Wow, way to dogpile. It's not even in the actual game. A developer used an off joke to convey something they were adding to the game. If the initial article wasn't even written in such a way to out the guy then no one would know the difference. Was it the most eloquent way for him to describe the skill tree? No. Does it matter and will anyone care when the mechromancer is playable around the holidays? No. At this point he should probably make an apology, but video game "news" is getting even more ridiculous if this is how we're acting. This shit might as well be on "E!".

I can see why people would be offended, but I can also see that they need to get the fuck over it.

Conclusion: Not a bad idea, terrible thing to call it. Assuming it was true. Couldn't have gone with "Casual Mode" or "light gamer mode" or something? really not that hard.

@MentalDisruption said:

Wow, way to dogpile. It's not even in the actual game. A developer used an off joke to convey something they were adding to the game. If the initial article wasn't even written in such a way to out the guy then no one would know the difference. Was it the most eloquent way for him to describe the skill tree? No. Does it matter and will anyone care when the mechromancer is playable around the holidays? No. At this point he should probably make an apology, but video game "news" is getting even more ridiculous if this is how we're acting. This shit might as well be on "E!".

Bullshit.

This isn't about what brand of shoes Randy Pitchford was most recently seen wearing, it's about how to market a game in a way that doesn't talk down to an entire audience.

people are stupid for going over stupid names like that. i don't care about a video game difficultly called girlfriend mode.

@RockyRaccoon37 said:

@MentalDisruption said:

Wow, way to dogpile. It's not even in the actual game. A developer used an off joke to convey something they were adding to the game. If the initial article wasn't even written in such a way to out the guy then no one would know the difference. Was it the most eloquent way for him to describe the skill tree? No. Does it matter and will anyone care when the mechromancer is playable around the holidays? No. At this point he should probably make an apology, but video game "news" is getting even more ridiculous if this is how we're acting. This shit might as well be on "E!".

Bullshit.

This isn't about what brand of shoes Randy Pitchford was most recently seen wearing, it's about how to market a game in a way that doesn't talk down to an entire audience.

Go take a large sample size of women and women gamers and see how much they care about it.

It's a stupid name that demeans girlfriends as it implies they need a special mode just for them, as they would otherwise be incapable of playing cooperatively with their significant other.

It isn't a defensible topic. It's just a bad name that shouldn't have ever been used to earnestly describe something. Just admit it, apologize, and move on.

What doesn't demean girls/women these days?

@RockyRaccoon37 said:

@Alkaiser said:

Well, I don't think it's as much a misogyny issue as much as an issue of sheer stupidity. A dude made an off the cuff comment and honestly its probably just some ignorant behind the times kind of "Well, I call it girlfriend mode because girls don't play video games because they're icky and stuff. They like... I don't know. Hula hoops? Are those still a thing? Do kids still like trains? I don't know, I fell out of a time portal from the 1840's. Do kids still love the sweet cool taste of Marlboro? Cure's what ails ya, I tell ya... oh shit, commies! Someone tell president Coolidge about this! Wait, we have a black president now? I tells ya, it's all the fault of that dang rocks and rolling records the kids listen to these days at the sock hops."

Well done.

I'm totally with you too! I think it's unfair and a leap to say that this guy is a misogynist, or there is a misogynist culture at Gearbox, but instead that this dude misspoke. He should have phrased his wording better and realized he was speaking to the press and not someone else at the office.

Although, that doesn't mean that a mode for people who are bad at games called "Girlfriend mode" is anything but sexist, outdated and exclusionary.

Because it is. And people arguing otherwise are flat out wrong.

The problem with that language at the office (outside of the 'surfacing in public and alienating some consumers' thing) is that is isn't helping us get the best talent into the office if only the males are comfortable with the terminology used internally. The gender split in dev offices is part of the reason how this happens, because it probably was talked about in those terms at the office of mainly male developers and so that just slipped out during the interview. Good things are being written in the dev facing press and it feels like the last few months have definitely seen gender issues coming to a head and people stopping for a second and asking why we haven't already moved forward on trying to fix this. It's a wider question, you'll find it in all the industries that feed from University courses where 80-90% of students are male and why we aren't attracting the talent we should (because there's no reason why male = coder / engineer, that doesn't make sense so we've got an issue of education and recruiting failing to get us the best of the best - and sometimes it's really easy to point at factors like which are not helping).

