"You want what you’ve always wanted, but you also want something new. You want things to look like they always have, but you want the buzz of the new. Contradictions? No problem. They come with the territory. But is it possible to ask, and is it even possible to deliver something for everyone?"

That was Nintendo of America president Reggie Fils-Aime at its E3 2011 press conference, as the company made its pitch for merging the hardcore and the casual.

Sega and Nintendo are not very different, both Japanese companies with nostalgia-fueled legacies that help and haunt them.

Sega can't be an easy company to run. Fans are rabid, unrelenting. No Sonic game will satisfy them (though one could argue they haven't been very good), and without fail, every Facebook update has someone demanding a new Shenmue. But do people really want a new big-budget Shenmue, or just think they want one? At what point does the scale tip in favor of pushing something into production? 10,000 Facebook likes?

Former Sega of Europe leader Mike Hayes stepped into the role of running Sega's European and American divisions two years ago. When I talked with Hayes at E3, he described the past few years as a reconstruction. In order to face the future, Sega had to catch up to the present.

"A lot of what we've done in the past two years has been work underneath the water, rather than the swan on the top," said Hayes, as we spoke in one of E3's private meeting rooms, above the roaring show floor, overflowing with pedestrians. "It's the paddling underneath. [EA CEO] John Riccitello mentioned it at the Nintendo conference--it's about transition, and that's the key thing for us. How do we take the IP that's particularly strong at Sega and how do we bring that on to the different platforms [such as Facebook, iOS], rather than just the consoles we're used to?"

A look around Sega's booth at E3 shows a company with scattered priorities. Anarchy Reigns, a multiplayer focused brawler from Platinum Games, a development team founded by former Capcom employees, harking back to when Japan was gaming HQ. Aliens: Colonial Marines, Sega's push to forge an identity around an existing movie property away from the day-of-release game movie business that's seen less and less support from savvy consumers. Sonic Generations, the latest attempt by Sega to please old school fans and today's youth.

I joked about listing off a series of franchises Sega hasn't touched in years and asking for individual updates. Jet Set Radio? Panzer Dragoon? Phantasy Star? Seaman? Skies of Arcadia? ToeJam & Earl? Hayes, and the public relations girl, both laughed. Then, they both sighed.

"We listen and we think [about if] there is a real market opportunity," he said, "but the key thing is...there's a great fondness, but to bring it into the modern world is quite a tricky thing to do. In many instances, it's a very expensive thing to do to try and get to that point. We need to be quite smart. A lot of what we're doing, for example, on XBLA and PSN, is looking at reimagined IP. We can do that far more successfully and more reasonably and actually give players both a bit of nostalgia and a sort of up to date taste of how we can use that technology."

It's not as simple as identifying a fondly remember franchise and slapping a new developer on it. Golden Axe and Vectorman reboots both imploded. Did you play NiGHTS 2? Heck, look at what happened to Namco Bandai's Splatterhouse--that even had two assigned developers. Memories deceive, and it takes a talented developer to channel what made something magical in decades past and bring that up to speed. Duke Nukem Forever finally launched this week. That was worth the wait, right?

"We're really drilling back into the homeland of Sega," said Heyes. "We're very pleased with the progress, but as with all things, it takes time. It takes time. I think, certainly, this year, we're in good shape to perform well in the market. [...] The good news is Sega does have a lot of IP. It may well be that we unlock some of those that we haven't actually seen for a long time, and bringing them back on the new platforms that we have."

Sega has tried reboots in a box, ala NiGHTS 2 and Outrun 2. The company has seen more hits than misses on Xbox Live and PlayStation Network, where the games of Sega's past are more primed for reinvention that doesn't alienate those who've demanded their return in the first place. And you might not have liked Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1, but it did sell very well for Sega.

There will be more episodic Sonic, but also more reinventions of classics.

