@Donos said:

Battlefield 3 is shaping up to not be the kind of game you want to play, therefore it is a total joke?

If you're going to bother writing up a detailed blog post, don't start it with an inflammatory and nonsensical title.

+1 If this where to sum up some pros and cons, in a more readable format it would be much more acceptable. All this thread is, is 10 things I hate about BF3.

Could you just make up your mind?! First you love it then you hate it, then you love it again and so on.

@JEC03 said:

Still there's no point to it at all I would be embarrassed to put that in my game.

Well, it's not your game is it? It's designed by a team of people who collectively have a much better judgement call than you. Would you be embarassed to put anything that is not realistic into your game? You haven't played the game yet. You haven't seen a vehicle regen health in MP yet. You don't know jackshit about whether it's only regens 1 of it's 100 health or all of it. It could be a very well integrated system where, tanks can be disabled but after a period of time they will regen up to 20% hp so that they become functional again.

@Ahmad_Metallic said:

@emergency said:

You haven't even played the game. Yet you complain about things such as how fast an enemy dies. Vehicle and player regen. 15 seconds is a long time to wait, a really long time. In a gun fight you aren't going to have 15 seconds.. sure whatever it stops you NEEDING a medic. Also vehicle regen is very little and you still 100% need engineers to repair. The spotting system will definately get tweaks from BC2's it's still in testing.

Wait, so I have to play the game to know that when i get shot 3 times i'm gonna die? It's been told to me by someone playing the game first hand, how do i need to experience it to know it ?
And to answer you..
1- you don't see a problem in dying almost everytime an enemy sees you? the "i saw you first, you die" gameplay is ok with you?
2- I've watched about 26 leaked alpha videos, all of which had the player regenerating up to 100% without needing a medic, and jumping back into the fight. two of which had #1 on the scoreboard.. no, 15 sec is not a long time to wait and you can afford it in a gun fight.
3- I'm pretty sure i saw an APC heal from 60% to 80%
4- how do you know that the 3D spotting system is getting tweaked and changed?
5- I see you've ignored the spot cones crammed on your screen assisting your aim. what do you have to say about that ?

I feel like it should be restated that not only is the game pre-alpha and not even at the point where they'd be doing serious balancing, but you haven't even played it.\

@Ahmad_Metallic said:

@emergency said:

@Donos said:

Battlefield 3 is shaping up to not be the kind of game you want to play, therefore it is a total joke?

If you're going to bother writing up a detailed blog post, don't start it with an inflammatory and nonsensical title.

+1 If this where to sum up some pros and cons, in a more readable format it would be much more acceptable. All this thread is, is 10 things I hate about BF3.

If you can't see how having a wall-hacking CONE assisting your aim being a problem in a SHOOTER, i dont know what the fuck you're smoking

Wow, I completely forgot that having a blip on my screen telling me where a person was instead was autokilling them!

@Ahmad_Metallic: When will you realize that the things you like and the things that most people like differ greatly? Most of us are just fine with the refinements made to this, as evidenced by the thread of people assaulting you for your rage fits. You can try to spin everything in as negative a light as you want, but not everyone just wants BF2+1. I'm sure plenty of us loved BF2... in 2005. It's not 2005 anymore.

Start phrasing things in a less hateful way and you will not incite riots like this. Just because you don't agree with the direction of a game does not make it a joke.

YOU'RE SUCH A BABY OH MY GOD

Regenerating Tanks? Awesome

@The_Nubster:  You enjoy not having a tool that facilitates communication, dropping dead after 3 taps, having an enemy tank regenerate health after you shoot it, have flying cones that insult your skill and tell you where to shoot, having a squad leader who has no ordering tool whatsoever, and spending an hour capturing flags and healing/reviving team mates and resupplying ammo only not to find your name anywhere on the end-of-round scoreboard but rather see the top killer's name all over the place? 
Ok, like you said, opinions. to each his own 

Regenerating tanks? Fuck that.

@iAmJohn said:

@The_Nubster said:

@JEC03 said:

Vehicle health generation major fail I hope they don't leave that shit in the game that's the most retarded idea ever can you imagine jet camping dear fucking lord.

