Some of us can't afford to listen to our favorite podcast... that's kind of a big deal. "
To be fair... you can afford to listen to it, it's free, you just can't listen to all of it right away. Yeah, I guess that's just as bad for some people... but really, all this hyperbole is kinda outrageous, though I feel like things have calmed down a bit. Not sure if that's a good thing or if people just feel defeated on both sides of the argument.
I will gladly pay 50 dollars for a t-shirt and the promise that there are no bull-shit video ads. That shit boils my blood. I remember a feature 1up had, where every single video had a 30-second ad beforehand. And most of the videos weren't even a minute long! Same for IGN. Same for Joystiq. Same for Spill (which isn't video-game related, but you get the point). I can understand it for Hulu or the Daily Show, where you're getting 20-40 minutes of content, but I shouldn't have to watch 30 seconds of some bullshit ad just to watch a 5-minute video. /rant
Anyways, I'm really befuddled by the fuss about the Bombcast. Seems to me anyone that loves the bombcast so much that they demand to have it the week it comes out, and every bit of it, would be the same audience that doesn't mind giving 5 bucks a month or 50 a year.
" I'M SPOILED EVERYTHING SHOULD BE FREE AND DUMPED RIGHT INTO MY LAP "
That's not even the point people are mad about dickface "
Isn't it? People are angry because they have to start paying to get the full bombcast. "
That is why people are angry, but it's not because they are too cheap to pay for it like you seem to assume everyone who is complaining about it is. It's that they are lowering the standard to provide an artificial incentive that no one even wanted in the first place, not even eager paying subscribers. I'm paying for the yearly sub and I could act indifferent and insult everyone complaining who isn't subscribed, but I don't because I agree with their sentiments. I defended the subscription service before because I thought they were only adding features for subscribers and not taking away features from non-subscribers. Spin it any way you want, but taking away the ability to listen to a full bombcast on the same week is taking away a feature. It's the taking away of a standard feature and making it exclusive to subscribers that''s pissing people off. Subscribers aren't even getting the bombcast early, we are getting it the same time as always. Imagine if subscribers get to watch quick looks and mailbag videos on the day they are posted, but non-subscribers only get to watch them a day after they are posted. An extreme example, but the full bombcast is arguably just as integral to the GB experience as its videos "
And this whole deal comes from a misguided sense of entitlement. And it's not just being split down the middle. It's being sectioned into two parts. Important news will remain free. Silliness will wait till the next week. Each week you get an hour of each, whether you subscribe or not. "
It's easy to say "they aren't entitled to anything, we'll do whatever we have to do." and give the middle finger to a vocal majority, but the community is a large part of GB and while standing firm and saying no to every little complaint is good, completely ignoring the community's concerns can do way more damage than good. "
And that's where things get interesting. The community is always begging for more content and lapping it up as it comes, but it all costs tons of money that the crew doesn't just pull out of their asses. Support has to come from somewhere, and the bombcast (which is very costly in time, resources, and money to produce) is one of the things they decided they should charge for (and it really isn't that big of a "loss", when you listen to the plan for the revamped bombcast). GB had ads up for a week and it was pandemonium. We can't expect these guys to just churn out content with no way to pay for it. The world doesn't work like that. $5 a month is such a small amount.
Forget the haters and Metroid other M (sorry brad...) I'm going with the annual subscription I support this website and all of whiskey media they do amazing work.
Some of us can't afford to listen to our favorite podcast... that's kind of a big deal. "
To be fair... you can afford to listen to it, it's free, you just can't listen to all of it right away. Yeah, I guess that's just as bad for some people... but really, all this hyperbole is kinda outrageous, though I feel like things have calmed down a bit. Not sure if that's a good thing or if people just feel defeated on both sides of the argument. "
The podcast is such a time-sensitive thing though. Waiting a full week to listen to it... I'd rather not listen to it at all. Imagine if this happened just before E3... the forums would be divided into people that understand what the fuck an "orange jumpthuit" is and why the number "775" is so funny, and people wondering what the hell all of the inside jokes are.
Dividing the Bombcast divides the community. Plain and simple.
Yo, how many of you would pay a one time fee $250 for a life time subscription to GB? Just like Star Trek Online. lolz. Just something to think about Whiskey ;)
@Green_Incarnate: Now you're getting ridiculous. My guess? Not many. 50 is the sweet spot, 250 is getting towards "I-can-buy-a-console-with-this" proportions.