"You'll see a lot more being reimagined and reduxed on XBLA on PSN over the next two years," he said. "[...] We listen a lot to what people want and we've tried, in the past, with some great success and with less success to try and reimagine those. As an example, we're bringing Shinobi onto 3DS, which so far has seem to have gone down pretty well--it's a high-quality game. Hopefully, we do realize that for the consumer that likes that--that it's a fair representation of what we remember Shinobi to be."

Even though Hayes has been asked about Shenmue dozens of times, I wanted to touch on the subject, but only to propose how Sega wrestles with the fan demands against the marketplace.

"[With] a $50 million reimagination a Shenmue...are we going to achieve something that, at the end of the day, players are happy with?" he said, letting the question linger, as if asking himself.

Because even when you give fans what they want, maybe that's not what they wanted at all.

"You want what you’ve always wanted, but you also want something new. You want things to look like they always have, but you want the buzz of the new. Contradictions? No problem. They come with the territory. But is it possible to ask, and is it even possible to deliver something for everyone?"

That was Nintendo of America president Reggie Fils-Aime at its E3 2011 press conference, as the company made its pitch for merging the hardcore and the casual.

Sega and Nintendo are not very different, both Japanese companies with nostalgia-fueled legacies that help and haunt them.

Sega can't be an easy company to run. Fans are rabid, unrelenting. No Sonic game will satisfy them (though one could argue they haven't been very good), and without fail, every Facebook update has someone demanding a new Shenmue. But do people really want a new big-budget Shenmue, or just think they want one? At what point does the scale tip in favor of pushing something into production? 10,000 Facebook likes?

Former Sega of Europe leader Mike Hayes stepped into the role of running Sega's European and American divisions two years ago. When I talked with Hayes at E3, he described the past few years as a reconstruction. In order to face the future, Sega had to catch up to the present.

"A lot of what we've done in the past two years has been work underneath the water, rather than the swan on the top," said Hayes, as we spoke in one of E3's private meeting rooms, above the roaring show floor, overflowing with pedestrians. "It's the paddling underneath. [EA CEO] John Riccitello mentioned it at the Nintendo conference--it's about transition, and that's the key thing for us. How do we take the IP that's particularly strong at Sega and how do we bring that on to the different platforms [such as Facebook, iOS], rather than just the consoles we're used to?"

A look around Sega's booth at E3 shows a company with scattered priorities. Anarchy Reigns, a multiplayer focused brawler from Platinum Games, a development team founded by former Capcom employees, harking back to when Japan was gaming HQ. Aliens: Colonial Marines, Sega's push to forge an identity around an existing movie property away from the day-of-release game movie business that's seen less and less support from savvy consumers. Sonic Generations, the latest attempt by Sega to please old school fans and today's youth.

I joked about listing off a series of franchises Sega hasn't touched in years and asking for individual updates. Jet Set Radio? Panzer Dragoon? Phantasy Star? Seaman? Skies of Arcadia? ToeJam & Earl? Hayes, and the public relations girl, both laughed. Then, they both sighed.

"We listen and we think [about if] there is a real market opportunity," he said, "but the key thing is...there's a great fondness, but to bring it into the modern world is quite a tricky thing to do. In many instances, it's a very expensive thing to do to try and get to that point. We need to be quite smart. A lot of what we're doing, for example, on XBLA and PSN, is looking at reimagined IP. We can do that far more successfully and more reasonably and actually give players both a bit of nostalgia and a sort of up to date taste of how we can use that technology."

It's not as simple as identifying a fondly remember franchise and slapping a new developer on it. Golden Axe and Vectorman reboots both imploded. Did you play NiGHTS 2? Heck, look at what happened to Namco Bandai's Splatterhouse--that even had two assigned developers. Memories deceive, and it takes a talented developer to channel what made something magical in decades past and bring that up to speed. Duke Nukem Forever finally launched this week. That was worth the wait, right?

