The State of Premium

Hey, this definitely shouldn't have happened, but I'm showing that you expired on the 26th after renewing on the 26th every month? If you'd like some free time to make up for it, let me know.

Folks I don't have a tremendous amount to share in here right this very moment and I apologize for that. We've been having discussions on our side about Premium and content distribution and etc and I'm hoping we can talk about that sometime soon because obviously you deserve to know! I'm sorry I can't say more right now but I definitely have been reading this thread and wanted to drop something in here because I know plenty of you are frustrated. Anyone who knows me knows I love gabbin' and talkin' so I look forward to doing more of that when the time is right, but for now I just wanted to make sure you knew your concerns were noted.

Thanks for acknowledging the thread, Rorie. "Can't talk about it right now." Is less then ideal but atleast a staffer showed up.

@rorie: thanks Rorie. This response is appreciated.

@sjqpersonal: Yeah, I know "We hear you and we'll do better" is a pretty bog-standard response but it's all I have for the moment, unfortunately. There'll be more news soon...ish. Sorry I can't be more forthcoming right now.

@rorie Thanks for at least fronting up Rorie. We're not asking for daily status reports or anything. We're just asking for 'anything'.

@strathy: well said

@rorie It is what it is man. Appreciate your compassion as always.

If I were a betting man I bet they are thinking of phasing out premium by the sounds of that response and making recent shows suddenly free.

I feel like the fact that RV bought this site is showing itself to be a net negative. I love you rorie but the fact that you expressed that you can’t say anything is troubling. This site is all about personality. It’s about the connection that subs feel to the staff. If that isn’t a thing anymore then that kills it for me. RV needs to understand that we can get news from a million sites online. We are here for the people on the site. If they don’t understand or respect that then I and a lot of others will be gone. The fact that rorie can’t speak to our concerns shows that he is being silenced. Sorry but I come here to hear from Jeff, Jan, rorie, Jason, Jess.

Sorry for the immediate follow up post. All we want is a site that has an identity. We came here because it wasn’t a corporate controlled monolith. Even when CBS owned them it didn’t feel like they did. Now it does. I understand it is a business but we want our uncensored takes without thinking about us being an income source. I’m happy to pay for the content but when it feels like “corporate “ is trying to SEO the whole site then I can’t stand for that. Just give me the personalities and let them do their thing.

@tradee9691: I don't understand this reasoning. The site has its identity, the content is still personality driven. They're putting out some cool shit, and it seems like they're doing stuff they wanna do. And they're pretty open with their opinions on the industry, nothing held back there. What's so corporate about it?

Is it as free wheeling as it used to be? Definitely not, but GB has been more... I hate to say formulaic, but it's been more about a standard schedule for a big chunk of its existence at this point. Shows come and go and there are far less random streams. I have nostalgia for the early days, but as more content creators have appeared over the past decade, a more reliable schedule for GB is kind of a good thing for me.

Good to see Rorie post here, and that they're having discussions and this isn't falling on deaf ears. I would like to hear directly from Jeff, as it's been awhile since we had a jar time. But I'll assume they'll say more when they have more to say.

Or it could just mean they haven't yet finalised the details of what they want to say?

@arjailer: Or...perhaps they're the PENTAVERATE

Unrelated hey, sometimes people can't talk about stuff...it doesn't mean they're being silenced.

That's good enough for me. I wouldn't want this place to turn to the outright sycophancy many Youtubers employ but there's definitely an ideal middle ground between that and just saying nothing.

When it comes to the content, I actually feel that there's much more variety and more being produced overall than there was before the changes (there was a year or two there when things were getting pretty stale imo). I don't personally watch any of the non game related shows but I'm happy to support them for those that do. Maybe they bring a whole bunch of new duders into the fold, hard for me to see that as a bad thing.

I occasionally check out Grubbsnax and there the premium allows some extra audience participation. I wonder if that sorta thing might be where we're headed instead of paywalling content. I don't really wanna speculate too much though, hearing that the concerns have been acknowledged and there is more information coming is a reasonable response and I appreciate it.

@sethmode said:

You'd think so with some of the melodrama in here 🙄

I had a long hard thought on my subscription renewal last month because I feel like I haven't been getting nearly as much out of it as I used to. For now I have renewed for the annual to support the site and the creators, but I really do feel like GB is starting to become an after thought. It's really the only place I come for video game content and news so I just hope it improves at some point.

