The Giant Beastcast: Episode 278

Thanks for talking about last week's show Abby, it was well said and I can't overstate how important it was to hear that

You all should really take down the last episode.
I find platforming an abuser objectionable.

If you can't for legal reasons you can at least reupload with a disclaimer appended to the front. This non-material non-apology does not cut it.

Abby was excellent in her messaging. We all make mistakes.

More excitingly, Vinny got a Domino! I'll translate, it is like getting a 3080 graphics card...but for woodworking!

Didn't even hear about any of this until now, to be honest. But it's good to know and I'm glad it was addressed up front.

GB, love you all, for real. Abby, it’s clear your intentions were good. Never doubted that. And mistakes happen, and that’s okay. I really appreciate you addressing it on this week's Beastcast.

But, for a lot of people, myself included, being humble, and actually apologizing, saying, “I’m sorry” goes a long way. Recognizing a mistake, addressing an issue, and clarifying intentions is critical. So thank you for doing that. But then you all just moved on.. There was no apology.

HD Vinny!

Thanks Abby, you're one of the good ones, and I know you're doing your best - even when sometimes things feel like they suck.

Vinny's setup is on point.

Not surprised people can’t let last week go even after it’s covered and done.

You heard incorrectly. She said the podcast hurt people and she didnt want that. She admitted to failing at her goal of making an inclusive podcast. I think her intent is overwhelmingly clear and that she wished it hadn’t happened and would make it right if she could. She made a good faith effort screen the guests and didn’t find this stuff.

Also, these are not prepared remarks, so the language isn’t going to be prefect.

I mean, they should be prepared remarks, because this is serious, and even if no preparation went into these remarks, saying the word "sorry" shouldn't be so out of character for a person, that it doesn't naturally come up during an attempt to make a bad thing right.

@mozzle: that has never been how the site has addressed this stuff. They speak about it like human beings, try to have a dialogue and make their intent clear. If you think that isn’t sufficient, I 100% know you can reach out to Vinny through the site and voice your concerns.

And another war begins as folks are gonna get blamed for being disappointed with the lack of an actual apology from Abby,

On one hand, I get it, as the words “I’m sorry” hold great weight and impact for many.

But on the other hand, I mean unless I’m wrong when everyone else messed up, none of them never literally said “I’m sorry” but reaffirmed they will do better but mistakes will be made along the way.

And listening to how Abby said it, it did seem like genuinely sincere and a genuine acknowledgement that mistakes were made

It was well said abby, glad this didn’t get swept under the rug

ALEXIS ALEXANDER???!!?!

Thank you for addressing all this directly, Abby. I guess some people need to literally hear the words, "I'm sorry", but that sentiment came across through what you said just fine for me.

I'm tired of seeing unsavory types saying sorry like some throwaway line that just ends up watering down the meaning. It shouldn't be so easy to drop a sorry and move on from something.

Thanks again for talking about this.

You're the best Abby!

Abby! Your office is SO COOL!

I felt like Abby's apology (I did take it as an apology) seemed really sincere, it must suck to be unwittingly taken advantage of by a seemingly shitty person. This is me reading into things obviously but Abby seemed quite affected for a little while afterwards and took a bit to warm back up to her regular bubbly self. I genuinely felt for her, and I feel for people affected by the kinds of shitty people they are trying to avoid having on the show even as I understand that it is impossible for me to truly effectively appreciate just how they are affected.

Mary Kish and Rhiana were great last week, I hope they get to come back and be on the show again. Organisations DEDICATED to background checking individuals can and often do miss or have nasty people slip through, so expecting a crew like Giant Bomb to have a 100% win rate there is just unrealistic and i'm glad to hear them looking to continue to do their best.