It's mild regeneration so you're not flying around at 1 health. You still need an engineer to get back to full.

How minor are we talking about here (is it like BC2's health regen where it wouldn't bring you back to full?), and with what kind of window? I could see how maybe bumping you up to 10% health if you're at under that for ten seconds or so (or as a reward for getting a kill) could be a pretty okay equalizer, but there's definitely a fine line here and a reason to possibly be upset.

Think it's more closer to how it works with the tank. It can get immobilized at 1 health, but the regens enough to get moving again, but it would not survive another RPG round. That's the impression I got at least, so if it's similar to planes, you could potentially loose altitude and crash if you're too low before it regenerates enough to get full umph back again. Either way, I think it's more about surviving grenades and a mortar shell (or one machine gun round for a plane), but still be possible to blow up with one RPG round.

@JEC03 said:

Still there's no point to it at all I would be embarrassed to put that in my game.

Well, it's not your game is it? It's designed by a team of people who collectively have a much better judgement call than you. Would you be embarassed to put anything that is not realistic into your game? You haven't played the game yet. You haven't seen a vehicle regen health in MP yet. You don't know jackshit about whether it's only regens 1 of it's 100 health or all of it. It could be a very well integrated system where, tanks can be disabled but after a period of time they will regen up to 20% hp so that they become functional again.

@Cheesebob said:

Regenerating Tanks? Awesome

I know!

@emergency said:

You haven't even played the game. Yet you complain about things such as how fast an enemy dies. Vehicle and player regen. 15 seconds is a long time to wait, a really long time. In a gun fight you aren't going to have 15 seconds.. sure whatever it stops you NEEDING a medic. Also vehicle regen is very little and you still 100% need engineers to repair. The spotting system will definately get tweaks from BC2's it's still in testing.

Wait, so I have to play the game to know that when i get shot 3 times i'm gonna die? It's been told to me by someone playing the game first hand, how do i need to experience it to know it ?
And to answer you..
1- you don't see a problem in dying almost everytime an enemy sees you? the "i saw you first, you die" gameplay is ok with you?
2- I've watched about 26 leaked alpha videos, all of which had the player regenerating up to 100% without needing a medic, and jumping back into the fight. two of which had #1 on the scoreboard.. no, 15 sec is not a long time to wait and you can afford it in a gun fight.
3- I'm pretty sure i saw an APC heal from 60% to 80%
4- how do you know that the 3D spotting system is getting tweaked and changed?
5- I see you've ignored the spot cones crammed on your screen assisting your aim. what do you have to say about that ?

It is essential that they modernize the game for it to be a success finacially and that means taking elements from BC2.

This isn't called modernizing

Yes, you need to actually get in there and play the game before you can make real judgement calls on whether it's balanced or not. You can't just take someone elses opinion. Cause that's all it is. An opinion. You form your own, by yourself.. without help of others. I have absolute faith that they will balance this game well. 2 is your opinion, it's retarded but go with it. 15 seconds is a long ass time when someone knows where you are. It's 15 before it even kicks in... you are going to get rushed, grenaded and flushed out if you try and hide behind a wall for 15 seconds. That was in singleplayer, also it's still alpha.. things can change. It will 100% not be exactly the same as that in BC2. Hell they might make it so that it lasts longer cause the maps are bigger or some shit but it won't just be a carbon copy. I'm afraid to say that a lot of your complaints are modernizing. To modernize a video game atm, you need to make it a lot more accessible because of the type of people who now own consoles. This isn't 2002 where they can tailor this to hardcore pc games. You must for a moment think about the fact that this is coming to consoles, that it has to sell well.. and that things such as commanders and other chain of command simply wouldn't work on console. Hell who knows, they might release some patches after the game is shipped to accomodate for you. Right now, they are pushing to meet the release date and to deliver a polished product.

@Ahmad_Metallic: Have you mentioned these concerns on the Battlefield forums? If they're in alpha, I guarantee DICE wants tons of feedback, and it seems like a number of your complaints could potentially be addressed before release.

@Ahmad_Metallic: I don't need to address your bulletpoints, because I'm not critiquing your blog post. I was making a declarative statement.

Or must EVERYTHING be about you?