Agreed that this is a case of 'brain not engaged' but it is a symptom of something highly destructive to the industry (preventing us recruiting the best and brightest from wherever they come from and whoever they are) and I think a good press explosion over this isn't a terrible thing if it leads to discussions about what is and isn't good terminology to use when discussion mechanics. As we've seen before, isolated incident or not, we (developers, and even the dedicated games enthusiasts who chat all day about games on forums) need to do better.

Edit: clarification

@NMC2008 said:

What doesn't demean girls/women these days?

I'm going with Christmas Crunch and Batman the animated series.

It's not a new term, but it's a dated one. Although I don't remember people raising complaints when CliffyB used the term "girlfriend-friendly". I don't even remember anyone complaining when Brad used the term.

I think this is dumb. This could be considered a tad crass I guess. But breaking out the "sexism" pitchforks at the drop of a hat is getting old.

@Alkaiser said:

@NMC2008 said:

What doesn't demean girls/women these days?

I'm going with Christmas Crunch and Batman the animated series.

I am sure Batman demeans them somehow, Christmas Crunch demeans Jewish people, where is Hanukkah Crunch?

I just asked my girlfriend about this. She thought it was a great idea. I think her words were "I'd love a mode where I could play with you and not feel like I'm holding you back" okay the name is dumb, but I don't think anyone who is upset about it is the girlfriend of a gamer.

@NMC2008 said:

@Alkaiser said:

@NMC2008 said:

What doesn't demean girls/women these days?

I'm going with Christmas Crunch and Batman the animated series.

I am sure Batman demeans them somehow, Christmas Crunch demeans Jewish people, where is Hanukkah Crunch?

I don't know. I thought the cartoon was alright, don't really read much of batman in comic form so that could be a completely different beast. And you didn't say anything about antisemitism in cereal these days. That's an entirely different hotbed of discussion, or so my box of Adolf O's would suggest.

@Poppduder said:

I just asked my girlfriend about this. She thought it was a great idea. I think her words were "I'd love a mode where I could play with you and not feel like I'm holding you back" okay the name is dumb, but I don't think anyone who is upset about it is the girlfriend of a gamer.

no one's upset about the mode, just the name

@Animasta said:

@Poppduder said:

I just asked my girlfriend about this. She thought it was a great idea. I think her words were "I'd love a mode where I could play with you and not feel like I'm holding you back" okay the name is dumb, but I don't think anyone who is upset about it is the girlfriend of a gamer.

no one's upset about the mode, just the name

The Best Friends Forever tree? Can't see anything wrong with that name even if it is a bit long.

@Shivoa said:

@RockyRaccoon37 said:

@Alkaiser said:

Well, I don't think it's as much a misogyny issue as much as an issue of sheer stupidity. A dude made an off the cuff comment and honestly its probably just some ignorant behind the times kind of "Well, I call it girlfriend mode because girls don't play video games because they're icky and stuff. They like... I don't know. Hula hoops? Are those still a thing? Do kids still like trains? I don't know, I fell out of a time portal from the 1840's. Do kids still love the sweet cool taste of Marlboro? Cure's what ails ya, I tell ya... oh shit, commies! Someone tell president Coolidge about this! Wait, we have a black president now? I tells ya, it's all the fault of that dang rocks and rolling records the kids listen to these days at the sock hops."

Well done.

I'm totally with you too! I think it's unfair and a leap to say that this guy is a misogynist, or there is a misogynist culture at Gearbox, but instead that this dude misspoke. He should have phrased his wording better and realized he was speaking to the press and not someone else at the office.

Although, that doesn't mean that a mode for people who are bad at games called "Girlfriend mode" is anything but sexist, outdated and exclusionary.

Because it is. And people arguing otherwise are flat out wrong.

