Sea of Stars Discussion

Sea of Stars, a turn-based RPG by Sabotage of The Messenger fame, came out towards the end of August and it’s a shame to see that it seems to have gone completely unnoticed over here by the staff.

Admittedly I haven’t listened to the bombcast as frequently as I used to, but I think there should be an episode listed if it had come up. It did also come out in a month that had a bunch of other indies coming out, along with a RPG juggernaut BG3, so I’m sure that also played a part in it. I also didn’t play it at launch and instead wasted 15 plus hours to find out I did’t enjoy Starfield, so I’m partly to be blamed as well! Luckily it seems to have sold beyond the dev team’s expectations, so it hasn’t gone unnoticed by everyone.

Anyway! Having now played 20-ish hours of the game, I’m pretty confident that it’s going to be on my GOTY list, in a year that has been bursting with excellent games. It took me a while to warm up to it’s systems and I still don’t always love timing your actions in battle, but even when I was struggling with that part, the rest of the game carried me forward. The visuals of the world and the audio that accompanies them are made with so much love that it’s hard to not be charmed by it all. It did also help a lot that the game allows you to buy relics that you can use at any point of the game to balance the difficulty significantly (something that I could’ve used in The Messenger, that I gave up on some hours in because of difficult it was).

It has some flaws, like story pacing issues and some of the characters, despite their charm, end up a bit flat, but none of that has made a noticeable dent to my enjoyment. So unless something drastic is going to happen during the 10 or so hours that I have left in the game, besides being on my GOTY list, this is also going to be the only turn-based RPG that I’ve ever finished, unless you count in Undertale/Deltarune, I suppose.

P.S. It’s also on Game Pass, PS+ Extra/Premium and has a demo, so no reason to not at least try it!

For what it’s worth, they did discuss the game on the Giant Bombcast, episode 804. I don’t have a timestamp or anything, but I think it was about two-thirds through the first segment. Mostly it’s been the timing of Armored Core VI and Starfield, plus a short most recent Bombcast thanks to PAX. Hopefully, they discuss it more tomorrow.

This game may be my GOTY frontrunner as it currently stands. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if a decent number of people drop it thanks to its early game pacing issues; the flashback sequence that takes a long time and happens nearly immediately might end up turning a lot of Game Pass / PS Plus dilettantes off too soon. Didn’t they get the memo that you’re supposed to put all your most enticing content in the first three hours and save any slog for afterwards so you look best on a Twitch stream?

I'm a few hours in (just got to Brisk) and while I intend to keep playing it's not exactly grabbing me yet. I don't get the GOTY talk but maybe that stuff opens up later. It looks and sounds great and the writing is...fine. I do like some of the combat tactical tweaks and such but so far it's just kind of a pleasant throwback, much better than a lot of other games that have tried to be old school JRPGs but not much more than that (so far).

That early game flashback sequence was flat out brutal, one of the most boring sequences I can remember and adding virtually nothing that you couldn't get from context.

This game has one of the worst “Do you get it?” joke npcs I’ve maybe ever seen in a game but that’s kind of the only objectionable thing about it, I had a really good time with it.

I was maybe a bit on my toes after The Messenger had a lot of not-so-amazing humor, but thankfully that hasn't been the case, even if I did also more roll my eyes at that one.

Trying not to spoil things here, but by the time I'm done, I'll have about 35 hours into it. As of now, I'm in their "endgame" wrap up mode with just a couple more things to do before I go fight the end boss.

Coming from me, a 38-year-old with a deep history with the two games Sea of Stars is heavily cribbing from (namely Mario RPG and Chrono Trigger), I'm really enjoying myself. Yes, there are concepts and lines stolen directly from those games as a wink and nod, but it's done in a way that, if you didn't get the reference, it doesn't detract from the experience.