"We're really drilling back into the homeland of Sega," said Heyes. "We're very pleased with the progress, but as with all things, it takes time. It takes time. I think, certainly, this year, we're in good shape to perform well in the market. [...] The good news is Sega does have a lot of IP. It may well be that we unlock some of those that we haven't actually seen for a long time, and bringing them back on the new platforms that we have."

Sega has tried reboots in a box, ala NiGHTS 2 and Outrun 2. The company has seen more hits than misses on Xbox Live and PlayStation Network, where the games of Sega's past are more primed for reinvention that doesn't alienate those who've demanded their return in the first place. And you might not have liked Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1, but it did sell very well for Sega.

There will be more episodic Sonic, but also more reinventions of classics.

"You'll see a lot more being reimagined and reduxed on XBLA on PSN over the next two years," he said. "[...] We listen a lot to what people want and we've tried, in the past, with some great success and with less success to try and reimagine those. As an example, we're bringing Shinobi onto 3DS, which so far has seem to have gone down pretty well--it's a high-quality game. Hopefully, we do realize that for the consumer that likes that--that it's a fair representation of what we remember Shinobi to be."

Even though Hayes has been asked about Shenmue dozens of times, I wanted to touch on the subject, but only to propose how Sega wrestles with the fan demands against the marketplace.

"[With] a $50 million reimagination a Shenmue...are we going to achieve something that, at the end of the day, players are happy with?" he said, letting the question linger, as if asking himself.

Because even when you give fans what they want, maybe that's not what they wanted at all.

dreamcast

Dreamcast isn't as good as people remember.

There's a typo in the caption for the final picture.  Should be "mulls over", not "mull sover." 
 
Pretty interesting article all around

Why would anyone want a remake of anything from Sega? They've shown they can't do it.

yeah shenmue isn't actually that good.

Sega should get away from the nostalgia trips and just do new IPs or newer games sequels, it's cool that they think a lot about what remakes they should do and not just listen to fans and remake every game that was good in the past.

As someone who played threw both shenmue's more then once, yes I do want another one. Fuck yu suzuki for ending that second one the way he did without knowing if he was going to make  a third one.

In a similar manner to DNF, Shenmue III will never fully appease both newcomers and fans of the original games if it were to come out. 
 
Bloody quick time events...
 
Although it would be a damn site better than the quick-time fest found in Heavy Rain or Ninja Gaiden III apparently.

In a similar manner to DNF, Shenmue III will never fully appease both newcomers and fans of the original games if it were to come out.   Bloody quick time events...  Although it would be a damn site better than the quick-time fest found in Heavy Rain or Ninja Gaiden III apparently.

Good article, thanks Patrick!

Very accurate article, a good read.
 
I must confess I don't think Sega are capable of creating remakes that have the spirit of the original AKA the reason that fan wanted them remade in the first place.

MAKE NEW GAMES.  NEW!

I feel the Yakuza series is as close to a new Shenmue as we're going to get. But I would kill for another Jet Set Radio.

Im not one to toss out phrases like "you dont get it" but I will with Shenmue. You either get it or you dont. Shenmue itself is not a great game, its not even a good game but it is amazing for what it is and its one of the most important games of my life. Shenmue changed how I played games and how I valued games.  
 
I will play more Shenmue. Im sure I wont be happy if they change it, but I will play it. Mostly I just want closure to the story. Shenmue is an interactive novel but most of the chapters may forever go missing and that is the worst thing for someone heavily invested. 

@HelicopterSpy said:

Dreamcast isn't as good as people remember.

No, the Dreamcast was an excellent console, with a lot of very unique (and good) games. Like the article says though, a lot of those games wouldn't work today. As much as I'd love a new Jet Set Radio game, how well would that sell to the masses?

It's the problem with Shenmue too, they could invest millions into creating big budget sequels.. and the interest may only be from a few hardcore fans. I'd still love to see it happen, but I don't blame Sega for shying away.

