" without all the other things PCs demand you pay attention to.  

as others have said, it's not ideal but it is how it is. Money does make the world go around.

I am not a software developer, my opinion is invalid.

With that said, an engine is basically a tool box for creating a game. Who knows if the 360 will make full potential of all the tools available.

@Rolyatkcinmai said:

@Stahlbrand said:

PC is a declining, piracy-ridden market.

Everything you said was right, up until there.

You're right, I overstated my case. That was the case for the last several years, to be sure, but things are swinging back to the PC side lately. The audience is growing, but far from a majority share, but definitely growing.

Also, more generally, engines are extendable. Any multiplatform game will look best on a decent PC, and mods (fan or official) that increase texture resolution and improve shader performance are common. Look in my images on my account page to see Oblivion environments looking 300% better than the base PC graphics. Sure, a PC-native engine could go farther, but even as things are, the PC experience is preferred.

The first 3 years of new console gens cut heavy into PC sales, but after that the PCs rise back against aging hardware and software of the consoles. Basically common sense 101 techy-ness.

At least most people will be able to run it at max settings.

I'll take that over having to chose between a PC version that nobody can run properly and a lackluster console port.

@bioblood22 said:

Look we all know consoles cannon't match PCs in performance, but we know that PCs can't match consoles in sales. Just a fact, more people can afford consoles rather than a gaming rig that you'll need to upgrade ever so often. More people game on consoles than PCs not because consoles are better (subject to personal opinion in regards to certain likes and dislikes) but because it's easier to just buy something once and you're good for a few years than always looking to upgrade to max out games on PCs. If I cared about maxing games out I'd only play on PCs, but to me it's not a big deal, I like being lazy buying something once then knowing I can just buy the games knowing they'll run, even if it's not the best they'll look or run. I used to game PC but just gave up in the fight to keep up with the hardware and software. In the end PCs are for people who love maxing the game, modding and the smoothness of mouse pointing and quick keying. Consoles are for those gamer's that like to just "buy and play" without all the other things PCs demand you pay attention to.

The thing is, you don't need to upgrade your PC that often, especially not when games are being made with consoles in mind.

This is really a good thing all around. Consoles get an engine that is optimized for them and the PC players get a game that they can (probably) run easier as a result. 

I don't have a PC that could run it as well as my 360 will be able to, so I am definitely happy about this. 

360 is clearly where the money is, where most sales will be, and they have said several times consoles are the main platform. Not surprised, and not expecting the PC one to be vastly superior. However, it will have mods, and as long as they don't shit up the interface so bad by making it so heavily for consoles then I'm really not fussed.

Im a PC player and I don't whine about those kind of things and neither should you. It's just the reality of the industry deal with it.

This is really a good thing all around. Consoles get an engine that is optimized for them and the PC players get a game that they can (probably) run easier as a result. 

They're graphics. Get over it.

I don't care. It's fine as it is now. Sure, it's not next gen and Two Worlds 2 does look a lot more complex in terms of modern effects but I'm sure the modders will fix that.

@SoldierG654342 said:

This is really a good thing all around. Consoles get an engine that is optimized for them and the PC players get a game that they can (probably) run easier as a result. 

Unless they don't have an XBOX 360 controller.

As a person that is buying Skyrim on the 360, this makes me happy. The game will be more optimized for my platform, and my hardware will have a better chance of being fully utilized. If you take Dragon Age: Origins for example. The game was made for the PC (and, in this case, rightfully so), and was ported to console. The game was rough on console, to say the least, and suffered from poor UI decisions. In this case, it was more forgivable though, because Dragon Age was a game that was actually going to sell to a PC audience (I believe it actually sold better on PC than console, a rare feat). Skyrim, like others have said, will make a majority of its sales on console. Sacrificing the experience of 80+% of your user-base for the benefit of the other 20% is pretty stupid, from a business standpoint.

You've probably seen what mods have done to Oblivion, so I wouldn't put one iota of energy into caring what hardware Skyrim was developed for. Over time Skyrim will look better and better on the PC, even more so than it will at launch.

Code for the lowest common denominator, less work done porting to the rest. Or at least that is how it works in theory. Still looks incredible though.