@JEC03 said:

@emergency said:

@JEC03 said:

Still there's no point to it at all I would be embarrassed to put that in my game.

Well, it's not your game is it? It's designed by a team of people who collectively have a much better judgement call than you. Would you be embarassed to put anything that is not realistic into your game? You haven't played the game yet. You haven't seen a vehicle regen health in MP yet. You don't know jackshit about whether it's only regens 1 of it's 100 health or all of it. It could be a very well integrated system where, tanks can be disabled but after a period of time they will regen up to 20% hp so that they become functional again.

I don't like noob features in my game and that's exactly what it is.

Go play Arma 2 or BF2 and don't bother buying BF3 in that case. You won't like it, THOSE DAMN NOOBS WITH THEIR DAMN WALLHACK AIMSYSTEM AND REGENERATING INVINCIBLE HEALTH TANK will kill you.

@emergency said:

@JEC03 said:

Still there's no point to it at all I would be embarrassed to put that in my game.

Well, it's not your game is it? It's designed by a team of people who collectively have a much better judgement call than you. Would you be embarassed to put anything that is not realistic into your game? You haven't played the game yet. You haven't seen a vehicle regen health in MP yet. You don't know jackshit about whether it's only regens 1 of it's 100 health or all of it. It could be a very well integrated system where, tanks can be disabled but after a period of time they will regen up to 20% hp so that they become functional again.

I don't like noob features in my game and that's exactly what it is.

@Ahmad_Metallic: Not offence but your obsession for BF3 is becoming somewhat schizophrenic.. might as well waste time thinking on something else and wait for the game to come out before putting out a judgement.

@RiotBananas said:

Also, as someone who played the shit out of BF2 and BC2

BC2 > BF2.

Totally agree, BF2 was great in it's time because was a technical benchmark but It was a deeply flawed game with a lot of balance Issues and weird design choices. Nostalgia makes people memory inaccurate.

@Ahmad_Metallic

said:
@The_Nubster:  You enjoy not having a tool that facilitates communication, dropping dead after 3 taps, having an enemy tank regenerate health after you shoot it, have flying cones that insult your skill and tell you where to shoot, having a squad leader who has no ordering tool whatsoever, and spending an hour capturing flags and healing/reviving team mates and resupplying ammo only not to find your name anywhere on the end-of-round scoreboard but rather see the top killer's name all over the place? 
Ok, like you said, opinions. to each his own 

Wait, so I have to play the game to know that when i get shot 3 times i'm gonna die? It's been told to me by someone playing the game first hand, how do i need to experience it to know it ? 
And to answer you..  
1- you don't see a problem in dying almost everytime an enemy sees you? the "i saw you first, you die" gameplay is ok with you? 
2- I've watched about 26 leaked alpha videos, all of which had the player regenerating up to 100% without needing a medic, and jumping back into the fight. two of which had #1 on the scoreboard.. no, 15 sec is not a long time to wait and you can afford it in a gun fight. 
3- I'm pretty sure i saw an APC heal from 60% to 80% 
4- how do you know that the 3D spotting system is getting tweaked and changed?  
5- I see you've ignored the spot cones crammed on your screen assisting your aim. what do you have to say about that ?

It is essential that they modernize the game for it to be a success finacially and that means taking elements from BC2. 

This isn't called modernizing                                         

I agree with some things you said, but most of these seem like over-reactions and a few stabs at adding more bullet points. You sould have made a more convincing argument if you had made 3 bullet points. Maybe merge a couple that are similar issues and just emphasized the few we know are actually problems. 
 
Personally I have not played the game, so I am not sure how any of this affects ballancing. Clearly you have, and have carefully compiled a list for me to read about how much it totally sucks. Lucky for me, I'm too poor to own this game with everything else I will be playing.

I wasn't really looking forward to it in the first place.

@Ahmad_Metallic said:

@Rolyatkcinmai: Ok, i'll take your advice: Tell me how having a marker on your screen telling you that if you shoot under it, you get a kill, is not a synonym to using an aimbot? If you're inside a house, and the enemy is outside the house and they get spotted, you see their cone moving outside the wall. You know their exact movement through a wall. how is that not a synonym to wallhacking ?