Sonic Colors was the best thing Sega's put out in years outside of Platinum's Bayonetta and Vanquish. And it sold pretty well if I remember correctly.

@Dizzyhippos: I'd agree somewhat, I mean catching leaves, driving forklifts and airing out books is still great monotous gameplay even if it isn't the focus, I'm just making the comparison based on the whole experience. I doubt wrapping up the Shenmue story arc would actually be that beneficial to both sets of game players (new or old to the franchise) because of the timeframe and hype/expectations.  Irrespective of the focus on narrative, characterisation and the amount of verisimiltude however, quick-time events are still abhorrent.

As much as I want a new Shenmue I know it's not going to happen. Just not going to sell well enough, it's been too long.
 
I do feel Jet Set Radio has a lot of potential though.

I have the Yakuza series. I'm happy.

@HelicopterSpy said:

Dreamcast isn't as good as people remember.

It's much better. It was eclipsed by Sony who stifled it @ retailers.

The Yakuza series, despite its different thematic bent, has in terms of its gameplay and open world atmosphere grown into what a Shenmue 3 could be.

Great article! Keep up the amazing work!

I doubt people really want a Shenmue.  People bitched and moaned over Yakuza being edited but the last one sold less than 50,000 in North America.  I think any Shenmue game will be immediately compared to open world games (even if it isn't supposed to be) and that will diminish its value in many people's eyes.  If Sega wants to make another Shenmue game and there is high demand for it in Japan, then they can do that, but don't invest in one because of some vocal fans in the Western market. 

There's no doubt that the Dreamcast was an important console with a lot of wildly ambitious software, and it changed gaming for the better in a lot of ways. As a prototype it was unmatched, but the games that built on the Dreamcast's ideas are way better than the Dreamcast's ideas themselves.

Good read. It seems like to Nintendo and Sega, a "new experience" is simply putting their franchises on a new console. Instead of inventing new characters or franchises, Nintendo has simply found different ways to play their old ones. Mario 64 was playing Mario in 3D, Mario Galaxy was playing Mario with a Wii-Mote (and in space), and I'll bet there will be a similar "transition" game for the Wii U. It's a profitable business model, and it does keep things relatively interesting, but not interesting enough to get people onto the bandwagon if they've already decided they don't care for a Zelda game. 
 
Sega seems to be a much less effective version of this model, bringing old games to the downloadable front, and constantly trying to resurrect their spiky blue roadkill. But then again, Sega has created some pretty good new games over the past few years, like the Valkyria Chronicles series.  
 
From these models, fans have slowly grown more and more tired of these old franchises, however, I think that's could be bypassed by doing more with old franchises people like. Nintendo still hasn't released Mother 3 and half the Fire Emblem games in the states, and a new copy of Skies of Arcadia goes for over $100 on Amazon. There are more loving, independent women to whore out, and while Nintendo may haverealized that over thepast few years, Sega still needs to see that, although a third Shenmue may be too expensive, a downloadable Shenmue compilation and remake--with possibly a redone ending--would be enough to satiate its fans.

Dreamcast isn't as good as people remember.

I'm sure someone somewhere could sell Jet Set Radio to a wider audience. They just need a new hook and I don't know if graffiti is the thing.

For that game it was more the tone, and just insane way you would flow though the levels. I really want that bright and shiny future-tokyo pop aesthetic, it sold me on cel shading and was a blast to roll though.

@Ygg said:

@HelicopterSpy said:

Dreamcast isn't as good as people remember.

Yes a 12 year+ old console isn't as good as it seemed back then. What else is new? Honestly what a stupid ass reply. Nothing is generally as good as you remember it to be because guess what? Things evolve and get better. At the time nothing touched the Dreamcast. It slaughtered the N64 and PlayStation, nothing looked anywhere near as good. Not even PC really.

You constantly seem to give idiotic replies...

