So I've played about 20 hours, and I've reached a strange state of mind where I actively despise the game. Like I really, really hate the fuckin thing. I think the hitboxes are broken, and the way the game is put together - enemies have near-infinite stamina, one hit kills, awful things like the stagger - have all combined to make me really hate this thing.

But I can't give up. Otherwise they win right? I mean it's so wrong, because I don't think DS2 is WORTH playing, I'm just doing it because I loved DS so much, and I don't want a game to 'defeat' me.

But man it's a slog. I've read so much around the web about how DS2 tinkers with the formula too much and some people even after finishing on 80 hours say they just played through for the sake of completion.

So, are you having fun? Really? Because I am most definitely not.

I am. I love the hell out of it.

This.

Hard to see a scenario where this isn't in my top 5 games of all time, even if I can only play online once a month or something.

Haha thank christ someone is, I think I might wait for some other people to clock it and make a few wikis. I'm all for application of ability and actually tackling the game on a mechanical level, like I'll put the time in, but at the minute it's just death after death after death.

Really unfortunate to hear you're not enjoying the game, but I myself am loving it. There have been certain bosses that have left me with the motivation of strangling my cat (Lost Sinner especially), but by and large I've enjoyed my time with it immensely. It captures the same dreary, oppressive atmosphere that I love about the games, and think the combat is (for the most part) on point and is perhaps even better. I especially like how I no longer need to constantly have a havel's ring equivalent equipped anymore to have a fast roll now, too. Seemed like unless you were actually naked, you'd always be stuck with a medium roll for the longest time in Dark Souls.

I sure am. I'm really loving Dark Souls 2 but I am having a less fun right now because I'm fighting the most annoying spider boss ever.

I'm having a blast.

Absolutely. Even when I'm yelling and cursing at the screen I keep coming back for more, because it's fun.

I still have a bit to go before I'm done, but I'm already pretty confident saying this is the best game From has ever made. The vast majority of the changes they have made are for the better, and the handful that I might say otherwise don't outweigh those.

There hasn't been one part where I've said, "I wish they did it like Dark Souls 1." At least not so far. most of my complaints are from a technical aspect, lag during from invaders and from being summoned and unresponsive character creator. But going through the game itself, I've felt like I've made good progress during each play session. As far as level design goes, I haven't ever had to make the Dark Souls 2 equivalent of the Anor Londo dragon archer run, which is a huge plus. I haven't had that feeling of utter futility like during my first time through Tomb of Giants, Lost Izalith, or that Anor Londo archer run.

So far, I'd even say I enjoy it more than Dark Souls 1. Being able to experiment with stat allocation knowing that I have 2 respect items makes the game waaaay less stressful. I know I made a thread on GB here when Dark Souls 1 came out bemoaning the fact that I put a lot of points into DEX and feeling like I've completely fucked up and wasted my souls.

At first I was sort of really struggling where I felt as if every area I've visited was too tough for me. I finally got some better weapons, put some points down and I finally feel like I'm starting to be in control, not getting staggered constantly and doing decent damage. This has made it a lot more fun although I feel like the new healing is sort of awful.

I think it holds up well compared to the previous games. That said, I'm having some technical difficulties with the game. The frame rate is really bad for most of the time. The previous games weren't exactly pillars of excellence in this aspect, but this is almost unplayable at times. On top of that, the game is lagging sometimes in PvE, which seems ridiculous. It can take up to half a second before hits register and the audio lags behind as well. But I'll keep playing.

Not half as much as Dark Souls. I don't think it's poorly made, I just think Dark Souls was better. I don't like the amount of bonfires and the constant warping at all. The game was built around that system and it shows. I feel like it just lacks coherence as a world because they made it so big and varied. That would usually be a good thing in a game, though I honestly preferred Dark Souls for its smaller and more consistent world. Maybe I've gotten too accustomed to PC/new consoles, but it also looks bad and runs terribly on PS3. There's nothing frustrating about it and I'm pretty much just running through everything without trouble, but I never feel like I'm on the critical path. Everything feels like filler or something, hard to describe. Like I said, it lacks focus and is too big for my liking.

