He's a separate character as far as gameplay goes, though. Noob Saibot is also Sub Zero, but he's still a vastly different character.
Yeah he's a different spot on the selection screen. Now if it was just a costume I'd say delete it, but it's not. by the logic of he's just sub-zero turned cyber, Noob Saibot should not have his own page.
He's a separate character as far as gameplay goes, though. Noob Saibot is also Sub Zero, but he's still a vastly different character.
Noob Saibot and Cyber Sub-Zero are the alter-egos of the regular Sub-Zeroes. They may be different in terms of gameplay, but they're still the same characters.
He's a separate character as far as gameplay goes, though. Noob Saibot is also Sub Zero, but he's still a vastly different character.
Noob Saibot and Cyber Sub-Zero are the alter-egos of the regular Sub-Zeroes. They may be different in terms of gameplay, but they're still the same characters.
How about this? When MK10 comes out, if there is story advancement with Cyber Subzero. He keeps the page. If there is not he gets deleted.
@Hailinel: It is the same character but any character who branches off would have it's own page. However, when I went to look for an example Anakin is listed as Darth Vadar.... so maybe you have a point.
He's a separate character as far as gameplay goes, though. Noob Saibot is also Sub Zero, but he's still a vastly different character.
Noob Saibot and Cyber Sub-Zero are the alter-egos of the regular Sub-Zeroes. They may be different in terms of gameplay, but they're still the same characters.
How about this? When MK10 comes out, if there is story advancement with Cyber Subzero. He keeps the page. If there is not he gets deleted.
It's still the same character. This has already been ruled on in the past. When two characters are in fact the same character, they get the same page. The same was true for York and Zach in Deadly Premonition. Both are on the Francis York Morgan page.
He's a separate character as far as gameplay goes, though. Noob Saibot is also Sub Zero, but he's still a vastly different character.
Noob Saibot and Cyber Sub-Zero are the alter-egos of the regular Sub-Zeroes. They may be different in terms of gameplay, but they're still the same characters.
That's what I said, just rearranged to make the opposite argument.
He's a separate character as far as gameplay goes, though. Noob Saibot is also Sub Zero, but he's still a vastly different character.
Noob Saibot and Cyber Sub-Zero are the alter-egos of the regular Sub-Zeroes. They may be different in terms of gameplay, but they're still the same characters.
How about this? When MK10 comes out, if there is story advancement with Cyber Subzero. He keeps the page. If there is not he gets deleted.
It's still the same character. This has already been ruled on in the past. When two characters are in fact the same character, they get the same page. The same was true for York and Zach in Deadly Premonition. Both are on the Francis York Morgan page.
Well it's pretty different from york's situation, but argument could go on forever. Such as Siegfried and Nightmare are really the same person, but have their own pages.
He's a separate character as far as gameplay goes, though. Noob Saibot is also Sub Zero, but he's still a vastly different character.
Noob Saibot and Cyber Sub-Zero are the alter-egos of the regular Sub-Zeroes. They may be different in terms of gameplay, but they're still the same characters.
How about this? When MK10 comes out, if there is story advancement with Cyber Subzero. He keeps the page. If there is not he gets deleted.
It's still the same character. This has already been ruled on in the past. When two characters are in fact the same character, they get the same page. The same was true for York and Zach in Deadly Premonition. Both are on the Francis York Morgan page.
Well it's pretty different from york's situation, but argument could go on forever. Such as Siegfried and Nightmare are really the same person, but have their own pages.
Nightmare is different from Siegfried. Nightmare isn't even possessing Siegfried in Soul Calibur IV. It is an independent entity.
He's a separate character as far as gameplay goes, though. Noob Saibot is also Sub Zero, but he's still a vastly different character.
Noob Saibot and Cyber Sub-Zero are the alter-egos of the regular Sub-Zeroes. They may be different in terms of gameplay, but they're still the same characters.
How about this? When MK10 comes out, if there is story advancement with Cyber Subzero. He keeps the page. If there is not he gets deleted.
It's still the same character. This has already been ruled on in the past. When two characters are in fact the same character, they get the same page. The same was true for York and Zach in Deadly Premonition. Both are on the Francis York Morgan page.
Well it's pretty different from york's situation, but argument could go on forever. Such as Siegfried and Nightmare are really the same person, but have their own pages.
Nightmare is different from Siegfried. Nightmare isn't even possessing Siegfried in Soul Calibur IV. It is an independent entity.
Actually he has not been possessing Siegfried since SC1.
What takes priority in the wiki here, gameplay or story? I don't do wiki editing, so I honestly don't know. If it's gameplay, he should keep his page. If it's story, then it should be merged with Sub-Zero's (or Kuai Liang's, if we're going to split hairs).
What takes precedent in the wiki here, gameplay or story? I don't do wiki editing, so I honestly don't know. If it's gameplay, he should keep his page. If it's story, then it should be merged with Sub-Zero's.
