New Platforms/Splitting Old Platforms

OK, I've been giving this some thought, and I wanted to bounce it off of you guys before we make any changes. 
 
The rolled-up platforms we're using for downloadable games are starting to get a little weird. 
 
"Xbox Live Marketplace" is currently handling the following things: 
 
Xbox Classics 
Xbox 360 Games on Demand 
Xbox Live Arcade 
Xbox 360 Indie Games 
Xbox 360 Game Room 
 
PlayStation Network is currently handling... 
 
Downloadable PSP Games (retail)  
PSP Minis 
Downloadable PSP Games (download-only)
Downloadable PS3 Games (download-only) 
Downloadable PS1 Games 
Downloadable PS3 Games (retail, currently only Burnout Paradise, I think) 
 
And the Wii Shop platform currently handles Virtual Console and WiiWare releases. This is probably the only one that still seems OK. 
 
I'm thinking that it might be time to split some of these things out into their own platforms. Specifically, PSN needs to be split into a PSN (PSP) and PSN (PS3) at the bare minimum, since some games, like echochrome, appear on both platforms as downloads. And with Game Room getting seven new games a week once it launches, the XBLM platform is just going to get weird fast. 
 
Here's my first crack at splitting them up. 
 
Xbox Live Marketplace turns into Xbox Live Arcade. 
Add Xbox 360 Indie Games. 
Add Xbox 360 Game Room. 
Add Xbox 360 Games on Demand (covers both 360 and Xbox 1 releases) 
 
PlayStation Network turns into PlayStation Network (PS3) 
Add PlayStation Network (PSP) 
PS1 releases would be tagged with both of these platforms. 
PSP Minis that are playable on both platforms would also be tagged with both platforms. 
 
Any of this make sense? Anyone got any ideas about better ways to split this stuff up? 

This isn't a democracy, just do it! Looks good to me, just make sure the community knows about it. You don't want to make the Wiki Mods mad.

looks good

makes sense to me.

" makes sense to me. "

It looks pretty daunting but it seems to make enough sense to me. I couldn't simplify it any more myself anyway.

It does look like it will keep things a little more organized.

Navigating through thousands of menus on XBLA to find what I want really enhances the experience for me. What can I say? The more time spent in menus looking for a game that is under some strange, strange category is more time spent not playing Halo. Which if there was a pie chart of my Xbox usage, the Halo part would be waaaay to big. 
  
Menus FTW baby!

Things may be rocky at the beginning, but I think once everyone fully comprehends what each category and sub-category means, it will make the wiki exponentially better.

" It does look like it will keep things a little more organized. "

I agree something can be done to improve organization amongst downloadable games.  Just be sure to start small at first and add deeper categorization later if warranted and you can't go wrong.

 Downloadable PS3 Games (retail, currently only Burnout Paradise, I think)  

I agree with splitting the PS3 and PSP PSN parts for sure. And I could see it getting confusing once the 360 Game Room starts getting populated with games.
 
While I got a little confused reading what all possible PSN game configurations existed, I easily followed the final rundown. And of course with this, if the PS3 does eventually come up with the ability to play full PSP games, each of those would have to be tagged with PS3 as well.

I agree with all theses ideas. The PSN platform is the one that definably needed to get changed. The PSP and PS3 are two completely different consoles!! I was bummed when a moderator declined this idea before, I thought it would never happen!  

 Xbox Live Marketplace turns into Xbox Live Arcade. 
Add Xbox 360 Indie Games. 
Add Xbox 360 Game Room. 
Add Xbox 360 Games on Demand (covers both 360 and Xbox 1 releases)

The goals in doing this sort of thing are... 
 
- Make the list of games on a given platform make sense. Xbox Live Marketplace is already cluttered with all of the Indie Games. Once Game Room hits, that list is going to get seven new old-ass games per week. Someone going to that platform page and looking through the list of games probably wouldn't find that list to be useful. 
 
- Releases can be more specific about how a game was released in each territory. Some games get discs in Japan and nothing over here, like Patapon 2. Granted, we can already do that with the current setup, but this would let us get more granular, which is handy when dealing with multiple territories.
 
I'd be really hesitant about adding any PC digital download services as platforms because there are a ton of them, and it'd be unfair to add Steam without then adding the eight trillion other services out there. Where does that end? Do we suddenly need "EA.com Store" as a platform? Waaaay too crazy. Plus, there aren't many meaningful differences between the different digital versions of a game.
 
Also, yes, we should probably add DSi as a platform, which would be added to DS and DSiWare. But let's wait until there's a meaningful number of DSi-only releases first. Making that change would probably confuse a lot of people and lead to people tagging every single DS game as both DS and DSi. Typically, the wiki entry for a DSi-only game should make that requirement clear up-front. 
 
OK, all this is making my head hurt. Back to listening to loud music and cleaning up the house in preparation for guests!

As someone with a tonne of experience doing stuff on the GB wiki, all these changes seem like they would be great, and make it easier to classify and keep track of these games. BUT it would make it much more daunting for newer users. There are already people who get slightly confused that we have PSN and Xbox Live Marketplace as separate platforms from PS3/PSP and 360. Adding more platforms to each console would cause more confusion and make things even more complicated for people new to the site.
 
I know that when people ask for improvements to site features, Dave often talks about the fine line between providing more complex and in-depth features for the existing users, and keeping it simple for new guys to the site. This is a very similar situation. While better classifications for XBLM and PSN games would definitely be more useful to existing experienced users, but would it alienate newer users by making things more complicated for them?
 