The problem with that language at the office (outside of the 'surfacing in public and alienating some consumers' thing) is that is isn't helping us get the best talent into the office if only the males are comfortable with the terminology used internally. The gender split in dev offices is part of the reason how this happens, because it probably was talked about in those terms at the office of mainly male developers and so that just slipped out during the interview. Good things are being written in the dev facing press and it feels like the last few months have definitely seen gender issues coming to a head and people stopping for a second and asking why we haven't already moved forward on trying to fix this. It's a wider question, you'll find it in all the industries that feed from University courses where 80-90% of students are male and why we aren't attracting the talent we should (because there's no reason why male = coder / engineer, that doesn't make sense so we've got an issue of education and recruiting failing to get us the best of the best - and sometimes it's really easy to point at factors like which are not helping).

Agreed that this is a case of 'brain not engaged' but it is a symptom of something highly destructive to the industry (preventing us recruiting the best and brightest from wherever they come from and whoever they are) and a think a good press explosion over this isn't a terrible thing if it leads to discussions about what is and isn't good terminology to use when discussion mechanics. As we've seen before, isolated incident or not, we need to do better.

All excellent points well taken-- the games industry still continues to be too much of a boys club and off-the-cuff remarks like this one do reinforce that point.

There's even more to be said of it being specifically for people who have excess time and money to invest in playing years worth of games in order to understand fundamental design philosophy, thereby limiting it to a middle and upper class.

It's a problematic and difficult issue to say the least.

@Toms115 said:

@AuthenticM said:

@OneKillWonder_ said:

Who gives a flying fuck? Seriously. Watching people get so uptight about such trivial shit is simultaneously funny and frustrating.

It's not trivial shit. This shit perpetuates the false notion that girls "don't understand" video games and are bad at them. It's ignorant, insulting and sexist. People like you putting their heads in the sand and pretending that nothing is wrong are part of the problem. Grow up.

yeah but not really. it's not called "STUPID CUNTS CAN'T PLAY GAMES mode", it's called girlfriend mode, i.e. your significant other, i.e. that person you live with that isn't very good at games. take your white knighting elsewhere.

"I'm not offended so why should anyone else be?" Why does that seem to be the prevailing notion from the defenders of this kind of behavior every time a story like this pops up? And of course anyone speaking out against the casual stupidity of Hemingway's comment is a "white knight." Is this some huge deal? No. But there are girl gamers out there who don't need their hands held in an FPS, just like there are guy gamers who have shit aim and will use the skill tree. The industry as well as its consumers need to smarten up.

@MentalDisruption said:

@RockyRaccoon37 said:

@MentalDisruption said:

Wow, way to dogpile. It's not even in the actual game. A developer used an off joke to convey something they were adding to the game. If the initial article wasn't even written in such a way to out the guy then no one would know the difference. Was it the most eloquent way for him to describe the skill tree? No. Does it matter and will anyone care when the mechromancer is playable around the holidays? No. At this point he should probably make an apology, but video game "news" is getting even more ridiculous if this is how we're acting. This shit might as well be on "E!".

Bullshit.

This isn't about what brand of shoes Randy Pitchford was most recently seen wearing, it's about how to market a game in a way that doesn't talk down to an entire audience.

Go take a large sample size of women and women gamers and see how much they care about it.

Will do.

@RockyRaccoon37 said:

@MentalDisruption said:

Wow, way to dogpile. It's not even in the actual game. A developer used an off joke to convey something they were adding to the game. If the initial article wasn't even written in such a way to out the guy then no one would know the difference. Was it the most eloquent way for him to describe the skill tree? No. Does it matter and will anyone care when the mechromancer is playable around the holidays? No. At this point he should probably make an apology, but video game "news" is getting even more ridiculous if this is how we're acting. This shit might as well be on "E!".

Bullshit.

This isn't about what brand of shoes Randy Pitchford was most recently seen wearing, it's about how to market a game in a way that doesn't talk down to an entire audience.

Go take a large sample size of women and women gamers and see how much they care about it.

@Alkaiser said:

@NMC2008 said:

@Alkaiser said:

@NMC2008 said:

What doesn't demean girls/women these days?

I'm going with Christmas Crunch and Batman the animated series.

I am sure Batman demeans them somehow, Christmas Crunch demeans Jewish people, where is Hanukkah Crunch?

I don't know. I thought the cartoon was alright, don't really read much of batman in comic form so that could be a completely different beast. And you didn't say anything about antisemitism in cereal these days. That's an entirely different hotbed of discussion, or so my box of Adolf O's would suggest.