Yeah, it comes down to this, really. I'm operating under the assumption that gameplay comes first, but of course, I could be wrong.
What takes priority in the wiki here, gameplay or story? I don't do wiki editing, so I honestly don't know. If it's gameplay, he should keep his page. If it's story, then it should be merged with Sub-Zero's.
They are the same character, thus Cyber Sub-Zero is just an alias of Sub-Zero. He already had this alias before this new Cyber Sub-Zero page was created. Gameplay information for both incarnations are supposed to be on the Sub-Zero page.
I don't think they should be the same page. If we were talking about Zangief and mecha Gief, that would be one thing, but Noob Siabot, Sub Zero, and Cyber Sub Zero are all three different people, but the same character.
What takes priority in the wiki here, gameplay or story? I don't do wiki editing, so I honestly don't know. If it's gameplay, he should keep his page. If it's story, then it should be merged with Sub-Zero's.
They are the same character, thus Cyber Sub-Zero is just an alias of Sub-Zero. He already had this alias before this new Cyber Sub-Zero page was created. Gameplay information for both incarnations are supposed to be on the Sub-Zero page.
Story wise, yes they are the same but not in terms of gameplay. How are we defining character? Who they are or how they play? If you really wanted to solve this isssue, drop the Sub-Zero page all together and have Bi-Han and Kuai Liang, since Sub-Zero now encompasses 4 characters.
I'm no MK expert, but from reading the Sub-zero page you could technically make 2 separate pages for the two brothers. One for Bi Han/Noob Saibot. Another for Kuai Liang/Cyber Sub-zero. Would be kinda odd for them to be under those names instead of the name they mainly go by, though.
@ShaggE said:
@SoldierG654342 said:
What takes precedent in the wiki here, gameplay or story? I don't do wiki editing, so I honestly don't know. If it's gameplay, he should keep his page. If it's story, then it should be merged with Sub-Zero's.
Yeah, it comes down to this, really. I'm operating under the assumption that gameplay comes first, but of course, I could be wrong.
Yeah....I kinda agree with that. With fighting games it seems like it should be a different character as long as they are selected separate and have different moves/play styles. Either way seems to make sense to me.
I don't think they should be the same page. If we were talking about Zangief and mecha Gief, that would be one thing, but Noob Siabot, Sub Zero, and Cyber Sub Zero are all three different people, but the same character.
There are two Sub-Zeroes. One becomes Noob Saibot, the other becomes Cyber Sub-Zero. Both are aliases of their respective Sub-Zero pages.
I think one page is fine for all as long as when you type it in the field it directs you to the page. I guess the reason it got it's own page is because even though it's the same person when you play the game you don't click on Sub Zero to get Cyber. Which kind of drives me mad because him and the DLC characters don't have their own stats in the Krypt. (I might be wrong on Cyber)
I don't think they should be the same page. If we were talking about Zangief and mecha Gief, that would be one thing, but Noob Siabot, Sub Zero, and Cyber Sub Zero are all three different people, but the same character.
There are two Sub-Zeroes. One becomes Noob Saibot, the other becomes Cyber Sub-Zero. Both are aliases of their respective Sub-Zero pages.
So Noob Saibot shouldn't have a page then either?
I'm putting my vote in for keeping the page (although it really needs filled out). Cyber Sub has his own space on the character select screen and a completely different move set and playstyle, so he should be treated as his own separate character.
That, or there should be no Sub-Zero page, since Sub-Zero is just an alias itself.
I think one page is fine for all as long as when you type it in the field it directs you to the page. I guess the reason it got it's own page is because even though it's the same person when you play the game you don't click on Sub Zero to get Cyber. Which kind of drives me mad because him and the DLC characters don't have their own stats in the Krypt. (I might be wrong on Cyber)
Type Cyber Sub-Zero in and it displays that it's an alias of Sub-Zero in the search window.
What takes priority in the wiki here, gameplay or story? I don't do wiki editing, so I honestly don't know. If it's gameplay, he should keep his page. If it's story, then it should be merged with Sub-Zero's.
They are the same character, thus Cyber Sub-Zero is just an alias of Sub-Zero. He already had this alias before this new Cyber Sub-Zero page was created. Gameplay information for both incarnations are supposed to be on the Sub-Zero page.
By this logic, the Sub Zero page itself needs to be split in two since it technically covers two completely different entities - both the younger Sub-Zero and the older one. I say that Cyber and Noob are both substantially different characters in the context of Mortal Kombat and that they should continue to have their own pages.
What takes priority in the wiki here, gameplay or story? I don't do wiki editing, so I honestly don't know. If it's gameplay, he should keep his page. If it's story, then it should be merged with Sub-Zero's.
They are the same character, thus Cyber Sub-Zero is just an alias of Sub-Zero. He already had this alias before this new Cyber Sub-Zero page was created. Gameplay information for both incarnations are supposed to be on the Sub-Zero page.