The combat is a brilliant mix of the Mario RPG timed-hits mechanics married to the dual/triple team-up attack system taken from Chrono Trigger. Adding on top of that, they also introduce their own concept of enhanced attacks that add an additional layer of strategy and choice to every fight. Even taken from later Mario RPGs, enemies are on the field and you can choose to get in an early hit to have an advantage.

Probably my favorite part of this game is its soundtrack. Like any good RPG, you need good battle music if you're going to be hearing it over and over again. These tracks will get burned in your brain in the best way. Each main area has its own theme and I swear one of the towns you visit has a distinct Gilligan's Island theme song vibe. Best tracks are the boss encounters, though. Got me super hyped.

Graphically, it's what you'd expect from a game like this, but the character portraits shown in dialog provide added emotion to each scene. The animations are top notch and the added cutscenes give it that much extra style. The environments are colorful, if not lacking in a little life. I just wished they had more hidden or interactable elements.

Clearly this game was made for people like me who have nostalgia for this era of gaming and I can only give my perspective, so I understand if others aren't into the aesthetic. That being said, it's a solid game for me that came out at a time when there are so many games demanding people's attention that I can see how it might get missed. That said, if you enjoy the old turn-based RPG look and feel, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

@timoneous: Wow. I literally just rolled credits and decided to come here to talk about what a great experience I had with this game. Then here is your post, and it is EXACTLY what I would have said. I really LOVED this game which is a little weird for me to say, because I think at about the 10-15 hour range I was very unsure of how I felt. It just didn't click for whatever reason, until a certain plot point, and then I was hooked.

Oh, I'm loving everything about it. I keep thinking Game of the Year but 2023 is too ridiculous to name just one. To me, they nailed everything they're going for.

My comparison is Bloodstained. There are a ton of Metroidvanias, but something about Ritual of the Night just nailed the feel of Symphony of the Night. Sea of Stars captures that nebulous authentic feel of 16-bit RPGs, with smart updates and modern design.

The story and writing took a bit to grab me, but about 15 hours in I'm hoping it doesn't end anytime soon. The combat's really fun, and it does one of my favorite things in the genre with the ability to constantly swap party members without penalty. It opened up the gameplay so much and made every party member feel important.

I also did some guitar jams with one of my favorite themes. Doccari Village and Lake Doccaria (both are the same until the 1:20 mark). Because the music's so damn good. The Messenger had a great OST, and so does this one. And Mitsuda doesn't disappoint because he contributed some truly stellar work.

Kickstarted it years ago since I loved everything about The Messenger (with the only blemish being some confusing navigation later on).

I've completed it 100%. It has exceeded my high expectations. It's not perfect imo especially the first half but it has so much charm and character. Puzzles and dungeons variety are my favorite aspects of the game.

I enjoyed this one, but of the several "indie pixel art RPGs" that I played this year, I think I have it behind Chained Echoes and Cassette Beasts.

@csl316: You're spot on with the Bloodstained comparison. It's a new game made to feel like an old game while having its own identify.

I love both Symphony of the Night and Bloodstained, but I really disagree with the idea that Bloodstained captures the feel of Symphony of the Night. Bloodstained is more like a parody of Symphony of the Night. Symphony of the Night was accidentally campy with its "what is a man" line, but Bloodstained is intentionally goofy in a lot of ways. Mechanically Bloodstained is (intentionally) completely broken, with all kinds of combos and upgrades that make the game into a wacky cartoon version of a Metroidvania by the end.

Bloodstained is the Spaceballs to Symphony of the Night's Star Wars. I enjoy both films but they have very different tones and feels to them, even if the former obviously draws upon a lot of the latter.

@bigsocrates: The tone isn't exactly the same since it's not Castlevania, but SotN had a bunch of silliness all over the place. From items to visual gags to dumb enemies. Bloodstained goes further in that direction, sure, but it should have its own identity as a new series. The corgi robot was a welcome addition in Curse of the Moon 2.