@beatlebrainiac: I'm with you in wanting to avoid all of the piss-poor revenue models that most other (game) sites use. I watched the same damn Skittles commercial going through the PAX coverage on gametrailers 10-20 times even though I last saw that same commercial on gametrailers over a month ago... I... I bring myself to use that site ever again due to my newfound fear that I might see that skittle tree commercial one more time.
To be honest, I half expected them to announce that they were going to split the bombcast up into 2 shows a week each running 1/2 the length of the current podcast (regardless of who is/isn't a paying member). That way they could then fill in the week with their other site's podcasts so each day would have a new WM podcast. I can't imagine anyone getting upset at that proposition even though the net result would be the same as the current situation except the paying members would also have to wait for the staggered release. That being said, I still fail to understand what the big deal is about a staggered release of a few days. I mean, we need people to be ready to get upset when an actual injustice happens so they can still take us seriously.
I guess the people complaining about the bombcast thing didn't really listen when they were talking about how much of a bandwidth cost it is and the issues it present when it comes to AD revenue?
I feel like the Whiskey guys really couldn't scrape together enough new features to lock behind a 'pay wall' so the Bombcast got thrown up on the chopping block.
I want to help them but as an European, I don't want to pay 50 dollars (40 euros) and have yet to pay the t-shirt shippings
And for fuck sake, with 40 euros I can buy at least 3 great games... I will try a month and then I'm going to see what I think about it. Sorry Giantbomb, I love you a lot but don't make money (sub-18) and the money I have I normally save it.
I'm just jumping in here to say that, yeah, I'm going for the yearly subscription. I want to support the guys, but to be honest with you, this feels like a real dick move on their part.
Whatever the reasoning is, I don't care. Saying "if we get X amount of subscribers by Y date" is basically akin to holding a fucking gun to the community's head. A community, mind you, that is the most rabid I have ever seen of anything outside of an ICP concert. Not comparing you guys to Juggalos except to say you guys -really- love your Giant Bomb. That said, I can see why they did it, but that doesn't justify them phrasing it the way they did. Splitting the Bombcast up is a ballsy move, and I think if they don't get the 5K that they demand, then it's going to hurt a lot of people who felt they were a part of Giant Bomb, not just the Giant Bomb Fan Site.
Also, whoever posted the Tycho Brahe bit on XBL was spot-on. That's really what it comes down to. Whether they feel this way or not, the simple truth of the matter is that they are in effect holding the most beloved part of Giant Bomb hostage to get what they want. It's a dirty tactic, and it was one I thought the GB crew were above. Guess I was wrong about that.
And like I said at the start, I'll be getting my yearly subscription tomorrow morning, so long as the PayPal option is go. At least I'll only have to get fucked in the ass once a year.
this is not about value added or value being taken off, its about these guys being independent. SIMPLE AS THAT. 50 bucks a year is 5 hours of work a year on minimum wage its not too much.
to be frank they should have started charging way earlier. These guys are not made out of money, and being independent like that means that the best model for them is go by subscription.
if you can support these guys, if you can't don't be a bttch and douchebag about it. realize the context here, they are an independent website trying to take the next step, if you want to support you can support them now with your wallet. If not life will be normal, the bombcast will be fine, and if its not these guys have enough experience to know if they have done something wrong.
Keep all the crap promised but instead of locking half the bombcast away, tape the fucking podcast and throw it up on the web unedited ( we like that shit). Boom done. Everyone is happy.
( and yes either way i'm shooting you money; I just want the community to be satisfied)
at the end of the day, this is a service, and if making these changes to the bombcast is what they deem to be what they need to stay competitive, then by all means fine. But as someone who uses this service, im out.
@KingWilly: Most beloved = most bandwidth used. I remember Adam Carolla having to deal with bandwidth issues for his podcast too. How did he fix it? Erasing week-old podcasts from the internet. Done, nada, didn't get 'em when they were available? Good luck finding 'em now, buddy. I haven't listened in a long time, but I know he now does something similar to what GB is doing - a podcast for everyone, and then a special for subscribers. Except with GB, even if you're not a subscriber, you're getting that extra, you just have to wait. NOTHING IS GETTING REMOVED. NO CONTENT IS BEING KEPT AWAY FROM YOU. It's time-locked, and is that really a big deal? It's an hour, a goddamn hour of content. Find something else to do for a week, or hey! Give a little something back, you goddamn content-crack-whore.