By this logic, the Sub Zero page itself needs to be split in two since it technically covers two completely different entities - both the younger Sub-Zero and the older one. I say that Cyber and Noob are both substantially different characters in the context of Mortal Kombat and that they should continue to have their own pages.
THERE ARE ALREADY TWO PAGES, ONE FOR EACH SUB-ZERO. USE THE SEARCH ENGINE FOR FUCK'S SAKE.
What takes priority in the wiki here, gameplay or story? I don't do wiki editing, so I honestly don't know. If it's gameplay, he should keep his page. If it's story, then it should be merged with Sub-Zero's.
They are the same character, thus Cyber Sub-Zero is just an alias of Sub-Zero. He already had this alias before this new Cyber Sub-Zero page was created. Gameplay information for both incarnations are supposed to be on the Sub-Zero page.
By this logic, the Sub Zero page itself needs to be split in two since it technically covers two completely different entities - both the younger Sub-Zero and the older one. I say that Cyber and Noob are both substantially different characters in the context of Mortal Kombat and that they should continue to have their own pages.
THERE ARE ALREADY TWO PAGES, ONE FOR EACH SUB-ZERO. USE THE SEARCH ENGINE FOR FUCK'S SAKE.
The Sub-Zero page talks about both the older one, prior to death and resurrection as Noob Saibot, and then the younger brother who takes up the role of Sub-Zero. The page even points out that there are two Sub-Zeros but itself fails to actually make clear which one the page is about.
What takes priority in the wiki here, gameplay or story? I don't do wiki editing, so I honestly don't know. If it's gameplay, he should keep his page. If it's story, then it should be merged with Sub-Zero's.
They are the same character, thus Cyber Sub-Zero is just an alias of Sub-Zero. He already had this alias before this new Cyber Sub-Zero page was created. Gameplay information for both incarnations are supposed to be on the Sub-Zero page.
By this logic, the Sub Zero page itself needs to be split in two since it technically covers two completely different entities - both the younger Sub-Zero and the older one. I say that Cyber and Noob are both substantially different characters in the context of Mortal Kombat and that they should continue to have their own pages.
THERE ARE ALREADY TWO PAGES, ONE FOR EACH SUB-ZERO. USE THE SEARCH ENGINE FOR FUCK'S SAKE.
The Sub-Zero page talks about both the older one, prior to death and resurrection as Noob Saibot, and then the younger brother who takes up the role of Sub-Zero. The page even points out that there are two Sub-Zeros but itself fails to actually make clear which one the page is about.
@Hailinel: I was already aware of the Noob Saibot page and it really had nothing to do with the point I was making, which was that the Sub-Zero page itself talks about both Bi Han and Kuai Liang. At the end of the day either these pages should be kept because they're different characters or consolidated under two pages: Bi Han and Kuai Liang, since Sub-Zero, Cyber Sub-Zero and Noob Saibot are technically all aliases.
Given the nature of different Mortal Kombat characters I would agree with most others here that they're significantly different entities in the context of the game and should be allowed to keep their own pages.
hell, even from a story context they both deserve their own pages.
Noob Saibot was Sub Zero's older brother, yes, but after death he turned into a wraith. His personality changed, and he is very little of what he was as a human. Practically nothing remains. He's a soulless, demonic husk.
Cyber Sub Zero faces the same sort of problem. He is much colder (har har), sure, but he's also more prone to heroic action as opposed to regular-ass Sub Zero. Both of these changes represent growth and maturity, albeit in different directions. For that reason alone I think they should keep separate pages. After all, how the hell do you maintain one page for four entities who shared the same name at one point in time?
@kingzetta: Actually, I believe that it was well documented in 1984 that the identity of the boss was in question and even up for grabs. While Tony was a heavy contender and former boss once he moved into Angela's home it all came into question. Was Angela the new boss? Well this question is never really answered and in fact it the show throws more options into the mix with Angela's mother coming into play and even Tony's daughter making a few attempts at control in later episodes. However in my opinion it's only ever really Tony and Angela and once they get together in the later episodes I think it becomes pretty clear who the boss is...if you catch my drift heh heh heh ;)
This is kind of tough. I would like to point out that Ryu and Evil Ryu both have the same page. I think it'd be fine if they shared the same page, but they are a very different example than Ryu and his evil counter-part. Evil Ryu just has slightly different moves than Ryu, while Cyber Sub-Zero feels like a different character.
I think this needs to be voted on. What counts more: Backstory/lore or character differences in a fighting game context? In my opinion, gameplay matters more than story in a fighting game, and both characters play very differently. I think there should be a vote on this one.
He is a character in a separate universe its valid enough I think
No, he's not.
How do you mean?
Cyber Sub-Zero is still Sub-Zero. It doesn't matter that the timeline was altered. It would be like arguing that Lucca's mother in Chrono Trigger should get two pages based on the versions of the timeline where she was crippled or rescued.
@blueduck: @kingzetta Of course Angelas the boss. it's been proven by science on multiple occasions that she is irrevocably, now and forever, and by all definition "The Boss".
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