I've barely slept since I got it. Like yesterday, I wanted to quit at a reasonable 2 AM. Next 4 AM. Finally 8 AM, I managed to finally unglue my face from the screen. As for fun? Is being intoxicated fun? Is being on the edge of the seat fun? Is living in the Danger Zone fun? Fun as a word lacks any definition.

Since I enjoy all those things I mentioned, and much more of what's on offer, by my definition, I'm having so much fun, it's downright dangerous.

I don't like how fast your weapon degrades, but other than that I'm having a blast.

Best time I've had with a game since DS 1

A) The hit boxes are not broken get that into your skull!!!! You are still trying to play as if it was DS1 ... things changed and you should adapt if not well your loss , it is not the game´s fault. Jesus

B) The stagger , well dont hold your shield if you know you will run out of stamina ... is it that hard to get?

C) To the people complaining about the frame rates , either we are playing a different game or your systems are wrong because the frame rate has been ok and much better than it ever was in Dark Souls and Demon´s Souls. Or maybe Im inmune to such things.

D) And yep Im having a blast with the game and amazed on how big it is!!!! Im already at 40 hours and I still have 3 whole places to explore at least D:

Edit: it wasnt 80 hours... it was 40 but still :D

I rescind my earlier statement. I do wish Estus Flask healing was instant like in Dark Souls 1, considering how long it takes to drink the damn thing. I know they have to balance it for PVP and with the adaptability/agility stat, but they could at least make it heal faster so I don't get killed even after drinking it cause it didn't restore my HP fast enough.

It really sucks that the mechanical changes have put you off so much (and that clearly you're not alone), because I totally feel for how awful it is when something you like is changed enough that you lose your connection with it. On the other hand, it's kind of a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't scenario. If they hadn't tinkered enough with the formula, people who've spent innumerable hours with the game (myself included) would feel like the game lacked the sense of danger, exploration, and occasional helplessness that the prior games had. On the other hand, by changing things up to force people out of their comfort zones occasionally, they also run the risk of alienating those for whom it was the very specifics of DeS/DaS1 that made them fall in love.

Personally, the balance has worked out quite well for me (at least once I got halfway through the game where the difficulty starts to ramp up a bit), although personally I could have actually done with some MORE changes to things like specific weapon animations, because being able to pick up greatswords and IMMEDIATELY know how to use them effectively sort of sucked some of the tension out of the game and let me steamroll through early areas without fear of death (this was sort of the case with DeS --> DaS1, but I only played through DeS once before DaS came out, and I wasn't particularly proficient).

Basically, it sucks that you're not having fun, and I really do feel for you and all the people for whom the changes prove too much to leave the game enjoyable. On the other hand, one has to keep in mind that some degree of change is necessitated by the fact that so many people got SO deep into the prior games, especially when the games themselves are built in large part on exploration and experimentation. In the end, I think FROM did as good a job balancing those needs as I personally could have expected, and I'm having a fantastic time, but I also understand exactly where you're coming from, and it really is unfortunate.

All things considered I probably would agree that estus healing should be faster, since they're so limited and enemies are often way more aggressive, but I'm also kind of glad you can't just sit there and chug estus right through an attack anymore.

@shalashaskauk666: yup. The games fantastic. I've already bought it again on Steam so I can play it again without it looking like blurry, jaggy, 30 fps garbage.

Awesome game. I LOVE the Souls art direction. I keep playing it and feeling like.. man.. this is like a super bad ass adult versions of Fire Temple or Forest Temple etc from Zelda. Just looks fantastic. Lots of variety.

I love the freedom these games give you to move around to different areas. This one feels like its built more like Demon's Souls where there is a hub area and then some areas directly accessible from there and each section (like a tree limb) has multiple sections (this also reminds me of Zelda). It isn't as intertwined as DkS 1 but it's been fine for me. I'm not finding it any better or worse.

I love a bunch of the new armor designs and some have a cape. Looks all tattered and dirty like its been dragged on the floor constantly.