I appreciate the response, but that being the first comment we’ve heard from staff on a serious issue that’s gone on far too long is pretty disappointing.

I think this will be the cycle I let my sub lapse, if the service still exists by then. I think the posts suggesting premium could go away may be onto something.

@christ0phe: having to scramble to find reasons for it to exist is a shame. Everytime new premium offerings pop up and fuckin die a month later it feels like the longest running series on GiantBomb is "Making Excuses"

Yeah I let my sub lapse a while ago, pretty much after the Nextlander split, and I haven't seen much reason to come back. I understand the realities of why it won't go back to this, but losing in person content is what has killed it for me. There are thousands of streamers doing the same thing Giant Bomb is doing, how does Giant Bomb stand out?

Also, what does each person bring to the table? Gerstmann has the knowledge and experience, the rest are just kind of... personalities? Plus Jeff is on less and less content.

I was basically a day one premium, this does super bum me out, but it just feels like time to walk away from this site, be happy for all the great things that came from it, and to move on to the next.

Has there been any info on why this is? I miss the ‚Jar time‘ or Mistr type streams.

@rakete: Honestly, I'd say it's because of having 2 kids and also moving from his home. I don't know if he meant to stay at that place for a while, but I feel like he'd lived there for a minute now.

That being said, it's surprising he hasn't done a Jar Time since before covid. One of the next times he wants to do a let's go crazy with old games stream, he could do that instead.

But as someone who started a YouTube channel during quarantine days, as life picks up and I get more and more busy, I understand using the free time opportunity for fun things rather than having to deal with more serious questions about the site and community. Unfortunately, the radio silence isn't making things better right now.

@rakete: I mean, that is essentially what garage talk was. And he had 1 less kid then. For those that don’t know, he has been doing tik toks and short clips, which I think is all he has time for. Im gonna say let the man have a life, his kids and wife are more important that any of us.

@tartyron: not going to pretend this isn't a snarky response but what about those dads who do 8 hour work days outside the house 5 days a week? Surely a couple extra hours appearing in videos a week isn't asking much? It's quite possible after losing the core people/ his friends he founded the site with, it just not being the same doing remote stuff, plus with his new found family that he's lacking the passion so maybe lean towards content like demo derbys, fighting games, jar times etc that he seems to enjoy.

@tartyron: How many newborns have you had? If any, did you just have your wife do it all?

I don't feel the need to demand things from others. I just stopped paying. I recommend you do too. I don't hold it against the people making the site, and I'm not angry about it. I just stopped. We all got older and slower and that's ok. I'm honestly ok if the site disappears. I hope that those that make it land on their feet and I'm not gonna sharpen my knives demanding blood because they all got families and turned 40.

@tartyron: This is one of the strangest takes I’ve ever seen…People have kids every day, it’s normal. They don’t just stop doing their job and 99% of people don’t have the luxury of a remote position with the flexibility of doing what they do at GB.

Regardless, that conversation is veering pretty far beyond the point of the thread. No one in here is “sharpening knives” demanding shit. It’s a civil conversation asking for some official explanation into the changes we’ve seen and if there’s a new direction going forward. As a paying customer to a service that’s not an unreasonable expectation at all.

What’s going in in the personal life of a staff member should not at all have anything to do with that question or the official site response (if we get one). This site is more than just 1 person, it’s not like its a small team Patreon. It’s owned by a multi-billion dollar media conglomerate after all.

If you’ve already cancelled your sub and don’t care what happens next then fine…but it doesn’t make anyone else’s concern or question in here any less valid.

@csl316:

I very much appreciate your reasoned response. I think it feels”corporate “ because I came up with the giantbomb that wouldn’t let anyone keep them from speaking about what the “future plans” were. I don’t like that rorie is in a position to have to tell us that eventually he will be allowed to tell us something. Why not just be able to speak about what they are thinking and where they are in that process? I just think a lot of the people on this site and it’s legacy. I think they would do better in the communication they are giving us if they could but I think they have someone over them telling them they can’t.

Why not just be able to speak about what they are thinking and where they are in that process?

