Fez 2 cancelled because Phil Fish threw a tamper tantrum.

Probably not. The only other employee at Polytron now works at Capy and the music composer is independent.

This situation is just fucked no matter how you look at it. Everyone on all sides has behaved like an asshole.

I've been thinking about how there has been talk of making more solid efforts to get the people behind the games to be noted rather then just publisher names or the Dev teams logo. Maybe thinking that while the majority of people with online presences are able to deal with the trolls and negativity or even how if you can't deal with it you should perhaps just not look at that stuff and basically just focus on making the best work you can.

Even how maybe if you're going to be a person who likes commenting on certain things and even willing to participate in a documentary where you come off really badly in the final edit you should expect a certain amount of negativity along with the praise with this crazy social networking world we live in.

But when I see Fish's reaction all I can really think about is this video....

This shouldn't have been a lesson about whether or not to make Fez 2, but a lesson as to whether or not Phil Fish was the sort of person who should have a Twitter account.

exactly, all im saying is its easy to look at this thing and proclaim the internet is the worst, when it really kind of isnt.

not to mention Phil did bring some of this on himself with the way he provokes people.

How "anticipated" was Fez 2 really? I'm sure people where looking for a new one but were not that invested in it.

This comes to mind.

@cretaceous_bob: I'll agree with that, if he didn't constantly broadcast then he would be as controversial as he is.

@truthtellah: that i agree with, how once someone says something we disagree with, we ram it down their throat how much we disagree with them.

we are all too passionate/sensitive to where when one person like fish acts like a troll and provokes the internet for lulz,(fish is no saint, if you followed him on twitter, he definitely provoked people) it gets thrown back at him thousandfold. and thats the price you pay when your a pseudo controversial internet celebrity

@atomic_dumpling said:

@mrfluke said:

@slashdance said:

just gonna resurface this picture and make a permanent exit from this thread. as i agree with what you are alluding to.

I don't even know who that guy is, so it doesn't tell me a goddamn thing about the situation. I find this whole thing rather funny, actually. It is almost as if Fish was just waiting for an opportunity to "drop the mic" in a self-aggrandizing gesture. He probably expects people to beg for FEZ II now. Which, sadly enough, is going to happen.

which plays exactly into the picture, that picture, is of a dude called andy kaufman who was known wildly for being a troll that took it to the limits and faked out people a lot.

(conspiracy theory incoming, get the tinfoil hat ready) if you remember how phil fish turned the back half of fez into a super obscure puzzle game, wouldnt surprise me that since that picture was his display pic, that this is ultimately a big fakeout and he went and make this game quiet. so that by announcing that its canceled he has all the time to work on it without deadlines or people harassing him asking when the game is coming out.

The whole thing is childish. I listened to what Berd had to say and under all the cursing he did make a good point. Those two are prominent faces of the indie scene whether they like it or not. I also can understand Phil's comments about waiting for things to play out.

On the other hand Phil has done nothing to make people think he isn't an asshole. He's made pretty dickish unsolicited comments and when people have called him out on it he would then add gasoline to the small fire he started. Fez 2 is still going to happen. He probably just wants his ego massaged a bit by the community at large. I'm not going to be one of those people though.

You should all look at your lives and then kill yourselves. Trending worldwide and a best seller on Steam, how do you like that you dumb nerds? Choke on my dick! - Phil Fish, 2013

(I have never played Fez and never plan to.)

Fish's request that Beer kill himself came after Beer's unprovoked attacks on Fish. For people to now say, "OK, it's all equal now" is to ignore that who acted first really does matter, especially if the primary actor has a gimmick of being the type of person who attacks first. A person who will hit first unprovoked is different from someone who hits back once attacked.

Bullying Step 1: Provoke target.

Bullying Step 2: Continue provoking until a reaction is gotten.

Bullying Step 3: Call attention to the target's reaction.

1) Marcus Beer is a bully.

That's his gimmick. I had not heard of him until this incident. I watched the first 3 minutes of that invisible walls video and the other members of the panel set him up with the attitude that he was going to angrily rant and complain on schedule. That is inauthentic. People aren't on-cue rage machines, yet that is his gimmick.

Neither Fish nor Blow had done anything to him at all, yet his own feeling of being slighted and his need to fulfill his destructive gimmick lead him to viciously and heartlessly attack the character and profession of two human beings who, it needs to be said again, did nothing to him. (Bullying step 1 & 2.)