That kind of ridiculous, hyperbolic, inflammatory wording is exactly why people think you're pissed off and raging. It's a feature that has been in two Battlefield games and has become a large part of teamwork. Someone spots someone they can't hit, their teammates clean it up. People love that feature and miss it when they go back to CoD. It's a lot easier than saying "there's a guy over there!" because in a video game you do not have fingers to point.

Wallhacks are a constant view of everyone through walls, not one person for a few seconds. They're also hacks, meaning only one person has them. The targeting features in BF are available and used by everyone.

Do you not see everyone disagreeing with you and trying to get you to chill? Do you really think your opinion is the only one that is fact?

I'm glad you're getting 50+ people piling on now. When I had to defend myself against you alone in another topic on this matter it became arduous.

1) Not having a tool to communicate with: It's called a headset. There's voice chat. Welcome to the future 
2) Dropping dead after 3 taps? Of what? Of an assault rifle? Yeah, getting shot kind of hurts. Besides, have you played the game? And it doesn't matter if 'someone who did' told you that, you haven't experienced it. 
3) Oh, you mean the marker? A tool that communicates the location of an enemy? 
4) Again, have you spent an hour capturing flags/reviving teammates and not having your name appear anywhere on the end-of-round scoreboard? 

@Daiphyer said:

4. The spotting system is probably my favorite new system in BF series. in BC1, many times I'd see a sniper, but have no way of killing him or telling others to kill him, because my gun didn't have the range. In BC2, I could see a sniper, 'spot' him, and have our sniper take care of him. It's teamwork(Back to your original point about "Where is the teamwork") Or I'd knew not to run in the middle of a road because there were few snipers on the hill. It's a smart system that makes the game enjoyable.

The spotting system in BC2 was one of the things that I was really looking forward to and did in the end really enjoy. I'm a bit of a crap sniper, but my favourite way to play BC2 is to sit somewhere spotting dudes and seeing them die because a team member becomes aware instantly and is able to respond because I seen that he was being flanked. Stuff like that make for an enjoyable experience which doesn't involve friends or ventrilo. Though with those two things, it's a delight. "Hey uh dude, yeah you see that mountain up there to your ri- *bam your dead*".. there's none of that you can spot him, get back into cover and your friend will know exactly where you mean. I agree with some of it's complaints. It needs to be tweaked, I'm not sure how.

@Ahmad_Metallic said:

@Rolyatkcinmai: Ok, i'll take your advice: Tell me how having a marker on your screen telling you that if you shoot under it, you get a kill, is not a synonym to using an aimbot? If you're inside a house, and the enemy is outside the house and they get spotted, you see their cone moving outside the wall. You know their exact movement through a wall. how is that not a synonym to wallhacking ?

The spotting system just briefly shows where enemies are. I can't imagine how anyone could compare that to using an aimbot, which does all the aiming for you.

@Ahmad_Metallic said:

@emergency said:

Yes, you need to actually get in there and play the game before you can make real judgement calls on whether it's balanced or not. You can't just take someone elses opinion. Cause that's all it is. An opinion.

Seeing 80% of the kills in the game (in video footage) happen after way too few bullets are shot, is an opinion? I'd love an explanation

• its your opinion that it is too few?
• alpha testing?
• its a video.. there is no way of really judging if there were headshots involved, if the other guy had low health, the power of the weapon, the luck that so many bullets actually hit, the quantity of bullets that hit against those that missed. SO MANY VARIABLES THAT YOU HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT.
• it's a gun with bullets, that kills people. (as good an explanation as you get).

Surprised about these comparisons. I played neither BC2 or BF2, so I might hold off BF3 for a while.

1.This is not CoD, and from what I've seen, it's pretty similar to BC2. It takes longer to take people down than in CoD, for that AND dedicated serves, it's not gonna be "Because I saw you first you die" 
 
2. I can see why they're implanting that system. It's annoying to be at low health, and have that 'can't see shit' bloody view, running around looking for a medic. Be honest here, how many times did you want to pull your hair out/suicide in game just to get rid of the annoying blood effects?  
This was especially infuriating with bad snipers. Shooting you in the feet and leaving you in that near to death situations where you can't do shit. 
Plus, this appeals to the mass market. 