I feel that the ability to chug through massive hits was the balance necessary to keep a level playing field. I'm fairly early on in the game, and the Dragonrider(?) mini boss in that small circular room was a real pain in terms of healing from the estus. His sweeping attacks had a very large radius and since I don't have many points in that mobility stats the animation for drinking is painfully slow - it also ends in a split second of simply not being able to move. I'm not even quite sure how you are supposed to fight that guy. The room is quite small and if you try to roll sideways through his circular swings you get hit (I have pulled the lever and extended the radius of the platform FYI). When I tried to methodically block all his attacks my shield's durability would get completely depleted halfway through his lifebar. I eventually summoned a person and I'm glad for it - I never summoned people in the past two games because of this strange online stigma that only wussies need help and true dark soulsians get through get game on their own. But that just meant I've missed out on a large part of the last two entries in order to be an internet tough dood.

On a whole it feels like the movement in the second game is a lot more sluggish. I don't mean moving your stick left and seeing the character move left, but rather the speed with which everything happens. There seems to be some sort of pause after every attack that leaves you wide open for attack. When fighting the white knight in the forest of giants I would quite literally be unable to hit him and bring my shield up fast enough to block his attack. There is the aforementioned pause after drinking where I also can't move, raise my shield or roll.

Maybe this is all done so that you dump points into that mobility stat in order to do anything with some degree of finesse, but it makes the game somewhat.. I don't know, unfairly unforgiving, cheap maybe? I hesitate to use the word "cheap" as the hardcore Dark Souls fans are quick to jump down your throat about the marvel of equality and true player skill that these games represent - but there are honestly situations where I feel like my character was simply not responsive enough in relation to my enemies.

Yup

I'll note that I have 7 Estus Flasks so far and that seems more than enough. Even 5 was probably more than enough for me. Having access to life gems, the ring of restoration, or healing miracles helps.

I guess I find if I'm put into a nasty situation then I'll probably be dying anyway. But also the runs from bonfire to boss are often not that long. But I have had a few sections that I've been stuck on for hours and hours.

I think the flask balancing was a good thing. I am still able to heal during some bosses if I find the right opening. And if the flask is too slow than I squeeze in a life gem. But you can't just easily stand around chugging flasks.

I'm liking it a lot, but the last 2 or so areas I've been in have been the opposite of fun.

That spider cave place, and the Gutter

Please, From Software, if there is ever a 4th Souls games, pleeeeeease do not make another wooden maze type area. Please. They are not fun nor are they pleasant to look at.

I think its better than the original that is for sure. It has way more influence this time around from Demon's Souls which it think is a good thing. If anything I thought the original Dark Souls is probably the easiest of the souls games. This game steps it up and the more I play the more I see how all the checks and balances work.

I think its less of it being badly designed and more that Dark Souls vets are having a hard time wrapping their minds around all the numerous changes. I for one like all the changes.

@humanity: I don't think it WAS balanced in DkS1. The whole idea behind the animation priority is that you have to look for safe openings to heal. If you reach the point where you can just stand there and chug an estus flask without worrying about that anymore then I consider that a flaw in the mechanics. However, you could argue that DkS2 has taken it a bit too far with a combination of various mechanics that makes it very hard to find a safe moment to use them, but perhaps that's because there are other healing items and you're not supposed to rely completely on estus. Lifegems are generally much safer to pop.

I don't think the new healing mechanics are quite unfair to the player, but they are the least forgiving of any of the games so far, and definitely requires veteran players to rethink their approach.

I love this game. I think it's immensely fun. I'm not getting the framerate problems some people complain about, but there are some technically wonky things. I'm only 12 or so hours in, at the Ruin Sentinels. And they are kicking my ass, yet I just love it!

Been playing it non-stop for 2 days now (since EU release) and I just reached a point where things started to get to me. I might just be burnt out for the day, but things like how they've fully embraced the "runback" concept (eventhough I seem to remember they talked about having bonfires closer to boss doors), how the game is more focused around multi-mob combat (which has always sucked in these games) and how they have a good amount of essential interactables that are very easy to miss.

While it's sorta contradictory with what I already said I am also having somewhat of a "been there, done that" feeling. I've killed most of the bosses in 3 or less tries because I already know exactly how to play these games. That's not to say I haven't enjoyed a lot of it though, it just feels like I've reached a point in the game where they've run out of tricks to pull out of the bag. Although, it's not like the end of Dark Souls was perfect either. Also, is it just me or has gear progression been really diminished ?

The real dark souls starts here

This is my first "Souls" game and I'm enjoying it so far. Only a few hours in though.

