2012's 2008 Game of the Year Debating is Reopened

I'm sure there are already threads about this but whatever, I'm still new to GB.

As I am listening to all the Bombcasts I just hit the year 2009 which means one of the last episodes I have listened to was the 2008 Game of the Year Podcast and the GB Crew got GotY wrong. GTA4 is a fine game and deserves a lot of credit for what it did almost 4 years ago BUT it is also very overrated in my opinion and what is great about the game gets old after 10 years and what is bad about the game gets worse after about 2 hours. Brad is absolutely correct in that MGS4 deserved to be GotY. MGS4 is personally one of my favorite gaming experiences of all time and has so many memorable moments. My Xbot friends even went out of their way to play the game that year because of word of mouth.

Looking back now GTA4 was a good experience but one I do not want to play again anytime soon and possibly ever. MGS4 on the other hand I play every year at least once on the day it originally came out. In listening to the GotY 2008 Podcast I wasn't convinced that GTA4 was the best game that year and even looking back on BC's from May through June, MGS4 trumps GTA4 in total discussion and even had it's own Podcast dedicated to talking about how fucking awesome it was.

If you agree or disagree I would love to hear as this is probably the closest GotY discussion in the existence of Giant Bomb. 2009 easily UC2, 2010 easily ME2, and 2011 was convincingly Skyrim. 2008 is still up for debate to me.

I disagree, but I do so without a whole lot of basis (since I've never played MGS4, so I can't speak to that).

As far as video game storytelling goes, GTA IV felt incredibly mature, like there had been a significant step taken in the kinds of stories video games were able to explore and, indeed, narrate. I'm sure MGS4 is a worthy game, and an incredible game in its own right, but GTA IV was Rockstar finally linking its hands at the fingers, stretching until its knuckles popped, and creating the richest narrative world a video game had, to that point, ever had. The writing is very dense, very human, and strikingly cinematic. I know I'm leaving out a plethora of topics that others will eventually harp on (the driving controls, and the shooting perhaps), but when I look back on what GTA is now, and why it's important, it's because they knew the open-world genre was changing, and because they were the vanguards of its change in the way no one anticipated.

The time is now!

MGS4 is far better than GTAIV, but to be honest I didn't even like GTAIV that much.

Yeah, MGS4 rightfully deserves it, it's still a masterpiece. My personal other favorite would be Dead Space. As for 2009, I don't think Uncharted 2 deserves it from my perspective, meaning I personally wouldn't have chose it, I liked a whole lot of games more; Modern Warfare 2, ODST, Arkham Asylum, Dragon Age: Origins, Killzone 2, Assassin's Creed 2, well yeah. When it comes to 2010, I can settle for Mass Effect 2, but I did like Red Dead Redemption just as much, then Halo: Reach, and then Alan Wake and Splinter Cell: Conviction weren't far behind, but those just weren't as worthy. My favorite 2011 title was Dead Space 2; I couldn't get into Skyrim at all.

MGS4 wasn't much of a 'game' in my opinion. It was a pretty awesome experience, but the 'game' was ok. I recall one evening turning on my PS3, watching an hour of cutscenes (a boat on the river), saving when I could and going to bed. Controller not touched. The game bits were better than some MGS games, but still not fantastic (though the throwback to Metal Gear Solid from the PS1 was awesome).

GTAIV I enjoyed a hell of a lot. The gamey bits were pretty good, typical GTA fair but with improved shooting. The characters and story was more likeable and believable. It was up there for my personal GOTY that Year and I think it was well deserved.

This is not to say that GTAIV is 'better' than MGS4 or vice-versa, but I don't think it is a valid argument saying that Giantbomb was 'wrong' in their decision.

Opinions, man. I'd still take GTA.

I don't know what it was about MGS4, but I still have yet to beat it. I loved MGS2 and MGS3 to death, but I just got so so so fucking bored with MGS4 once I got to the stealth-y mission where you're younger Snake in a trench coat that I quit it and haven't been able to go back to it.

GTAIV on the other hand I found phenomenal. It's still the only game that brought out a few tears in me. I loved the story, and some of the missions were so so fucking good (like the heist.) I don't remember everything that came out in '08, but GTAIV was up there on my list for sure.

@Nightriff said:

Brad is absolutely correct in that MGS4 deserved to be GotY.

That's a weird way to spell Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts.