I'm really surprised some people think of this as greedy. I really doubt Whiskey Media are doing this to piss off the community. I'm betting they spent alot of time going back and forth about the most gentle way to go about this. Shit, they released a 45-minute discussion about it, who else is gonna do that? I love this site, and I love that it's bullshit-free. There aren't video ads. There aren't audio ads. You don't have to listen to a 30-second ad for the newest Kia every 15 minutes while you listen to the Bombcast, like you do with so much other shit. If you support the site, giving 50 bucks upfront should really be a no-brainer. They're throwing so many goodies at you, it's insane to think this one feature has you butt-hurt. Do you really feel like you're getting fucked in the ass if they're throwing in a t-shirt? That shit's the bomb, yo.
I think the fact of the matter is, they need this to keep the site running without outside influences. That shit's not as easy as you might think. Maybe in your world of sunshine and perfectness, websites with large amounts of traffic can support bandwidth with a wink and a wish, but in the real life, you have to pay money for that, and that money has to come from somewhere. So what do you recommend besides from this?
Donations? Not gonna happen. People want something out of it, they always do. And the people that do donate, will do it once, probably 10 bucks, and never again. That's not gonna cover shit. On-screen ads? Adblock. Don't act like you don't use it. Video ads? Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck no, that shit has pretty much ruined almost every other site out there. I can't count the number of times I've skipped out on legitimate content because I can't be fucked to watch another Burger King ad.
In conclusion, wait a week, donate, or leave. I'm guessing every motherfucker here bitching about how they're not going to spend money on this will just get the shit off piratebay, and STILL bitch about how they're getting fucked over. Welcome to the internet, gents. Welcome to the goddamn internet.
" it's been confirmed, folks. if whiskey media gets 5000 subscribers by 10am pst on friday the 10th then the bombcast will stay as it is. i'm subscribing for the year anyways because i love everything that whiskey media is doing and has done for quite the long while. i know alot of people are against the subscription fee but this was inevitable. i look at it this way. i've been here since jeff and ryan were doing arrow pointing down before giant bomb started. i support what giant bomb does and also what comic vine, tested, anime vice, and screened do for the internet. to me, i couldn't ask for a better crew to get my tech, entertainment, all around geeky news from. to subscribe to whiskey media means you are supporting honest and good people who do their jobs well and are doing things no one else is doing. whiskey media deserves our support. they've given us all this content and let us be part of the crew as well with the way they have built their sites. it's only 5 bucks a month and 50 bucks for a whole year. people 3 times more a month for world of warcraft and other mmo's yet when it's just 5 bucks a month it's the end of the world. it's not, folks. it's just business but i ask you to please support giant bomb and all the other whiskey media folk who work hard day in and out to bring awesome content to us all. like i said, only 5000 by this friday and the bombcast stays untouched. do the right thing. be more than a duder. be a super gangsta and subscribe. not just for the bombcast, but for awesomeness. "
It's not about how much it costs, it's about the sleazy way they are going about it. They are basically holding the Bombcast hostage and saying if they don't get our money by a set date, they are going to gut the podcast.
" I guess the people complaining about the bombcast thing didn't really listen when they were talking about how much of a bandwidth cost it is and the issues it present when it comes to AD revenue? "
Well, if it costs so much, then what the heel sense does it make to still release it for free then? its not saving them any money, or manpower, nor are they getting money specifically for it. And I for one, would be fine hearing how the Bombcast is sponsored by Jolt Cola, or whatever. I am confused then, as to the reasoning.
@beatlebrainiac: I don't think you've read... anything in this thread. It's not the "goodies" (most of which I and probably many others won't even use), the problem is not that they're splitting up the podcast, it's the fact that they've turned around and said "if X number of people subscribe by Y date, we WON'T gut the podcast!"
No matter how you slice it, that's a sleazy way to go about it.
EDIT to add: Were the personal attacks necessary? Really? A "goddamn content-crackwhore"? Seriously dude, grow up.
I think people need to remember that we aren't entitled to this site being free. We have had it free for this long and now the people hard at work on it would like to eat something. It isn't that nothing is being added, it is the fact that something free isn't disappearing. Sure, they could have found another way to stay in BUSINESS, but, as Jeff said, I prefer US, the consumers, be the ones paying them. Random suits putting up ads I don't care about is not something I want. I don't really care what is given out how because I was intending to pay regardless because I love these guys and their work and have been waiting for a chance to show my appreciation. It isn't like you are loosing the bombcast guys, you just don't get it right away! And as for the elitism... The people NOT subscribing are being more elitist than those subscribing!
@Mrnitropb: you WANT corporate sponsorship? It's a slippery slope. Maybe you forgot how Giantbomb started.