My transition from Demon's Souls to Dark Souls was similar, and no I never liked Dark Souls even close to as much as I did Demon's Souls.

So far I'm enjoying Dark Souls 2, I'm kinda surprised how good it looks, though maybe I heard too much negativity about the graphics so I went in with lowered expectations. Also knowing how annoyed I got with Dark Souls 1, I went full on magic this time, which means I'm avoiding most of the frustration with this game. Healing myself being about the only thing that has made this difficult, but I'm also just new. I really really like though how much they encourage co-op in Dark Souls 2. I think that's why I hated Dark Souls 1, they made it easy for people to hide in fear in non-human mode.

I like it. Haven't played it enough though to know what I'll ultimately think of this game.

The stagger is a bitch, I'm having trouble adjusting to the way using your shield works, and the game can get pretty framey. That said I'm having a hell of a time with it.

Crummy frame rate at best on PS3 ( April 25th can't come soon enough) but I am really enjoying it so far.

Not in the least. I think overall it's kinda bad, and definitely worse than Dark Souls. I have absolutely no desire to play any more of it. I'd rather make a new character on Dark Souls 1 and try to finish that one again than play any more of part 2.

Maybe I'm just tired of the whole "die and run the same spots over and over" thing, or maybe I'm just not in the mood for this type of game right now. Whatever the case is, I have doubts about whether I will play any more or just send it back to Gamefly.

Edit: Feel like I should add that I have managed to get a better weapon and make some progress(I beat a boss). I still wouldn't exactly say that I am having "fun," but getting that weapon and beating the boss was kinda satisfying. So, I'm gonna try playing it a bit more, and when I begin to get frustrated I'll take a break and play some of the new Atelier game that showed up today.

Eh, it's alright I guess. Haven't played too much yet, not really a fan of Dark Souls, feeling better about 2 though. Dual-wielding is pretty awesome so far, though the lack of a defense could become a bitch later on I suspect. We'll see.

Not really, I mean I am enjoying the game, but I get really nervous playing it, and so progress real slowly. I can't play for long stretches either. Immediately started grinding to calm myself and have pretty much only done that.

Agreed. A lot of people need to learn that you don't want to heal after getting hit. First priority is getting your defenses back in order then as you said baiting an attack or waiting for one and using the recovery time off the enemies attack to heal instead of attack.

I'm loving the changes they've made. Heal delay, stagger changes, the new adaptability stat and splitting other effects among stats, all awesome changes. It really is a much better game from a purely game mechanics perspective.

Frame rates are bad. Also some bad hitches at predictable spots - I think it's bluray access issue. Dynamic lighting is garbage. low-res textures are painful. Dynamic shadowmaps are rendered at about 200x150 res. But it's a PS3 so hey, I can forgive all of this.

So far the world design has been pretty great. I think the first few Dark Souls bosses were much better though.

I love the shit out of it. I have no problems with frame rate and I'm on PS3. I've literally solved all of No Man's Wharf, Lost Bastille, and Tower of Flame. Also beaten Giants, Bellfry Luna, Lost Sinner, and working on Huntsmans Copse. Literally no framerate problems, even with 3 players on screen and tons of enemies.

I am liking the game. The Pursuer alone was harder than the first 1/4 of Dark Souls bosses solo.

Also, hit boxes are not broken. I think you might just not have a grasp on the weapons you're using.

I'm all for tactical healing, believe me, but as Zeik mentioned I think they might have taken it a bit far when there is almost never a proper opening for using Flasks as opposed to stones. Even with a slow boss like the stone giant, he had to be at the very end of the room in order to pop the heal and have enough time for the animation to run it's course before I could bring my shield back up. During the Pursuer boss fight using an Estus is highly risky at best and simply impossible at worst.

At this point I've relegated Estus use to healing damage sustained from exploring new areas between bonfires. Any time I'm in an active engagement or a boss fight it's stones only. If that was the intended design then I guess I'm playing it properly, but it's strange to make the Estus flask nearly useless in combat after it was the mainstay in the first game. It's like they wanted to go back to the grasses from Demon's but the Estus was such a large part of the Dark Souls fiction they didn't want to do away with it completely, so they left it in but made it very impractical to use.