He didn't mean compared to now, he meant back then. People seem to look at it as if it were the savoir of all consoles, but it only had about 8 games worth playing.

Okay, I can understand where people are coming from in regards to a Shenmue 3. For years I have wanted Shenmue 3 mainly due to the epic story being told with the first two games which was building towards a fantastic conclusion....but here's the rub. Do I want a third game or do I just want to know the conclusion regardless of the medium. At this point, I don't even know.

Okay, fuck all these people trying to tell me what I want; that I don't really want a Shenmue III. Fuck you, yes I do. 

Good read! Small error: "That was the wait, wasn't it?" - I take it a [worth] was supposed to be inserted in there.

I am not a Sega fanboy of yore- however they have published some of my favorite games in the past couple of years. Valkyria Chronicles, Yakuza, Vanquish, Alpha Protocol (despite all of its issues)... Always sad when games I love don't see huge sales.

For now, I can only dream.....

I agree with Patrick and the CEO: do we really want any of those sequels? Nintendo has the Midas touch when it comes to properly tweaking old formulas to move them forward without loosing the feel of the game. They are however the exception.

I loved sega games as a kid, especially in the arcade. Vrtua fighter, racing, sega rally dominated much of my arcade time. The Saturn and the dreamcast too had a great lineup. Sega made great games during a time when story and deep mechanics could take a backseat to really strong, repetitious mechanics and fast pacing. However, I have pretty much zero interest in seeing any of those titles rebooted (perhaps with the exception of Jet Set Radio which is honestly only a generation old anyway). People need to accept that many of the games we played as kids that were amazing in their time and will not directly map to todays production styles and player sensibilities.

While a company like Sony has cut ties with man PS1 franchises I loved around the same time as the Saturn, and instead gone on to create great new franchises, Sega seems to be holding on... In many ways I'm surprised they are still around as a company given the mediocre quality of many of their titles.

In many ways I don't understand the desire to see old franchises reinvented. Often it will only come with a whole sale reworking (see Fallout 3) I'd rather see the HD remakes or virtualized versions of the old games and see new fresh franchise built from scratch to fit in to the world of modern games. You don't run the risk of upsetting fans and having to fight strange and unattainable expectations and instead you can perhaps bring forth what made the original games memorable in the first place: the chance to explore something new (both mechanic and IP wise) for the first time.

Even if Shenmue 3 sucked, I would buy it. I need closure to that story, I NEED IT.

It really raise's some good questions like what is sega going to do with all them old ip's, It's all good making a new skies of arcadia or a new jet set radio but if they don't do it well then people won't buy the next installments , Thus while trying to please the fans they kill there ip's off.

In many ways I don't understand the desire to see old franchises reinvented. Often it will only come with a whole sale reworking (see Fallout 3) I'd rather see the HD remakes or virtualized versions of the old games and see new fresh franchise built from scratch to fit in to the world of modern games. You don't run the risk of upsetting fans and having to fight strange and unattainable expectations and instead you can perhaps bring forth what made the original games memorable in the first place: the chance to explore something new (both mechanic and IP wise) for the first time.

@Ygg said:

@HelicopterSpy said:

Dreamcast isn't as good as people remember.

Yes a 12 year+ old console isn't as good as it seemed back then. What else is new? Honestly what a stupid ass reply. Nothing is generally as good as you remember it to be because guess what? Things evolve and get better. At the time nothing touched the Dreamcast. It slaughtered the N64 and PlayStation, nothing looked anywhere near as good. Not even PC really.

You constantly seem to give idiotic replies...

He didn't mean compared to now, he meant back then. People seem to look at it as if it were the savoir of all consoles, but it only had about 8 games worth playing.

I barely comment here but Sega management just makes me rage. 
 
Every reboot/sequel attempt resulted in unoriginal and bad quality games. 
This is not Sega trying to please fans, it's them trying to grab onto the current money making genre and pulling fans with a nostalgic name. 