In any case, I was thinking more about the design of the game as a whole. Progression, combat, pacing, level layouts, etc. It doesn't matter, really, that's just how I felt. I'm not here to provide a detailed analysis.

@ll_exile_ll: Been wanting to play Chained Echoes, haven't heard of Cassette Beasts til right now. Curious what you like more about those.

Played a bunch today, some good story moments experienced. Might wrap up the story tomorrow, but probably on thursday at latest. It's maybe not my GOTY, because that's just a very tough crowd to be in this year (with a few more contenders still coming later), but it's definitely going to be in my top 5 at least.

It would be neat to see Sabotage tackle yet another genre with their next game, but after Sea of Stars, I think I'm more hoping to see either a sequel or another RPG.

I'll add one more thing, but I'll put the spoiler tag on it just in case...

I know they're paying homage to Chrono Trigger when it comes to the "true ending" and I might have even shed a tear to the Garl story bits, but locking that up behind all of the pseudo loyalty missions, plus getting all 60 of the conches seems like unnecessary busy-work to pad out the game.

And as long as I'm under the spoiler tag, it would be an understatement to say that I did not expect the final battle to be partially a vertical shooter sequence.

Also, I really appreciate the artifact system that you can turn on/off on the fly. More games should include such things and not worry about penalizing the player by disabling trophies and whatnot. Let people enjoy their games how they want!

I've put some more time in and I think it does get better as it goes. It's not that it's bad at the start (aside from that awful flashback sequence that lasts like 20 minutes or whatever) it's that it's a little bland but the plot has some nice twists and turns and the characters come into their own a bit. It's definitely pretty cozy for an RPG dealing with some dark material though.

I will say that one thing I don't like is the Octopath Traveler mechanic where you have to use certain elements or weapons to disrupt spellcasting. It's just very constraining and it encourages you to hoard your mana in a game where otherwise you're encouraged to spend it, because if you don't have the right tools for a given lock you're just kind of screwed. I mean it's not a hard game, even with all the cheat stuff off, so it's not unfair, just annoying.

@bigsocrates: I feel like the game encourages you to spend mana on basically every other turn with how generous it is to recharge. Even if you're caught flat footed right before a big attack you need to block being able to switch party members freely usually means that you'll still be able to cancel most of its power.

What I did find that the game encouraged me to hoard though was combo points. I rarely found myself using any interesting combo attacks because for 2 points there was always going to be a full party heal available and a lot of boss patterns seemed to line up with how long it would take to get those points back and when they were ready for the big attacks again.

@efesell: I agree that the game encourages you to cast, but it does so by popping up those "locked" big moves almost every turn, making it feel like the game was making my spellcasting decisions for me. The number of times I find myself just casting an offensive spell to do damage instead of break a lock is very low. Defensive or healing spells more common.

I think it's a similar issue with the combo meter. There at least you can't carry it over between battles so it's use it or lose it. But I think the basic underlying issue is that defensive/healing stuff is overpowered in comparison to offensive stuff in this game. And I'm including canceling enemy moves in "defensive."

I get the complaints about canceling moves, especially until basically late game when the team is filled out. Earlier on they often seem impossible (sometimes I think that this is intentional) and one thing I absolutely missed until later is how the game expects you to be using combos...almost right away? So like, combine Valere and Zale level one to break this, etc...Perhaps I'm just a moron, but I always found myself saving up combos until level 2 as a safety healing valve (but I also think destroying locks increases how fast the combo meter increases so maybe it's a balance attempt? Dunno.) In general, I think broadly that the skills are probably one of the worst parts of the game. I really love some of then, especially the Ultimates, but there just aren't enough powers, and this is ESPECIALLY true early on. You have the same like 4, then 7, powers across 3 characters for the first like 8-10 hours of the game, depending on your play speed. That may seem like a decent amount of options, but it doesn't *feel* like a decent amount of options. IMO it doesn't really improve either (although the Ultimates are pretty inspired).