3. It's still Alpha, they will balance it, tweak it, change it.  
 
4. The spotting system is probably my favorite new system in BF series. in BC1, many times I'd see a sniper, but have no way of killing him or telling others to kill him, because my gun didn't have the range. In BC2, I could see a sniper, 'spot' him, and have our sniper take care of him. It's teamwork(Back to your original point about "Where is the teamwork") Or I'd knew not to run in the middle of a road because there were few snipers on the hill. It's a smart system that makes the game enjoyable. 
 
5.There is no "assistance" in aiming. You still have to goddamn aim, and better be good as hell if they're running. It's called knowing your surroundings, not here let me show you who to shoot. 
 

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@iAmJohn said:

@Ahmad_Metallic said:

If you think this is a typical "Bf3 is Bc3 !!" thread, give me a counter argument.

Okay.

What were you really expecting? As much as I love Battlefield 2, that game was janky and fucked up as shit and many elements of it never really worked right, not to mention that it's a seven-year-old game at this point so of course they're going to base things off of Bad Company 2, especially the good elements (like spotting, which is a great feature, albeit one that could maybe use a more stringent distance cap). This is like complaining that Halo Reach feels like a game that came after Halo 3 rather than the first game. Not to mention that many of your complaints have almost nothing to do with Battlefield 3 as a game itself and come across as crybaby "they changed it, now it sucks" whining. Oh no, now there's autoheal if you can hold on. Not only is 15 seconds a pretty long window to be at low health, but, call me crazy, I played a ton of medic in BC2 and never felt like I was useless unless reviving. I'll give you that some of it sounds like some missteps (calling out squad leaders with spotting is fine by me; not giving them any extra command powers, however, is dumb), but could this blog be any more hang-wringing and whiny? I think not.

I kinda have to agree with everything your posted John. I have to add one thing. Getting a kill with padels is the best.

Well said you both.

Evolution(since when is this a bad thing?) ... Bad Company was a good next step for the Battlefield series I don't really understand this weird Ahmad's flip flop with BF3.

I don't like to evaluate "bullet points", "box features" or previews.. at the end I'm having more fun with BC2 than I did with BF2, The same "analysis" should go for BF3, let's play it first and then judge: If fun I'm sold.

@Agent47 said:

Now I understand how it bothers people when things are changed but for fuck's sake calm down they are the reason developers *cough*Activision*cough* never try anything new.Because people then bitch and oh keep making the same shit never inovate just keep making the same thing with a fresh coat of paint. Sorry for the rant but I see your points but if that stuff gone means we get all those things we've seen from BF3 then I'm all for it.

It's a very good point over the innovation. Ever since cod4, their has been very little innovation. Yes, the jump to the modern era for CoD was a great idea and it worked like a charm. After that it's been all the same stuff because that's what keeps the fanboys happy. I for one am glad BF3 is going to have a lot of cool new stuff, some of which was in BC2.

• Destructible environments
• Spotting system
• Smart movement system (leaping etc.)

These are the kinds of things I want in a game. So long as they are implemented well and balanced and I have no real reason to suspect they won't be.

You raise some good points. You've done a great job of explaining what you feel is wrong with the game. The problem is that you haven't mentioned anything about how they could rectify it and make the game better. If they just pulled out all of the features you're complaining about, you would just have a glorified BF2 remake, and you've said yourself that you don't want that. Everything apart from the graphics would still be incredibly dated and everyone but the hardcore BF2 fans would hate it.

They pretty much had three options with BF3. Firstly, they could have made BF2 with better graphics, which was never going to happen and would have alienated at least 95% of the potential userbase. They could have streamlined and modernized it with elements they have developed in other games (e.g. BC2), and this seems to be the route they have taken. Or they could have completely reinvented the wheel and modernized it with completely new things that stayed away from the BC2 stuff. Reinventing the wheel is hard, and it's not something anyone should expect or demand from a game. When it happens, it's awesome, but it's very rare for a game to do that.