@KingWilly: Oh I've read plenty in this thread. And it all comes down to the same thing: people don't want to spend money on things they care about. The 5k thing doesn't change that, it just gives people a central point to channel their bitching towards.
I'll probably subscribe, but more as a 'thank you' for providing me with hours of entertainment in the past than paying for future content.
That said, this is kind of a clusterfuck. I don't buy the 'we didn't take anything away' argument just because the bombcast will still be available a week later. It still feels like you're taking something away. And then this 'if we hit x number of subscribers' thing is just kinda bullshit and feels like a dick move.
I love Giant Bomb and will gladly pay for it. It's just the way this is handled that rubs me the wrong way.
@beatlebrainiac: No see, that is EXACTLY it. It's splitting the community because, hey, guess what? Not everyone is going to be able to afford $5 a month. I'm going to be subscribing because I like Giant Bomb, not because of the features they are providing.
Really, you need to take a step back from your fanaticism over Giant Bomb and really think of what they are doing to satisfy you as a *customer*. If you feel that 720p and a mobile site is enough, then good for you.
Many others do not feel that way, and it is their right.
Why are people talking like everything is gonna change and they're never gonna get to hear the full Bombcast? You will hear it all, just a week later. Hell, after a couple of weeks you won't even notice it anymore because you'll still be getting 2 podcasts a week. I personally would prefer 2 podcasts a week, spread the goodness out some.
If you don't wanna pay, don't pay. Changes are gonna be minimal. I personally will be subscribing as soon as I get paid, not just for the additional content, but because I watch the videos on this site more than I watch actual TV, and $5 (or £3.25) seems like a pittence to pay for that. Shit, a god damn extra value meal at McDonalds costs more than that
" @Mrnitropb: you WANT corporate sponsorship? It's a slippery slope. Maybe you forgot how Giantbomb started.
....checks sign-up date, post count, wiki points, et al. ....Compares to beatlebrainiac.......
Yeah, I think I have a better grasp of it than you. And I know how I would rather things go.
But my point was, what was the actual valid reason for putting the podcast 50% behind a paywall for a week? does that actually save them any money? Does it take up less bandwidth when we all download it , for free, a week later? I think it was a BS justification, unless I am really mistaken.
" @Mrnitropb: you WANT corporate sponsorship? It's a slippery slope. Maybe you forgot how Giantbomb started.
....checks sign-up date, post count, wiki points, et al. ....Compares to beatlebrainiac....... Yeah, I think I have a better grasp of it than you. And I know how I would rather things go. But my point was, what was the actual valid reason for putting the podcast 50% behind a paywall for a week? does that actually save them any money? Does it take up less bandwidth when we all download it , for free, a week later? I think it was a BS justification, unless I am really mistaken. "
Here's a quick fix for the bandwidth issue...record on a macbook with 20 dollars mics, and upload all podcasts to megaupload. If they're really that hurting for money, there are plenty of alternatives.
I think that before you post anything about any opinions on this topic, you NEED to listen to the bombcast on the membership program that they just released. Trying to argue about this before you know all the facts is asinine.
They outline clearly how they're spending 14 some-odd hours of man time doing the bombcast. And think about it, they use EVERY staff member of Giantbomb (I guess excluding Drew) to do a bombcast. I would pay $5 alone to support that. But thats not even the deal. The added bombcast is an ADDITION to an already fantastic package they're rolling out with the membership. And people on here are acting like they'll never going to get to listen to it, when IT WILL STILL BE FREE REGARDLESS.
@KingWilly: As I've said before, I find it absurd that the same people that can't stand only having an hour of the Bombcast and waiting a week for the rest aren't willing to spend 5 bucks a month on the site. If you can't afford five bucks a month, then just wait, goddamn. Unless you're living in a box (how the fuck are you on the internet?), surely you can scrap up five bucks a month.
And for those that don't think it's worth it? Then don't pay, it's that simple. But don't act like you've been stabbed in the back when a site you've contributed nothing to asks for a little pocket change to keep thriving.
ps. the only reason you think there's "many others" that don't think it's enough is because the critics and naysayers are always the most vocal of the crowd.
" @Mrnitropb: you WANT corporate sponsorship? It's a slippery slope. Maybe you forgot how Giantbomb started.