I think the problem with doing something like that is if a staffer states they're thinking about doing something, and that something doesn't then go on to happen, people will get pissy. Even if it's something relatively innocuous like 'oh, we're thinking about doing a regular monday livestream to cover new releases' - if that then never happens, there'll be a vocal minority of members who will go out on their front porches screaming at the storm that they were promised something. Most of us would, of course, take the thought for what it is, just a thought. But if enough people get angry about it that leads to a rise of bad feeling and sentiment amongst the community. I think that's why a lot of organisations and companies have stopped being so open about their future plans now.

I like to try to think of the radio silence as the kind of 'good surprise' feeling you get when Nintendo releases a direct and tells you about a game they've been working on in secret and that it's coming out next month.

I try not to speculate personally, but at the same time GB Premium is a service people are real paying money for. If it's changing people should be notified when it happens, not months later.

I’ve stayed out of most of the new direction/new content discussions, so bear with me if this gets a bit long and meandering. Adding my two cents to this whole discussion, being totally honest about it, I mostly subscribe for access to the archive at this point. It if wasn’t for that, I don’t know that I would keep my subscription just for the current content. As many have already said, most of it is readily accessible via this site, YouTube, Twitch, etc, with or without a subscription.

I won’t get into the perceived quality of newer shows versus shows of the past, as that’s entirely subjective, or the very obvious reasons why the Giant Bomb of today simply can’t be the Giant Bomb of the past. I will say, however, that a lot of what was discussed early on after the major staff departures as far as the new direction is concerned hasn’t panned out for me in a way that makes me tune in regularly for a lot of the current/newer shows. I liked Guilty Treasures and Ranking of Evil while they lasted but those always seemed, and I think may have even been stated as, temporary in nature.

Beyond that I’ve liked stuff like Bak 2 Skool (remains to be seen if that returns), GrubbSnax & Arcade Pit, but the thing you’ll notice in common between those is that they are all either done by or focused on people not directly staffed by Giant Bomb. As far as the core shows, primarily done by the Giant Bomb crew, the only one I tune into regularly is Voicemail Dump Truck (I’m hit and miss on the Bombcast and even moreso on UPF lately), and that, like just about all other shows, are free for anyone. So again, I can’t say that anything they’re doing currently would entice me to subscribe on its own merits.

I suppose the bigger issue they have now is whether they want to, or even should gate the smaller number of shows (compared to the pre-pandemic years) they have now behind a paywall, limiting their visibility to newer viewers, or go a different route with it. A lot of other sites with paid subscription options tend to take the route of added user interactivity for paid subscribers, rather than access to the content itself. It works for some sites/streamers but I don’t know if that alone would grow or maintain the number of subscribers Giant Bomb & RV are looking for. It’s not an easy thing to answer and I’m sure is nerve-wracking trying to figure out.

All that said, I still go back to the first thing I said: I subscribe primarily for the archive and will likely renew when the time comes for the same reason. For me, it’s a reasonable price for something I can go back to and put on while I’m doing other things around the house or rewatch an older series when the mood strikes me. Sort of like comfort food. If the archive were to go away, then I can’t honestly say I would keep my subscription but that could change too depending on what direction the site takes going forward. I do understand the frustration some people are having, though, in particular for the people where the archive isn’t the major selling point that it is for me. The lack of new premium content and communication on the plan for it going forward is concerning and a bit off-putting for some.

The only thing I can really tell people is if you don’t think the content they’re providing is worth your money, don’t subscribe to it. That’s not a judgment on you or the site, but there are a lot of subscription services out there competing for your time and money and you have to decide what’s worth it to you and what isn’t. We don’t live in a time where indefinite/long term subscriptions always make a ton of sense anymore. I used to subscribe to anything and everything that caught my interest but eventually noticed that I probably only ever got use out of about half of it. So I trimmed down to just the stuff that I actively use and have been much more satisfied with where my money goes. Subscribe to what is scratching that itch for you at the time and drop what isn’t. You can always come back if you feel like it further down the line.

@rorie: i was wrong. thought it was the 30h. overworked sorry. yall fuckin rock.

@lordv: what you say in your last paragraph is what I was trying to say earlier. Everything changes and dies, folks. I also liked the old content better than the new (though I like some of the new still) but that’s not coming back at this point unless it’s just Jan and Rorie as they are the only ones left in SF (though I’d totally watch a Jan and Rorie show.) I stopped my sub last year and I’m just waiting out until it’s over in august. I’m not angry or feeling ripped off. I didn’t think there was some scam being pulled on us. I think life changed for most the crew and that’s the state of things. I endorse you stop paying if you aren’t happy. If it’s this websites time to go, well, it was gonna happen one day anyway. I doubt I’m gonna get through to the angrier folks on this thread, so I’m gonna disengage now. Just, guys, everyone is human and most humans are not gonna be perfect. Some of the shit being flung around the past year regarding members of the crew are pretty gross, demanding and/or just disappointingly unkind for a community that generally hasn’t been toxic for over a decade. Some of you just make me sad lately.