@The_Nubster said:

1) Not having a tool to communicate with: It's called a headset. There's voice chat. Welcome to the future 
2) Dropping dead after 3 taps? Of what? Of an assault rifle? Yeah, getting shot kind of hurts. Besides, have you played the game? And it doesn't matter if 'someone who did' told you that, you haven't experienced it. 
3) Oh, you mean the marker? A tool that communicates the location of an enemy? 
4) Again, have you spent an hour capturing flags/reviving teammates and not having your name appear anywhere on the end-of-round scoreboard? 

1- The game is not exclusive for you and your buddies. millions of people around the world are gonna be playing it ten times than you are, and many of them either don't have mics, don't have loud or clear voices, aren't comfortable with talking to strangers, or don't speak english well.  
What about them? 
 Also, i used voice chat with my BF2 clan back in the day, and though we were all familiar with each other and had great conversations, commo rose was used more than voice chat while in game, because its quicker, louder and more efficient.  
2- Watching 26 gameplay videos where 80% of the kills happened after 1 third of the clip was emptied, to you, is not equal to "health drains quickly" ? Why would i continue discussing this with you at this point? are you trolling ? 
3- a tool to communicate the location of the enemy? nice try. It doesn't communicate their location, it shows you exactly where they are and almost always guarantees you to kill them only by shooting under the marker. It also shows them to you through walls. ever heard of wallhacking ? 
4- I've seen someone spend over 11 minutes going after mcoms and mcoms only, i didnt see his work for objectives being credited anywhere when the match ended. do i have to try that first hand too ?  

It's a feature that has been in two Battlefield games and has become a large part of teamwork. Someone spots someone they can't hit, their teammates clean it up. People love that feature and miss it when they go back to CoD. It's a lot easier than saying "there's a guy over there!" because in a video game you do not have fingers to point.

Do you not see everyone disagreeing with you and trying to get you to chill? Do you really think your opinion is the only one that is fact?

I'm glad you're getting 50+ people piling on now. When I had to defend myself against you alone in another topic on this matter it became arduous.

@Ahmad_Metallic said:

@Rolyatkcinmai: Ok, i'll take your advice: Tell me how having a marker on your screen telling you that if you shoot under it, you get a kill, is not a synonym to using an aimbot? If you're inside a house, and the enemy is outside the house and they get spotted, you see their cone moving outside the wall. You know their exact movement through a wall. how is that not a synonym to wallhacking ?

The spotting system just briefly shows where enemies are. I can't imagine how anyone could compare that to using an aimbot, which does all the aiming for you.

They should just put the spotting on the mini-map, not in the world. 

@MattyFTM said:

You raise some good points. You've done a great job of explaining what is wrong with the game. The problem is that you haven't mentioned anything about how they could rectify it and make the game better. If they just pulled out all of the features you're complaining about, you would just have a glorified BF2 remake, and you've said yourself that you don't want that. Everything apart from the graphics would still be incredibly dated and everyone but the hardcore BF2 fans would hate it.

They pretty much had three options with BF3. Firstly, they could have made BF2 with better graphics, which was never going to happen and would have alienated at least 95% of the potential userbase. They could have streamlined and modernized it with elements they have developed in other games (e.g. BC2), and this seems to be the route they have taken. Or they could have completely reinvented the wheel and modernized it with completely new things that stayed away from the BC2 stuff. Reinventing the wheel is hard, and it's not something anyone should expect or demand from a game. When it happens, it's awesome, but it's very rare for a game to do that.

Especially considering they are using an successor to the frostbite engine that was used for BC2. The FB engine is relatively new, I feel it would be another few years if they had 'reinvented the wheel' and created a different engine. It also explains why a lot of things that where in BC2 and in BF3. It's EASY for them to put in spotting etc.

Also as a sidenote I'd like to point out that the points system will cover stuff like helping teammates, capturing points etc.

@Ahmad_Metallic said:

@natetodamax said:

@Ahmad_Metallic said:

@Rolyatkcinmai: Ok, i'll take your advice: Tell me how having a marker on your screen telling you that if you shoot under it, you get a kill, is not a synonym to using an aimbot? If you're inside a house, and the enemy is outside the house and they get spotted, you see their cone moving outside the wall. You know their exact movement through a wall. how is that not a synonym to wallhacking ?

The spotting system just briefly shows where enemies are. I can't imagine how anyone could compare that to using an aimbot, which does all the aiming for you.