I'm still very much a huge fan of this refreshed nostalgia trip, but if Sabotage ever has a go at another JRPG, I hope we get a little more balance between the combat and things like the environment and verticality. I think most aspects of this game are "pretty good" to "great", but the balance of working my way through ANOTHER (albeit clever) dungeon jump, shimmy, climb sequence, and just run of the mill combat (which is ample) seems to be balanced more to anesthetics with combat an afterthought. Not sure though.

Finished it and got the true ending as well. I'd also say that I didn't love running around collecting all the remaining conches (even if using a guide made it more tolerable), but for the story bits alone, I'd say it was worth it.

Really enjoyed my time with this. I've got a few complaints, sure, but since the last post I made, I think this actually does have a pretty strong chance at being my GOTY. I'm pretty confident that Spider-Man 2 is going to be right up my alley and have a good chance at grabbing the spot too (Yeah, I'm hyped!), but we'll see how hard it's going to hit.

I'm closing in on 20 hours in and I have to say that I like the game a lot more than I did in the first few hours. It's interesting because to me there has not been any big turning point. No character that I absolutely love who shows up, no huge mechanical swing, no big plot point that makes it all exciting. It's just a slow build of mostly solid writing, decent characters, good (though not fantastic) music, more mechanics both for exploration and combat etc...

The game is never GREAT but it doesn't have any awful parts other than that beginning flashback, and even that makes a little more sense when you get further into the story (though it should have been significantly shorter.)

Unless things drastically improve this will not be my game of the year but it will probably crack my top 10.

It is definitely the best intentional throwback RPG I have ever played. Much better than Chained Echos or Ara Fell or any of the others.

This seems like it has been a pretty big hit so there will probably be a sequel (they are already talking DLC) but frankly I would prefer to see something else. Maybe still in the RPG genre but more of a spiritual successor. I feel like RPG straight sequels are usually a let down because part of what makes RPGs so great is the world building.

I have like 5 hours remaining, and I've lost track of how many "this part rules" moments there were. Really, really enjoying the story and writing (which I thought was a strength of The Messenger, as well).

Occasionally a dungeon runs 10 minutes too long, and I still think Sabotage needs to improve its fast travel philosophy. But it's a top 3 game for me this year.

@csl316: The fast travel thing in these games, man...I love both of them but come ON. I even went into my second playing of the Messenger (first since releae) intent on being like "I'm going to not get in my own head about how dull back tracking can get and instead try to just enjoy the amazing music and scenery" and just like in Sea odlf Stars I started to lose my shit when EVEN WHEN YOU CAN FLY ON THE WORLD MAP it still requires SO MUCH BACKTRACKING.

Still, love the game. I'm just 40 now and nothing makes me more crazy in games than feeling like time is needlessly being wasted.

I've now finished the main story though I guess there's a true ending I'm not far from getting so I'll probably do that too.

Overall I think it's a very solid game. Like an 8.5 out of 10. The combat gets pretty repetitive by the end (true of almost every RPG), and I felt like the main characters never had much of a personality. There are a few nice plot twists and some of the other party members are pretty likable so those blemishes aren't too terrible. It's definitely a very good RPG, and the first of these faux 32-bit RPGs that I've felt compelled to finish so it's a nice achievement by an excellent developer, but it's not GOTY material for me personally.

I still feel like I'd rather see a different RPG from this team than a direct sequel, but that's at least in part because I find the protagonists so bland.

Did the game just bug out on me? I put it down to play some Cyberpunk after playing about 3 hours. I was at the boss of the Elder Mist Trials, where you collect the 3 relics from the 3 different portals. I remember fighting the boss once, dying, then saving and turning it off cause it was getting late. Last night I turned it on and all the platform portals are there again. According to videos I checked, the platforms are supposed to turn into a relic and then activate the boss once you have all 3.