Maybe, but I am sure someone will pull a Ned Flanders and find something with Batman TAS just because of this very exchange, and I heard Count Chocula kills Christians and Captain Crunch fully backs the Tea Party while staying crunchy in milk.

There's no mode tho. It's a skill tree, and it's called "BFFs", not Girlfriend skill tree.

Just a case of the developer slipping who hi's BBF is. "For lack of a better term" be mentioned beforehand. I'm pretty sure the term "girlfriend mode" was inserted in the story and did not appear in the actual dialog of the interview.

I don't see why a girlfriend mode is a bad thing.

Why do people give a fuck, Jesus Christ.

@ck1nd said:

This is just some new viral story some hipster jackass decided to broaden his audience with. "Girlfriend Mode" is not a sexist term in the least, unless you cater to the jackasses who see the imaginary meaning. My wife, who would benefit from something called "Girlfriend Mode" thought it was funny - and also true. She's not a self-entitled diva who takes offence at petty pickings, but instead picks her battles.

Again, it's just the crusaders of equality that are too bored sitting around doing nothing in hopes that a trivial discussion like this arises.

Well at least you gave all those hipsters/jackasses/self-entitled divas/crusaders the chance to make their case rather than just dismissing any ideas that ran contrary to your own as "imaginary."

Oh...

Didn't Mario Galaxy 2 have "girlfriend mode?" The first time I actually heard that term was from Abbie Heppie when she worked for G4 and she specifically called it that to describe the uselessness of that mode. I mean haven't we been literally using that term for the past 2 years. Patrick has used it on the Bombcast I think to.

@Toms115 said:

@AuthenticM said:

@OneKillWonder_ said:

Who gives a flying fuck? Seriously. Watching people get so uptight about such trivial shit is simultaneously funny and frustrating.

It's not trivial shit. This shit perpetuates the false notion that girls "don't understand" video games and are bad at them. It's ignorant, insulting and sexist. People like you putting their heads in the sand and pretending that nothing is wrong are part of the problem. Grow up.

yeah but not really. it's not called "STUPID CUNTS CAN'T PLAY GAMES mode", it's called girlfriend mode, i.e. your significant other, i.e. that person you live with that isn't very good at games. take your white knighting elsewhere.

That's right, because only the most EXTREME insults are the ones a person should take offense to. Stop all this caring about other people, BS!

@aurahack said:

Everyone who is currently involved in any part of videogames, industry or consumer, needs to back away from their computers for a second and try to see just exactly how retarded they are for a bit. Maybe then, all of this garbage will go away.

That's right folks. You are "retarded" if you are bothered by this.

An excellent retort if I've ever heard one.

@NMC2008 said:

@Alkaiser said:

@NMC2008 said:

What doesn't demean girls/women these days?

I'm going with Christmas Crunch and Batman the animated series.

I am sure Batman demeans them somehow, Christmas Crunch demeans Jewish people, where is Hanukkah Crunch?

There's that episode where The Joker slaps Harley I mean is not like that's a realistic situation of some couples or that it's part of Harley's character and story but I'm sure there's someone out there ready to be offended by it as soon as said person is bored and has nothing to do for the day ... sounds familiar.

"Girlfriend Mode" is not a sexist term in the least...

holy political correctness, jesus christ

Oh I thought the game had a mode called "Girlfriend Mode" but it actually doesn't.

Perhaps the fact that this has caused any outrage at all is encouraging. It at least shows some people are tired of this condescending bullshit. Maybe the majority don't care, but I've been exposed to this kind of douchebaggery from video game companies since the 90's and it just never seems to go away. Perhaps now the audience has grown up a bit we can start shutting down this destructive pandering crap and developers can tell us about the games they're making without presuming we're all 14 year-old fuckwits.

Edit: I meant no offence to any fuckwitted 14 year-olds reading this.