Thank you for proving what I just said, I guess.

 Posting this again since it seems it didn't give you mail alerting you.
 

Regenerating tanks? Fuck that.

• As much as I loved BF2, there are things that I like better about BC2 that are going to be in this game and I'm glad.
  
• The squad-leader does serve a purpose.  I'm almost positive that I read he is the only person you can spawn on (like in BF2) so you need to keep him alive.
• Health regeneration is a good thing if it's like BC2 in my opinion.  It's not almost-instant like Call of Duty and it's still VERY helpful to have a medic in your squad to keep everyone topped off so you can keep pushing forward.   It wasn't very fun to not have a medic in your squad in BF2 and just be doomed to die in the next infantry fight you come to because you're stuck at 3% health unless you get across the map to the couple medics on your team.
• I'm glad they're focusing more on the guns, BF2 guns were not nearly as fun to use as BC2 guns in my opinion.  
• Damage models look fine to me from the footage out there.
• Honestly, people usually never payed attention to my commo-rose commands.  For example, the all too familiar "Hey, I NEED A RIDE!!!!!!" spam for the guy to just speed on without you.
• I do agree that the BC2 knife wasn't good.  However, to use it in this game it seems you need to be behind them after equipping your knife (so if you're ten feet out and they turn around you don't have your gun equipped to save yourself) and if I remember correctly if you get stabbed with the equip-knife from the front you have a chance to hit a button to counter it.  There is a quick knife, but it takes two slashes and doesn't seem to be auto-aimed.
• Team-works stats not being on the score-board is a bad thing, but can easily be fixed if there is enough complaining (or maybe they'll add it in from tester feed-back).
• The 3D spotting thing is a bit ridiculous at times, but someone up there said that it is a temporary thing, though I don't know how true that is.
• The conquest maps being choke-point based, are, like you said, speculations.
• In my opinion, this is looking to be a sequel to BF2 with the improvements BC2 brought to the franchise.

It's awesome to play with a friend and be able to spot an enemy for him and get points when he shots him instead of having to scream in the headset "there's a guy standing next to thing that...too late".

@xobballox said:

Posting this again since it seems it didn't give you mail alerting you.

Regenerating tanks? Fuck that.

They don't regenerate fully, I believe I read somewhere that they slowly regenerate like 5% or some other low number like that, though I'm not sure on that.

@Ahmad_Metallic: As much as I loved BF2, there are things that I like better about BC2 that are going to be in this game and I'm glad. The squad-leader does serve a purpose. I'm almost positive that I read he is the only person you can spawn on (like in BF2) so you need to keep him alive. Health regeneration is a good thing if it's like BC2 in my opinion. It's not almost-instant like Call of Duty and it's still VERY helpful to have a medic in your squad to keep everyone topped off so you can keep pushing forward. It wasn't very fun to not have a medic in your squad in BF2 and just be doomed to die in the next infantry fight you come to because you're stuck at 3% health unless you get across the map to the couple medics on your team. I'm glad they're focusing more on the guns, BF2 guns were not nearly as fun to use as BC2 guns in my opinion. Damage models look fine to me from the footage out there. Honestly, people usually never payed attention to my commo-rose commands. For example, the all too familiar "Hey, I NEED A RIDE!!!!!!" spam for the guy to just speed on without you. I do agree that the BC2 knife wasn't good. However, to use it in this game it seems you need to be behind them after equipping your knife (so if you're ten feet out and they turn around you don't have your gun equipped to save yourself) and if I remember correctly if you get stabbed with the equip-knife from the front you have a chance to hit a button to counter it. There is a quick knife, but it takes two slashes and doesn't seem to be auto-aimed. Team-works stats not being on the score-board is a bad thing, but can easily be fixed if there is enough complaining (or maybe they'll add it in from tester feed-back). The 3D spotting thing is a bit ridiculous at times, but someone up there said that it is a temporary thing, though I don't know how true that is. The conquest maps being choke-point based, are, like you said, speculations. In my opinion, this is looking to be a sequel to BF2 with the improvements BC2 brought to the franchise.