I'm still having fun. Helped some people with the Dragonrider fight. I always ran past the three knights in the middle so during one of my co-op runs it was very interesting to find out that there is a second switch that raises the very outer ring in that boss fight - huh who would've thought..

I feel like i am getting the experience i paid for.

I started out pumped, then after about two hours I was seriously considering if I actually liked the game. I was struggling so much with the subtle (but significant) changes made to the way your character moved, and animated. I died so many times just because my dodges were slower, attack animations longer, the occasional time I was staggered out of shield block and you do that horribly animated, terrible arms above your head for a solid 4 seconds animation (add to that the game has moved towards fighting more than one enemy at a time, so your attack timings are just that much more critical). But then I crested the peak where I adapted, got my DS1 muscle memory out of my system and then things made sense. It's a lot less forgiving of a game, and they've added a lot of weight to the animations, and lengthier whiff animations. DS1 feels almost arcady now with the crazy half naked super rolls, and fast recovery.

So yes, I am now liking the game a lot now that I'm understanding the new combat. And aside from a couple bosses which gave me grief (Three sentinels, what a grueling, arduous fight that was to solo) I've sort of been flying through the game.

If I had to give one tip to people struggling with some boss fights (and any solo enemy)... Stand right beside them, circle strafe and don't stop until they attack and get caught in an animation, then hit once or twice, and resume strafing. (And for newer players who may not do this: Lower your shield between enemy attacks provided there's time. Most bosses give you 1-2 seconds between attacks and that's more than enough time to regenerate a significant chunk of stamina. Just don't sit there holding your shield up.)

I find Estus healing to be most problematic when you're fighting a group of enemies or enemy players, especially in an area with limited movement. For instance, getting invaded in the dog pit in the Belfry Luna. Other than climbing your ass up the ladder and out the pit, there is barely a window of opportunity to heal without getting rapid fire bit by 5 dogs and ganked by a phantom faster than your estus can heal. Hell the entire Belfry Luna is a group gank fest from gray phantom invaders, the gargoyles, and the dog pit. So much bullshit in one area.

I've managed quite well with the new estus system and don't think it needs to be instant, but there have been many situations where I wish it was. Or at least much faster.

I'm only four hours in, so this might change, but I'm having fun, most deaths end with me laughing at myself. Combat is fun and satisfying and death either always feels like my fault or comes from some sort of set-up designed to mess with the player that I can't help but laugh at.

I couldn't wait to beat ds1, and started up ds2 today (though, Im done playing it before I beat ds1). I think I like the way it controls better than ds1 (character movement and such), but something about the camera feels off. Not sure if it's just me (tried adjusting it, and it feels weird compared to most third person cameras. maybe a bit floaty).

Also, that starting area by the sea is really amazing. One of the most stunning game environments I've ever seen.

@humanity: I feel like you need to be comfortable with boss attack patterns more than ever to be able to safely and consistently use Estus Flasks. There are usually plenty of opportunities to use an Estus, but you have to recognize when they are. I'll use the Old Dragonslayer as an example (since I beat him recently.) The first handful of times I got my ass handed to me pretty bad because I fell into my usual bad habit of playing too defensively and trying to block everything (which is much less viable than it used to be), which gave me basically no breathing room to do much of anything. Eventually I stopped being such a coward and learned when to actually dodge some of his attacks, which often would give you ample time for an Estus or a counterattack. For example, when you're up in his face he'll often start a combo with a basic jab followed a longer combo or a massive upper thrust, but both of those can be avoided by blocking the first poke and then evading backward, and he has a long recovery after them. (Especially the uppercut.) A different example is the Pursuer. I died against him as much as any boss in any Souls game, but eventually I realized if you strafe to the right a lot of his attacks will completely whiff. Once you recognize which attacks those are (like when he charges you) you can prepare yourself to use an Estus immediately and still have time to recover before he attacks again.

I'm having fun. Played around 13 hours despite only getting the game on Friday. I feel like the leveling is far too weird though. I'm already Soul Level 96. 96 in 13 hours and 2 minutes seems insane to me. Aside from co-oping bosses 6 times I haven't gone out of my way to grind souls either.

I don't like how you block and get hit in this game either. I can't even describe it but I feel like Dark Souls had much better feedback and weight when blocking and taking hits. Aside from one boss fight I've gotten rid of my shield because of this.