@RockyRaccoon37 said:

@Alkaiser said:

Well, I don't think it's as much a misogyny issue as much as an issue of sheer stupidity. A dude made an off the cuff comment and honestly its probably just some ignorant behind the times kind of "Well, I call it girlfriend mode because girls don't play video games because they're icky and stuff. They like... I don't know. Hula hoops? Are those still a thing? Do kids still like trains? I don't know, I fell out of a time portal from the 1840's. Do kids still love the sweet cool taste of Marlboro? Cure's what ails ya, I tell ya... oh shit, commies! Someone tell president Coolidge about this! Wait, we have a black president now? I tells ya, it's all the fault of that dang rocks and rolling records the kids listen to these days at the sock hops."

Well done.

I'm totally with you too! I think it's unfair and a leap to say that this guy is a misogynist, or there is a misogynist culture at Gearbox, but instead that this dude misspoke. He should have phrased his wording better and realized he was speaking to the press and not someone else at the office.

Although, that doesn't mean that a mode for people who are bad at games called "Girlfriend mode" is anything but sexist, outdated and exclusionary.

Because it is. And people arguing otherwise are flat out wrong.

Very well articulated. I don't think anyone ought to be making any sort of serious personal attack against this guy for throwing out a relatively benign term that was a common, albeit dumb, parlance a few years back. He did however say something stupid. He shouldn't have said it because it's an outmoded term that was never a good way of describing something. I'm sure he's well aware of that now. Hopefully others are as well due to the controversy.

@AngelN7 said:

@NMC2008 said:

@Alkaiser said:

@NMC2008 said:

What doesn't demean girls/women these days?

I'm going with Christmas Crunch and Batman the animated series.

I am sure Batman demeans them somehow, Christmas Crunch demeans Jewish people, where is Hanukkah Crunch?

There's that episode where The Joker slaps Harley I mean is not like that's a realistic situation of some couples or that it's part of Harley's character and story but I'm sure there's someone out there ready to be offended by it as soon as said person is bored and has nothing to do for the day ... sounds familiar.

I guess, but it makes sense considering that the Joker is a crazy murderer who would probably kill his henchman at the drop of a hat. No one tries to paint him in a positive light. Also I'm pretty sure they probably do some kind of abusive relationship angle in the comics and how its a bad thing, but who knows. All I know is that King Vitamin is a pedophile. Can you look at that face and tell me he isn't?

@OneKillWonder_ said:

Who gives a flying fuck? Seriously. Watching people get so uptight about such trivial shit is simultaneously funny and frustrating.

It's not trivial shit. This shit perpetuates the false notion that girls "don't understand" video games and are bad at them. It's ignorant, insulting and sexist. People like you putting their heads in the sand and pretending that nothing is wrong are part of the problem. Grow up.

@BrockNRolla said:

It's a stupid name that demeans girlfriends as it implies they need a special mode just for them, as they would otherwise be incapable of playing cooperatively with their significant other.

It isn't a defensible topic. It's just a bad name that shouldn't have ever been used to earnestly describe something. Just admit it, apologize, and move on.

Where were you two years ago when the games press used this exact term to describe that 2nd player option in Galaxy 2?

They should have called it "The girl who may or may not be a friend but sucks at games but not because she is a girl" talent tree.

@BrockNRolla said:

@aurahack said:

Everyone who is currently involved in any part of videogames, industry or consumer, needs to back away from their computers for a second and try to see just exactly how retarded they are for a bit. Maybe then, all of this garbage will go away.

That's right folks. You are "retarded" if you are bothered by this.

An excellent retort if I've ever heard one.

Pretty much. There is no "Girlfriend Mode" in BL2, and the skill tree itself is not labeled as that either. The designer just referred to it under that name because it's something we immediately understand and makes his job a whole lot simpler. I can't see those being upset by this as anything other than people just looking for something to be angry because it's been a few weeks without some kind of news to be an ass about.

@RedRavN said:

They should have called it "The girl who may or may not be a friend but sucks at games but not because she is a girl" talent tree.

I'm all for it. We can also have the Asian difficulty for racing games where your car handles more poorly and whenever a high jump code is in a video game we can call it Black people mode. I also want a Peruvian mode where you have heat vision and get bonuses for saving people in the nick of time.

WHARGLEBARGLE! Girlfriend mode! It is demeaning to women! Now I'm going to go watch some porn.