I went through all the portals and there are no relics to grab anymore but the portals don't disappear. I don't see any relics in my inventory either. I couldn't find anything else online. Does this sound bugged to you? Or am I missing something? I would be really sad to put this down as I have no desire to start it again and go through the long prologue.

@spacemanspiff00: My recollection is that the portals remain after you use them (so that you can go back and collect anything you missed, partially for trophies/achievements etc...) so can you just go back to where the boss is and fight him? Have you tried leaving the area, looking around, and returning? I don't think the portals still being there without relics sounds like a bug, that's how it was for me, but you should be able to find the boss again and fight him, maybe talking to him outside or somewhere near to trigger the fight?

I don't know that part because I'm a super l33t gamer who took down the boss on my first try due to my incredible l33tness.

@bigsocrates: From what I can tell from watching a video the platforms do transform into relics and there is supposed to be a thing that floats up that you click on and it asks you if you are prepared. When you click yes the little orb thing flies into the center relic and starts the boss fight. For me, its still the stairs that lead up to the portals and all the relics are gone already inside them. I've tried resting at the fire right behind them, as well as leaving and returning to the area. No such luck.

@spacemanspiff00: Hmm. It's a little hard for me to envision this partially because I played this portion a long time ago but have you tried just walking around clicking "X" or "A" or whatever (don't know what platform you're playing on, probably Stadia) in the room? You might have to place the relics before it triggers the mist fight? I seem to remember that.

Did the video walkthrough show anything like that? This game is pretty technically proficient and this doesn't seem like something that would be missed in testing.

This is what the room looks like for me on a save after clearing the trials. Anything different here? Have you tried clicking on the center symbol or whatever to see if that resummons the mist? This is also something that the SOS Reddit might know better. Good luck duder, it's a great game so I hope you figure it out, but like I said I wouldn't THINK this was a bug, just something unituitive.

Also, I know it's not helpful now, but it's a useful reminder not to only use one save slot if you get multiple.

@bigsocrates:

This is what its supposed to look like. Mine still just has the platforms. Nothing to click on either. Thought maybe I beat him and forgot but the mist isn't at the spot after the fight. I did have 2 saves but I usually update both before I shut it off so I don't have one before where I am at.

Video timestamp doesn't want to save so its at about 8m13s

@spacemanspiff00: Unless you're playing on Switch your trophy/achievement list should tell you if you beat him, I think.

I would have thought that if you lost to the Elder Mist you'd get a game over of some kind. Weird. Sorry I couldn't be of any help. I hope you figure it out. The Reddit might have some ideas, otherwise maybe an email to customer support? That's something they may patch and the game is definitely still being patched, though it's not an immediate solution obviously.

@bigsocrates: HA, so I discovered my problem. Apparently I did beat the boss and talk to him down below, where he gives you instructions on how to proceed, and just plum forgot all about it. I didn't realize you had to stand on that gem and hold the left trigger to move the light thing to create the bridge. Oops lol. I never watched that far in the video as I had zero recollection of beating him. It was after midnight in my defense. All's well that ends well, I guess. *face palm*

@spacemanspiff00: I can't believe Sabotage designed a game that doesn't remind you exactly where you are in it or remind you to watch walkthrough videos until you get up to the point where you actually are. And people are calling this piece of buggy garbage a GOTY candidate? I mean it doesn't even have basic QOL features like a developer coming to your house to say "hey, man, did you forget where you got to in the game last night? Here, let me recap..."

@bigsocrates: Sabotage studios, Indeed.

Finished the game, went back for the true ending and easter egg, and this is a lock for my GOTY unless Alan Wake II blows me away to a ridiculous extent. It’s funny hearing how competitive 2023 was supposed to be and then having an easier time picking my #1 in any year besides the Hades year. I’m not a very nostalgic person so it really felt like it stands up on its own merits, not just referencing the Chrono series (though it certainly did a lot of that). Whenever I have time to do so, I’ll want to replay this game.

Garl fuckin’ rules, and his theme song is my track of the year in game soundtracks.