I'm not trying to be a jackass but it would be much more readable if it was in a few well worked paragraphs or bullet points. With each sentence in a paragraph of it's own it's quite easy to just skip over your post. :P

You raise some good points. You've done a great job of explaining what is wrong with the game. The problem is that you haven't mentioned anything about how they could rectify it and make the game better. 

YReinventing the wheel is hard, and it's not something anyone should expect or demand from a game. 

I think you owe me an apology, Ahmad.

@xobballox said:

Posting this again since it seems it didn't give you mail alerting you.

Regenerating tanks? Fuck that.

They don't regenerate fully, I believe I read somewhere that they slowly regenerate like 5% or some other low number like that, though I'm not sure on that.

@Ahmad_Metallic: As much as I loved BF2, there are things that I like better about BC2 that are going to be in this game and I'm glad. The squad-leader does serve a purpose. I'm almost positive that I read he is the only person you can spawn on (like in BF2) so you need to keep him alive. Health regeneration is a good thing if it's like BC2 in my opinion. It's not almost-instant like Call of Duty and it's still VERY helpful to have a medic in your squad to keep everyone topped off so you can keep pushing forward. It wasn't very fun to not have a medic in your squad in BF2 and just be doomed to die in the next infantry fight you come to because you're stuck at 3% health unless you get across the map to the couple medics on your team. I'm glad they're focusing more on the guns, BF2 guns were not nearly as fun to use as BC2 guns in my opinion. Damage models look fine to me from the footage out there. Honestly, people usually never payed attention to my commo-rose commands. For example, the all too familiar "Hey, I NEED A RIDE!!!!!!" spam for the guy to just speed on without you. I do agree that the BC2 knife wasn't good. However, to use it in this game it seems you need to be behind them after equipping your knife (so if you're ten feet out and they turn around you don't have your gun equipped to save yourself) and if I remember correctly if you get stabbed with the equip-knife from the front you have a chance to hit a button to counter it. There is a quick knife, but it takes two slashes and doesn't seem to be auto-aimed. Team-works stats not being on the score-board is a bad thing, but can easily be fixed if there is enough complaining (or maybe they'll add it in from tester feed-back). The 3D spotting thing is a bit ridiculous at times, but someone up there said that it is a temporary thing, though I don't know how true that is. The conquest maps being choke-point based, are, like you said, speculations. In my opinion, this is looking to be a sequel to BF2 with the improvements BC2 brought to the franchise.

I'm not trying to be a jackass but it would be much more readable if it was in a few well worked paragraphs or bullet points. With each sentence in a paragraph of it's own it's quite easy to just skip over your post. :P

Ahmad, gotta respect your ultra-devotion to Battlefield man.

The world changes and keeps spinning though, the sun will rise, the birds will sing and it'll all be okay.

It may seem like the worst of all possible worlds right now, but life will get worse. So you've got that going for you, which is nice.

I really liked Battlefield 2 and I'm not particularly bothered by any of this, I think the game looks awesome and I don't expect them to totally ignore their post-Battlefield 2 successes to please some Battlefield 2 fans.

@Ahmad_Metallic said:

Yes i'll be buying the game, and yes i'm very excited for it, but the message i'm trying to convey here is that this game is not Battlefield 3.

Also, it is actually Battlefield 3, no matter how much you deny it ; )

Well to be fair, I sort of suspected for a while that this game would be more of a Bad Company 3, with the "Battlefield 3" name being a marketing gimmick. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, because Bad Company 2 is still a good game.

You're kidding me 3D spotting is one of the best features of BC2 and I'd be pissed if it DIDN'T make a comeback.

@Ahmad_Metallic: So if alpha is the second stage, what's the first?

What is the problem with 3D spotting? I love it, it's one of the most useful and wonderful additions that Bad Company made to BF to my mind. It promotes teamwork, and actually lets scouts be useful as scouts and not just some asshole sitting in a tree sniping.

Or perhaps you'd rather have people report in over voice chat, giving map coordinates to the enemy positions?

How about making the Spotting just be "last known position"? The triangle doesn't follow the target, but rather stays still over where the target was at the time of the spotting.

That makes it so you can point out where you saw an enemy, while still giving said enemy a chance to change position without everyone knowing.