And one final point - do we really need it? It is already possible to find a list of all the Xbox Indie Games by visiting the XNA concept, all the Games on Demand games by visiting the Games on Demand concept. Experienced users can already find these more in-depth classifications of games, and then if they want a big list of all the games available for download on the Xbox 360, they can find that too. So I'm not sure we really need it.

Maybe it would be cool if Xbox Classics and Xbox 360 Games on Demand still remain separate. My reason for this is Xbox Classics can be 
purchased with microsoft points and have no achievements. 

The PS3 split is a great way to divide the games.

Hrmmm this is very interesting, but you know what, I say do it.  New users shouldn't feel too alienated, and like Jeff has already stated with the Xbox Game Room coming, the XBLA page is going to become way to overcrowded with titles. 

I still would prefer a Steam platform. I think there's enough Steam-only releases for it to warrant it being a it's own platform. As for the problem of there being lots of different digital distribution platforms on PC, Steam is by far the largest and most comprehensive of them all and I think the only other download store that comes close is Impulse. Just because you add Steam doesn't mean you have to add every other one.

"   Also, something I meant to bring up before...should DSi be a platform? There's only a very few DSi only games, but it seems like it would be. "

"And one final point - do we really need it? It is already possible to find a list of all the Xbox Indie Games by visiting the XNA concept, all the Games on Demand games by visiting the Games on Demand concept. Experienced users can already find these more in-depth classifications of games, and then if they want a big list of all the games available for download on the Xbox 360, they can find that too. So I'm not sure we really need it. "

An Indie game and a regular Marketplace game is a big difference that needs to be noticeably pointed out. There is a concept page for XNA games but its very much hidden.

I think both
a) this makes sense the way you proposed it
and
b) despite the fact that it would be conceptually nice to have a bright clear definition of what is a Platform, I agree that adding Steam would mean you should probably add all the other ones, and oh god that would be horrible.

If it gets necessary, though, you could always add a "Distributors" category, and people could add Xbox Live, PlayStation Network, Steam, EA.com, as necessary etc.

I've found it weird that distribution platforms are mixed with the platforms on which the games were made to run. It seems reasonable that distribution could be handled in a concept. However, if that's not going to change, then it looks like a good idea. At the very least, PS3 PSN and PSP PSN should be split.

Sounds good, but I think there needs to be clear instruction as to which 'platform' a game goes into, especially when things are released on different services in different regions (e.g. Patapon 2)

 "PlayStation Network turns into PlayStation Network (PS3) 
Add PlayStation Network (PSP)  "  
 
In terms of navigating the different platforms i would find it easier if "PlayStation Network (PS3)" remained as just PlayStation Network and then "PlayStation Network (PSP)" was renamed as "PlayStation Portable Network" 
 
or maybe I should email Sony about that?

Just going to pop my opinions in here, hopefully they help in some way, if only for discussion's sake.

Xbox Live Marketplace turns into Xbox Live Arcade. 
Add Xbox 360 Indie Games. 
Add Xbox 360 Game Room. 
Add Xbox 360 Games on Demand (covers both 360 and Xbox 1 releases)

I'd be really hesitant about adding any PC digital download services as platforms because there are a ton of them, and it'd be unfair to add Steam without then adding the eight trillion other services out there. Where does that end? Do we suddenly need "EA.com Store" as a platform? Waaaay too crazy. Plus, there aren't many meaningful differences between the different digital versions of a game. 

PlayStation Network turns into PlayStation Network (PS3) 
Add PlayStation Network (PSP) 
PS1 releases would be tagged with both of these platforms. 
PSP Minis that are playable on both platforms would also be tagged with both platforms.

Yeah, that sounds reasonable. I refused to do anything involving PSP minis and other PSP downloadable titles because I didn't want to be one to create confusion. :D
Are you guys going to have someone go through all the games and re-categorize them, or are you just going to leave it all to us? There's so much to change that I'm not sure you can rely on us to do it all. I've done a crapload of menial tasks on the site, but I don't think I'm going to be able to go through all the Xbox Live Marketplace and PSN games to make sure the platform listings are absolutely correct.

" Yeah, that sounds reasonable. I refused to do anything involving PSP minis and other PSP downloadable titles because I didn't want to be one to create confusion. :D Are you guys going to have someone go through all the games and re-categorize them, or are you just going to leave it all to us? There's so much to change that I'm not sure you can rely on us to do it all. I've done a crapload of menial tasks on the site, but I don't think I'm going to be able to go through all the Xbox Live Marketplace and PSN games to make sure the platform listings are absolutely correct. "

I don't see the point in adding Games on Demand.

" As someone with a tonne of experience doing stuff on the GB wiki, all these changes seem like they would be great, and make it easier to classify and keep track of these games. BUT it would make it much more daunting for newer users. There are already people who get slightly confused that we have PSN and Xbox Live Marketplace as separate platforms from PS3/PSP and 360. Adding more platforms to each console would cause more confusion and make things even more complicated for people new to the site. "

I am bumping this up because I feel like it is something that still needs to be discussed, and I was also curious about whether there are any plans to implement the Xbox 360/Game Room categories currently. I feel like Xbox Live Marketplace is far too broad a term!

Yeah, at this point it would be a good idea to maybe separate them, but I am not sure how you would do this, but make a button or checkbox type thing that will aggregate them back into one united platform.  
 
Or better yet, keep them aggregated and then let the user filter out / in what they want included in their results(since the people who are probably going to want to separate them anyways is probably more of a power user).
 
Does that make sense?  I don't know how to explain it well without almost drawing it out or something on a piece of paper.

Your changes look good to me.