I appreciate the the sentiments, although I wish the episode didn't air or at least altered to state what happened. I understand mistakes happen, but when they do you must address them and take action and not let it fester, because this community has always had its toxic side: the treatment of Patrick and Abby for example. I still don't quite grasp that this went almost one week without anyone saying anything, videos and podcasts went up as if nothing happened. If you can't take action to say something, you let the toxic side of this community overpower any real statement on what the giantbomb crew feels, so people like me feel less safe around here. The amount of comments that sidestepped the allegations was incredibly troubling to me, there were so many that would easily overlook the issue or asking for "receipts" just turned my stomach. As a person thats gone through some abuse of my own, I can tell you that I don't have receipts to show you! That guest's past comments hurt me, I am not vocal about that part of myself, maybe in the future when I have the courage to do so. I love Mary Kish, went through all of Resident Kinevil, I wish I got a chance to know more about Riana but I can't support that episode.

I shouldn't have to say any of this, I shouldn't have to feel any of this, the community has to grow or I just cant stick around anymore. I'm sorry, I just love giantbomb and want everyone to be ok. This is why I dont want to comment, i get rambley.

Should someone tell Abby that everyone's first match in Spellbreak is against bots?

I dunno, I still think it was a bit much to put Abby's feet to the fire over what basically amounted to obscure Twitter beef. I genuinely had a difficult time finding *anything* about it.

Also. Sorry to hear about Thelma, Alex. I hope you are doing okay! We know she meant a lot to you.

Sorry to hear about your cat Alex, losing an animal is always hard.

Also Abby I appreciate your candor and I know you had good intentions. I was totally unaware of this situation and I was blindsided by it too so I understand how it could happen (I'm bi myself if that matters to anyone reading). I appreciate that you tried to make Giant Bomb a more inclusive space even though that is not how it worked out this time, and I hope this doesn't dull your efforts to continue to do so in the future. Many of us including me deeply appreciate what you bring to the site.

To simply summarize Abby's response:

1. Mistakes were made.

2. I regret it because I don't want to hurt anyone, or having anyone feel they are not welcome at GB.

3. While I try my best, I can't vet everyone thoroughly.

4. I will continue to invite many different guest on the Beastcast, because it's important for site growth.

5. Therefore another Merritt K might happen again.

My final thoughts on this matter is pretty much what I've been saying. I don't think Abby knew about the allegations against Merritt K. So I'll give her the benefit of the doubt. I don't think the Podcast should be taken down because that would be unjust to Mary Kish and Rhiana. I also kind of agree with Abby about taking it down would be sweeping it under the rug and pretending it never happened.

However, number 5 has its limits to me. If another Merritt K happens a year from now or couple of years, that is one thing. But if it happens every other major guest podcast, then the benefit from me wears out and Abby will have some explaining to do, and for many others as well I'm sure. I'm all for second chances and abilities to learn from mistakes, but those has limits. And this goes for the whole crew not just Abby. They set the standard about zero tolerance against abusers, now they must follow it though.

@av_gamer: If you want them to be infallible then you best step out now dog.

Abby, your statement was fantastic. Please keep up the good work you're fabulous and this queer man loves you.

So sorry to hear about Thelma, Alex. My deepest condolences

@plan6: Exactly, no apology. Just, “I didn’t mean to hurt anyone,” the statement a half step up from “I’m sorry you’re offended.”

Too bad she did say she didn’t feel she deserves to have this count against her, and that she and Vinny believe platforming a bigoted abuser isn’t objectionable.

@ericsmith: Again, if you feel that it wasn't sufficient, I'm not the guy should should be talking to. There are plenty of ways to get in touch with the GB crew, and from experience, they do let folks know the criticism was received.

I don't know, man. I can understand the at least some of the objections were raised in good faith. But I cannot shake the feeling that some people have gotten a little too into the rush that comes along with righteous indignation. I mean, what are we really talking about here? This was a guest on a podcast. It's apparent that they're not coming back. Why do you need Abby to genuflect? Is this really about "platforming," or about establishing a moral superiority that gets your heart rate going?

I hope people take some time to examine whether they are genuinely concerned about anything, or whether they are enjoying themselves.