@tartyron: You're kind of putting words into peoples mouths and calling it anger and toxicity. It's been a civil discussion the whole thread. No one is "angry" or being demanding. Constructive criticism and simply asking "what's going on with premium" shouldn't be conflated with toxicity.

"Some of the shit being flung around the past year regarding members of the crew are pretty gross, demanding and/or just disappointingly unkind for a community that generally hasn’t been toxic for over a decade"

Where is that happening in this thread, that's been open a month? It's just a bunch of premium members simply asking a question about the service they're paying for. I don't disagree that it's been a problem in other areas (particularly the GB Reddit), but that's not what this is.

@swordstruck: Can't speak for this thread entirely, but that user is right. There have been conspiracy theories, accusations of laziness, and a TON of weird assumptions about the staff and Red Ventures despite zero evidence.

Most of this stuff isn't contained in this thread, but overall in the response to GB since the Red Ventures purchase and the Nextlander exodus. I think some of it comes from the lack of consistent communication but that doesn't mean it's warranted or correct.

yeah same here .. i reupped last yr despite the guys leaving cause everything jeff had said n the stuff they'd announced in the pipeline sounded hopeful/good even. but so far there hasn't been much i liked at all , and new stuff i did like disappeared. honestly i'd be lieing if i didn't feel a bit burned. if i didn't want to feel like a jerk i would have asked rorie to issue me a refund months ago before my reup fully kicked in. instead i'm kicking myself for not because not only has the stuff i liked dried up , but the service as a whole feels a bit like a ripoff what you see what is offered atm. its nothing like it used to be nor what they seemed to be saying even a yr ago. the subscriber push around the holidays already felt shady to me when it happened but seeing what premium has turned into /lost since then makes it seem even worse than it did to me then. idk what goes on behind the scenes tho , maybe that didn't go as well as expected who knows but either way it just doesn't look worthwhile from a consumer standpoint anymore which for a business is exactly what we are, and lets face it while the oldtimers of the site might still care to keep it for the archive its not doing a ton probably to pull in new ppl , plus even then you have ppl like myself who while thats great i already seen it n don't need to rewatch old videos i've already seen when elsewhere theres a ton of other stuff to watch.

all this said as much of a non-answer rorie gave at least he said something so thats nice i suppose but when this thread has been running for as long as it has you also have to wonder why wait so long to give a non-answer.

Hey duders. I joined in 2011, but I had been watching for some time before that. I cancelled my subscription a while ago, even though I continue to love the site and the people who work on it. It genuinely means a lot to me. If any of the crew decides to glance into this thread and sees this post, I guess I'd like to say something just as someone who's I guess been so invested over the years.

I know we've had a lot of toxicity over the years, especially in regard to the changes in staff. I've never really been apart of any of that, and I've always been welcoming of the changes that have occurred. That said, things now are different. I look at the site and I see very little of what it has always been, and the heart of what I have enjoyed. At some points I feel like I'd might as well pull up the Youtube gaming section and find a random person to start watching. Which is saying something, because Giant Bomb has really primarily been my only source of gaming content since its inception. Now I know nothing will ever stay the same, but the direction things have taken leaves the site unrecognizable to me. Maybe I'm no longer within the target demographic here, and that's alright. You guys know better than I do as to what content is popular and what people are responding to. Maybe nothing of what I've had to say is helpful, but I'm not here to steer the ship, I just wanted to say how it's left me feeling. Anyway, thanks for reading, and I hope you're all well.

I'm looking forward next month to watching Sony's "State of Play, and other similar streams from Microsoft, Nintendo, etc while the Giant Bomb guys talk over. As a premium member, I never bothered to check if it's premium content, but it's always something I've enjoyed. I mean, I can go anywhere to watch these streams, but I prefer to hear GB's take on things while the streams are on going.

forever and ever, amen. i'm enjoying the output- so i sub. if i wasn't, i wouldn't be.