So why are people mad at this now I feel like the term girlfriend mode has been used for a whole now even on this site. Maybe a poor choice of words but a phrase that has become common place already.

Deathsoank devs even coined the term first I believe

Remember when people went crazy when the developers of DeathSpank used this exact term? No? Oh yeah, because the gaming press didn't realize it could use accusations of sexism to up page views.

@SlightConfuse said:

So why are people mad at this now I feel like the term girlfriend mode has been used for a whole now even on this site. Maybe a poor choice of words but a phrase that has become common place already. Deathsoank devs even coined the term first I believe

I think after the array of hateful, misogynist responses to Anita Sarkeesian Women in Video Games Kickstarter people have rightly become more sensitive to these kinds of issues.

@Brodehouse said:

Remember when people went crazy when the developers of DeathSpank used this exact term? No? Oh yeah, because the gaming press didn't realize it could use accusations of sexism to up page views.

IT WAS FINE THEN SO ITS FINE NOW MAY THINGS FOREVER REMAIN CONSTANT.

@mikey87144 said:

@BrockNRolla said:

It's a stupid name that demeans girlfriends as it implies they need a special mode just for them, as they would otherwise be incapable of playing cooperatively with their significant other.

It isn't a defensible topic. It's just a bad name that shouldn't have ever been used to earnestly describe something. Just admit it, apologize, and move on.

Where were you two years ago when the games press used this exact term to describe that 2nd player option in Galaxy 2?

Are you implying that I was "pro" calling this "girlfriend mode" back then? Or at least that I didn't think it was an issue? Have you been following my movements for the past 2 years? That's creepy.

I suppose 2 years ago I was watching my girlfriend play through Super Mario Galaxy on her own. I also watched my friend Adam attempt to introduce Super Mario Galaxy's "girlfriend mode" to his girlfriend who, after playing replied, "This is boring. I feel like I'm not even playing." I guess my own experiences, even then, made me think it was a bad name for a co-op mode, as in practice it seemed to describe nothing accurate about the mode.

@BrockNRolla said:

It's a stupid name that demeans girlfriends as it implies they need a special mode just for them, as they would otherwise be incapable of playing cooperatively with their significant other.

It isn't a defensible topic. It's just a bad name that shouldn't have ever been used to earnestly describe something. Just admit it, apologize, and move on.

Patrick, Brad, Ryan, all of them have specifically talked about games that they wouldn't expect their non-game-playing significant other to be able to handle, and others that 'they can have fun' in. Remember when that one fan sent in an e-mail about his girlfriend starting to show an interest in games and how he should ease her into it? Vinny suggested Assassin's Creed and Brad specifically said that it had too many buttons and the controls were too complicated for someone not fully comfortable with video games. Should we go back and be morally outraged by that?

Maybe you have a girlfriend who has no interest in games. Maybe you have one who is already perfectly comfortable with them. But maybe you have one who isn't comfortable but is showing an interest. This mode is (allegedly) for them.

@RockyRaccoon37 said:

@Brodehouse said:

Remember when people went crazy when the developers of DeathSpank used this exact term? No? Oh yeah, because the gaming press didn't realize it could use accusations of sexism to up page views.

IT WAS FINE THEN SO ITS FINE NOW MAY THINGS FOREVER REMAIN CONSTANT.

It was two years ago. Has the world really changed so much, or has the gaming media discovered something they can use. If it's so horrendously sexist now, it was sexist then. What's changed?

@aurahack said:

@BrockNRolla said:

@aurahack said:

Everyone who is currently involved in any part of videogames, industry or consumer, needs to back away from their computers for a second and try to see just exactly how retarded they are for a bit. Maybe then, all of this garbage will go away.

That's right folks. You are "retarded" if you are bothered by this.

An excellent retort if I've ever heard one.

Pretty much. There is no "Girlfriend Mode" in BL2, and the skill tree itself is not labeled as that either. The designer just referred to it under that name because it's something we immediately understand and makes his job a whole lot simpler. I can't see those being upset by this as anything other than people just looking for something to be angry because it's been a few weeks without some kind of news to be an ass about.

No, see, I was making fun of your use of an offensive term to describe how people shouldn't be upset about another offensive term. Just wanted to make that clear; I'd hate to be lumped in with you.