The problem with that statement is that the GB crew themselves judge other people and organizations like they should be infallible. You can't have it both ways. You can't cheer when GB call people out outside of their bubble, but then act different when they themselves get called out. People were right to put Abby on notice about Merritt K. She responded to it in a manner I will accept, but I will be paying attention from now on.

On a lighter note...

If GBE get sponsorship from Icebreaker or Macpac (for their merino goodness), I'll start listening to the ad-supported episodes instead! :)

(And yes - I find that you can wear merino tees for up to a week straight(!) without any accumulated stink. Great for camping, or just travelling super-light!)

I think you guys should be less inclusive.

@av_gamer: This is my problem with this mess. “People make mistakes/we’re not going to rush to judgment” is a bad look for a website prone to sanctimony and moralizing.

@relic: It's not like Abby was the one making bigoted comments, she accidentally invited someone onto a podcast who had in the past. And as they stated, there was nothing on the episode that was offensive.

My two cents as a queer, brown person, Abby's efforts to bring more diverse voices to GB have made this feel like a more welcoming place for me. Mary and Riana were amazing guests and I hope we see more pods/ streams like the one last week.

Wow, I'm glad Vinny finally got a RED Camera to film all of his content on! Looks super rad!

@trailnix: This is one of the things that bugs me about people wanting the episode taken down. It is not only Merritt K who they would be removing. Without the controversy, it was an amazing episode. I'm always happy to see Mary jump on and Riana was a great new addition.

@av_gamer

I'm not exactly sure when they've ever said that someone should be infallible? I can't remember a time when they've outright "canceled" someone unless it was egregious and the entire industry at large had condemned that person. I'm genuinely curious when you've felt they've judged someone like they should have been infallible.

In a better world, last week's livestream would've paused halfway through when the allegations started coming in chat. But Abby was flying solo and they were live, it's a weird situation, I get it. I appreciate Abby's apology this week. She means well and works hard to improve GB.

This complaint is probably aimed at Gerstmann: I do not think last week's podcast should be up. It features a known abuser with nothing in the show discussing it. Choosing not to upload it wouldn't have been "erasure"; it would be choosing not to further signal boost an abuser without comment. By choosing to upload it onto the main Beastcast feed with no auditory disclaimer, you chose to give the abuser clout for the week and got your usual traffic and ad revenue off of tainted product. It shows no remorse in action. It was such a cynical decision to make.

Two weeks in a row people act like Abby did something wrong here and nothing she says or does is good enough. Sweet Jesus people, get a grip. Abby's response was near perfect, Vinny's addition was equally helpful. I also agree with Vinny regarding whether or not some of these critiques are in good faith, especially seeing people continue to beat this drum after the crew's response.

Well said @ybbaaabby

@ybbaaabby Your response here was fantastic, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. You did your best, addressed the issue in a timely manner as best you were able, and made your point clear.

Take this for what it is, just one dudes opinion. I didn't listen to last weeks Beastcast at all as I heard about the controversy before I was able, and I couldn't bring myself too. But it wasn't cause of anything you did. You did your best, and apologized as best you could this week. You tackled the issue head on, and did your best to explain yourself. Don't let the trolls that are gonna come out of the woodwork and attack you for it get too yah. Not everyone in your audience are a-holes.

My condolences Alex on your cat's passing.

I think my biggest issue is that this happened after they made a point of saying they would vet guests more thoroughly. Apparently that just doesn't happen at all?

@mab they've discussed this before, but Jeff isn't actually Vinny's boss. So the buck stops with Vinny on whether it goes up or not.

Thanks Abby for talking about last week in such an upfront and genuine manner. Of course you don't want to have anyone on who would hurt someone else, and the reasonable folk out there understand that mistakes happen. Thank you.

Apparently that isn't enough for some on here who still want their pound of flesh. Abby could have tattooed "I'm sorry" onto her forehead and they would be angry about the font.

Abby isn't going anywhere. This thing you think is a big "got ya!" moment, really isn't. There will be female representation on the site still. Get used to it.