(that reads like a yogi berra ism)

they tell ya don't preorder games- by the same logic, don't preorder content. i can partially understand if some folks feel like they were sold a bill of goods- but pay for what you're currently enjoying, not the promise.

I don't know if I will renew this year even though I've been doing it per the end of the year sale.

I mainly listen/watch the Bombcast and the Beastcast when it was around. But when there are shows I thought was just for premium being put on YouTube, what's the benefit of premium for what I consume form GB.

I'm scared GB is going to turn into Game Informer for me. I loved GI when Ben H was hosting, then Andy, then Ben R.. but when it switched to the younger gen, I lost interested because they don't cater to me and they're trying too hard to, but it's all a learning experience for them and I'm no longer in there target demographic. I'm scared GB is going to go overboard in trying to do something new/different that just turns me off.

I just have no interest in some of the new content being put out. Some of it is because there isn't any news for the games I'm actually interested in. I think everyone on the GB crew is all good people, but sometimes it feels like the dynamic is forced and isn't natural. It all comes with time with a new crew, but some times I cringe when listen to some of the things being said on the various shows and then I question myself do I want to pay for this, when it's free on YouTube.

having premium to able to look for old content is GREAT, but some of the new stuff within the past year... not so much.

Having a year pass by since those 3 guys left and seeing that the site is basically still be in the same spot creatively as it was back then is the thing that concerns me. In fact, the reasons why they left are that much more apparent in that this acquisition has seemed to stifle the GB crew's output. I understand why they initially went out and contracted some content to fill a gap and that work has brought us excellent semi- and permanent additions such as Grubb and Jess respectively. But the contract work wasn't meant to last. This is a personality-based website and it needs people to produce content. I find myself drifting back into the archives these days to feel the nostalgia of days long-past. Back then, I felt like I knew what this site was about and the direction it was going. Now I'm not so sure.

That's a long-winded way of saying this: I love Giant Bomb. I have always loved Giant Bomb. I just don't like it right now.

I wish the best for Giant Bomb. Even extended my sub til Jan 2023 to show my support during this transitional era. I must admit that today is hard for me financially as it is for most people who subscribed to Giant Bomb. I hoped to grow with Giant Bomb as they did when a lot of staff started their own families. Unfortunately, life doesn't really go as planned. All good things must come to an end. The WFH era doesn't provide the same value for premium as it did for me prior to the pandemic. I wish they can all go back into an office and warm our monitors, earbuds, and tvs with their awesome chemistry, knowledge, and creativity. But that does not seem like it'll happen moving forward. If I wanted to watch twitch-like streams I would just watch a streamer for free or support them with $5 for a tier 1 month subscription.

I admit that I haven't watch any Giant Bomb content since a recent "We Talk Over" event, but that's because I just don't find myself happy with the content, let alone premium content. I'm torn. I love Giant Bomb. I will forever love Giant Bomb. The staff provided much more than entertainment during my dark days, but I don't feel that warm fuzzy feeling when watching the newer content. I hate to say it, but I find the same connections I had with Giant Bomb with the streamers I follow on Twitch. When it comes time to renew my sub in January, I don't think I will if Giant Bomb continues down this road unfortunately.

@rorie:

"we got some big stuff coming, just wait and see" has been the go to for so long, I cancelled out two "we got stuff coming, just wait"'s ago.

I know a few times, it's just been that stuff hasn't fallen into place, but still...

I've been out of the loop for awhile now but.. is studio Giant Bomb just not going to be a thing ever again? Cuz I'd be willing to engage in convo about how these new members fit and whatnot if there was ever a hope of going back to the style of content that made the site great. now it's competing with twitch streams with the same operating concept (buncha people in different spots, call in to one stream) that have the kind of enthusiasm and humor that GB used to have that's been sorely missing since at least the pandemic (though I would argue JeffG's been phoning it in since Dan/Drew left). Also, all that shit is free. At one point GB premium was a goddamn steal at $50/year, but now I feel like the site just doesn't have the juice. makes me sad :/

@some-human: yeah, I don’t know why Jeff G continues to over promise and under deliver with those kind of statements. Remember after the departures they were going to use the extra money to do all these WEIRD CRAZY THINGS? Instead we got another show with people I don’t know sitting in front of their Webcams talking about music or something.

@bacon: You mean you didn’t find Reel Layers weird and crazy?

@pudking: no just tedious and unfunny.

@bacon: Likewise!