....checks sign-up date, post count, wiki points, et al. ....Compares to beatlebrainiac....... Yeah, I think I have a better grasp of it than you. And I know how I would rather things go. But my point was, what was the actual valid reason for putting the podcast 50% behind a paywall for a week? does that actually save them any money? Does it take up less bandwidth when we all download it , for free, a week later? I think it was a BS justification, unless I am really mistaken. "
Here's a quick fix for the bandwidth issue...record on a macbook with 20 dollars mics, and upload all podcasts to megaupload. If they're really that hurting for money, there are plenty of alternatives. "
That's a ridiculous proposition for a site that is trying to provide a professional service and an excellent venue. They're not hurting for cash, they're trying to keep their heads enough above the water that they are free to provide us with the excellent bombcasts that we are used to.
@Mrnitropb: Because I have to have been a member since it started to follow the site, right? :D Just because I don't approach certain aspects of the site the same way you do, doesn't mean I'm any less of a fan. But keep stroking that e-peen man. It will mean something to you someday.
I cannot really understand why people are quite so outraged about this.
For one thing the subscription gets you perks on all Whiskey Sites. It's not like this is a GB subscription, and more premium content for both GB and all the other Whiskey sites could be added later. For less than one xbox 360/ps3 game a year, I don't think that is such a bad deal.
We have all been using GB and the other Whiskey sites virtually ad-free since the beginning now. No video ads, pop-ups, podcast break ads, banner ads, etc like most other gaming sites. I love that the site doesn't sign deals with companies to cover their games as well. Whiskey Media is a business, they need to make money somehow to stay in business. As much as Jeff loves video games and writing about them, he (and everyone else) cannot keep writing about them if Whiskey isn't making any money to pay him and keep the offices/equipment afloat. I would infinitely rather pay money for a subscription to all Whiskey Sites than see them run over by pop ups, banner ads, sponsored stories, video ads, and so on.
Virtually no content is being removed from the site, the bombcast is just being delayed, and if enough people sign up that will not even happen. I feel completely fine paying money to keep the site as close as it is to now into the future.
If charging for the bombcast is the last and only solution to keep this site alive, then somebody fucked up at some point and the community shouldn't be punished for it
@beatlebrainiac: Again, I'm going to explain this carefully because I think we're both on the same side of this issue, in a way.
Where I differ from you is when about a month ago when they first announced the subscription service, they said the number one thing they did NOT want to do, was split the community between the subs and the free users. They were pretty good about following this up until this announcement. That was where I got a little "eeehh". The reason I'm disappointed in the Whiskey crew is that they are also putting half of the bombcast behind a paywall. This will also split the community because there WILL be those of us who will get all the in jokes and all of the funny stuff while the free users (mooches, as I'm sure you'd love to say), are left scratching their heads. As a result, they will probably wind up ostracized by the subscribers due to them always being "behind" those of us who DO pay.
That's about it, honestly. I don't want to see this place turn into every other hell hole on the 'net that uplifts only segments of their fan base.
And again, like I said, I was down for a yearly subscription since the whole thing was announced. It's only now that they've announced the whole "X by Y" thing that I feel like they're holding a gun to the community's head.
Hopefully you understand my point a little better now. To clarify, Giant Bomb is the only site I'd EVER consider paying for. I love the personalities and the professional writing, commentary, and of course, the Bombcast. I feel like this place is definitely worth the subscription price, and I just wish they didn't pull this paywall BS with the Bombcast.
I was all for the subscription, I want to help these guys out as much as possible, but splitting the podcast just seems like the biggest mistep in the history of the site. That thing is for most users the back bone of the site.
Man, I didn't realise that the Bombcast was subscription only. So what's happening to those who don't have the liquidity for yet another monthly fee? FS.
It's real easy. If you want to pay, you pay. If you don't want to, you don't pay. I have no problem with this, and for the record I am not going to pay.
@KingWilly: I can get that to a certain extent, I just don't see that happening. My whole point is that the people that care about the inside jokes, the <>, etc, will gladly pay for it. I don't think that the inside jokes are so alienating that it's gonna push new users away. I mean, I've had trouble grasping inside jokes, but it's never stopped my enjoyment of reading the boards/comments.
I think it's just getting blown out of proportion, and I think the critics should at least wait for it to be implemented before they talk about how it ruins the fundamentals for the site. ie this doesn't feel like Digg v4 to me.
@SirSuperior: This is the kinda attitude I like. Good on ya for voting with your wallet, sir.
Create a disastrous problem, then offer a handy solution later. I'm REALLY worried about WM though. Does this mean that they are desperately needing money now?
It's just guys shooting the shit in a room. It might be slightly funnier than the 50 billion other video game podcasts out there, but there are still 50 billion other (free) podcasts out there.
Seriously, if GB wants to become a charity then just have a donate button or something.
Log in to comment