GTA 4 is one of my favorite games ever. The city, driving, missions, story, physics, graphics... I dug all of it. It deserved the praise, the only thing it doesn't deserve is the multiplayer being successful. A ton of people still play that shit.

@ez123 said:

@Nightriff said:

Brad is absolutely correct in that MGS4 deserved to be GotY.

That's a weird way to spell Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts.

GTA 4 is one of my favorite games ever. The city, driving, missions, story, physics, graphics... I dug all of it. It deserved the praise, the only thing it doesn't deserve is the multiplayer being successful. A ton of people still play that shit.

I agree the multiplayer was kind of shitty, but the stuff that would just dynamically happen in Free Roam was fucking amazing. I hopped in this dude's car, shooting at other dudes while he drove to the airport and we jumped in the police helicopter and after swooping down on other players, he took us to the top of a skyscraper and I had to suicide because I got stuck in terrain and was bummed because I lost my duder, so I'm sitting behind a dumpster with a pistol fighting off two guys with assault rifles, and right as I'm about to die, that guy swoops in, machine-guns down one of the two guys shooting me, then lands right on top of the other, then I jump in and we fly off to cause more havoc. It was one of the coolest open-world-y multiplayer experiences I have had.

So OP, what you are saying is that you did not like the ending to 2008 GOTY podcast, that you feel cheated, robbed that GB did not take into account your personal experience with MGS4, and are indignant about the whole situation. Well, you know what MUST be done. I am just going to leave this here:

Change.org

And yes, I will sign your cause.

I completely agreed with Brad about Banjo Kazooie that year. My god I loved the shit out of the game. Collected absolutely everything and loved every minute of it. Making crazy ass machines to play around with was just a completely worthwhile and memorable experience. Rare was correct taking the series in that direction, IMO.

But to be honest, while MGS4 was an OK game it was definitely the worst in the series. Raiden's badassery saved it and if it wasn't for him that game would have been one bore fest cinematic. I GTA4 was fun, but definitely not GOTY material... so I would say I enjoyed BK way more than both of these titles combined.

I bought it when Banjo Kazooie: Nuts And Bolts when it first came out waaaay back then after Brad explained how awesome it was and proceeded to play nothing but that game for like a month or so.  I replayed Banjo Kazooie Nuts and Bolts last summer and I definitely feel it stands up as an amazing game.  I really enjoyed GTA4 but in terms of pure fun, Banjo had it beat so badly it wasn't even close.    I still have Hero Klungo Sssavesss teh World as my xbox avatar. It will always be that, there is simply nothing better.
 
It's a shame we'll never see more of it since Rare seems to have been forced into doing grunt work instead of making super ultra whimsical games that are genuinely fun, unlike 90% of the garbage out today. 
 
WE NEED MORE VIVA PINATA

Frankly as soon as I started reading that you thought GTA IV overrated I was prepared to not like you. 
But then you suggested MGS4 instead. 
You know what, you're ok.

@Ben_H said:

WE NEED MORE VIVA PINATA

SOMEONE GIVE THIS MAN A KICKSTARTER!!!

We all know Burnout Paradise is where its at.

@xobballox: Yeah, Free Roam was fun but only for so long. I didn't like any of the modes with objectives. Racing was alright but there are actual racing games out there. That multiplayer just felt tacked on and it's still pretty high on the list Major Nelson puts out, it's baffling to me.

They are both pretty awesome.  I played through MGS4 more times, but it was shorter.  MGS4 is sort of crazy nonsense, but that's what it's always been and it's kind of what you sign up for.  GTA4 tried something different and it's story falls apart toward the middle and doesn't really recover.  They both had unique but forgettable multiplayer modes.  I don't know.
 
Hard choice, but the winner is.. Left 4 Dead.

I would have picked Fallout 3.

@xobballox said:

I don't know what it was about MGS4, but I still have yet to beat it. I loved MGS2 and MGS3 to death, but I just got so so so fucking bored with MGS4 once I got to the stealth-y mission where you're younger Snake in a trench coat that I quit it and haven't been able to go back to it.

GTAIV on the other hand I found phenomenal. It's still the only game that brought out a few tears in me. I loved the story, and some of the missions were so so fucking good (like the heist.) I don't remember everything that came out in '08, but GTAIV was up there on my list for sure.

Oh man, you really need to get past that part (I know it's bad) - use a guide if you have to - there are such crazy amounts of crazy that you've missed after that you just have to see if you were into MGS2 and MGS3 that much. You owe it to yourself!