Fish counter-attacked him on Twitter in response. Beer then called attention to Fish's twitter counter-attack. (Bullying step 3)

2) Marcus Beer is a terrible journalist.

Game developers do not owe journalists any favors and journalists do not owe game developers any favors.

His explanation of the relationship between industry and industry press is horrifying and tracks perfectly with an abusive man's justification for raping a woman. "Slut, you give it up to everyone you're going to give it up to me!"

Remember that image of our boy Ryan with the fedora and all the dumb shit written on it like an OK Cupid profile? If the question is "Is a woman ever obligated to have sex with you?" then Beer's answer is clearly, "Yes."

He's disgusting.

Whelp, this is the best thing to come out of this thread. You win.

I doubt it, he had already had a following and there's also a disclaimer pretty much saying don't take him too seriously, Fish just ignored whatever "point" Marcus had and decided and retaliate. Was Marcus being his typical overblown self? Sure but if anyone expected more they're stupid (plus his stuff isn't rehearsed if i remember correctly) and at least what ever grievances he has is genuine, Fish comes off as a very false person at times.

Personally I like Marcus but i'll concede both have acted really silly.

On the subject of Fish cancelling Fez II? No ones to blame but himself. This is just me but if people call you an arsehole for long enough maybe you should change your attitude (nah, i don't mean the internet trolls), I don't know. It's his game and his fans he's disappointing (maybe his publisher), he can do what he likes.

Yeah, I don't think Beer comes out of this looking good, but Fish could have reacted better. Instead of hurling insults back he could have more rationally addressed how grotesque Beer was being in a forum more sensible than Twitter. Rather than show tact in the face of unwarranted criticism he went off the handle. That's part of what makes Fish polarizing and while he in no way deserves the amount of hate he gets, he's complicit in receiving those reactions when goes on these tirades.

I think this entire situation has been over-blown. Yeah, some stupid things were said but this didn't need to be publicly plastered on every website and forum. I don't agree with what Phil or Marcus have said but honestly, being pressed into the media lately, Phil could've and should've handled the situation a little better. Yes, some people are assholes but you know what, you aren't forced to respond. If you have to, be the bigger man and carry on respectfully.

I hope this dies down quickly and even though I haven't played Fez or really been a fan of Phil's, I hope he reconsiders, cools down a bit and comes back to continue his work.

Phil Fish is ever the master of public relations.

If he really is quitting video games, he should probably look into spending his days cultivating a zen garden or something. It'd be a lot better for his blood pressure.

@zolroyce: wouldnt surprise me if he resurfaces later, or fez 2 resurfaces later as a new IP as i agree with CliffyB that fez might still have some legal stuff still on it,

https://twitter.com/therealcliffyb/status/361213679892578305

and it was also reported that fish also borrowed a lot of money to finish fez. so there is also that possibly coming to a headway

@atomic_dumpling said:

@mrfluke said:

@slashdance said:

just gonna resurface this picture and make a permanent exit from this thread. as i agree with what you are alluding to.

I don't even know who that guy is, so it doesn't tell me a goddamn thing about the situation. I find this whole thing rather funny, actually. It is almost as if Fish was just waiting for an opportunity to "drop the mic" in a self-aggrandizing gesture. He probably expects people to beg for FEZ II now. Which, sadly enough, is going to happen.

From Andy Kaufman's Wikipedia page: "Elaborate ruses and pranks were major elements of his career".

So yeah, you still came to the right conclusion to the purpose of this little freak out without knowing about an actor who died 30 years ago.

@daroki: cause you knew him so well right? if you read more or watched the biopic, Kaufman still loved to fuck with people. fish does love to provoke people. wouldn't surprise me if fish wants to go more down that area.

"Toss pot" is the single most Dickensian insult ever. Did this Beer guy get into talking about games after a failed career as a chimney sweep?

The "Kill yourself" comment was a Futurama reference, guys. Did anyone say that? I just want to throw that out there. Bender said it in the middle of a rant about how rich he was.

So there's that.

You damn kids and your damn twitters.

Given everything Fish said in that rant, even if it were a Futurama reference, there's no reason to expect people to get that.

Why did he say that?

I realize my bias in saying this, bit I cannot find it in me to muster up any sympathy or understanding when things go bad for someone that tells someone else to kill themselves, be it Bender of Phil Fish.

Unless someone has already brought this up earlier. As long as Disasterpiece releases the "Fez II" soundtrack, I am alright with this.