Golden Axe: Beast Rider felt rushed and monotonous. Why does it exist in a world of God of War if it doesn't do anything new or better. Oh you ride beasts? Is it good? Oh, riding beasts suck? Well, I'm sold! (Put Namco's Splatterhouse reboot on this same page)
 
Did anyone saw any footage of the Vectorman reboot? It had nothing of what made the original game great. The genesis games were great graphical achievements and fluid gameplay. The PS2 reboot? I think I saw that game, multiple times. 
 
NiGHTS 2 was awful, it could just have been more NiGHTS, but they had to break it, add useless on foot levels and completely fail at reproducing the previous game's mechanics. 
 
Fans just want to see the end of Shenmue's storyline. Nowadays, Shenmue is the type of project that's actually cheaper to produce than others. It's a Majora's Mask, it's a Persona 4, you have these set-piece scenarios, you lengthen the player's progress with a time constrain and force him to explore these places over and over again. The fighting mechanics are done, just use the ones from the latest Virtua Fighter. QTEs aren't new, but they're part of Shenmue, so have something more elaborate like Fahrenheit (Indigo Prophecy). 
 
I could go on, but I wont. I don't even care about Shenmue. I just get upset that a company thinks they need to waste so much money on a reboot, throwing random high numbers around and past failures so that they can justify how they just don't feel like a new Shenmue would sell. 
 
You know what? Did them save the source code of the previous games or did those fucks lost it like the did with the original Space Harrier and Hang On boards? Use that! Go on, emulate that shit on LIVE and PSN, add a new chapter and voilá! Shenmue Trilogy for Summer 2012!

Shenmue wouldn't exactly have looked out of place at E3 would it? QTEs are apparently all the rage again.

The $50 million dollar question is why the fuck do they think they need to spend $50 million dollars making a Shenmue game today? That's a totally inappropriate budget for the type of sales that game is likely to achieve. If a game like Heavy Rain can be made and can succeed in the current market -on a single platform no less- then there's no reason a good (this is key) Shenmue game couldn't.

If they make it on some silly Red Dead or GTA sized budget then no they probably wouldn't see their money back. If they made it on a normal budget and only needed to sell Heavy Rain numbers to break even then it could do fine. Of course, whether or not Sega could make a good Shenmue game on a normal budget (or any good game on any budget anymore) is a different matter.

@SuperSambo said:

@Ygg said:

@HelicopterSpy said:

Dreamcast isn't as good as people remember.

Yes a 12 year+ old console isn't as good as it seemed back then. What else is new? Honestly what a stupid ass reply. Nothing is generally as good as you remember it to be because guess what? Things evolve and get better. At the time nothing touched the Dreamcast. It slaughtered the N64 and PlayStation, nothing looked anywhere near as good. Not even PC really.

You constantly seem to give idiotic replies...

He didn't mean compared to now, he meant back then. People seem to look at it as if it were the savoir of all consoles, but it only had about 8 games worth playing.

It had a LOT more than eight games worth playing, and was only around for two years. It had an incredible lineup of games for such a short lifespan. People are always going to deify any underappreciated great thing, but the Dreamcast was still miles ahead of the other consoles during that time.

There was a Vectorman reboot? When?

i think it's worth noting that Sega published the recent free-to-play game, Spiral Knights. So that should help them out, the game seems to be doing pretty well so far.

i know it's a drop in the pond, but at least they're taking pretty considerable risks like that on fringe games

Shenmue was awesome!

Sonic 4: EP 1 cost 15 US Dollars; I am thankful it didn't sell well. SEGA publishing Platinum Games titles is good because Platinum Games titles should be published. As far as IPs, I guess I only care about Yakuza, Skies of Arcadia, and Valkyria Chronicles. SEGA said they aren't localizing Valkyria Chronicles 3, and I'm not happy about that. I skipped VC2 for the moment, but VC3 looks fantastic.