On topic, I enjoyed MGS4 more than GTAIV, but I don't think their GOTY 2008 was wrong. Their GOTY is their GOTY.

@Galiant: I think part of it is that I kind of know the major things that happen later on from the bomb cast and from my younger brother playing it behind me. The only thing I would play it for at this point is the crazy-as-all-hell sequences and since I know most of them, I don't have much motivation to go back.

I had to do a little searching to see what exactly came out in 2008, but If I made a Goty list that year mine would've been between Persona 4 and Fallout 3. Most likely Persona 4 as GotY and Fallout 3 in second. I didn't care for GTA all that much, but it might have been in my top 10 somewhere...I'd have to really check all the 2008 games to know for sure. MGS4 would not be on my list, at all. I didn't get to play MGS4 until early 2011, though, so I don't know if I might have enjoyed it more back in 2008 or what, but I didn't enjoy it much at all.

@NTM said:

Yeah, MGS4 rightfully deserves it, it's still a masterpiece. My personal other favorite would be Dead Space. As for 2009, I don't think Uncharted 2 deserves it from my perspective, meaning I personally wouldn't have chose it, I liked a whole lot of games more; Modern Warfare 2, ODST, Arkham Asylum, Dragon Age: Origins, Killzone 2, Assassin's Creed 2, well yeah. When it comes to 2010, I can settle for Mass Effect 2, but I did like Red Dead Redemption just as much, then Halo: Reach, and then Alan Wake and Splinter Cell: Conviction weren't far behind, but those just weren't as worthy. My favorite 2011 title was Dead Space 2; I couldn't get into Skyrim at all.

Good point, I forgot DAO came out in '09 cause I played it in '10 and easily was my favorite game from that year but I do understand more why UC2 was given the game of the year and now I actually look foreword to that BC because that should be a heated debate between UC2 and B:AA.

@K9 said:

So OP, what you are saying is that you did not like the ending to 2008 GOTY podcast, that you feel cheated, robbed that GB did not take into account your personal experience with MGS4, and are indignant about the whole situation. Well, you know what MUST be done. I am just going to leave this here:

Change.org

And yes, I will sign your cause.

No no no, not at all, I don't want to change anything to the BC and too ME3, it would be unfair to the GB crew to ask for a change the 2008 BC because I wasn't even listening then. I just wanted to discuss what people personally thought was the GotY that year between GTA4 and MGS4. And this has turned out better than I thought. Not only do people disagree and agree with me but many people thought other games were more deserving. L4D, Dead Space, Burnout, BK:NnB, etc.

@ez123 said:

@Nightriff said:

Brad is absolutely correct in that MGS4 deserved to be GotY.

That's a weird way to spell Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts.

Man. In retrospect, that is my 2008 Game of the Year. I didn't start doing lists until '09, but Nuts and Bolts is such a joy to mess around with. Sure, sometimes the game demands more from you than can be easily accomplished in the builder, but when it doesn't it's astounding. Also one of the best TNTs they did.

Cannot comment on GTA 4 or MGS 4, as I have played neither, though I still mean to play MGS 4 whenever I end up getting a PS3. So in like 3 years.

@Ben_H: Rare was dead to some people after they were bought by MS. No matter how great Nuts & Bolts and Viva Pinata were(pretty fucking great), they aren't magically going to make Nintendo/nostalgia fans sane.

Though now it looks like they're actually dead but hopefully they're working on a launch game or two(played with controllers) for the next console.

MGS 4 is the shiznit. MGS 3 was better, but GOD DAMN that pooled will sequence is good enough to take GOTY for me. GTA IV was a GTA game............ I got enough GTA from Vice City and SA, I can see why people would love GTA IV but for me it was so meh. I didn't really dig the setting, I enjoyed the previous 2 entries a lot more. Same reason I'm not overly excited about GTA 5, after playin AC, Infamous, and Batman I much rather have those kind of open world games than the GTA crime type. Just personal taste

I hear that Saints Row the Third is pretty good, at this point if I was to get back to that genre it would probably be through that game rather than any GTA game.

I agree that MGS4 is the better game of the two, but you sound like a fanboy.MGS as a series is really close to my heart, but the thing subjectivity.

It could have used some heavy editing, and imo it started to veer too much to the "this is a crazy japanese game" direction.

i didn't get to play mgs4 until two years after the fact but from my experience its a great game but not GOTY great. GTAIV was though. and should have been 2008 GOTY

I think MGS4 and GTAIV are both great games, I really like the story, tone and characters in GTAIV. Even dudes like Roman I had a soft spot for as time went on. Liberty City felt alive. And while it's not as out there as Vice City and San Andreas, its a pretty cool game. Didn't it make Jeff cry?