@The_Nubster said:

Oh my god. Is this happening? People who prefer the PC aren't shitting all over consoles? Thank you two for being sane, rational human beings.

You're overreacting. At least in Giant Bomb, people don't go around talking shit about consoles if they play mainly on PC. In other forums, yes, but not here, really. In fact, it's kinda the other way around: console gamers "devalue" PC gaming because "it's expensive", "it's hard to build a PC", "you have to upgrade every year", etc. See, for example:

@gladspooky said:

@SoldierG654342 said:

This is really a good thing all around. Consoles get an engine that is optimized for them and the PC players get a game that they can (probably) run easier as a result.

Unless they don't have an XBOX 360 controller.

I don't get it. What makes Skyrim so different from Oblivion or Morrowind that forces you to use a 360 gamepad to play? What can't you do with a keyboard that you can with a gamepad?

Because all the cool kids will play it on a 360. Joke aside, I guess they just expect it to sell great on that platform. As people have already stated, piracy is hitting the PC platform hard.

I wouldn't worry. Skyrim is absolutely Bethesda's last game for this generation of consoles. I can only assume that in designing this new engine they made sure it would be easy to move it forward and take advantage of next gen tech.

Are graphics really important anymore?

Okay, yeah Crysis 2 looked "better" on the PC, but did it make a difference in the game? No.

The game industry is moving away from the graphic words, it seems. If that is the case, it doesn't matter if it was optimized for the xbox versus the pc, because the approach is all about style now, not graphical prowess.

Besides, Why would you not optimize the game to a platform that provided the majority of your sales?

If the game is made for the 360, A) will look good on consoles.  B) means the game wont be as taxing on the PC. C) more people will play. 
The name of the game is to make money, not to please those few with an incredible rig.  I really cannot believe how entitled some people that made their rig destroy Crysis today are taking a dig at developers for not focusing on PC.

@JoeyRavn said:

@The_Nubster said:

Oh my god. Is this happening? People who prefer the PC aren't shitting all over consoles? Thank you two for being sane, rational human beings.

You're overreacting. At least in Giant Bomb, people don't go around talking shit about consoles if they play mainly on PC. In other forums, yes, but not here, really. In fact, it's kinda the other way around: console gamers "devalue" PC gaming because "it's expensive", "it's hard to build a PC", "you have to upgrade every year", etc. See, for example:

@gladspooky said:

@SoldierG654342 said:

This is really a good thing all around. Consoles get an engine that is optimized for them and the PC players get a game that they can (probably) run easier as a result.

Unless they don't have an XBOX 360 controller.

I don't get it. What makes Skyrim so different from Oblivion or Morrowind that forces you to use a 360 gamepad to play? What can't you do with a keyboard that you can with a gamepad?

See, as PC as my main platform, this is the problem I have with consoles being developed for first. I couldn't care less about graphics quality being degraded because of consoles, because to be honest, I can play anything from ASCII style to Witcher 2 style graphics. BUT what bothers me most is controls and interface. That's where the PC can really take a hit due to consoles.

Take for instance that Ghostbusters shooter that came out a while ago. It was ported from the 360 to the PC. Instead of making PC control for the game they emulated the analog stick to the mouse. So in a way you are forced to use a controller to play. Oblivion is a good example of a shitty console UI ported to PC. You only had like 4 hot keys because they console used the D-pad directions for hot keys. So instead of 1-10 on the keyboard, you get 4 (thought it might have been 8. I can't remember if you could use diagonal directions on the console controller). You also go an over sized clunky interface that relied on arrow keys and key commands as opposed to a mouse. The same goes for interfaces like in recent Bioware games. The Mass Effect and DA2 interfaces suffer on the PC. That's what really annoys me.

Just use mods

If someone handed me video or images from the Quakecon demo and didn't tell me or ask me what system it was played on I would say it looks great without hesitation .  I'd also say the game mechanics look like they're on the right track and look to be a big improvement from what we saw in Oblivion.  I feel like I could have a good time running around in the Skyrim setting and to be honest that's all I've ever wanted out of an Elder Scrolls game. 

It looks good, so I'm not complaining.