Even if it is a reference, he's using it as a real insult which can been seen by how he uses it. I'm also not sure about his Andy Kaufman profile picture. Sure he could be copying Kaufman's style. But he could also look to Kaufman as, "Hey this guy is a lot like me!" way where he doesn't really get who Andy Kaufman was. OR he could be trying to act like him and fail miserably.

Well it's all over with now anyways so I guess we'll see how it goes from here.

That's an amalgamation of most his tweets not a thing he said in one go. (Unless he said that recently after he locked his twitter account as a joke?)

@jams: So really he should have a picture of Joaquin Phoenix from now on to signify his level of "not getting" weirdo fringe comedy if this doesn't pan out.

Jesus christ, the internet is stupid.

I think he's being serious, and I think a lot of people aren't as familiar with Kaufman's work as they think they are. And stop doing the "Grow up" thing. People shouldn't have to deal with the mountain of hatred, mockery and vitriol, just because THE INTERNET IS STREETS.

Also FEZ is pretty much Taxi and Gomez is Latka. Think about it.

haha yup

No, I wouldn't say there was. All the shit he takes constantly, whether he deserves it or not, boiled over and he seemed to have a breakdown. He wanted out, so he got out.

Unless this is all a masquerade.

Beers has an aggressive style, but was right on substance. Fish has chosen to take a public role in video game development, and so he has opened himself up to public scrutiny based on his work. If Beers, as a member of the media, takes a "if you're going to keep quiet and not play by the unspoken rules, then we will do what we can to freeze you out of the game until you start playing by the rules" stance, then that's great for him. He's demanding accountability from game developers who make their professional work public.

All Fish had to do was ignore it or basically give a "fine then, boycott me, I don't mind". Instead, he threw a temper tantrum. Making one successful indie game doesn't elevate you to the level of being beyond criticism, and if he can't take this, then he either doesn't belong in the industry or he belongs out of the public sphere.

It's a really obscure line of dialogue, but I don't think he said it for other people to get. I think he said it because it made him laugh.

That is an A list title my friend. This should be the thread name.

Well I support this action. I've always liked Phil and Fez was my GotY last year, it makes me sad but nowhere near as sad as I am with this industry and its consumers. I've always thought if I was a community manager for a developer I would never have the patience for it, but it would be even worse to get that much abuse directly, for making what you want to make, even!

In the end this is just telling of what toll internet abuse can take. It shouldn't be taken lightly.

Is there a place in this industry for a solo developer who just can't handle casual hate and knee-jerk snark? The answer is probably no. History is filled with emotionally fragile artists who could not deal with social negativity. Some found a way to work and some just gave up or imploded. But we now live in a time when having a social-media presence is considered vital to make a living so I'm not sure how much we can look to the past for answers.

Someone needs some fucking Xanax. You are a grown man, act like it Phil.

Oh.

I hope Phil Fish gets the help he needs and this all ends without him going on a shooting spree. Do they have metal detectors at gdc?

No, that's the ugly truth behind all of this. Beers was completely wrong on substance.

Someone choosing to make a game, promote it, and do interviews does not make them an on-call quote whore. If a woman has sex with another man she is not obligated to have sex with you. If a woman has sex with you once she is not obligated to have sex with you again. Game journalism is such a tenuous concept to begin with that Beers's portrayal of it obliterates what credibility might exist.

Fish and Blow owed Beers nothing. Nothing. Not one thing.

Beers owed Fish and Blow nothing. Nothing. Not one thing.

There is nothing about anything Beers has done that is correct or defensible. He's wrong on substance and he's a complete bully on action.

Fish, on the other hand, has a justified opinion saying that game journalists shouldn't expect indie devs to comment on rumors.

Again, I'm no Fish-head. He seems like a prickly and sensitive guy prone to lash out. It just so happens that those types, the types that wear their hearts on their sleeves, are exactly who bullies love to target.

@joeyravn: Yep famous people should never be held accountable for the things they say in a public forum because they're potentially unstable.

Justin McElroy made an interesting point along those lines, how many troubled artists who've made great things in the past would have given up if Twitter was around. Not comparing Phil to Da Vinci or someone like that by any means, but it's still interesting to think about.

@jonnyboy: Let me throw a hypothetical at you let's say Phil really liked kicking puppies in his free time? Should we just ignore it because he made a great game, are you saying that as long as the art is great why should we care what kind of person making it?

bravo. you summed up my feelings on this issue as well.

Anyone reckon the ports for the original FEZ have been cancelled?