MGS4 is mechanically the best MGS game. I love the way it controls, shooting doesn't feel as weird as the other games and the octocamo is awesome along with some of the bosses. If MGS1 2 and especially 3, had the aiming of 4, they'd be perfect IMO.

However I do think MGS4 it is the weakest of the series in other aspects. While fan service is great and the game has everything a good MGS game should, I was really let down with the explanation that nanomachines did everything. Vamp, Psycho Mantis, Ocelot being Liquid, and all the other super natural stuff should have just been unexplained and mystical. Now I'm just confused on what Ocelot was doing this whole time. Also the first two acts had interesting environments, chapter 3 sucked other than the chase homage, and other chapters were cool but not as open. Shadow moses however, that was bad ass. It's an amazing game, but it suffers from having to wrap up 4 games worth of story. By the end of MGS2 the Patriots seem like gods, By the end of 4 they are just nanomachines and some old dude.

Good old opinions.

Personally, I am still yet to finish MGS4, and that is coming one of the hugest fans of MGS1-3. 3 goes down as one my favorite games of all time, so the idea that I still haven't made it through 4 annoys the hell outta me, I just don't enjoy what I've played of it. I want crazily good stealth, espionage, survival, and constant ridiculousness in my MGS, and all I seem to get when I play is forced weak third-person shooting. I at least finished GTA IV and that's a damn good game. I still say LBP was probably my GotY 2008.

MGS4 was half a game, mixed in with half of a really shitty movie.

GTA4 is a vastly superior game.

2008: Fallout 3 - both GTA IV and MGS4 were excellent interactive cinematic experiences, but the actual game aspect of these two games left something to be desired. In both of these games, I enjoyed the cutscenes more than the actual game.

2009: Dragon Age Origins - I feel about Uncharted 2 the same way I feel about GTA and MGS. An amazing cinematic experience, a decent though unimpressive "game". Arkham Asylum is probably my number 2 of the year.

2010: Mass Effect 2 - I never could get into Red Dead (about 8 hours played), I really should go back and finish that...

2011: Skyrim - Both Arkham City and Uncharted 3 were great, but not much of an improvement from their predecessors. Special mention to LA Noire, a great modernization of the adventure genre.

@xobballox said:

@Galiant: I think part of it is that I kind of know the major things that happen later on from the bomb cast and from my younger brother playing it behind me. The only thing I would play it for at this point is the crazy-as-all-hell sequences and since I know most of them, I don't have much motivation to go back.

Oh, I see. That's too bad! Experiencing all those things without knowing they were coming...it was a hell of a ride.

Dead Space should've won.

@Claude said:

I would have picked Fallout 3.

This right here.

I like GTA a lot, and GTA IV is good, but MGS4 has it beat. Although neither of them are the best games of their respective series.

What a fucking joke. I will agree that my satisfaction with GTA4 has waned over the years because of the graphics and weird gameplay changes that I kinda let go at the time. Driving while more realistic, at least more physics based, is not as fun and tight as the previous games on the PS2. The graphics just look like a muddy mess.

That said, MGS4? My opinion of that game has gotten even worse and I will go with this guy...

@Captain_Insano said:

MGS4 wasn't much of a 'game' in my opinion. It was a pretty awesome experience, but the 'game' was ok. I recall one evening turning on my PS3, watching an hour of cutscenes (a boat on the river), saving when I could and going to bed. Controller not touched. The game bits were better than some MGS games, but still not fantastic (though the throwback to Metal Gear Solid from the PS1 was awesome).

Except that as I think of it now, I don't think the story was much to write home about either. It was all about cramming in all the characters and plot points Kojima could to do fan service. Fan service would have been making a story that made sense... as much as it could in that world... I will put aside the stupidity of some of it but come on...

• making Olga's kid a genius just to give her a role
• nanomachines do everything
• Otacon, cries, yet again
• The Patriots are just the guys from MGS3 and you even met some in MGS1? Fuck you Kojima
• Big Boss is alive because they pieced him back together...
• Major Zero, the real asshole I guess the whole time can just be killed by turning off his oxygen
• Raiden is still a bitch, even as a cyborg ninja. Crying about Rose still

And for me, the only enjoyable part of the game really was the sequence where you have a flashback to MGS1 and revisit Shadow Moses. I loved that part and will admit I fell into Kojima's nostalgia trap. But guess that just reinforces the idea that Metal Gear Solid 1 was the shit! And also that was also the portion of the game with the longest gameplay sequences between cutscenes. So to think that MGS4 is a better game, now or at that time is ludicrous. I understand why fans would love it, because they think Kojima actually has talent... Its like no one bothered to tell him, "hey, that is pretty fucking stupid." or "that shit doesn't make sense."

That is not to say GTA4 doesn't have its faults beyond what I listed. I hated Roman. I was hoping for an ending like GTA3 where the protagonist shoots Maria. Roman just fucks up everything for you and would have been more satisfying if you had killed him, not a drive by.

It's been such a long time since I player either of those games. But for some reason memories of GTA IV have stuck with me far better than those of MGS4. This doesn't necessarily mean that GTA IV is the superior game, but I would lean that way in this case. Also, Fallout 3 was pretty darn special.

Saints Row 2.

3rd Street Saints 4 Life.

@Claude said:

I would have picked Fallout 3.

This right here.

MGS2 is my favourite game of all time. MGS4 is not very good.

GTAIII is one of my favourite games of all time. GTAIV was a travesty of conginitive dissonance & a negative dichotomy between the story/gameplay.

Braid was a more visceral & engaging experience than either of these games in 2008. Left 4 Dead, Portal, Lost Odyssey & Yakuza 2 trump them also in my opinion.

Am I allowed to throw in a wild card and say Super Smash Bros Brawl!?

Because if not, f the rules I am doing so regardless!

I am going to pick GTA IV

Yeah, I didn't really like GTAIV as much as everyone else seemed to.

If Snake killed himself and the ending wasn't so fucking sappy and silly frankly (oh Raiden's family is actually alive? I couldn't have guessed), I would say MGS4 hands down no question. But since Kojima fucked the ending up so badly I can't say it's better than GTA IV. That game had it's problems too but to me it's pretty much a toss up I guess. MGS4 had some incredible moments (Snake vs Liquid on the Rex was one of the best gaming moments ever) so I might still give it to that game. I also liked Red Dead way more than GTA IV, so that hurts it looking back (which I realize isn't fair, just saying)

@TheHBK said:

• Otacon, cries, yet again

Oh god, I forgot about this. Not only was it pathetic, but actually super creepy. I didn't like Otacon anymore.

METAL GEAR SOLID 4 IS THE WORST. THE ABSOLUTE MOTHERFUCKING WORST. IT IS AS BAD AS IF THE ENDING OF MASS EFFECT 3 HAD REALLY BEEN THE ILLUSIVE MAN RAPING THE GENTRIFIED CORPSE OF SAREN WHILE EXPLAINING THAT NOTHING IN THE SERIES HAD EVER HAPPENED BECAUSE INDOCTRINATION.

Fuck you. Fuck you fuck you FUCK YOU. You could've said Persona 4, you could've said Fallout 3, you could've said Braid, you could've said motherfucking Fable II and I wouldn't be upset. But fucking METAL GEAR SOLID 4 IS THE WORST.

...ahem. Sorry, only MGS4 has the power to do that to me. Apparently, you don't actually like the rest of Metal Gear Solid, 'cause if you did, you'd understand why explaining the entire series away because "nanomachines" only to REEXPLAIN everything because "nanomachines" in the epilogue is the fucking worst storytelling ever. That game has amazing moments, but the rest is literally constantly shitting down my throat because I had the gall to actually fall in love with Metal Gear Solid after MGS3.

Also, you are wrong about every other year you brought up. Batman and Assassin's Creed were both better than Uncharted 2 because they weren't absolutely wrecked by blue dudes, ME2 can convincingly lose to Red Dead Redemption, StarCraft II and Super Meat Boy (even though none of them are better than Deadly Premonition) and The Witcher II kind of crushes Skyrim, leaving only Saints Row The Third or Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective to actually be 2011's Game of the Year. But all of those can be explained away by us having different tastes. Your love for MGS4 just means we might be mortal enemies.

I haven't played much of gta 4 but metal gear solid 4 is a helluva game.

MGS4 doesn't deserve it, but neither does GTAIV so

BOTH MGS4 GTA4 are not the great. GTA4 is far more playable by the lat person and hence edges it out in a GOTY context. Also it is tough to think that far back.